The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Dino246]

According to God, we are judged by our works

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. From the "He who said" God from His own Testimony Exo31:18 the Ten Commandments.

John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

For all the people who think the words Jesus spoke is "just for Jews" is going to be sadly mistaken.

Why God is calling us back to worship Him, we are in the final days because whoever we obey is who we serve (worship)

Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” quoting Exo20:11

Those who have good works or fruits, we are known by our fruits

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

We have to get through judgement first where God decides who is a wheat and who is a tare. After we stand before Christ on judgement day those who He chooses to give the gift of eternal life will be by grace through faith, because we have all sinned and fallen short of God's Glory. But Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat1:21 not in sin Heb10:26-30 if we are not walking a new life in Christ abiding in Him keeping His commandments John15:4-10 though love and faith and faith does not void the law, it does the opposite, it establishes the law Rom3:31 not everyone who says LORD LORD will make it God said He is looking for doers of His word, not just well I thought that was for Jews. Mat7:21-23 Luke6:46-48

You failed to answer the question.

 

[Rob7]

Does it say anything about the ten commandments predating Moses? No. Is there anything anywhere in Scripture about the ten commandments predating Moses? No.

To demonstrate from the Bible that God’s Ten Commandments (or moral law principles) existed before Moses, The Ten Commandments reflect God’s eternal moral law, not something created at Sinai.

---

1. The Law Existed in Principle From Creation;​

Genesis 2:16-17 – “And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

Explanation:
This shows that God gave a command with moral consequences before the Mosaic law. This is evidence that the law of God (the principle of obedience to Him) existed before Sinai. The command not to eat of the tree aligns with the spirit of the Fourth Commandment in that it calls for obedience to God’s authority.

---

2. The Ten Commandments are Eternal Principles​

Exodus 20:1-17 – The Ten Commandments themselves.
While Moses formally received the written tablets here, These reflect eternal moral principles rather than newly given laws.

Psalm 119:89-91 – “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.”

Explanation:
The psalmist affirms that God’s law and statutes are eternal, not created at Sinai. The law was engraved on hearts and minds before Sinai, with Sinai simply formalizing it in written form.

---

3. Abraham and Other Patriarchs Observed God’s Law​

Genesis 26:5 – “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

Explanation:
Abraham lived hundreds of years before Moses, yet he is described as keeping God’s commandments. This implies the commandments were known and binding before Sinai. This implies the commandments were known and binding before Sinai. The patriarchs followed God’s moral law, even without the written tablets.

---

4. The Sabbath as Evidence of Pre-Mosaic Law​

Genesis 2:2-3 – “And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it…”

Explanation:
The Sabbath was instituted at creation, long before Moses, demonstrating that at least the Fourth Commandment existed from the beginning. The Sabbath is a creation ordinance and was observed by Adam, Noah, and Abraham. Moses, Jesus, Paul, et al .... and NOW, we obedient Children of God.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++~~ Blessed Day Folks ~~+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
​

 

[Dino246]

That is a carefully set trap and I can see exactly where it is heading. If I say yes works matter at judgment then the conclusion being prepared is that I am teaching salvation by works. If I say no works do not matter at judgment then the conclusion being prepared is that the commandments are irrelevant. It is a false choice designed to corner rather than to genuinely seek truth.

The only truth I would ever seek from you is honest answers to my questions.

I didn’t ask you this question.

 

[Dino246]

To demonstrate from the Bible that God’s Ten Commandments (or moral law principles) existed before Moses, The Ten Commandments reflect God’s eternal moral law, not something created at Sinai.

---

1. The Law Existed in Principle From Creation;​

Genesis 2:16-17 – “And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

Explanation:
This shows that God gave a command with moral consequences before the Mosaic law. This is evidence that the law of God (the principle of obedience to Him) existed before Sinai. The command not to eat of the tree aligns with the spirit of the Fourth Commandment in that it calls for obedience to God’s authority.

---

2. The Ten Commandments are Eternal Principles​

Exodus 20:1-17 – The Ten Commandments themselves.
While Moses formally received the written tablets here, These reflect eternal moral principles rather than newly given laws.

Psalm 119:89-91 – “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.”

Explanation:
The psalmist affirms that God’s law and statutes are eternal, not created at Sinai. The law was engraved on hearts and minds before Sinai, with Sinai simply formalizing it in written form.

---

3. Abraham and Other Patriarchs Observed God’s Law​

Genesis 26:5 – “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

Explanation:
Abraham lived hundreds of years before Moses, yet he is described as keeping God’s commandments. This implies the commandments were known and binding before Sinai. This implies the commandments were known and binding before Sinai. The patriarchs followed God’s moral law, even without the written tablets.

---

4. The Sabbath as Evidence of Pre-Mosaic Law​

Genesis 2:2-3 – “And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it…”

Explanation:
The Sabbath was instituted at creation, long before Moses, demonstrating that at least the Fourth Commandment existed from the beginning. The Sabbath is a creation ordinance and was observed by Adam, Noah, and Abraham. Moses, Jesus, Paul, et al .... and NOW, we obedient Children of God.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++~~ Blessed Day Folks ~~+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
​

Verbose blather.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

yes, thanks for mentioning this was their likely the next target to attack scripture, ""the law including the commandments are for Jews only."" I hate using the term Attack but this is what some people do they don't seem to realize they go against scripture.

Not just Scripture, Jesus is the Word who was made flesh. Jesus is the one who spoke His Ten Commandments that are perfect converting the soul Psa19:7 is not just the law who one is rejecting, its the law Giver. You can't reject one without the other. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16KJV

John12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Jesus Himself used the commandment of God quoting from the Ten Commandments interchangeable with the word of God.


Mat 15: 3 And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 “For God said, ‘HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,’ and, ‘HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.’
5 “But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,”
6 he is not to honor his father or his mother.’ And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

Why God called the Ten Commandments, the Testimony of God

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

No wonder why the wisest man in the Bible said this

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I do not believe its not that the Scriptures are not clear on this matter, its a matter of being willing to die of self daily and submit to the will of God.

 

[TMS]

Yes, Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, spoke about it.

Yes, He taught in synagogues on the Sabbath. He was Jewish.

Yes, He said to keep His commandments if you love Him. He was speaking to the Jews under the Law.

They all kept it because they were Jewish, including Paul. I’m not Jewish, so I follow Christ under the New Covenant.

My question was, where does he tell us(aka Christians) that keeping the sabbath is required if we love Him?

The Sabbath day was made holy and set aside by God for us. God knew what He was doing. A Time when work will not interfere with your time with God.

It was set in place at creation. Before sin.
Before Jew or Gentile existed.

And there is no place where we are told it was changed.

The 7th day weekly Sabbath is important.
And you need to understand the yearly and cerimonial sabbaths that were added after creation. After sin.

Jesus had many opportunities to tell the world that the sabbath would end, but He never did.
He said not one bit of the law would change.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

In context of the new heavens and Earth. We are told from one sabbath to another we shall all come to worship before God.

Mat 24:20-21
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Pray that your flight isn't on the sabbath day. Jesus was looking at the time of trouble in the last days.

The Sabbath hasn't gone anywhere
Paul kept it and the Gentiles in Acts.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

The one that really hates the sabbath is Satan. It reminds us of our creator, and Redeemer. Satan makes it void in any way he can because it is a special time that God set aside for us to spend with Him.

God has never changed the sabbath.
It was given to all mankind.

Your final question... where does he tell us (as Christians) that keeping the sabbath is required if we love Him? ....

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Mar 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Is Jesus your example of righteousness?
As Lord of the sabbath, we will follow Him and obey the sabbath like Him.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Jesus never told them that the sabbath had changed days or been removed..
They rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

And Jesus rested the sabbath day too.

The Sabbath has not been changed and will not change. There is no reason to think that except tradition.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

 

[TMS]

Happy Sabbath
Give yourself time to come close to the Lord by letting all work go.

Praise God for the sabbath rest each week.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Wow, you must believe God wants only Jewish people to love Him and follow Him none of these verses have your "added" commentary and I would consider what the Scripture warns about adding to the word of God Pro30:5-6

Exodus 31:16–17 says the Sabbath is a sign between God and the children of Israel. If it was a covenant sign specifically with Israel, where does the New Testament command Gentile believers to keep it?

 

[FlyingDove]

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him

Heb 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

This idea that what God asks of us is for "Jews only" is sadly a very deceitful doctrine.

We are saved by grace through faith.

This is what real faith looks like:

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

The faith part is what saves us, the obedience part is what shows if our faith is genuine one not.

To be honest I am not sure I understand the argument. If we love God why would we not want to do what He asks?

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Sadly someone said this was just for Jews, but its really just one deceiving themselves.

1 John2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Every passage you quoted fits the same biblical pattern: faith is the means of receiving eternal life & obedience is the evidence that faith is real. Jn 3:36 uses ""believe"" & ""obey"" as parallel ideas because the ""obedience"" in view is the obedience of believing the Son (Jn 6:29 & Rom 10:16).

Hebrews 5:9 doesn't say obedience produces salvation, it says Christ is the source of salvation & those who obey Him are those who have already believed Him (Rom 1:5 & 16:26). Abraham wasn't justified by works in Gen 22; James says his obedience fulfilled the Scripture that declared him righteous back in Gen 15:6, years earlier. That's faith producing works, not works producing justification. Jesus' warning in Matthew 7 isn't about believers losing salvation. It' about false professors who never knew Him & 1 John’s tests don't say obedience saves. They say obedience reveals whether someone truly knows Christ. None of these passages teach salvation by works. They teach that genuine faith is never alone. Salvation is by grace through faith & the life that follows shows whether that faith is authentic.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

They were Jews they all kept it there is scripture proving this. But before we look at the specific verses you quoted let us establish the most important principle of this entire discussion. When Jesus Himself spoke about the commandments and the Sabbath specifically He left absolutely no room for ambiguity:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass away one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17-18)

And He declared Himself Lord of the Sabbath. Not abolisher of it. Not replacer of it. Lord of it:

And he said unto them the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28)

You cannot be Lord of something that no longer exists. That is the foundation everything else must be measured against.

Now let us address your specific points honestly.

On Acts 15 and the Jerusalem Council

You say the apostles never required Sabbath observance for Gentiles in Acts 15. That is true. But let us read what Acts 15 was actually about. The specific question before the council was whether Gentiles needed to be circumcised and follow the Mosaic ceremonial law for salvation. That was the debate. The council gave four specific requirements to avoid immediate stumbling blocks for new Gentile believers coming out of paganism. It was never intended to be an exhaustive list of every commandment a believer should keep for the rest of their lives. To argue that because the Sabbath was not mentioned in Acts 15 it is therefore abolished is like saying because Acts 15 did not mention murder it is now acceptable to murder.

Furthermore immediately after giving those four requirements James quoted the prophet Amos and then added something remarkable that is almost always overlooked:

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:21)

James was saying the Gentile believers would hear Moses read every Sabbath in the synagogues and learn from there. The assumption built into Acts 15 itself is that Gentile believers would be in the synagogue on the Sabbath learning God's ways. That is the exact opposite of Sabbath abolishment.

On Colossians 2:16-17

This is perhaps the most commonly used verse to argue against Sabbath observance and it deserves very careful attention. Let us read it in the KJV:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holyday or of the new moon or of the sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

There are two critically important things to understand about this verse.

First the context. Paul is writing to believers in Colossae who were being pressured and judged by people pushing a specific false religious system involving asceticism, angel worship and man made regulations. (Colossians 2:18-23). He is telling them not to let these people judge them regarding their practice. He is not telling them to stop observing the Sabbath. He is telling them not to be condemned by legalistic outsiders regarding how they observe it.

Second and most importantly the phrase shadow of things to come refers specifically to the ceremonial sabbaths of the Mosaic calendar, the new moons, the annual feast sabbaths like Passover and the Day of Atonement, not the weekly seventh day Sabbath which was established at creation before any shadow or type existed. The weekly Sabbath was never a shadow pointing to Christ. It was established at creation as a permanent gift to humanity before sin ever entered the world. (Genesis 2:2-3).

The Sabbath that is a shadow in Colossians 2 refers to the ceremonial sabbaths of the annual feasts. The creation Sabbath stands in an entirely different category.

On Romans 14:5

One man esteemeth one day above another another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Romans 14:5)

Read the full context of Romans 14 carefully. Paul is addressing a specific dispute in the Roman church between Jewish believers who observed special fast days and dietary restrictions and Gentile believers who did not. The entire chapter is about not judging one another over personal convictions regarding food and special observance days within that specific cultural context. It is a pastoral letter addressing a local church conflict. It is not a doctrinal statement abolishing the fourth commandment.

Furthermore if Romans 14:5 truly means any day is as good as any other for worship then it equally abolishes Sunday worship since Sunday is also just one day among others by that same logic. Nobody argues that. Which reveals that this verse is not actually about abolishing any particular day of worship at all.

On the Sabbath sacrifices in Numbers 28:9-10

You ask whether we should also keep the Sabbath sacrifices if we keep the Sabbath commandment. This is a fair question and the answer lies in the distinction we have already established. The animal sacrifices were part of the ceremonial and Mosaic system that pointed forward to Christ and were completely fulfilled in His perfect and final sacrifice. They belong to the category of things that were shadows pointing to Him. The weekly Sabbath rest established at creation belongs to the category of the eternal moral law embedded in creation itself. These are two entirely different categories and conflating them creates unnecessary confusion.

The most important point of all

You began by saying the apostles never commanded Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath in the first place. But you are looking in the wrong place for the command. The command did not originate with the apostles. It originated with God at creation and was confirmed by Jesus Himself as Lord of the Sabbath. The question is not what the apostles commanded. The question is what God commanded and what Jesus confirmed.

And Jesus confirmed it with complete clarity:

The sabbath was made for man. (Mark 2:27)

Made for man. Not made for Jews. Not made for Israel. Made for man. At creation. Before any nation, any covenant or any apostolic letter ever existed.

And there is not a single verse in the entire New Testament where Jesus Himself says the Sabbath is abolished, moved to another day or made optional. Not one. The silence of Jesus on abolishing the Sabbath while speaking so clearly about its purpose and declaring Himself its Lord is itself one of the most powerful confirmations that it still stands exactly where God placed it from the very beginning.

Jesus said the law would stand until it was fulfilled, and the New Testament says Christ fulfilled it. Acts 15 specifically addressed whether Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses and never required Sabbath observance. Paul even says not to let anyone judge believers regarding Sabbaths in Colossians 2:16. If the Sabbath were required for Christians, the apostles would have clearly commanded it to the Gentile churches, but the New Testament never does.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Every passage you quoted fits the same biblical pattern: faith is the means of receiving eternal life & obedience is the evidence that faith is real.

Exactly, so how can one come to the conclusion disobeying the commandments of God is a fruit of faith, when its not. No matter how we try to dress it up it is still rebellion, unbelief, disobedience and sin all used interchangeable. Heb3:7-19

 

[Just_A__Follower]

The Sabbath day was made holy and set aside by God for us. God knew what He was doing. A Time when work will not interfere with your time with God.

It was set in place at creation. Before sin.
Before Jew or Gentile existed.

And there is no place where we are told it was changed.

The 7th day weekly Sabbath is important.
And you need to understand the yearly and cerimonial sabbaths that were added after creation. After sin.

Jesus had many opportunities to tell the world that the sabbath would end, but He never did.
He said not one bit of the law would change.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

In context of the new heavens and Earth. We are told from one sabbath to another we shall all come to worship before God.

Mat 24:20-21
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Pray that your flight isn't on the sabbath day. Jesus was looking at the time of trouble in the last days.

The Sabbath hasn't gone anywhere
Paul kept it and the Gentiles in Acts.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

The one that really hates the sabbath is Satan. It reminds us of our creator, and Redeemer. Satan makes it void in any way he can because it is a special time that God set aside for us to spend with Him.

God has never changed the sabbath.
It was given to all mankind.

Your final question... where does he tell us (as Christians) that keeping the sabbath is required if we love Him? ....

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Mar 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Is Jesus your example of righteousness?
As Lord of the sabbath, we will follow Him and obey the sabbath like Him.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Jesus never told them that the sabbath had changed days or been removed..
They rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

And Jesus rested the sabbath day too.

The Sabbath has not been changed and will not change. There is no reason to think that except tradition.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Genesis 2:2–3 says God rested and blessed the day, but it never commands mankind to keep the Sabbath.

Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was born under the Law (Galatians 4:4), just as He also kept circumcision, Passover, and temple practices.

Paul preaching in synagogues on the Sabbath in Acts shows when Jews gathered, not that Gentile Christians were commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:23 mentions new moons along with Sabbaths, which would imply the whole temple calendar if taken as a literal future command.

When Jesus says “keep my commandments” in John 14:15, the New Testament later summarizes that commandment as believing in Him and loving one another (1 John 3:23).

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Exodus 31:16–17 says the Sabbath is a sign between God and the children of Israel. If it was a covenant sign specifically with Israel, where does the New Testament command Gentile believers to keep it?

You left out some of the context

Exo 31: 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

God is relating the Sabbath as a sign that points back to Creation, before sin, before Israel, just man and God. The Sabbath was made for man Mark2:27 not Israel, not Jew, but everyone who wants to join themselves to the LORD and serve Him Isa56:6

God's Sabbath rest was available from the foundation of the world that we enter through faith, those who enter also rest from their works as God did on the seventh day Heb4:4,10


Heb 4:3 “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

The Sabbath day for rest was available from Creation before Jew, Gentile, Israel, Moses,

This is according to the LORD written and spoken by God.

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates (Gentiles). 11 For in six days the LORD made (same as Exo31:17) the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Genesis 2:2–3 says God rested and blessed the day, but it never commands mankind to keep the Sabbath.

Jesus said the Sabbath MADE for mankind. What the Greek word He used means Mark2:27 when was mankind made- at Creation Gen1:26 before the first Sabbath Exo20:11 that God made for man Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3

Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was born under the Law (Galatians 4:4), just as He also kept circumcision, Passover, and temple practices.

Can you post where it says Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was born "under the law" Do you understand what "under the law" means biblically?

Paul preaching in synagogues on the Sabbath in Acts shows when Jews gathered, not that Gentile Christians were commanded to keep the Sabbath.

It was the Gentiles asking for more gospel preaching on the Sabbath

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Did Paul correct one person and say we now keep day 1 and not the Sabbath of the LORD?

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God

Of course not because that would make Paul rebellious and everything Paul did was according to Christ, not man-made traditions both Jesus and Paul warned about over obeying the commandments of God.

Both Jews and Gentiles kept every Sabbath because this is according to God, its one of God's commandments that God's people keep through faith and love Rev14:12

Isaiah 66:23 mentions new moons along with Sabbaths, which would imply the whole temple calendar if taken as a literal future command.

New Moons can mean new month and there are no festivals tied to this verse, can you point it out please, this is in the New Heaven and New earth and this is the LORD speaking so telling Him the Sabbath is not included because one doesn't understand the New Moon doesn't seem like a good idea.

When Jesus says “keep my commandments” in John 14:15, the New Testament later summarizes that commandment as believing in Him and loving one another (1 John 3:23).

So should we ignore what Jesus said are His commandments Mat 19:17-19 Mat5:17-30 Mat15:3-14 Jesus is God and is repeating Exo20:6 only God can define His commandments and He did both personally written by God and spoken by God Exo31:18 and caled as a unit of Ten as My commandments Exo20:6

 

[Just_A__Follower]

You left out some of the context

Exo 31: 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

God is relating the Sabbath as a sign that points back to Creation, before sin, before Israel, just man and God. The Sabbath was made for man Mark2:27 not Israel, not Jew, but everyone who wants to join themselves to the LORD and serve Him Isa56:6

God's Sabbath rest was available from the foundation of the world that we enter through faith, those who enter also rest from their works as God did on the seventh day Heb4:4,10


Heb 4:3 “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

The Sabbath day for rest was available from Creation before Jew, Gentile, Israel, Moses,

This is according to the LORD written and spoken by God.

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates (Gentiles). 11 For in six days the LORD made (same as Exo31:17) the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Where in scripture are gentiles commanded to keep the sabbath? Simple question with a simple answer. NOWHERE

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Where in scripture are gentiles commanded to keep the sabbath? Simple question with a simple answer. NOWHERE

Sure there is you just do not believe it applies to you when God said it does.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Isa 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner (Gentiles)
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

John14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love

1John2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Heb 4:9 There remains a Sabbath-rest (keeping) for the people of God.

sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

Rev14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


Its not that the word of God is not plain, sadly its the same issue as those who came before us Eze20:15-16 Heb3:7-19 Heb4:11

 

[Rob7]

"the faith of obedience".

Mem ! Hits VERY hard for you to argue against, "Faith that leads to Obedience" as in Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? ( as in DISOBEY ) It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." ( It's hard to argue against ( The Truth ) => believing and following our Lord )

True faith is not mere belief, but a trusting relationship with God that produces obedience to His commandments, especially the Ten Commandments. The Bible presents this consistently.

1. Faith and Obedience Are United in Abraham’s Example​

• Genesis 26:5 – “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”
• Genesis 22:1-18 – Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice Isaac shows faith expressed through obedience.
• Romans 4:20-21 – “He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.”

Faith is inseparable from obedience. Abraham’s faith was demonstrated by action, fulfilling God’s commandments. Abraham’s faith was “a faith that works by love and obedience”

2. Faith Without Obedience Is Dead​

• James 2:17 – “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”
• James 2:21-22 – “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”

Faith that does not result in obedience is incomplete. “Faith is not a passive thing; it is a living principle, producing obedience”

3. Obedience as the Fruit of Faith in Christ​

• John 14:15 – “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
• John 14:21 – “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”
• Romans 1:5 – “…by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations…”

Obedience flows from faith in Christ. ... “the faith which works by love” produces a life of obedience to God’s law.

4. Faith Leads to Righteousness Through Obedience​

• Habakkuk 2:4 – “The just shall live by his faith.”
• Romans 1:17 – “…the just shall live by faith.”
• Revelation 14:12 – “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

True faith is demonstrated in a life in harmony with God’s commandments, called “the faith OF Jesus.” This as obedience being the proof and fruit of saving faith.

“The faith of obedience” is not optional; it is biblically grounded. True faith inherently results in obedience to God, showing love for Him and trusting His promises.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
​

 

[vassal]

Jesus said the law would stand until it was fulfilled, and the New Testament says Christ fulfilled it. Acts 15 specifically addressed whether Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses and never required Sabbath observance. Paul even says not to let anyone judge believers regarding Sabbaths in Colossians 2:16. If the Sabbath were required for Christians, the apostles would have clearly commanded it to the Gentile churches, but the New Testament never does.

I want to walk through this carefully because honestly this argument sounds really convincing at first glance for someone not understand scripture and I understand why people could find it persuasive. But when you actually sit with each point and go back to what Jesus Himself said the whole thing starts to unravel pretty quickly. Let me show you what I mean. BTY, I have already explained most of this several times.

The first claim is that Christ fulfilled the law so it no longer stands. This is built on a misreading of what Jesus actually said and it is worth reading His words slowly because He was very deliberate here:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass away one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

The Greek word for fulfil is pleroo and it means to fill something to its fullest and deepest meaning, not to finish it off and throw it away. Think about it this way. When you fulfil a promise you do not abolish the promise. You bring it to its complete reality. Jesus was saying He came to show the law in its deepest and truest meaning, which is exactly what He did throughout the Sermon on the Mount going deeper into the heart behind every commandment.

And here is something I find really compelling about this passage. Jesus warned in the very same breath that anyone who breaks one of the least commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. You simply do not warn people against breaking rules that are about to disappear. That makes no sense at all. He confirmed the commandments as a living permanent standard right there in the same sentence as the fulfillment statement.

On top of that Jesus said not one jot or tittle would pass until all is fulfilled. Has everything been fulfilled yet? Has the resurrection of all the dead happened? Has the final judgment taken place? Has the new heaven and earth arrived? The answer to all of those is no. So by Jesus own words the law is still standing.

Now on Acts 15 I think it is really important to understand what that council was actually dealing with because this argument misrepresents it. Like I explained before several times, the specific crisis was whether Gentiles needed to be circumcised for salvation. That was the question. The four practical requirements the council gave were urgent guidelines to help brand new Gentile believers coming straight out of paganism to live alongside Jewish believers without causing immediate offense and stumbling. They were never meant to be a complete list of every commandment a Christian would ever keep for the rest of their life.

To say the Sabbath is abolished because Acts 15 did not mention it is what logicians call an argument from silence and it falls apart immediately when you apply it consistently. Acts 15 also never mentioned murder or adultery. Nobody concludes from that silence that murder is now fine for Gentile Christians. The same logic has to apply consistently or it does not work at all.

And honestly the detail that almost everyone skips over in Acts 15 is what James said right after giving those four requirements:

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:21)

James was pointing out that Gentile believers would have ongoing opportunity to learn God's ways because Moses was read every Sabbath in the synagogues. The quiet assumption built right into Acts 15 itself is that Gentile believers would be present on the Sabbath learning Scripture. That is pretty much the opposite of the council concluding the Sabbath does not apply to Gentiles.

On Colossians 2:16 this is honestly the verse I see misused most often in. Paul was writing to believers in Colossae who were being harassed and judged by people pushing a very specific false religious system involving angel worship, extreme asceticism and man made rules. He was telling them not to let these outsiders condemn them regarding their practice. He was not telling them to stop observing these things. That is a genuinely important distinction that changes the meaning of the verse completely.

And here is something that gets missed almost every time. The sabbath days mentioned in Colossians 2:16 refer to the ceremonial sabbaths of the Mosaic calendar, the annual feast sabbaths like Passover, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. These were indeed shadows and types pointing forward to Christ and His redemptive work. But the weekly seventh day Sabbath established at creation is in a completely different category. It was set apart before sin entered the world, before Israel existed, before any ceremonial system was ever given. It was never a shadow pointing to something else. It was a permanent gift of rest that God built into the very rhythm of creation itself, blessed it and sanctified it on that specific day:

And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (Genesis 2:3)

You cannot lump those two things together and treat them as the same, it is a grave mistake doing so.

On the final claim that if the Sabbath were required the apostles would have clearly commanded it, this misunderstands something really fundamental. The Sabbath was never the apostles idea to command or not command. It was God's command established at creation and confirmed by Jesus Himself as its Lord:

The sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.(Mark 2:27-28)

Think about that for a moment. You cannot be Lord of something that no longer exists. A king is not lord of a kingdom he just dissolved. When Jesus declared Himself Lord of the Sabbath He was claiming ownership and authority over it. And He said it was made for man, the Greek word anthropos meaning all of humanity, not just the Jewish people.

Here is the thing that I keep coming back to in this whole discussion. There is not a single verse in any of the four Gospels where Jesus says the Sabbath is abolished, moved to a different day or made optional for His followers. Not one. Jesus addressed the Sabbath multiple times in His ministry and every single time He talked about its true meaning and purpose. He never once said it was ending. That silence from Jesus on abolishing the Sabbath while declaring Himself its Lord is one of the most powerful confirmations that it still stands exactly where God placed it.

And the writer of Hebrews sealed it with one carefully chosen word writing to New Covenant believers:

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9)

The word translated rest there is the Greek word sabbatismos which literally means a keeping of the Sabbath. The writer had plenty of other Greek words for rest available to him and he chose that one deliberately. And he said it remaineth. Still there. Still waiting. Still for God's people under the New Covenant.

So here is where I land on all of this. This argument takes some genuine truths and then draws conclusions from them that the actual texts do not support and that Jesus directly contradicts. The Sabbath was established at creation by God, confirmed by Jesus as its Lord, declared as remaining for God's people by the writer of Hebrews and never abolished by a single word from the mouth of Christ. And His words are the standard everything else gets measured by:

Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:35)

I hope this is clear now and I will not explain this again to you.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I want to walk through this carefully because honestly this argument sounds really convincing at first glance for someone not understand scripture and I understand why people could find it persuasive. But when you actually sit with each point and go back to what Jesus Himself said the whole thing starts to unravel pretty quickly. Let me show you what I mean. BTY, I have already explained most of this several times.

The first claim is that Christ fulfilled the law so it no longer stands. This is built on a misreading of what Jesus actually said and it is worth reading His words slowly because He was very deliberate here:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass away one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

The Greek word for fulfil is pleroo and it means to fill something to its fullest and deepest meaning, not to finish it off and throw it away. Think about it this way. When you fulfil a promise you do not abolish the promise. You bring it to its complete reality. Jesus was saying He came to show the law in its deepest and truest meaning, which is exactly what He did throughout the Sermon on the Mount going deeper into the heart behind every commandment.

And here is something I find really compelling about this passage. Jesus warned in the very same breath that anyone who breaks one of the least commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. You simply do not warn people against breaking rules that are about to disappear. That makes no sense at all. He confirmed the commandments as a living permanent standard right there in the same sentence as the fulfillment statement.

On top of that Jesus said not one jot or tittle would pass until all is fulfilled. Has everything been fulfilled yet? Has the resurrection of all the dead happened? Has the final judgment taken place? Has the new heaven and earth arrived? The answer to all of those is no. So by Jesus own words the law is still standing.

Now on Acts 15 I think it is really important to understand what that council was actually dealing with because this argument misrepresents it. Like I explained before several times, the specific crisis was whether Gentiles needed to be circumcised for salvation. That was the question. The four practical requirements the council gave were urgent guidelines to help brand new Gentile believers coming straight out of paganism to live alongside Jewish believers without causing immediate offense and stumbling. They were never meant to be a complete list of every commandment a Christian would ever keep for the rest of their life.

To say the Sabbath is abolished because Acts 15 did not mention it is what logicians call an argument from silence and it falls apart immediately when you apply it consistently. Acts 15 also never mentioned murder or adultery. Nobody concludes from that silence that murder is now fine for Gentile Christians. The same logic has to apply consistently or it does not work at all.

And honestly the detail that almost everyone skips over in Acts 15 is what James said right after giving those four requirements:

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:21)

James was pointing out that Gentile believers would have ongoing opportunity to learn God's ways because Moses was read every Sabbath in the synagogues. The quiet assumption built right into Acts 15 itself is that Gentile believers would be present on the Sabbath learning Scripture. That is pretty much the opposite of the council concluding the Sabbath does not apply to Gentiles.

On Colossians 2:16 this is honestly the verse I see misused most often in. Paul was writing to believers in Colossae who were being harassed and judged by people pushing a very specific false religious system involving angel worship, extreme asceticism and man made rules. He was telling them not to let these outsiders condemn them regarding their practice. He was not telling them to stop observing these things. That is a genuinely important distinction that changes the meaning of the verse completely.

And here is something that gets missed almost every time. The sabbath days mentioned in Colossians 2:16 refer to the ceremonial sabbaths of the Mosaic calendar, the annual feast sabbaths like Passover, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. These were indeed shadows and types pointing forward to Christ and His redemptive work. But the weekly seventh day Sabbath established at creation is in a completely different category. It was set apart before sin entered the world, before Israel existed, before any ceremonial system was ever given. It was never a shadow pointing to something else. It was a permanent gift of rest that God built into the very rhythm of creation itself, blessed it and sanctified it on that specific day:

And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (Genesis 2:3)

You cannot lump those two things together and treat them as the same, it is a grave mistake doing so.

On the final claim that if the Sabbath were required the apostles would have clearly commanded it, this misunderstands something really fundamental. The Sabbath was never the apostles idea to command or not command. It was God's command established at creation and confirmed by Jesus Himself as its Lord:

The sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.(Mark 2:27-28)

Think about that for a moment. You cannot be Lord of something that no longer exists. A king is not lord of a kingdom he just dissolved. When Jesus declared Himself Lord of the Sabbath He was claiming ownership and authority over it. And He said it was made for man, the Greek word anthropos meaning all of humanity, not just the Jewish people.

Here is the thing that I keep coming back to in this whole discussion. There is not a single verse in any of the four Gospels where Jesus says the Sabbath is abolished, moved to a different day or made optional for His followers. Not one. Jesus addressed the Sabbath multiple times in His ministry and every single time He talked about its true meaning and purpose. He never once said it was ending. That silence from Jesus on abolishing the Sabbath while declaring Himself its Lord is one of the most powerful confirmations that it still stands exactly where God placed it.

And the writer of Hebrews sealed it with one carefully chosen word writing to New Covenant believers:

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9)

The word translated rest there is the Greek word sabbatismos which literally means a keeping of the Sabbath. The writer had plenty of other Greek words for rest available to him and he chose that one deliberately. And he said it remaineth. Still there. Still waiting. Still for God's people under the New Covenant.

So here is where I land on all of this. This argument takes some genuine truths and then draws conclusions from them that the actual texts do not support and that Jesus directly contradicts. The Sabbath was established at creation by God, confirmed by Jesus as its Lord, declared as remaining for God's people by the writer of Hebrews and never abolished by a single word from the mouth of Christ. And His words are the standard everything else gets measured by:

Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:35)

I hope this is clear now and I will not explain this again to you.

I asked one simple question in which you cannot answer directly.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

prove it show us the verses, (there is none except the 4 items in acts 15, just want to save you time) if you find a verse let me know.

Also define the new covenant what is it according to scripture?

Who was the Son and what do you think His death accomplished?