Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?
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The Holy Spirit was with the disciples before, but did not indwell them until after Jesus’ resurrection.
This is the verse:There is no specific Scripture verse that names Judas Iscariot personally healing a specific individual. They were sent
out in twos, given the power to heal and cast out demons, but we are not specifically told Judas did any of that.
Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe. That was in reference to Judas. I know you know this
Mark 6:7-13
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles
7 And he called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. 8 He charged them to take nothing for their journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in their belts— 9 but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics. 10 And he said to them, “Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you depart from there. 11 And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.” 12 So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent. 13 And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them.There is no reference to Judas being singled out as not doing what Jesus commanded them to do. I know you know this.
This is why Judas is troubling for many people....
But Just like Peter's faith and or his fear really was not relevant towards his ability to walk on top of the water....(I know exactly what the scriptures say about Peter's fear concerning the waves....but his lack of fear wasn't exactly keeping him afloat either)
What Judas believed or didn't believe about Jesus was not relevant about having the ability to heal.
Because these "powers" and "abilities" are not really ours....they never were and cannot be ever "ours."
These are God's....
These things are going to be done with us or without us. Of course we prefer with us....but WE really don't matter now do we?
We, the believing ones, are not needed. We are simply desired. This is a huge difference in attitude. God has never needed me for anything. And I consider him a bit crazy for desiring me. (Nother subject).
But....it equally addresses what the difference was between Peter(who denied Jesus several times due to fear) and Judas who betrayed Jesus to the Temple Priests and Guards.
Judas knew Jesus was God's son....and he believed that God would never allow his son to suffer or even sacrifice his son....just like Judas couldn't be bothered to sacrifice his wants and needs by helping himself to the money bag. And God would instantly institute the Heavenly Kingdom here on Earth and the Apostles all would have important jobs and positions in God's kingdom. So betraying Jesus this way would instantly elevate everyone and righteousness would reign.
But that's not the love God has for us....the kind of love God has is much much stronger. It's sacrificial.and willing to suffer....unlike Judas's love which is self serving and weak.
And that's VERY scarey for a lot of people. Especially ones going through the motions will less than pure motives.
Lord, Lord!.....
Away from me you doers of iniquity.
But we have brought many to saving faith and got many people to give up unclean habits like whoring, drinking, gambling, and drugs.
I NEVER knew you!
That's why it's scarey..................very very scarey when you are not sure about that narrow path.
I don't know if you're answering in coordination to the Matthew 7 comment but they also healed, did miracles, and cast out demons but clearly since Yeshua mentioned them doing it in Jesus Name means the Holy Spirit was not with them but had to be indwelling them for them to be able to perform such things.
But to your post show me anywhere else in the Bible that the Holy Spirit was with someone not Saved because there's no such example. And yet the Holy Spirit was with Judas during the 2x2 expedition.
Saul, David, the prophets, etc. Perhaps you aren’t familiar with the OT.
King Saul especially...."Is Saul with the prophets?" And he was taking off his robe.
And
Egyptian.population before the Israelites escaped....
It helps when you know a LOT of scripture.
David always had the Holy Spirit since Samuel anointed him with that horn of oil.....didn't mean that David was sinless or Holy minded all the time.
(Uriah's wife Bathsheeba)
BUT more importantly....
Great minds think alike and you just barely beat me. Ha!
I'm very familiar with the Tanakh but I said because the discussion is about the salvation of Judas that the Holy Spirit would not help him at that moment of doing miracles if he was already condemned.
Yes, that is my point that when Saul was anointed at that time he was good with God just like Judas was at the time he was given the same power as the others.
No...
Saul was NOT good...he was busy trying to kill David. LOL
Give up on your narrative already...
It's wrong....you were mistaken. It's not the end of the world as you know it. The apocalypse is not happening because you were wrong. It's just a mistake....happens to the best of us....because we are HUMAN and born into sin by DNA and a deceitfully wicked heart.
So....
Take the information (do NOT DOUBLE DOWN) and move forward.
If you double down we laugh at you and relegate you to blithering idiot status.
If you admit error, we like you as a person and will seriously consider your ideas in these future.
That's how this works.
You make some interesting claims here. The claim you are disputing is that Saul was good with God when he was anointed. You claim that he was not, that he was trying to kill David. So let us look at the scriptures to see who is accurate.
Now Saul gets anointed by Samuel in 1 Samuel 9, with no reference to David at all. David is first mentioned in 1 Samuel 16, and in 1 Samuel 17 is in Saul's good graces. In fact, it is not until 1 Samuel 18, after David has been with Saul for a while and appointed to an elevated leadership position by Saul before Saul tries to kill him.
My vote would be that Irs68 was correct in what he said and that it is rather you who are mistaken and you who need to admit error. You moved the conflict between David and Saul to a time far earlier than scripture states that it existed.
I said when Saul was anointed not when he discovered that David was the rightful King God chose and would ultimately replace him.
It actually makes my argument because both Saul and Judas walked away from God after first being good with God.
My stance of salvation is that there is only one way, and that's through believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. There's not one person in the OT that was "looking forward" to the cross. Therefore, there was not one person saved in the OT. The best they could do was to demonstrate their faith in the Lord through obedience to whatever the Lord had for them at their time in history. And the best that could do for them is sleeping in Abraham's bosom.
Doesn't change the fact that Saul "took" the king position or the people, desperate for a king, made Saul be a king.
The language gets tricky here....just like it always is in Samuel. Saul was only annointed to be a military hero....not a king. Either Saul or the people went way beyond his anointing. I'm thinking Saul.... but the people acquiesced....so they were just as culpable.
And the passage of Saul taking off his robes and dancing and singing with the prophets due to the Holy Spirit being upon him....is a contrasting story in the tale of what David was doing at the time.
The whole books of Samuel is interlaced and interdependent sydochyne after syndochyne. (Type of poetry often associated with lymerics)
David putting on robes....Saul taking them.off. big doings symbolically.
And the Holy Spirit driving Saul to do it all.