None of those verses establish when the old covenant ended. Hebrews 8:13 definitely states that 2 covenants are still operating well after the death of Jesus.
Yes it does -takes away the first to establish the second. Heb10:9
Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments, so its the opposite, you can't hold on to Jesus if you don't keep His commandments because there is no love.
Do you understand how discussions work? I answer your requests and you reciprocate.
But you haven't answered my first and only question. Once you provide the Scripture you claim is there, we can go further. All I asked is for you to provide verses to support your own statements. If it takes 5 messages going back and forth and still no Scripture I am going to safely assume its because its not there. That matches with my own Bible study on this topic. I'll just leave it as agree to disagree.
I already said the Bible doesn't say 70AD. I'm giving you the biblical basis for my claim. If you would answer questions, you would already understand the biblical basis. Instead, you give me verses acknowledging a new covenant, but none that establish when the old covenant ended. I have given you one that clearly teaches that at the time of the writing of Hebrews, the old covenant was still operational.
Who is Paul talking to in Rome?
That's an oxymoron. The Bible doesn't support my claim but I am giving you my biblical basis for supporting my claim. Either our doctrine is supported by the Scriptures or its not. According to your own admission, its not. The Bible is to be the light to guide our path Psa 119:105 so I am going to stick with that. I wish you well.
You're disingenuous. I gave you a verse that showed 2 covenants running concurrently. You shared verses that did not say what you claimed. While they establish a new covenant, and one that supersedes the former, you have failed to establish with scripture when the first covenant ended. Further, if the first covenant ended when you say, you have God ending a covenant before all He promised in the covenant was fulfilled. In essence, God would be a liar. Since this is impossible, it cannot be as you claim.
The verses I posted seemed clear to me. God is not a liar- one agreement ended because it was broken by the people, so God made a new covenant that was ratified by His death. I provided clear Scripture that shows this. All I asked was for you to show me your statement from Scripture and you said its not there. That's really the end of it as far as I am concerned, so I am going to move along.
The old covenant between Israel and God ended when the new covenant was initiated.
You can indeed show me, if and only if, your allowed to alter the meaning of that phrase,
Your "demand" is ridiculous given that the entire NT was written prior to 70 AD.
You don't get it. The covenant is not over until all the terms are met. God promised horrific judgment on Israel for their failure to meet the covenantal stipulations. Did He lie or did He carry out the promised judgment?
Exactly, which proves the point further God's covenant has to have shedding of blood, so ended at His death as Scripture says not 30+ years later.
So prove so not with your words but with Scripture. I supported what I wrote with Scripture. I have asked you multiple times to support what you claim by Scriptures and you have chosen not to.
If it did, God is either a liar and didn't visit upon Israel the promised judgment upon disobedient Israel, or you can say when that occurred.
The verses you employ do establish a new covenant. None of them establish a time when the old covenant ends. Hebrews 8:13 has 2 covenants operating concurrently.
How can it be missed that, unlike cultivated vines, wild branches are untrained. And that the natural branches are cut off for unbelief suggests that unbelief is expressed in the form of a divergence from that cultivation, which then further suggests the cultivation is for belief, considering that wild branches are grafted in after having noticed belief in them. And given that primary commandments which encompass the whole of all the other, I might even venture to assert that belief manifests in an acceptance and also a yielding of love.
