Was sin forgiven the moment Christ died on the cross, or was it after he was raised on the third day? I've seen scripture supporting both sides of this argument.
Which view do you hold?
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Either way, the blood of Jesus covered our sins. In my opinion, the sins were forgiven at the moment of the death of Jesus on the cross.
He died for our sin 1Cor.15:3
Just before he died He said "it is finished" Jn.19:30
So the consequences of sin (ie.death) was fully dealt with on the Cross.
In regards to being forgiven, that occurs when we believe in Christ for there is no other name in which there is forgiveness of sin and therefore requires our response to the Gospel for effectiveness. The Gospel is the power of salvation Rom.1:16 hence, according to 1 Cor. it is both the Cross and the resurrection that enables salvation and only by believing the Gospel can one enter into the forgiveness that is in Christ. Anyone who rejects the Gospel remains dead in their sin and without forgiveness. Jn.8:24
1Cor.15:3-4
3For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
The ONE who made Adam in the Garden, was put to death to pay for all past, present and future sins BUT, and there is always a but, to have Christ's death pay your debt for your personal sins you must repent, you must admit you are a sinner which means you have and still are transgressing the Holy Righteous Law of God --- the same exact Law Christ kept with out one transgression and commit your life to growing into the perfection of Jesus Christ. allowing the Father to develop His divine Holy Righteous sinless Nature in you.
yes, baptism is also required, burying the old sinful self in a watery grave
God wants actions not words
Given that both are in the past, I think the question is irrelevant.
Disagree. Christ's death on the Cross dealt with everyone's sins whether they repent or not. Our believing in Christ (specifically the Gospel) is what places us into that place of Holiness (which is Christ) by the grace of God whereby we can work out the salvation He has given us and grow to maturity, the full stature of Christ.
God got action, in Christ. It is His action on the Cross that is the only effective means by which our sins are dealt with. Believe it or not.
He endured for the glory .....he died to give us forgiveness...he rose to give us hope.
On the cross, at the moment the curtain was torn. That was the turning point. The Resurrection then has definitively conquered death.
Tall_Timbers
Well-known member
His death was the sacrifice for sin, not his rising. As for sin being forgiven, that happens at a different time as individuals come to believe.
Don't you have to repent to receive God's forgiveness?
6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”
Matthew 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
Repent or Perish
Luke 13:1 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”
Matthew 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
Romans 4v25 He was delivered for our offences and raised for our Justification.
Jesus took ownership of all sin on the cross.
Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Because of this ownership, forgiveness can be offered to all. However, it is only applied to someone when he trusts in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus in payment for his sins.
Col_2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Because of this ownership, forgiveness can be offered to all. However, it is only applied to someone when he trusts in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus in payment for his sins.
Col_2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
I choose to believe Christ and His 13 apostles -- repentance is mandatory
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
the Father calls those HE chooses to follow Christ -- and the Chosen must repent from dead works i.e. sin and go on into the perfection of Jesus Christ. In Christ there was no sin which is transgress of the LAW/Torah
My Father has been bringing me into the perfection of Christ for decades -- not there yet -- but looking back on my old sinful self -- I do not want a single person as I was back then-- very sinful--- to be in the kingdom
if a person refuses to repent from sin, refuses to stop sinning --they will never enter the Family of God. Thank God!!!
folks that want to be accepted "Just as they are" have not been called by THE Father.
How can this be ignored and it is --- 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
those that sin are never to be in the Kingdom --again Thank God!!
15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
another quote from Jesus Christ that the MANY refuse to heed,
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Note the foreshadow as seen in the OT tabernacle: The high priest entered the Holy of Holies to sprinkle blood from a bull and a goat to atone for sins. The blood covered the mercy seat (the lid of the Ark of the Covenant) to make atonement for the sins and impurities of Israel. (Lev. 16)
Heb 9:11-12 reveals Jesus entered the Holy Place by His own blood...
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Consider as well that Jesus had not ascended to the Father prior to being seen by Mary after His resurrection. This indicates the blood had not actually been poured upon the mercy seat up until that point.
John 20:17-18
Jesus saith unto her (Mary), Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Jesus' sacrifice paid the penalty for the sin of all mankind at that point. And according to the message the Apostle Peter presented at Pentecost, all must obey the commands given in order to take hold of what Jesus died to provide. (Acts2:4-42)
"Consider as well that Jesus had not ascended to the Father prior to being seen by Mary after His resurrection. This indicates the blood had not actually been poured upon the mercy seat up until that point."
it is only fresh blood that is poured on the Mercy Seat, which causes a question, how did it get on the Mercy Seat, who poured it and where was or is that Mercy Seat??
Have you ever seen this?? This to me is very plausible. Everything pointing to Christ done in the Temple must be fulfilled,
Note: The reference to the holy place in Hebrews pertains to the true tabernacle which scripture reveals is in Heaven.
- Hebrews 8:5: States Moses was instructed to make the earthly tabernacle according to the pattern shown to him, confirming the original exists in heaven.
- Hebrews 9:11-12, 24: Mentions Jesus entering the "greater and more perfect tabernacle" which is not made with human hands, specifically identifying this as "heaven itself".
- Revelation 11:19: Describes "the temple of God which is in heaven" opening to reveal the ark of the covenant.
- Revelation 15:5: Explicitly refers to "the temple of the tabernacle of testimony in heaven".
- These passages contrast the temporary, earthly, man-made structure of Moses with the eternal, spiritual sanctuary in heaven.
"But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb. 9:11-12
If makes sense that Jesus didn't want to be touched prior to entering the heavenly holy place and fulfilling His duties as our High Priest.
I just posted this in another thread. Seems relevant here.
In my opinion, we need a more complete view of God’s intent for man in order to know how much emphasis one needs to put upon all questions related to sin.
1. The price for sin was paid from the foundation of the earth.
In the Book of Job, God questions Job about his part in creation:
“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?”
Paul tells us that all of creation was formed in Christ and through Christ for His purposes.
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.”
John, in the Book of Revelation, tells us that the Lamb of God, Christ, was slain from the foundation of the world.
“..written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
This tells us several things: 1) that the price for sin was paid BEFORE the first sin was committed and 2) God created Adam knowing he would sin.
Somewhere along the line the church made “sin” a major topic of religion. Whereas God in His wisdom, answered the question of sin before man even showed up. In fact, the template for all creation, because everything was made by and through Christ the Son, includes man’s full redemption back to God’s original intent.
Now, certainly we should not sin. Don’t say I’m saying otherwise. Don’t sin. But, in the New Testament, there is great emphasis on counting God’s redemption of man so complete, that believers had to be reminded to not, in God’s grace, live as they used to live. THIS is why Paul, and Peter, and John wrote about not sinning or continuing in the lifestyle from which people were rescued.
The remedy for sin is quite plain and simple: “Confess your sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” To carry it further, one can then “..believe in Him whom He sent, because “that us the work of God.”
And this is not just for the forgiveness of sin, but for the redemption of man BACK to God’s original intent: to be son of God in Christ Jesus the Lord. This is “eternal life”: “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” This life is “eternal” because it originates with God who is eternal. A condition of “eternal life” is that it never passes away.
My point: eternal life is one of the unseen things Christ created by and through Him before man ever showed up, before Adam sinned. Such life is secured in Him and by His life; the life that He gave up for us from the foundation of the world. This is the unshakable assurance of His ability to fully redeem us for His purposes.
In my opinion, we need a more complete view of God’s intent for man in order to know how much emphasis one needs to put upon all questions related to sin.
1. The price for sin was paid from the foundation of the earth.
In the Book of Job, God questions Job about his part in creation:
“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?”
Paul tells us that all of creation was formed in Christ and through Christ for His purposes.
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.”
John, in the Book of Revelation, tells us that the Lamb of God, Christ, was slain from the foundation of the world.
“..written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
This tells us several things: 1) that the price for sin was paid BEFORE the first sin was committed and 2) God created Adam knowing he would sin.
Somewhere along the line the church made “sin” a major topic of religion. Whereas God in His wisdom, answered the question of sin before man even showed up. In fact, the template for all creation, because everything was made by and through Christ the Son, includes man’s full redemption back to God’s original intent.
Now, certainly we should not sin. Don’t say I’m saying otherwise. Don’t sin. But, in the New Testament, there is great emphasis on counting God’s redemption of man so complete, that believers had to be reminded to not, in God’s grace, live as they used to live. THIS is why Paul, and Peter, and John wrote about not sinning or continuing in the lifestyle from which people were rescued.
The remedy for sin is quite plain and simple: “Confess your sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” To carry it further, one can then “..believe in Him whom He sent, because “that us the work of God.”
And this is not just for the forgiveness of sin, but for the redemption of man BACK to God’s original intent: to be son of God in Christ Jesus the Lord. This is “eternal life”: “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” This life is “eternal” because it originates with God who is eternal. A condition of “eternal life” is that it never passes away.
My point: eternal life is one of the unseen things Christ created by and through Him before man ever showed up, before Adam sinned. Such life is secured in Him and by His life; the life that He gave up for us from the foundation of the world. This is the unshakable assurance of His ability to fully redeem us for His purposes.
Colossians 1 v 21-22 Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence.
So you think Christ needed you to repent for Him to fulfill His mission on the Cross?
Tell it to the judge.