You can say what you want about the SDA lifestyle, but even a Sunday pastor spoke about it and did some interesting math in this three minute video
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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God never let love to God or mankind go undefined. That's the issue, man keeps telling God what things are when it needs to be the other way around. Like telling Him what is sin, not the other way around 1John3:4 James 2:111 Mat5:19-30, telling Him what is righteousness, not the other way around Isa56:1-2 Psa119:172 when His is everlasting Psa119:142 the foundation of His throne Psa89:14. This is not a new story its the same one in Scripture- we want all of God's blessings on our terms not His isa56:1-2, to be His servant on our terms, not His Isa56:6 we are just like Israel Eze 20:16 making ourselves our own god, whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16KJV
This is what love to God the Greatest Commandments according to God.
Mat 22:27 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
Which Jesus was quoting OT Deut6:5 Lev 19:18
So they are grounded in OT principles, not new ones.
When it comes to loving someone, is it based on what we feel on how we are to love someone or should it be based on what that person tells us is how to love them. In the case of God, He only taught loving Him with the accordance of keeping His commandments. So how can we love God with all our heart, soul and mind but not keep His commandments. The answer is plainly you can't. So to separate the greatest commandments to love God with our all, from the commandments where God tells us how to love Him, is sadly a very deceitful doctrine.
The first time God introduces this principle of how we are to love Him is right in the Testimony of God - written by God, spoken by God. God literally tells us how to love Him so its impossible to separate the greatest commandments from the commandments on how God tells us to love Him.
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
If we look at the first time loving God with all our heart, mind and soul was stated, what was happening when this was stated.
The Ten Commandments right where love to God was written down by God Himself was repeated- 40 years after God have them His commandments both spoken by God and written by God.
After they were repeated this was stated...
Deut 6:1 “Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2 that you may fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and [a]be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’
4 “Hear, O Israel: [b]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Keep God's commands in your heart
Teach them to your children
Talk about them daily
Let His Word guide your life constantly
Why this is such a dangerous teaching :
They can't be elevated above the Ten if the Ten are not included on how God tells us how to love Him. Why Jesus will say why do you call me LORD LORD and not do what I say. Loving God on our own terms is selfish love- God is looking for those who love Him with all their heart, mind and soul. God tells how to love Him- it wasn't like He wasn't clear- He both spoke it and wrote it personally.
And it includes the 4th commandment, because the greatest commandments to love God with all their heart, mind and soul was the condition of the Israelites receiving their inheritance:
But what happened, did they love God with all their heart, mind and soul and received their inheritance?
Sadly many did not because....
The Sabbath is part of the greatest commandments to love God with all our heart, mind and soul. Profaning the Sabbath God relates to breaking another commandment- idol worship because we are replacing the words of God with another voice.
The devil is trying to take away our inheritance as well that we have not yet entered Rev22:14
Will we listen to the same voices that deceived those in the wilderness we are told not to follow in their example of disobedience Heb4:11 or will we join ourselves to the LORD Isa 56:6 and stay faithful to Him not forgetting something He asked us to Remember. Exo20:8-11 and keep if we love Him Exo20:6 both written and spoken by God. God tells us how to love Him- will we beleive Him is the bigger question.
I have no problem with people meeting on Saturdays, Tuesdays at 3am, or whatever day they choose. The great thing about our Lord is His 24/7 open door policy.
The problem I have is when people are persecuted for meeting on a certain day or for not keeping a rule that the New Testament says we aren’t required to keep. For someone to call another a wolf or tell them they are going to hell because they worship on a different day is where I have a problem.
In Romans 14:5, Paul says one person esteems one day above another, while another esteems every day alike, and he concludes that we should each be fully convinced in our own mind. If Paul says the day is a matter of personal conviction, why are you making it a matter of salvation? It seems like you’ve turned a day of rest into a weapon of judgment, which is the exact opposite of the rest Jesus offers.
That way of thinking is typical of the many “Made in America” religions from the 1800s. While they might say other Christians are saved for now, their actual doctrines teach that you aren't truly heaven-bound unless you eventually follow their specific 19th-century rules. Whether it's the Sabbath, a Temple, or an Organization, they all make their special light the final door to eternal life. If these groups all claim to restore the truth but contradict each other and the Apostles, then none of them are the truth.
If these groups were all restoring the same Holy Spirit truth in the 1800s, why did the Spirit tell the SDA the Sabbath is the only way to be saved, while telling the JW and the Christadelphians that the Sabbath doesn't matter at all? Does God contradict Himself, or is it just the commandments of men?
| Feature | Joseph Smith (Mormonism) | Ellen G. White (SDA) |
|---|---|---|
| Origin Point | 1830s "Burned-over District," NY | 1840s "Burned-over District," NY |
| First Vision | Age 14 (The First Vision) | Age 17 (The Midnight Cry) |
| Claim to Truth | The "Only True and Living Church" | The "Remnant Church" of Revelation |
| Core Mission | Restore the "Lost Priesthood" | Restore the "Lost Sabbath" |
| Authority | Modern Prophetic Office | The "Spirit of Prophecy" |
| Extra Books | Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl | Conflict of the Ages (5+ Volumes) |
| Health Code | "Word of Wisdom" (No alcohol/coffee) | "Health Reform" (No alcohol/meat) |
| Temple Focus | Literal Temples for rituals | Heavenly Sanctuary for "Judgment" |
| Failed Prophecy | Zion in Missouri (Had to flee) | 1844 Return (Had to reinterpret) |
| Status of Writing | "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" | "Lesser Light" to lead to the Bible |
| View of Trinity | Originally Anti-Trinity | Originally Anti-Trinity |
| End-Time Panic | Gathering to Zion to escape wrath | Fleeing to mountains from Sunday Law |
| Belief | SDA | Jehovah's Witnesses | Christadelphians |
|---|---|---|---|
| The "State of the Dead" | Soul Sleep (Unconscious) | Soul Sleep (Unconscious) | Soul Sleep (Unconscious) |
| Punishment of Wicked | Annihilation (No Hell) | Annihilation (No Hell) | Annihilation (No Hell) |
| View of Michael | Jesus Christ | Jesus Christ | Archangel (Non-Jesus) |
| Sabbath Requirement | Mandatory Saturday | Not Mandatory | Not Mandatory |
| Trinity Doctrine | Accepted (later) | Rejected | Rejected |
| Special Authority | Ellen G. White | The Governing Body | Individual Study |
Out of context. You twist the Word of God, believe the word of a known false prophetess, and deny that she said what she said by saying "out of context". Tell me in what context did she mean that God told her vegetarians are more spiritual than us sinful meat eaters?
You're problem is with the word of God and what He commanded.
The 4th commandment was never just a recommendation from God, or pick out the day you want to keep holy. This is God's written and spoken will and Testimony and the issue is directly with Him.
The 4th commandment was not just about the Sabbath it is how God our Creator told us to keep all days.
Exo20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
God placed this in the same unit as only worship Him and not murder our neighbor. The issue is not liking what God asks for us to do if we love Him. Its not a new issue, its the same story in the Bible just continuing on in our day. Professed people of God telling God how we love and serve Him instead of allowing God to be God.
Sadly another verse taken out of context and elevating Paul above our Lord and Savior. The context is in the very first verse about how to handle disputes of personal opinions. Why this says what one person esteems- when does that trump what the LORD thy God esteems, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Exo20:10 the holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 thus saith the LORD. Its sad what the LORD says has no value anymore. Paul said everything has to be according to Christ Col2:8 I would recommend doing what Paul did and reconcile Paul to Christ not Christ to Paul. Paul came with a salvation warning for a good reason 2Peter3:16
Ellen White did not predict 1844 she was a Methodist in 1844 and the person who predicted was a Baptist minister, your AI is wrong again. EGW was never "anti-trinity" another false witness that the LORD does not take lightly
Evangelism, p. 615
She wrote: “There are three living persons of the heavenly trio … the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”
The Desire of Ages, p. 671
She referred to the Holy Spirit as the “third person of the Godhead.”
Bible Training School, March 1, 1906
She wrote that “The Father can not be described by the things of earth,” then said the Father is “all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,” the Son is “all the fullness of the Godhead manifested,” and elsewhere in that same issue speaks of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost together.
Evangelism, p. 614
She said the Comforter is “the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead.”
More false accusations.
We can find what happens when we die directly from Jesus and what He calls it.
Mat11:11 “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”
1 Thess 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
So saying this is a false teaching is saying Jesus taught a false teaching. This is the same spirit that led to His crucifixion that how many here would have been on the side of Jesus had they lived during that time or followed the crowd they way the do so now.
SDA's believe in hell - the way the Bible defines it, the grave. The wages of sin is DEATH Rom6:23 those who believe in Him will not PERISH (DEATH) not eternal torment that is an attack on the character of God.
Trinity doctrine not rejected originally as already proven
The 4th commandment is no different than any of the other 9 according to God Deut4:13 James2:11 so plucking out one of God's commandments when God didn't makes one their own god. Telling God He is wrong and we know better.
The last one was already proven that you are wrong the fact the you posted it again shows you don't care about your witness, God does and does not take it lightly and we will all have to answer to Him one day soon. He will be the Judge on all of this not us.
Here are her own words
She clearly stated that Scripture alone is the foundation for belief.
This shows she viewed the Bible as the authoritative standard, not her own writings.
She explained that the purpose of her writings was to direct people to the Bible, not substitute for it.
So her writings were meant to encourage people to study Scripture more deeply.
She emphasized that every teaching must be measured by Scripture.
That means even claims of visions or prophetic messages must be evaluated by the Bible.
She explained that her testimonies were needed mainly because many believers were not studying Scripture as they should.
This statement shows she believed Scripture itself was sufficient, and her writings served as a corrective when people neglected it.
According to Ellen White:
The Bible alone is the rule of faith.
Her writings do not replace Scripture.
All teachings must be tested by the Bible.
Oh good. So we can ignore her vision relating to vegetarianism.You're problem is with the word of God and what He commanded.
The 4th commandment was never just a recommendation from God, or pick out the day you want to keep holy. This is God's written and spoken will and Testimony and the issue is directly with Him.
The 4th commandment was not just about the Sabbath it is how God our Creator told us to keep all days.
Exo20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
God placed this in the same unit as only worship Him and not murder our neighbor. The issue is not liking what God asks for us to do if we love Him. Its not a new issue, its the same story in the Bible just continuing on in our day. Professed people of God telling God who we love and serve Him instead of allowing God to be God.
Sadly another verse taken out of context and elevating Paul above our Lord and Savior. The context is in the very first verse about how to handle disputes of personal opinions. Why this says what one person esteems- when does that trump what the LORD thy God esteems, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Exo20:10 the holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 thus saith the LORD. Its sad what the LORD says has no value anymore.
Ellen White did not predict 1844 she was a Methodist in 1844 and the person who predicted was a Baptist minister, your AI that you take over the word of God. EGW was never "anti-trinity" another false witness that the LORD does not take lightly
Evangelism, p. 615
She wrote: “There are three living persons of the heavenly trio … the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”
The Desire of Ages, p. 671
She referred to the Holy Spirit as the “third person of the Godhead.”
Bible Training School, March 1, 1906
She wrote that “The Father can not be described by the things of earth,” then said the Father is “all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,” the Son is “all the fullness of the Godhead manifested,” and elsewhere in that same issue speaks of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost together.
Evangelism, p. 614
She said the Comforter is “the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead.”
More false accusations.
We can find what happens when we die directly from Jesus and what He calls it.
Mat11:11 “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”
1 Thess 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
So saying this is a false teaching is saying Jesus taught a false teaching. This is the same spirit that led to His crucifixion that how many here would have been on the side of Jesus had they lived during that time or followed the crowd they way the do so now.
SDA's believe in hell - the way the Bible defines it, the grave. The wages of sin is DEATH Rom6:23 those who believe in Him will not PERISH (DEATH) not eternal torment that is an attack on the character of God.
Trinity doctrine not rejected originally as already proven
The 4th commandment is no different than any of the other 9 according to God Deut4:13 James2:11 so plucking out one of God's commandments when God didn't makes one their own god. Telling God He is wrong and we know better.
The last one was already proven that you are wrong the fact the you posted it again shows you don't care about your witness, God does and does not take it lightly and we will all have to answer to Him one day soon. He will be the Judge on all of this not us.
Here are her own words
She clearly stated that Scripture alone is the foundation for belief.
This shows she viewed the Bible as the authoritative standard, not her own writings.
She explained that the purpose of her writings was to direct people to the Bible, not substitute for it.
So her writings were meant to encourage people to study Scripture more deeply.
She emphasized that every teaching must be measured by Scripture.
That means even claims of visions or prophetic messages must be evaluated by the Bible.
She explained that her testimonies were needed mainly because many believers were not studying Scripture as they should.
This statement shows she believed Scripture itself was sufficient, and her writings served as a corrective when people neglected it.
Summary
According to Ellen White:
- The Bible alone is the rule of faith.
- Her writings do not replace Scripture.
- All teachings must be tested by the Bible.
Thanks for your comments. I will number my replies for easier reference.
1. Yes, God defines love, but the OT way of endless laws was updated by the NT way of the HS.
2. Yes, although Jesus explained some of the Decalogue in his Sermon on the Mount, he summarized God's commandments in the "Duologue" (Matt. 22:37-40).
3. Both the OT & NT commandments were grounded in God's eternal moral will (Rom. 1:20, 2:14).
4. The Decalogue was only part of the "commands, decrees and laws" that God gave the Israelites
(Deut. 7:11, 8:1, 10:13, 11:1, 12:1, 13-25, 26:16, 27:1, 28:1, 29:1).
5. God fulfilled/updated/amended/superseded the OC via the NC or Gospel of Christ, re-commanding moral laws,
of which the Sabbath law (4th of the 10) was not included except with the meaning in Heb. 4:7-11 and Rom. 3:21-31.
Regarding the Sabbath:
1. Jesus declared that he is Lord of the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (in Matt. 12:1-12), healing a crippled woman on the Sabbath (in Luke 13:10-16).
2. If Jesus thought keeping the Sabbath was an important law, he would have affirmed it on these two occasions, but he did not specifically nullify it either, which jibes/harmonizes perfectly with Paul.
3. Paul taught that a person may rest on the Sabbath or not (in Col. 2:16, Gal. 4:9-11 & Rom. 14:5).
4. Paul taught that Christ’s crucifixion abolished the law and commandments that separated the Jews and Gentiles (Eph. 2:13-16).
5. Paul taught that the law was powerless to save because of humanity’s sinful nature, so God sent His Son and the Holy Spirit to save believers in Christ (Rom. 8:1-17).
6. Paul indicated that God disqualifies those who reject the Gospel (Rom. 9:1-5, 30-32, 1o:1-13, 16-21) and that reversion to the OC nullifies conversion (Gal. 1:6-9).
7. Hebrews encourages Christians to enter God’s Sabbath rest by persevering faith in Christ’s atonement (Heb. 2:14-4:11).
In Hebrews 7:11-10:1 the Lord says that the OC including the Sabbath Law is obsolete/superseded by the Gospel of Christ. Other Scriptures where Sabbath law is viewed as Levitical rather than moral (because Jesus worked by doing healing) include: Matt. 5:17-20, 12:1-8 & 12-14, Luke 13:10-17, 14:1-6, John 5:1-18 & 9:1-34. These Scriptures indicate that the main reason Jesus was crucified was for the crime of breaking Sabbath law and claiming to be from God. We see that Jesus never taught anyone to keep the 4th commandment and never hinted that it was an eternal moral law, but instead indicated that it is merely Levitical tradition, and so Paul wrote “Do not let anyone judge you… with regard to a Sabbath day” (Col. 2:16, cf. Eph. 2:11-22).
Read 1 Corinthians chapter 13 to find out what love is. I note that there is no reference to keeping the law of Moses in Paul's definition.
Can you show me where Moses is in these verses. Moses was there with God and never took credit for the law of God what God called "My (God) commandments" Exo20:6 that still continue Rev14:12 What man has tried to do erase the God of the OT as if Jesus is not that same God. It is essentially erasing Jesus Col 1:16 Exo20:11 Mark2:28 but people don't see that. Jesus is the great I AM in the OT. Jesus is the one speaking His own commandments and they were written by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18 He plainly said He did not come to destroy His commandments but fulfill which He promised to magnify, Isa42:21 why not a jot or tittle can pass because who can correct God? If you feel you can be my guest, God will sort all of this out soon enough.
I find it perplexing that so many people relate the Ten Commandments as the law of Moses when the Law itself has nothing to do with Moses, but has everything to do with our relationship with God. God’s name (not Moses) is in each one of these commandments and He takes ownership of them not just in the words itself, but He did not leave His holy and eternal Law to be written by man, God divinely wrote them Himself, not just once but twice. He wrote them in stone for its eternal nature and then He writes His laws in our heart 2Cor3:3 Heb 8:10 The first 4 commandments show how to love God and the last 6 how we love our neighbor. They cover so much more than people realize Psa 119:96 just as Jesus taught from this same unit Mat 5:19-30
Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
I personally do not see how Scripture could be clearer about whose Law is the Ten Commandments and Moses the creation and servant of God, is not God the Creator of everything Exo 20:11. Moses own testimony said the Ten Commandments is God’s work not his, so why do so many insist it’s the law of Moses so we no longer need to keep them when there is not one Scripture in context that says this.
Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.
Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
No my problem is your Imaginary final test and sda’s condemning Christian’s that don’t follow a false prophet.
I’m not going back into the circle with you on the calendar. Paul already settled it in Romans 14:5 when he said the day is a matter of personal conviction. When you make it a matter of salvation, you are adding a burden that the Apostles explicitly rejected in Acts 15. I’m sticking with the Blood of the Lamb as my only test of loyalty.
You claim I am elevating Paul above Jesus, but Paul was an inspired Apostle. When he said in Romans 14:5 that the day we pick is a matter of personal conviction, he was speaking for God. If the Saturday Sabbath was a mandatory "Test of Loyalty" for salvation, Paul’s advice would have been dangerous and wrong. Why did an inspired Apostle give us a choice if you say God didn't?
You mentioned Ellen White was a Methodist in 1844, but the fact remains that she and the other founders built an entire denomination to explain away why William Miller’s date failed. That is the same "Made in America" pattern shared by the JWs and Mormons. Why did the Holy Spirit supposedly restore the same Soul Sleep and Anti-Trinity doctrines to multiple 19th-century groups at the same time, but then give them all completely different rules about the Sabbath? Does the Holy Spirit contradict Himself, or was this just a 19th-century religious trend?
You quoted her books from the 1890s to prove she was Trinitarian, but you ignored the first 50 years of your church history. In 1846, her husband James White called the Trinity an unscriptural creed while she kept silent for 50 years. If the "Spirit of Prophecy" and your church leaders were wrong about the very nature of God for half a century, why should I trust their 19th-century interpretation of anything else?
"The way spiritualizers have disposed of or denied the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ is first using the old unscriptural Trinitarian creed, viz., that Jesus Christ is the eternal God, though they have not one passage to support it." (James White, The Day Star, January 24, 1846)
"The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325. This doctrine destroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." (J N Andrew’s, Review and Herald, March 6, 1855)
You used Jesus calling death "sleep" to prove unconsciousness, but in Luke 23:43, Jesus told the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise." He didn't say, "You will sleep for 2,000 years until I wake you up." Paul also said in 2 Corinthians 5:8 that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Being "present with the Lord" is not the same thing as being unconscious in a hole in the ground.
You said eternal torment is an attack on God's character. But Jesus Himself said in Matthew 25:46 that the wicked go into everlasting punishment. In Revelation 14:11 it says they have no rest day or night and the smoke of their torment ascends forever. I will take the words of Jesus over a 19th century view that tries to soften the reality of judgment.
You say her writings were only meant to direct people to the Bible. But if I study the Bible alone and conclude the Sabbath is not a requirement for Gentiles, just like the Apostles did in Acts 15, your church says I'm following a counterfeit. That proves her writings are your actual authority and the only lens you allow for interpreting the Bible.
The belief that we can serve Christ without obeying the MORAL LAW is called "Antinomianism" [which is a compound of anti - against and nomos - law]~~ The New Covenant Still Requires Obedience to God ~~
The New Covenant, while distinct in some respects from the Old Covenant, does not nullify the need for obedience. Instead, it establishes a deeper, more intimate ( Loving ) relationship with God, centered on faith, grace, and the work of the Holy Spirit.
Explanation:
- Hebrews 8:10 – “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.”
- Jeremiah 31:33 – “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
In the New Covenant, the law of God—which includes moral commandments such as the Ten Commandments—remains central, but instead of being written on tablets of stone, it is now written on the hearts and minds of believers. This transformation means that God’s law is internalized through the power of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, obedience to God is not about legalism, but about a heart that desires to follow God’s will out of love and gratitude.
2. Obedience is a Fruit of Faith in Christ
The New Covenant empowers believers to obey God through faith, but it is important to emphasize that obedience does not earn salvation—it is the result of having received the righteousness of Christ through faith.
Romans 1:5 – “By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.”
Explanation:
- Romans 16:26 – “But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.”
- John 14:15 – “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
- John 15:10 – “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.”
The New Covenant calls us to obedience—but this obedience is rooted in faith in Christ, not in self-effort or legalistic rule-keeping. Faith and obedience go hand in hand. As we believe in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for us, our love for Him compels us to keep His commandments. Obedience is a response to God’s grace, not a way to earn it.
3. Righteousness of Christ is Received by Faith
In the New Covenant, the righteousness of Christ is imputed to believers through faith. This means that our obedience is empowered by the righteousness Christ gives us, and through this righteousness, we are able to fear God and give Him glory.
Romans 3:21-22 – “But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.”
Explanation:
- Romans 5:19 – “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
- Philippians 3:9 – “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.”
The righteousness of Christ is what enables believers to stand before God with confidence, for it is not our own righteousness that saves us, but Christ’s perfect obedience. As we receive His righteousness by faith, we are empowered to obey God’s commandments, and this obedience becomes the fruit of the righteousness of Christ working in us.
4. The Fear of God and Giving Him Glory (Revelation 14:7)
The call to fear God and give Him glory is not a command to live in terror of God, but to have a reverent awe and deep respect for His holiness, justice, and love. This is the essence of true worship in the last days.
Revelation 14:7 – “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.”
Explanation:
- Ecclesiastes 12:13 – “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.”
The fear of God, in the context of Revelation 14:7, is not about fearing punishment, but about reverencing His sovereignty and worshipping Him in obedience to His commandments. As we obey God by faith, we demonstrate our fear of Him—we acknowledge His rightful authority over our lives. This obedience to His Word is what gives glory to God because it reflects His character in us.
Conclusion:
In the New Covenant, obedience to God remains crucial, but it is rooted in faith—faith in Christ’s sacrifice and His righteousness imputed to us. Obedience is not a burden, but a natural result of a heart transformed by the Holy Spirit.
In Revelation 14:7, the call to fear God and give Him glory is a call to obedient worship—worship that acknowledges His sovereignty, trusts in His righteousness, and follows His commandments out of love. The righteousness of Christ is the power that enables us to live in obedience, not through our strength, but through faith in His saving grace.
*** @vassal *** Blessed Sabbath Brother ~~~> I had planned on getting up this morning and doing a study on the argument for "Obedience to God" by adhering to "His New Testament Covenant", which so many here in the CC are misunderstanding and using as an argument for their "Religion of Disobedience", which allows them to continue in sin, and will lead them inevitable to perdition.
You beat me to it, so I'll present anyways, as it is the SAME TRUTH, just from a different perspective. Thank you for your ministry !
++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ~~ Happy Sabbath ~~ +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Many people are, in fact, Antinomians but, it is worth noting that "keeping Shabbat" is NEVER listed by the Apostles as one of the many sinful lifestyles for which a Christian will be judged I if your premise that Shabbat keeping is a universal moral command equivalent to the laws forbidding idolatry, murder, theft and sexual immorality then don't you think the Apostles, who were given the task of taking the gospel to the nations, would have explained this danger and warned their Gentile converts about it? However, though they warned believers about falling into many kinds of sin , they never mentioned "defiling Shabbat."
Examples of the warnings they DID give can be found in various passages such as:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, / nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Sure if you believe what man esteems is more valuable that what God does, suit yourself. Paul didn't Col2:8. He was a professed servant Acts1:1 which serve God how God asks Isa56:6 not left up to man to be their own god. Rom6:16KJV Paul was not God's corrector and undid God's covenant ratified at His Cross, not after Paul came along to undo everything. Hence 2Peter3:16
You keep leaving out the context
Ellen White made a statement that directly challenged the semi-Arian view some early Adventists held: “In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived” (Desire of Ages, p. 530). That means Christ’s life does not come from another source. She also called the Holy Spirit “the third person of the Godhead” (p. 671) and spoke of “three living persons of the heavenly trio” (Evangelism, p. 615). These statements are why Adventists see her writings as affirming the full divinity of Christ and the three-person Godhead.
The statement from James and R&H was about anti- Catholic view of the trinity and creeds they relied on over the Bible.
There are no commas in Scripture man adds them, so changing the comma changes the context- so I say unto you today, you will be with Me in paradise.
Did Jesus go to heaven "today" when He said that? No, He rested in His tomb, He rose on the first day back to His Fathers work and spent 40 days on earth before ascending back to heaven.
Jesus said plain Judgement is the last day John12:48
The punishment is eternal, it does not say eternal punishing, but punishment, it ends - the wages of sin is DEATH Rom6:23 not eternal punishment, those who do not believe PERSIH - they no longer exist. what kind of heaven would it be if we knew our loved ones are eternally tortured forever. This is a false teaching and a sad attack on God who is LOVE.
You claim the pioneers were just "anti-Catholic," but James White explicitly called the idea that "Jesus Christ is the eternal God" an unscriptural creed with not one passage to support it. That isn't attacking a Pope; that is attacking the nature of Christ. If Ellen White was a prophet, why did she remain silent for 50 years while the leaders of her "Remnant Church" denied the eternal divinity of Jesus?
Did I take these out of context also:
The Father was first in point of time. In the work of creation he was first in operation... The Son came next in point of time... there was a time when he did not exist." (Uriah Smith, Thoughts on the Book of Daniel and the Revelation, 1882 edition, p. 430)
"To say that the Son is as old as his Father is a palpable contradiction... it is a self-evident truth that he must have been begotten at a point in the duration of the past." (J M Stephenson, Review and Herald, Nov 14, 1854)
You say the comma is the only issue, but Jesus never used the phrase "I say to you today" in any other recorded teaching. He was promising the thief they would be together in Paradise that very day. Paul also said in 2 Corinthians 5:8 that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. If the dead are unconscious in a hole, Paul's words make no sense. For almost 2000 years every major scholar and translation has included the comma right where it’s at.
Revelation 14:11 says the lost have no rest day or night. You cannot have "no rest" if you don't exist.
If you’d like we can discuss when she said salvation is past.
Your original claim it was EGW who had this view, I showed you from her own writings that was not so. I know the background of the quotes you are posting, not from EGW you are using AI and not doing your own research. I could also research and find the background if I wanted to or use AI to do so, but its now an argument between AI- you weren't there, I wasn't there, God knows the Truth and He will sort it out in His time. We will be all accountable for everything we do/say/teach Mat5:19 and there is nothing any of us can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
The original transcript has no commas man adds those. Changing the comma changes the context
“Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.
So where does it say that Jesus went to heaven that day, when the Bible clearly states- He died, rested in His tomb, rose on the first day and did not ascend back to heaven until 40 days later. Its why we have to reconcile Scripture with Scripture.
Paul never said we go to heaven the moment we die. When we die, its like being under anesthesia- the dead know nothing Ecc9:5 they do not praise the LORD Psa115:17 so if they know nothing and not praising the LORD how is that paradise. From the moment we die our next conscious thought will be to the resurrection of the LORD. He said Judgement is the LAST DAY John12:48 this is Jesus speaking Paul does not correct Jesus.
Some to eternal life, so to the second death (permeant)
1 Thess 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, (dead) lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Rev 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Its saying the punishment is permanent. Those who have worshipped the beast and not entered into Christ rest though faith Heb4:2 those who enter also rest from their works as God did Heb8:10 on the seventh day Heb4:4 Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3 compared to God's saints Rev14:12 who worship God our Creator Rev14:7 Exo20:11.
For example:
Isa 34: 9 Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.
Is Edom still burning somewhere forever and ever. No, its saying the punishment lasts, not an eternal punishing.
Debating AI is not fruitful, AI can show a completely different argument, so I am going to leave you to it and agree to disagree, God will sort everything out in His own time.
All of her writings are online. I don’t see the issue in using AI to search through her writings. I’m definitely not going to and don’t have to read the 100,000 pages of stuff she wrote just as I don’t have to read the Book of Mormon to figure out Joseph Smith was also a false prophet. Using AI also lets you see the older qoutes that have been removed or edited from the archive to hide some of embarrassing claims. Whether it was her view or not, she as the so-called prophet, did nothing to correct the leaders of the church for 50 years. I know it’s probably hard to accept but she is a false prophet. She used her position in the church to pass off her own personal views as if they were messages from God. That is heresy. And the fact that you only view scripture through her interpretation means that yes you are giving her authority.
I think your three prooftexts need to be understood in light of the five point elaboration I posted in order to be more clear,
because Jesus also said that satisfying GRFS via obeying the OC commandments/law has been superseded by the NC/Gospel
(per Heb. 7:11-10:1), which is:
- There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who loves sinful humanity (Rom. 5:6-8, John 3:16) and who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
- Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
- Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
- Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
- Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love (DL) as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).
no it is the reverse, all Must be examined in the light of of through the lens of what Christ words who was given all authority in heaven and earth period, it is also by His words that we shall be judged.
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Mat 19:17)
Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say? (Luke 6:46)
I think it is very clear!
Do not deny that Jesus spent quite some time during his ministry to teach the and proper applications of the commandments , all ten of them. and gave us the example to follow, No one can deny this.
It was already sorted out by the apostle Paul.
Gentiles were never under the law and never will be.
Gentiles were not the covenant people.
Israel was commanded to obey the sabbath not the Gentiles.