False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture
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Well, what you wrote seemed to disagree with me saying that nature is created by Supernature and thus is actually an ongoing miracle.
I receive this insight by pondering the meaning of Paul's statement in Rom. 1:20.
Also, ponder the fact that atheists want you to believe the universe is merely natural.
The natural world is not an ongoing supernatural event.
God created this world with its natural laws and this world follows these laws.
Natural laws such as gravity, time and even death follow these natural laws.
When Jesus walked on water or raised Lazarus He broke these natural laws by supernatural means.
If the natural world is supernatural (as you have stated) then Jesus did nothing special.
Supernatural and natural are a duality, one cannot exist without the other.
IOW, there is no up if there is no down.
Yes, but God created and sustains so-called natural laws!
Nature is special, but not independent of God, because God is omnipresent (Acts 17:24-28, Psa. 139:7).
It all depends on the context, as election does refer to salvation in some passages of scripture and it refers to service in others. So it's not a one size fits all word, in the bible.
No, I follow the teachings of the Lord Jesus and if the Church fathers teach anything contrary to what the Lord Jesus taught, then we need to call them out for it.
No man has the authority to decide what the bible is saying, because the bible interprits the bible. And if the bible seems to contradict itself, then it means that our understanding or interpritation of it is wrong.
The Lord Jesus taught OSAS, and that's good enough for me.
That's a wonderful philosophy you have there, too bad none of it is biblical.
The bible revelas the truth, you reckon "a transgressor seeks the salvation of Jesus". But that's not true, because Gods Word reveals that nobody seeks salvation, and the only thing we seek is to fulfill our lust and sinful desires.
John 8:29 doesn't apply to any man, it only applies to God the Son. God never sent you or me, that's why we don't do His will. We were concieved in sin and that's why we inherited our sin nature from our parents.
And John 1:13 conforms what I'm trying to say, that being that there in nothing good in man, as such it is impossible for us to do Gods will or to please Him in any way. As the verse declares that it is God who works through His people, to will and to do. That must mean that we are unwilling and unable to do any good of our own.
You have failed to distinguish between a saved sinner and an unsaved sinner. Both will sin every day for the rest of their lives, as there is no way to stop sinning in this life.
I can't summarise the difference between the two in a breif way, without teaching the you the fundamentals first and I just don't have the time and I don't think you'd be willing to learn something new.
There are many examples in the bible where born again believers commit sins such as murder and adultery. God doesn't go back on His promise to save those who believe. Paul described the reality of luiving as a born again Christians when he said that he is overwhelmed by his will to do evil, he tries to resist it but it's more powerful than his will to do good.
I'm just like the apostle Paul and King David, they didn't pretend to be nice guys like you. They admitted the awful truth and God is always ready and willing to forgive those of us who ask.
The context and exegesis confirm that salvation is NOT unconditional election.
True. the god of this world blinds people to believing the gospel of salvation from sinning, and only doing good in Christ Jesus.
Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.
1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
The false light of that god's own gospel, is being justified by faith alone with continued sinning and evil works:
2Co 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Mat 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
The eye that still looks to doing evil, and not only good, sees a light to justify doing both good and evil, in justification by faith alone apart from works.
That's half true, and it may be acceptable to you but it's unacceptable to those of us who demand the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
"John 15:16 You did not choose Me but I chose you", you are forced to deny Gods Word, in order to hold to the "works based election" version of the gospel.
Is this your understanding of the gospel?
Nothing more than the acceptance of our fate?
If our actions have no bearing on our fate, what is the point of the Bible?
Why warn mankind of its fated doom if we are unable to alter it?
Did James say justified by works, and not by faith only?
Thanks for the classic example of separating Scripture from Scripture. Faith alone Christians have mastered it more than any other Christian sect, bar none.
In James 2:26, James said that faith apart from works is dead. Hence, apart from works.
Thanks again.
James says no man is saved by faith alone.
No apostle ever says man is saved by faith alone.
Apart from the boastful merit of man's works without Christ.
Not apart from the glorifying works through Christ.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
What works are those that are not with imputed righteousness of faith? Those works of iniquity by sinners before faith on Jesus Christ.
Imputed righteousness and justification only exclude those works, not all works.
Rom 4:1
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
The same for that time when Abraham was not justified by works, not all works at any time, when Abraham was justified by works.
Jas 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Different works at different times are excluded from God's imputed righteousness and justification, not all works at all times.
The repented saints know the difference of works before faith in Jesus Christ, and later works of faith with Jesus Christ: Entirely different works from different times, from all old to all new:
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
Scripture excludes all old works without Christ, and only justifies new works in Christ Jesus.
Unrepented sinners don't know the difference of works, and so change Scripture to make all works the same at all times, and none of which justify them with God: being the same old sinful works of iniquity.
Their unrepented works remain the same before and after having their own faith alone, because they repent not to have the faith of Jesus Christ, and only do His new good new works.
Jesus Christ's own new good works are not excluded from His own justification.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
1Thes 41
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
No man is ever saved nor justified by faith alone without any works, but only by faith in Jesus Christ without those old sinful works at that time before believing on Him that justifies the ungodly unto the godly.
Hence justification by faith alone apart from works, cannot justify any man by faith not apart from works.
Dysfunctional justification apart from works by dead faith alone: Faith alone can't also justify anyone having works with their faith.
Either a person is justified by his faith alone without works, or is justified by his faith with works. Not both: Faith alone cannot be with works.
Either a person has OSAS justification by faith alone without works, or Scriptures' justification by faith with works. Not both: Faith alone cannot justify with works...
Amen. And so imputed righteousness without works, is without works of our own righteousness, not without works of God's righteousness as Abraham:
Jas 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Imputed righteousness and justification are not with those old works at that time without Christ, but only with the new works at this time through Christ.
Rom 4:1
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
At that time Abraham was not justified by works of the flesh.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Imputed righteousness and justification only exclude those works at that time, not all works at all times. Unless of course, all works at all times are sinful works of iniquity.
Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Or, the one man Jesus Christ with all works at all times good and pleasing to God:
Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
1Th 4:1
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
Repented saints now at this time, only do these works that please God by Jesus Christ.
Unrepented OSAS Christians as at that time, still do those works that displease God by their faith alone.
imputed righteousness is through faith in Jesus Christ, specifically being without works before faith in Jesus Christ.
In general, not all works are justified by God, because not all works are the same: Those past works without Christ, vs these present works with Christ.
Changing context of scripture, in order to generalize all works the same, and being unjustified, is the false gospel of OSAS faith alone justification, with the same old unjustified works unrepented.
Unrepented OSAS faith alone Christians do have all their works generally the same: Sins and iniquities.
Repented saints with the faith of Jesus do not have the same old works without God, but only have their new works with Jesus Christ.
OSAS Christians preach all their works are the same, and do not justify them with God, because all their works are still the same, and still do not justify them with God, nor by their faith alone;
Titus{3:4}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
All works before faith in Jesus Christ, are unrighteous to God. Man's own righteousness done with Christ, is not God's righteousness done through Jesus Christ.
Seeking to generalize all works the same, and unjustified, is only by unrepented sinners whose own works are still the same: Sins and iniquities.
Which are those works exclude by imputed righteousness and justification with God:
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Faith in one's own righteousness is by faith alone, not by works of righteousness, that are still one's own.
1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John{2:29}
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.
Only those doing righteousness of God, are the righteous sons born of God. Imputed righteousness does not exclude doing righteousness.
Only those unrighteous works of men's own faith alone, are excluded from the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ.
Who do not practice faith alone, which is not possible, else faith is not alone, being with works.
Dysfunction of faith alone justification without works: That faith can't be practiced nor lived by.
Hab 2:4
For the just shall live by his faith.
James{1:22}
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Only those living by faith and doing the word of God, are the justified of God. Which is not possible by a faith that cannot have any works, being alone...
Only when preached with faith being alone, and is alive to save.
But preaching openly against scripture doesn't trip up the faithful, but only the foolish:
Rom 16:18
And by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
So, now you've departed from preaching faith alone justification apart from any works, to preaching the gospel of faith in Jesus Christ alone, apart from evil works.
True. No works at any time without Jesus' faith, save or justify the person. Whether it be the unbelieving heathen, or them that turn back to works without faith:
Heb 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Those works done without faith in Jesus Christ cannot justify any soul.
Only good works in Christ Jesus are with faith to save and justify the soul.
True. Even as the living seed is in the fruit, and not the dead ground alone, so also living faith is in the works, not in the dead soul alone.
Hence, faith without works is dead, being alone.
Correct again. There is dead faith alone without works, and also dead works alone without faith.
The life is in the faith, that is in the works. The seed not in any fruit, is dead being alone.
Of course not. Dead faith does not produce works, even as the dead seed is not in any fruit.
Only living faith is in works alive to God and man.
??? A dead fruit tree does not produce fruit as a living true that does have fruit. One is dead without fruit, and the other is alive with fruit.
The only way to be a dead fruit tree, is a living tree that has died: Works ceasing to be of faith become dead works to God.
Rev 2:4
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Saved believers by faith in Jesus Christ only have living works through Christ. Turning from faith and love of God from the heart, leaves only dead works of a dark candlestick.
We are not saved by works done in unrightrousness before faith or by works done in righteousness after faith.
We are not saved by works in general. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 11:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
Amen!
You remain confused.
Believers practice righteousness BECAUSE they are righteous and not in order to become righteous.
Imputed righteousness (cause) precedes doing righteousness. (effect)
Word salad of confusion.
Faith does not remain alone (barren of works) yet we are still saved through faith at its origin (Ephesians 2:5-9) and good works follow. (Ephesians 2:10)
There is nothing dysfunctional about faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation which justifies. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (and works? NO. Hence, faith alone) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
After being saved/justified by faith we then live by faith. (Galatians 2:20)
Only those who have been justified by faith/saved afterwards live by faith, are doers of the word, produce works.
You still do not understand the difference between faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14-20)
Stop getting tripped up by your own foolishness.
Stop your profane and vain babblings.
It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
Justified by works (James 2:21, 24) means shown to be righteous and not accounted as righteous. (Romans 4:2-6)
We are saved FOR good works but not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
The source of life in faith is not works, rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
Faith that remains barren of works demonstrates that it's dead.
Bare profession of faith.
We are made alive together with Christ by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:5-8) SOURCE OF LIFE then good works follow being created in Christ Jesus FOR good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Don't get the cart before the horse.
Dead faith cannot produce good works, just like a dead tree cannot produce good fruit.
Only living faith produces works.
It takes a living tree to produce fruit. Try not to over think this.
If a fruit tree was never firmly rooted and established when planted then it was dead from the start and it's the same with faith. James is talking about a bare profession of faith that produces no works and not works ceasing to be of faith. Once again. Stop trying to over think this.
In regard to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, clearly the Lord wanted the church at Ephesus to repent -- to change their minds regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus. In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for love.
So, what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lamp stand (candlestick) if the church in Ephesus did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church at Ephesus will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) in which the vast majority of Turkey is Islam. Go figure.
There's a good reason why the word "fate" is not in the bible. Salvation is not a celestial lottery, where only the wise are able to connect the dots and claim the prize.
God doesn't save anyone, as a result of their obedience or good works. I wasn't seeking God, but He drew me to Himself against my will.
We can't do anything to make God save us, our actions have no baring on Gods election. The Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing the (non elect), so it's not for them.
You're right, it is pointless to warn fallen men of their pending doom because they think you're fool for believing such trash.