Calvinism is Gospel !

[Cameron143]

That would make God the author of sin and people innocent of sin. Of course we have the ability to choose. Calvinists will tell you we do not and Calvinists by any other name will say the same. He answered you as follows:



He CAN'T answer that discussion without crossing the line and presenting limited atonement, total depravity etc so now that question cannot be answered his way because, as has been happening, those who put their faith in Jesus will contest the error of the reply.

You are unsound logically. I've put my faith in Christ and I won't contest my reply. Neither would I need to cross any line. What I would have to do is correct many assumptions and falsehoods from people who don't even know what saved by grace means, don't understand what grace is, and routinely say that salvation is by grace but add requirements to it.

While I do value you greatly as one who bears the image of God, I find little value in your posts. I do appreciate the discussion and truly do desire God's blessings upon you.

Grace and peace.

 

[HeIsHere]

I took some time to write post 1819 and he just skips over it even though it deals with his supposed 2 questions.

He seems to think everyone is ignorant of scripture that he chooses to use like a magician, changing the meaning and presenting it as 'gospel truth' when it is not even the gospel, but rather prophecy for Israel. Does our heart change when we accept Christ? of course it does!

BUT God does not wave a want and presto we are now able to understand the gospel. Ignorance is not bliss after all.

They cannot understand truth when you present it they have a some type of blockage, heart, mind not sure.
Yes some are very adept at twisting, but you are on it.

I think this quite important topic, we are talking about the core of Christianity how a person is saved.

Yeah, I have learned their tactics so I count that as good thing, always good to defend the true Gospel, but, I know it is a waste of time but so easy to get drawn back in!!

 

[HeIsHere]

You are unsound logically. I've put my faith in Christ and I won't contest my reply. Neither would I need to cross any line. What I would have to do is correct many assumptions and falsehoods from people who don't even know what saved by grace means, don't understand what grace is, and routinely say that salvation is by grace but add requirements to it.

While I do value you greatly as one who bears the image of God, I find little value in your posts. I do appreciate the discussion and truly do desire God's blessings upon you.

Grace and peace.

The faith that was gifted to you, uniquely, individually and particularly, you missed that part.

 

[Cameron143]

The way Paul lays it out means they are all important "through faith" being the condition God sets as required to receive the gift.

I know you tactics focus on one to the exclusion of the other, you see those of us who to correct soteriology do not have to use these tactics.

Ephesians 2: 8 being the concise statement on the the plan of salvation, it is very clear, the Gift is salvation.

It's false to say faith is a condition of salvation. It is the means of salvation. If faith is a condition of salvation, salvation rests upon God's action and your response to it. Your response is by definition not grace. It requires more than the exercise of God's power.

 

[HeIsHere]

Salvation by grace doesn't mitigate responsibility. All mankind is responsible before God by virtue of creation.

It is salvation by grace through faith!

Easy enough for a child to comprehend.

 

[Cameron143]

It is salvation by grace through faith!

Easy enough for a child to comprehend.

Then why can't you?

 

[HeIsHere]

It's false to say faith is a condition of salvation. It is the means of salvation. If faith is a condition of salvation, salvation rests upon God's action and your response to it. Your response is by definition not grace. It requires more than the exercise of God's power.

Is this philosophy class.

Christ Jesus all through the Gospel of John calls people to believe.... belief is the Gospel call.

Anyway, until you can come back as a Greek scholar to rebut the Greek scholars who have exegeted Ephesians 2:8-9 and have had the debate with the Calvinists and sunk them every time, the the debate is over, you just have not yet accepted it, sadly.

 

[Cameron143]

Is this philosophy class.

Christ Jesus all through the Gospel of John calls people to believe.... belief is the Gospel call.

Anyway, until you can come back as a Greek scholar to rebut the Greek scholars who have exegeted Ephesians 2:8-9 and have had the debate with the Calvinists and sunk them every time, the the debate is over, you just have not yet accepted it, sadly.

You don't need a scholar. You need a class in logic. I'll help you:

Salvation is by grace.

Grace is the exercise of God's power.

Salvation is by the exercise of God's power.

It's simple. Nowhere in there do you see the response of the individual. In fact, Paul made that plain as well...and that not of yourself.

You were right. Even a child can understand this.

 

[Dave123]

Well, I guess we need to distinguish between the progressive revelation that has been documented for us to read and learn from during a time of transition from one age to the next........ and where we are presently firmly in the new testament age.

I agree. But there was scripture posted from 1 Corinthians that says the same thing. I just think that we should be more careful when we see that some have been hardened and so that they cannot believe. In the passage I quoted you from John they were hardened so that they could not believe, yet, never the less, some believed. The Jews who were hardened, Paul said that they could be grafted back in, that it was only a partial hardening. Yet when we see this in the gospels, it' doesn't really elude to the fact that it's only partial. The bigger the context, the more loosely it would appear that they are unable to believe or understand. Perhaps something got lost in the translation. I just know, we receive the life, the indwelling as a result of believing. So the initial faith seems to be a different ballgame all together. I have more options than the traditional two option theory by Calvinists, though.

 

[HeIsHere]

You don't need a scholar. You need a class in logic. I'll help you:

Salvation is by grace.

Grace is the exercise of God's power.

Salvation is by the exercise of God's power.

It's simple. Nowhere in there do you see the response of the individual. In fact, Paul made that plain as well...and that not of yourself.

You were right. Even a child can understand this.

Faith is not a gift in that line, Koine Greek makes it clear, not of yourselves is by grace and the gift is salvation.

Sad when you become life up to the stereotype ...but you are wrong, plain and simple.

 

[Genez]

Grace saves...for by grace are we saved through faith. Regardless of how one believes salvation is accomplished, that it is accomplished by grace means that salvation is accomplished by what God does, and not by what the individual does in response to what God does.

Until individuals understand this, trying explain the outworking of salvation proves futile.

If you want to have a real impact, you might want to direct your efforts to those who insist we are saved by grace but add to it.

I asked you what grace does. And, what did you give me? Only using the word without showing how grace works.

Here it is again:

What exactly does that grace do?

Grace is God's supernatural power that He supplies to human beings who are incapable and unable to perform a needed action which God requires of him and approves of.

How do we know that?

Try reading it this time?


But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:9


God's grace power restrains our flesh to make one's soul able to think and consider the Gospel message.


........

 

[HeIsHere]

You don't need a scholar. You need a class in logic. I'll help you:

Salvation is by grace.

Grace is the exercise of God's power.

Salvation is by the exercise of God's power.

It's simple. Nowhere in there do you see the response of the individual. In fact, Paul made that plain as well...and that not of yourself.

You were right. Even a child can understand this.

Wrong again, we need to go back to the Greek because Greek is a gendered language, and when verses are being used to support a false soteriology I will definitely go to the biblical scholars who have studied Koine Greek.

 

[Cameron143]

Faith is not a gift in that line, Koine Greek makes it clear, not of yourselves is by grace and the gift is salvation.

Sad when you become life up to the stereotype ...but you are wrong, plain and simple.

I don't need faith to be a gift. Salvation is the gift. Since it is by grace, salvation is the result of the activity of God. Faith itself is the result of that activity if salvation is actually of grace. If it is the result of the individual choosing, it cannot be said to be of grace. It becomes grace plus the individual's choice. That doesn't meet the definition of grace.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't need faith to be a gift. Salvation is the gift. Since it is by grace, salvation is the result of the activity of God. Faith itself is the result of that activity if salvation is actually of grace. If it is the result of the individual choosing, it cannot be said to be of grace. It becomes grace plus the individual's choice. That doesn't meet the definition of grace.

Let' s just make it up and we see fit, a new way to exegete and a new type of hermeneutic!!

 

[Cameron143]

I asked you what grace does. And, what did you give me? Only using the word without showing how grace works.

Here it is again:

What exactly does that grace do?

Grace is God's supernatural power that He supplies to human beings who are incapable and unable to perform a needed action which God requires of him and approves of.

How do we know that?

Try reading it this time?


But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:9


God's grace power restrains our flesh to make one's soul able to think and consider the Gospel message.


........

You're fine until your final statement. God doesn't simply restrain the flesh, He does so by giving new hearts and spirits, and placing His Spirit within the individuals. This is why believers are new creations. God transforms the individuals.

 

[Cameron143]

Let' s just make it up and we see fit, a new way to exegete and a new type of hermeneutic!!

There is nothing new here. While I do believe faith is a gift because its source is God, it's simply not necessary to make the argument.

 

[HeIsHere]

There is nothing new here. While I do believe faith is a gift because its source is God, it's simply not necessary to make the argument.

No scripture to support a belief, is a false belief, simple as that.

 

[Cameron143]

No scripture to support a belief, is a false belief, simple as that.

Since when did you start basing your beliefs on scripture. You deny scripture.

If you want to have some validity, answer the panel that @Magenta posted and I'm sure will repost. Until then, you are just a caricature of yourself.

 

[HeIsHere]

Since when did you start basing your beliefs on scripture. You deny scripture.

If you want to have some validity, answer the panel that @Magenta posted and I'm sure will repost. Until then, you are just a caricature of yourself.

All out of context verses, nothing to reply to at all.

 

[Cameron143]

All out of context verses, nothing to reply to at all.

Like I said...you deny scripture.