Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

[GWH]

There are some who cannot bear the thought that salvation does not depend on us at all. Salvation is of our God. It is of God that we are in Christ Jesus. If God puts into Christ, who can take us out? For sure we can lose the benefits and even the appearance of being saved. But those who are born again cannot be unborn again. Eternal life is just that, eternal.

Actually, Jesus came both to make dead people alive and to make bad people good
via sharing His righteousness and cooperating with His HS.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

God’s word is always alive and active.

Yes, and Does Teach A Permanent Eternal Salvation Of The Great God And Saviour!:

But that does not mean we should assume that the person who hears His word and receives it cannot perish.

Correct, Never 'assume' anything, But Always study The Vast Multitude of Scriptures Of
Truth!:

Because Of God's Own All-Sufficient BLOOD Shed For The Body Of Christ, In Grace,
Today, we Have The Following "Profitable" Scriptures Concerning His Eternal Salvation
Which Is, In Biblical Fact, "in view" In God's Revelation Of The Mystery!:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

If God's All-Sufficient BLOOD is insufficient for some, isn't that the reason they
assume they "can lose" God's Eternal Salvation?

Just wondering... Amen!

 

[RedLetterJoe]

I once believed in eternal security. Serious bible study led me to change my position. Not long after, I fell away from Christ. I am in no way implying causation, but I do find it curious.

Eventually Christ would leave the 99 and come searching for this lost sheep to bring me home.

I now have no doubt in eternal security.
Having experienced the perseverance of the saints first hand.

I was never in danger of losing my salvation. Christ is my Salvation. And He promised to never leave me nor forsake me. All that time I thought I was running from God. The truth is, He was carrying me in His arms.

Christ keeps His promises, even when I don't.

I think the problem for many when it comes to discerning this topic, is that as humans, we tend to think linearly. But God is outside of time and knows the beginning from the end. Or in other words, "the plans He has for us."

 

[Genez]

How can God save you from all your sins?
Only to later on, lose you, because of some sin?

How can the Father give you to the Son as a gift?
Only to take it back, because the gift became defective???
God did not know that you would become defective when He handed you to the Son as a Gift????

Some people here are still very dumb about Who and what God is!
Salvation is really about who and what God is! Not us!

To see us able to lose our salvation is to see God as a man.
As you would be, if you were God.

 

[GWH]

I once believed in eternal security. Serious bible study led me to change my position. Not long after, I fell away from Christ. I am in no way implying causation, but I do find it curious.

Eventually Christ would leave the 99 and come searching for this lost sheep to bring me home.

I now have no doubt in eternal security.
Having experienced the perseverance of the saints first hand.

I was never in danger of losing my salvation. Christ is my Salvation. And He promised to never leave me nor forsake me. All that time I thought I was running from God. The truth is, He was carrying me in His arms.

Christ keeps His promises, even when I don't.

I think the problem for many when it comes to discerning this topic, is that as humans, we tend to think linearly. But God is outside of time and knows the beginning from the end. Or in other words, "the plans He has for us."

Your experience was a case of being prodigal (falling away) rather than apostate (repudiating saving faith).
Understanding the need to persevere should have prevented you from becoming prodigal, so why didn't it?

 

[Genez]

The reason we are to PERSEVERE?

Because the Devil will be resisting our spiritual growth potential as we pursue our learning of the Bible.
We are not to persevere to the end of our life.
That kind of perseverance has to do with those who must persevere to the end of the Tribulation while on earth.
Persevere for only seven years!

We in the church age?
We are to persevere for a season only until the need to persevere disappears!

Submit yourselves, then, to God. ​

Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. ​

​

James 4:7​

 

[Kroogz]

They have found seed in the Egptian pyramids that still germinates today. One might call those seeds imperishable. But the plants that come from those seeds can still get diseased and die.

God’s word is always alive and active. But that does not mean we should assume that the person who hears His word and receives it cannot perish. Some imperishable seed fell on the path, some on stony ground, some among thorns and thistles, and some in good soil. Were none of the plants that came from those imperishable seeds able to perish?

You can try to squeeze death into your salvation all you want. But, death is what believers are saved from.

Live in limbo if you like.......It's not the predestined plan of God though. VICTORY And HIS HIGHEST and BEST is His plan for you......Not fear,guilt,worry and loss of ETERNAL LIFE.

Sad that believers live in this limbo, SHAME on believers for teaching that eternal life is in question.

 

[Kroogz]

Is saving faith instantaneous and permanent?

Only a loss/forfeit/walk away of/from salvation believer would ask this question.

If we can lose eternal life.....The Lord Jesus Christ could lose eternal life.

Col 3:33~~For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

You guys need to focus on the SON and not SELF.......

Focus on the creature?.......Quicksand and Possible/potential loss of salvation.

Focus on the Creator?......ROCK solid foundation that will never move.

 

[RedLetterJoe]

You can try to squeeze death into your salvation all you want. But, death is what believers are saved from.

Live in limbo if you like.......It's not the predestined plan of God though. VICTORY And HIS HIGHEST and BEST is His plan for you......Not fear,guilt,worry and loss of ETERNAL LIFE.

Sad that believers live in this limbo, SHAME on believers for teaching that eternal life is in question.

Assurance of salvation, or Christ's finished work, contrary to what many have claimed here, is the single largest factor inspiring me to live a life pleasing to my Father.

He loves me, I love Him back.

I think I know why this is so hard for some to believe, but I'll keep those thoughts to myself.

 

[PaulThomson]

VICTORY And HIS HIGHEST and BEST is His plan for you......Not fear,guilt,worry and loss of ETERNAL LIFE.

I agree.

 

[Genez]

You can try to squeeze death into your salvation all you want. But, death is what believers are saved from.

Live in limbo if you like.......It's not the predestined plan of God though. VICTORY And HIS HIGHEST and BEST is His plan for you......Not fear,guilt,worry and loss of ETERNAL LIFE.

Sad that believers live in this limbo, SHAME on believers for teaching that eternal life is in question.

Saying having been given entrance into eternal life, can be lost, is an oxymoron.

It is like saying water can be burned.

Eternal life, which has no beginning? And no end?
Can have an end?

 

[Kroogz]

Saying having been given entrance into eternal life, can be lost, is an oxymoron.

It is like saying water can be burned.

Eternal life, which has no beginning? And no end?
Can have an end?

Exactly. Eternal life. The very meaning gives us total assurance.

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes, and Does Teach A Permanent Eternal Salvation Of The Great God And Saviour!:

Correct, Never 'assume' anything, But Always study The Vast Multitude of Scriptures Of
Truth!:

Because Of God's Own All-Sufficient BLOOD Shed For The Body Of Christ, In Grace,
Today, we Have The Following "Profitable" Scriptures Concerning His Eternal Salvation
Which Is, In Biblical Fact, "in view" In God's Revelation Of The Mystery!:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

If God's All-Sufficient BLOOD is insufficient for some, isn't that the reason they
assume they "can lose" God's Eternal Salvation?

Just wondering... Amen!

Your opinions are duly noted, but are not logically derived from the words God transmitted to us in scripture. They require one to read "eternal security" into texts in order to find it in those texts. I try to avoid making adamant claims based on eisegesis.

 

[PaulThomson]

Eternal life, which has no beginning?

So, do you think that because you have aeonous life (zOE aiOnios) which began for you when you believed in Jesus Christ , that your life had no beginning? Are you without beginning or end?

 

[PaulThomson]

God has put in place everything necessary for man to realise that He exists. The gospel is preached by creation! If people reject what is before their very eyes, then reject the eyewitness testimony of the disciples recorded in then Bible, God holds them responsible. It is not that men cannot believe. It is wilful. And that results in the Great White throne judgement and the second death.

Lord Jesus died to save mankind. It's historical fact. Yet many still refuse to accept. Jesus died and rose again in public. It was common knowledge. People still did not believe. And people now still reject Christ. Everyone dies and everyone is judged, either as saint or sinner. Sinners remain dead in trespass and sin in the next life. Nowhere in God's word does it say that the dead get another chance.

1Pe 3:18
¶For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[Kroogz]

I try to avoid making adamant claims based on eisegesis.

Loss of salvation, forfeit of salvation, walk away from salvation CANNOT make adamant claims.......Constant limbo.

You do not know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:13~~These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

Colossians 1:13
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I tell you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 5:24 is an implicit invitation to take hold of all that The Lord Jesus provides....... You have eternal life. Will not come under judgement. And have crossed over from death to LIFE.

You can ADAMANTLY make these claims as a believer in The Lord Jesus Christ........What do you truly believe if you cannot take hold of these promises?

 

[GWH]

Only a loss/forfeit/walk away of/from salvation believer would ask this question.

If we can lose eternal life.....The Lord Jesus Christ could lose eternal life.

Col 3:33~~For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

You guys need to focus on the SON and not SELF.......

Focus on the creature?.......Quicksand and Possible/potential loss of salvation.

Focus on the Creator?......ROCK solid foundation that will never move.

Regarding the question, "Is saving faith instantaneous and permanent?",
you only accidentally losing salvation, which is not the issue.

The astute will know that salvation can be intentionally repudiated per GW: Heb. 6:4-6, Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2,
Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10.

 

[Gideon300]

1Pe 3:18
¶For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The gospel was preached to those who had no opportunity to hear it before Lord Jesus came to the earth.

 

[WiselyWoven]

those who expect salvation by any other means than being faithful....not just claiming belief...but actually deploying their faith in service to those Jesus came to save will be saved. Just claiming a "mental assent" or "momentary salvation" as salvation is destroyed in these two example from Jesus. We claim ....Just believe and be saved. Jesus in two lengthy examples demonstrates if your faith claim is just that, just a claim, then God has a place prepared for you. God through Jesus came to find servants not dogma believers.

"Eternal Security" is also known as OSAS ("Once Saved Always Saved,), or "perseverance of the saints." In other words, once someone accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, there is nothing that he or she can do to separate himself/herself from God, and they will always be saved. This is a false doctrine. Dozens of passages show, without any doubt, that those who believe in Christ can fall away if they do not practice righteousness.

Parable of sower:

Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13), "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away."

Fallen from grace passage:

Galatians 5:4, "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

Pruning passages:

John 15:5-6, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
Romans, 11:19-23, "You will say then, Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again."

Hebrews Passages:

Hebrews 6:4-6, "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."
Hebrews 10:26-27, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."
Hebrews 10:38-39, "Now the just shall live by faith: ; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul."

Doctrinal Apostasy passages:

Acts 20:17,28-30, "And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church...I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them."
1 Timothy 1:18-21, "fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander"
2 Timothy 2:16-18, "But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some."
1 Timothy 4:1, "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"
1 Timothy 6:20-21, "O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called knowledge-which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith."
2 Peter 2:1, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."
2 Peter 3:17, "You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness."
2 John 8-9 "Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son."

Moral Apostasy passages:

1 Timothy 6:9-10, "But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang."
2 Peter 2:20-22, "For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, A dog returns to its own vomit, and a sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
James 5:19-20, "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins."

Revelation passages:

Revelation 2:4-5, "'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 'Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place-unless you repent."
Revelation 3:5, 'He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels."
Revelation 3:16-17, "So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 'Because you say, I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing, and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked."

Old Testament passages:

Ezekiel 18:24-26, "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die."

The fact the Bible exhorts to faithfulness proves one can be lost:

1. be "stedfast, unmoveable" (1 Corinthians 15:58).
2. "For if these things be in you" (2 Peter 1:5-11).
3. "we shall reap, if we faint not" (Galatians 6:9).
4. "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Revelation 2:10).
5. practice these things and God will be with you (Philippians 4:9).

Man has a free will:

Joshua 24:15, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

The Bible clearly prophesied some would fall away:

Acts 20:28, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

 

[Gideon300]

Actually, Jesus came both to make dead people alive and to make bad people good
via sharing His righteousness and cooperating with His HS.

To be precise, Lord Jesus kills the old man and raises him up to be a new creation. He does not change anyone. So no, I disagree with your interpretation. The old nature is utterly unwilling to cooperate with the Holy Spirit. People like to repair and restore things. God rejects that approach as He knows that it does not work. He terminates the old and replaces it with the new. Galatians 2:20