Does Jesus save those who received grace and are without obedience to the faith?

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Soyeong, your posts are large but you fail to obey the commandment that Jesus gave us.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are
the Lord’s commandment
. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

How can anyone mention walking in the Holy Spirit and disobey the commandment Jesus gave?
Which commandment do you think that I am failing to obey?

Jesus walked in the Holy Spirit and what that looked like was a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law. Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Do you agree or disagree that man shall live by every word that comes from the mouth of God?
 
Which commandment do you think that I am failing to obey?
This one:

Deuteronomy 16:16 Three times a year all your males must appear before the Lord your God in the place he chooses for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks, and the Feast of Shelters; and they must not appear before him empty-handed.

Since there is neither temple nor tabernacle, you cannot appear there before God on these occasions. You filthy sinner you!
 
The theif on the cross was saved because of the act of his confession.
The thief on the cross was saved because of his belief and faith. His confession was a reflection of the repentance in his heart.
The thief on the cross would not have been saved without his act of confession.
Consider these verses in the context of the passages where they are found:

Luke 7:

50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:

42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Acts 2:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In each case, belief/faith is the core component - with one other additional 'aspect' of the 'action' - the sincerity and willingness to admit/confess that belief/faith to God.

In that exactingly-particular sense, you are correct. However, do not let yourself get caught up in the belief that salvation is based on a hard-and-strict requirement with regard to an/the outward visible form of what you are calling 'act of confession'. It is not a matter of a "mechanical" on-the-surface 'method' - it is a matter of the contriteness of the heart. Because, God looks at the heart.

The repentance of the heart itself is a form of admission/confession to God.

The 'sincerity and willingness' in his heart, along with his belief/faith, is what got the thief saved. The with-his-lips confession was an outward show of that 'sincerity and willingness' in his heart. If he had not been able to speak it, God would still have saved him. Why? Because, in essence, he "spoke it" to God in his heart before he spoke it with his lips.

The form of calling upon the name of the Lord in the above verses is not identically the same in every case. But, the above-mentioned 'aspect' is present in each-and-every case.

As a matter of instruction, we quote from these verses:

Romans 10:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Keep in mind that this is instructional. Also, it must agree with all of scripture.

Does the explicitness of verse 10 exist in every other relevant place in scripture?

Is verse 11 telling us that if any truly believe they will most assuredly confess? Are they saved before they make that confession?

Is verse 13 an "exact match" description for what is said in verse 9? Is the same true for every other relevant place in scripture?

What does it mean to 'call upon the name of the Lord'? Make sure your answer fits every place in scripture where this kind of statement is made.

What about 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ'? Make sure your answer fits every place in scripture where this kind of statement is made.

Make sure your answer is the same for every place with regard to both questions.

Can this be done without speaking? Can a man who cannot speak be saved? Can he 'call upon the name of the Lord' or 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ' without speaking it?

Yes, he can - in his heart/mind.

Nonetheless, as a matter of instruction, we say 'confess with thy mouth' - knowing that, by the time they speak it, if the proper things are "settled" in their heart - they will be saved according to scripture. And, we know that "mouth confession" is instrumental in helping to make sure that the proper things are actually "settled" in their heart in a way that is acceptable to God. (i.e. - it is real - "they really mean it" - they are sincere in their 'admission'/'confession' to God)

The only thing I am really trying to get across here is that the actual "speaking words from/with the lips" itself does not save you - it is your belief, faith, and repentance - "the things of the heart" - that saves you. (Or, gets you saved - when God recognizes it in your heart - including, your willingness to admit/confess it to Him.)
 
Which commandment do you think that I am failing to obey?

Jesus walked in the Holy Spirit and what that looked like was a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law. Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Do you agree or disagree that man shall live by every word that comes from the mouth of God?

I am Sola Scripture.

Do you hold to the gifts, fruit, and ministries of the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are
the Lord’s commandment
. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

In other words do you walk in the power of the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

Soyeong, do you understand the N.T?
 
Consider these verses in the context of the passages where they are found:

Luke 7:

50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:

42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Acts 2:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In each case, belief/faith is the core component - with one other additional 'aspect' of the 'action' - the sincerity and willingness to admit/confess that belief/faith to God.

In that exactingly-particular sense, you are correct. However, do not let yourself get caught up in the belief that salvation is based on a hard-and-strict requirement with regard to an/the outward visible form of what you are calling 'act of confession'. It is not a matter of a "mechanical" on-the-surface 'method' - it is a matter of the contriteness of the heart. Because, God looks at the heart.

The repentance of the heart itself is a form of admission/confession to God.

The 'sincerity and willingness' in his heart, along with his belief/faith, is what got the thief saved. The with-his-lips confession was an outward show of that 'sincerity and willingness' in his heart. If he had not been able to speak it, God would still have saved him. Why? Because, in essence, he "spoke it" to God in his heart before he spoke it with his lips.

The form of calling upon the name of the Lord in the above verses is not identically the same in every case. But, the above-mentioned 'aspect' is present in each-and-every case.

As a matter of instruction, we quote from these verses:

Romans 10:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Keep in mind that this is instructional. Also, it must agree with all of scripture.

Does the explicitness of verse 10 exist in every other relevant place in scripture?

Is verse 11 telling us that if any truly believe they will most assuredly confess? Are they saved before they make that confession?

Is verse 13 an "exact match" description for what is said in verse 9? Is the same true for every other relevant place in scripture?

What does it mean to 'call upon the name of the Lord'? Make sure your answer fits every place in scripture where this kind of statement is made.

What about 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ'? Make sure your answer fits every place in scripture where this kind of statement is made.

Make sure your answer is the same for every place with regard to both questions.

Can this be done without speaking? Can a man who cannot speak be saved? Can he 'call upon the name of the Lord' or 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ' without speaking it?

Yes, he can - in his heart/mind.

Nonetheless, as a matter of instruction, we say 'confess with thy mouth' - knowing that, by the time they speak it, if the proper things are "settled" in their heart - they will be saved according to scripture. And, we know that "mouth confession" is instrumental in helping to make sure that the proper things are actually "settled" in their heart in a way that is acceptable to God. (i.e. - it is real - "they really mean it" - they are sincere in their 'admission'/'confession' to God)

The only thing I am really trying to get across here is that the actual "speaking words from/with the lips" itself does not save you - it is your belief, faith, and repentance - "the things of the heart" - that saves you. (Or, gets you saved - when God recognizes it in your heart - including, your willingness to admit/confess it to Him.)

The thief on the cross was saved because Jesus said so.
 
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I believe we need to establish what grace is to establish what we are talking about.

Grace can be seen as a extention of time untill a payment is rendered. Which is given to everyone of mankind.
Jesus accomplished this on the cross Making peace between God and man making a way for salvation.
"For the wages of sin is death. ..all have sinned and come short, for while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Grace can seen as unmerited favor towards a person or persons whom God chooses to give to.
Berean Literal Bible
For He says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I may show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I may have compassion."

I believe we are living in the time of grace in which God's calling to all hear his voice will respond.
How we respond will be of our chosing. Which road we follow, which gate we enter.
 
The thief on the cross was saved because Jesus said so.
Someone can still have faith while being physically prevented from embodying it, but if someone has the freedom to be the embodiment of their faith and the choose not to, then they do not have faith.
 
Grace can be seen as a extention of time untill a payment is rendered. Which is given to everyone of mankind.
Can you quote where the Bible speaks about grace in that sense? I can quote where God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law (Psalms 119:29).

It is not a good policy to argue by link, and I’ve been a member of a forum that bans that, but it is for your own good to be able to explain someone else’s position in your own words, so please do that.
 
My idea is that if one truly has faith it will transform them, if the Holy Spirit resides in one, he isnt just going to lay there dormant.

Now to what extent that is, we dont always know. Im of the opinion that some Christians will be more subtle in their lifestyle, and some more extreme. Like I will probably never be a street preacher, but I will certainly witness when I see a chance to.

Also some people live a very Christian life except for a few strongholds, these things can hold them back slightly but if we are all honest we probably have one or two things we dont love that we do. It might be cigarette addiction, or something like speaking in a immodest way. We are flawed people.

And some people are more worldly than Christ like, but they have changed and are changing slowly.

My point is it is hard to gage the level of obedience a Christian has, and if we were to say that they HAVE to be obedient to be saved, it becomes works based salvation.

Also some interpret obedience to the Gosple as just believing in the Son of God. The rest is Law not Gospel.

They also believe that there is a difference between discipleship and salvation. You can be worldy and be a genuinely believing Christian.

These people would also argue that being a worldy Christian is advised against, that you will loose much reward in heaven and that it will make your life on earth miserable.

I prefer a proper Law/Gospel distinction.

I would say that if someone continuously sins in a sexual way, which hurts others very badly it can cause me at times to question their faith in Christ. Especially when pastors abuse children or women. Same for those who exploit people for money. But I pray for them and hope that they are a genuine believer so the Holy Spirit can sanctify them.

These are just some of my ideas.
 
My idea is that if one truly has faith it will transform them, if the Holy Spirit resides in one, he isnt just going to lay there dormant.

Now to what extent that is, we dont always know. Im of the opinion that some Christians will be more subtle in their lifestyle, and some more extreme. Like I will probably never be a street preacher, but I will certainly witness when I see a chance to.

Also some people live a very Christian life except for a few strongholds, these things can hold them back slightly but if we are all honest we probably have one or two things we dont love that we do. It might be cigarette addiction, or something like speaking in a immodest way. We are flawed people.

And some people are more worldly than Christ like, but they have changed and are changing slowly.

My point is it is hard to gage the level of obedience a Christian has, and if we were to say that they HAVE to be obedient to be saved, it becomes works based salvation.

Also some interpret obedience to the Gosple as just believing in the Son of God. The rest is Law not Gospel.

They also believe that there is a difference between discipleship and salvation. You can be worldy and be a genuinely believing Christian.

These people would also argue that being a worldy Christian is advised against, that you will loose much reward in heaven and that it will make your life on earth miserable.

I prefer a proper Law/Gospel distinction.

I would say that if someone continuously sins in a sexual way, which hurts others very badly it can cause me at times to question their faith in Christ. Especially when pastors abuse children or women. Same for those who exploit people for money. But I pray for them and hope that they are a genuine believer so the Holy Spirit can sanctify them.

These are just some of my ideas.
The issue is that the Bible can speak against being required to do works for an incorrect reason without speaking against being required to be a doer of them for correct reasons. Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while our lives continued to be directed at being doers of sin so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being a doer of God’s law in accordance with believing the Gospel. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to God’s law has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result (works salvation), but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is the aspect of His gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present.
 
Consider these verses in the context of the passages where they are found:

Luke 7:

50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:

42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Acts 2:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In each case, belief/faith is the core component - with one other additional 'aspect' of the 'action' - the sincerity and willingness to admit/confess that belief/faith to God.

In that exactingly-particular sense, you are correct. However, do not let yourself get caught up in the belief that salvation is based on a hard-and-strict requirement with regard to an/the outward visible form of what you are calling 'act of confession'. It is not a matter of a "mechanical" on-the-surface 'method' - it is a matter of the contriteness of the heart. Because, God looks at the heart.

The repentance of the heart itself is a form of admission/confession to God.

The 'sincerity and willingness' in his heart, along with his belief/faith, is what got the thief saved. The with-his-lips confession was an outward show of that 'sincerity and willingness' in his heart. If he had not been able to speak it, God would still have saved him. Why? Because, in essence, he "spoke it" to God in his heart before he spoke it with his lips.

The form of calling upon the name of the Lord in the above verses is not identically the same in every case. But, the above-mentioned 'aspect' is present in each-and-every case.

As a matter of instruction, we quote from these verses:

Romans 10:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Keep in mind that this is instructional. Also, it must agree with all of scripture.

Does the explicitness of verse 10 exist in every other relevant place in scripture?

Is verse 11 telling us that if any truly believe they will most assuredly confess? Are they saved before they make that confession?

Is verse 13 an "exact match" description for what is said in verse 9? Is the same true for every other relevant place in scripture?

What does it mean to 'call upon the name of the Lord'? Make sure your answer fits every place in scripture where this kind of statement is made.

What about 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ'? Make sure your answer fits every place in scripture where this kind of statement is made.

Make sure your answer is the same for every place with regard to both questions.

Can this be done without speaking? Can a man who cannot speak be saved? Can he 'call upon the name of the Lord' or 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ' without speaking it?

Yes, he can - in his heart/mind.

Nonetheless, as a matter of instruction, we say 'confess with thy mouth' - knowing that, by the time they speak it, if the proper things are "settled" in their heart - they will be saved according to scripture. And, we know that "mouth confession" is instrumental in helping to make sure that the proper things are actually "settled" in their heart in a way that is acceptable to God. (i.e. - it is real - "they really mean it" - they are sincere in their 'admission'/'confession' to God)

The only thing I am really trying to get across here is that the actual "speaking words from/with the lips" itself does not save you - it is your belief, faith, and repentance - "the things of the heart" - that saves you. (Or, gets you saved - when God recognizes it in your heart - including, your willingness to admit/confess it to Him.)
Everyone who has faith confesses their sins.
 
The act of confession he chose to perform is obedience.

Yeah, sadly many claiming to be Christians say the right stuff, but their heart is not with the Lord.... if it was they would not be walking after the flesh

Matthew 15:8
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.



the New Covenant still involves following the Law of Moses
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

That's what the confused one continue to claim not understanding that the New Covenant is under the L:aw of Christ... moses is out! Those not rightly understanding the Word of Truth will remain confused.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

The confused one won't allow what God's Word actually says to get in the way of what they believe rolleyes3.gif


His acting on [his] faith was a decision and not a work.

Making a decision and allowing it to govern how one acts is a good work the Holy Spirit empowers those who are real Christians to accomplish in their lives. We can do all things thru Christ who strengthen us (Philippians 4:13)

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Those following reformed theology are denying the fact they the Lord has ORDAINED that His people walk in good works... which is why they continue walking after the flesh having been deceived by false doctrine to not accept the whole counsel of God and continue being led by devils to be cherry pickers.

They don't know that the good works are the works of the Holy Spirit being manifest thru true believers as they continue to false claim those being led by the Spirit are trying to earn their salvation... these poor folks are deceived in to walking after the flesh not the Holy Spirit


Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses

That's false doctrine taught by the devils of reformed theology.

It's doctrines of demons and they cannot show where Jesus told anyone to go sacrifice an animal to cover their sins, or that he taught other elements of the law of Moses.

Sadly these folks claim Jesus is a liar and reject what the Lord says in Luke 16:16

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


The Lord STOPPED teaching the OT law starting with the ministry of John the Baptist going forward including Jesus' own ministry

Now the followers of so called reformed theology reject anything in God's Word that does not fit their fake gospel and when the future gets here they will reap the reward for the error of their ways and it's going to be very bad for all eternity if they don't repent of their false doctrine and start walking in what God's Word teaches.




This verse shows us that even if a child of God commits a sin so bad that God immediately kills them ('sin unto death') - they are still a servant of God. Thus, they are still a child of God.

I see so Jesus is a minister of sin and rewards those that trample on the Blood of Christ as though it were an unholy thing... with taking them to Heaven? That's doctrines of demons and is not biblical unless one is a cherry picker and a scripture twister.

Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

If one sows to the flesh (sin), they reap corruption.... not salvation

The greasy grace teachers are hawking a license to sin and teaching lawlessness to God's people causing many to stumble.

Their end will be eternal damnation unless they repent of their false doctrine which is unlikely..


The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7),

Except for the fact that it could not bring forth LIFE (Galatians 3:21, Hebrews 7:19)

The best it could do is temporarily cover peoples sins and could not cause anyone to be born again

This is why Jesus took the old covenant away and establish the New Covenant agree.gif

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


If you agree that we should be in God’s image, then you should be arguing in favor of following God’s instructions for how to do than rather than against following them.

I follow Jesus Christ.... not Moses.

Those that follow Moses have not savior and are guilty if idolatry

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.


Apparently some folk think salvation is found thru Moses and not thru Jesus Christ. clueless-doh.gif
 
Can you quote where the Bible speaks about grace in that sense? I can quote where God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law (Psalms 119:29).


It is not a good policy to argue by link, and I’ve been a member of a forum that bans that, but it is for your own good to be able to explain someone else’s position in your own words, so please do that.

I think the best thing for you to do is look up the definition of grace then take it from there.
Grace has several meanings which i pointed to you can determine what grace is being spoken of by its contexts.
 
look up the definition of grace

Here ya go....

Titus 2:11-15
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
 
I think the best thing for you to do is look up the definition of grace then take it from there.
Grace has several meanings which i pointed to you can determine what grace is being spoken of by its contexts.
Definitions should be based on how the words are used. You are welcome to use a definition of “grace” that is not based on how it is used by the Bible if you want, but then you shouldn’t try to work it into your theology.
 
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
I did not claim either that we need to obey the Law of Moses or works of the law in order to become justified, so you are misapplying that verse. It is important to recognize that the Bible can speak against obeying God for an incorrect reason without speaking against obeying God, so the fact that we can't earn our justification even as the result of having perfect obedience to God does not mean that we are not obligated to obey God.

God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to the Law of Moses all throughout the Bible, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against obeying God and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against. Galatians should not be interpreted as speaking against being followers of Christ.

That's what the confused one continue to claim not understanding that the New Covenant is under the L:aw of Christ... moses is out! Those not rightly understanding the Word of Truth will remain confused.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)


Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could be free to continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10). There is no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to anything that Christ taught.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God's character traits eternal, so the instructions that God has given for how to be a doer of them are therefore also eternal. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:160), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160). If the way to be a doer of God's righteousness could change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, so Hebrews 7:12 is not speaking about a change of the law in regard to its content, such as with it becoming righteous to commit adultery or sinful to do charity, but rather the context is speaking about a change of the priesthood, which would also require a change of the law in regard to its administration. A priesthood led by God's Word made flesh does not involve following something that is other than or contrary to God's Word.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)
God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of the Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:142), so James 1:25 speaking about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it is not saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms.

The confused one won't allow what God's Word actually says to get in the way of what they believe View attachment 280191
The confused one thinks that it makes perfect sense to interpret God's Word as speaking against obeying God's Word.

That's false doctrine taught by the devils of reformed theology.

It's doctrines of demons and they cannot show where Jesus told anyone to go sacrifice an animal to cover their sins, or that he taught other elements of the law of Moses.
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. The Devil does not have the role of leading us to repent and to follow Christ's example of obedience to what God has commanded, so you are very confused.

Sadly these folks claim Jesus is a liar and reject what the Lord says in Luke 16:16

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


The Lord STOPPED teaching the OT law starting with the ministry of John the Baptist going forward including Jesus' own ministry
Neither Jesus nor John came with the message to stop repenting because the Mosaic Law has ended now that they have come, but just the opposite. Jesus said that sin John the Gospel of the Kingdom has been preached, which calls for our obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Luke 16:17, Jesus said that it was be easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least part to disappear from the Mosaic Law, so he was not speaking about something that he thought had already stopped. In addition, in Luke 16:18, Jesus continue to teach obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Now the followers of so called reformed theology reject anything in God's Word that does not fit their fake gospel and when the future gets here they will reap the reward for the error of their ways and it's going to be very bad for all eternity if they don't repent of their false doctrine and start walking in what God's Word teaches.
The Mosaic Law is God's Word (Deuteronomy 5:31-33), so I've been speaking in favor of walking in what God's Word teaches while you've been speaking against dong that.


Except for the fact that it could not bring forth LIFE (Galatians 3:21, Hebrews 7:19)

The best it could do is temporarily cover peoples sins and could not cause anyone to be born again

This is why Jesus took the old covenant away and establish the New Covenant View attachment 280192

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

I follow Jesus Christ.... not Moses.
The same God who gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to turn us from our wickedness in disobedience to it, so there is no disagreement. Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that has come from the mouth of God, so it is contradictory for you to follow Jesus instead of following every word that has come from the mouth of God.

Those that follow Moses have not savior and are guilty if idolatry
It is absurd to think that if I follow the command in the Law of Moses against committing idolatry, then I am committing idolatry. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it while it is contradictory for someone who thinks that that have no obligation to obey the Law of Moses to also think that they need salvation from not being a doer of it.

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Apparently some folk think salvation is found thru Moses and not thru Jesus Christ. View attachment 280193
It is God who gave the Law to Moses and who sent Christ, so God is not a difference source of salvation than God.
 
I am Sola Scripture.

Do you hold to the gifts, fruit, and ministries of the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are
the Lord’s commandment
. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

In other words do you walk in the power of the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

Soyeong, do you understand the N.T?
Indeed.
 

I asked you a question Soyeong.

Do you hold to the gifts, fruit, and ministries of the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are
the Lord’s commandment
. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.