Rubbish! If His word is working in and through us then we are not transgressing His commands.
Repentance and Keeping Commandments is only the beginning of salvation.
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Rubbish! If His word is working in and through us then we are not transgressing His commands.
Nonsensical.
No one that has ever repented after Jesus was slain and is risen again, could have ever repented before Jesus was slain and risen again.
No one can possibly repent and be saved from sinning by Jesus Christ, until after His resurrection, not before:
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
True. God and the Word were committed to coming and dying for sins of men and women, when Adam and Eve transgressed God's commandment.
The Word was made flesh thousands of years later, and Jesus was slain shortly thereafter, and then risen again 3 days later.
True. By dying for sins on a cross and resurrecting from the grave, God and Jesus Christ began the means by which men could be saved from sinning.
The first person to be saved by Jesus Christ was Mary Magdalene at the tomb in the dark, who believed on His resurrection, and confessed Him Lord. Thomas was not saved until he saw the Lord risen with the prints of nails in His hands, and the wound of spear thrust in His the side of His resurrected body.
?? More nonsensical.
How can repenting from transgressions as commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ, after His crucifixion and resurrection, not be a response to His crucifixion and resurrection?
Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Not the beginning of another salvation, but only the beginning of the salvation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 1:6
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
You're misunderstanding something here: No one is saying your own salvation begins with repentance and keeping God's commandments. I'm only preaching the beginning of the gospel salvation according to the Scriptures:
Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So, you continue to argue for your nonsensical salvation, and I'll continue to argue for my Scriptural salvation. But don't be confused that we're preaching the same gospel of salvation.
?? I know it's rubbish as you say, that anyone's salvation by Jesus Christ, begins with continued transgressions of His commands. That's what I've been preaching against.
But then why do you object to the preaching of keeping His commandments from the beginning of His salvation, and not transgressing His commands?? If His commands are not being kept, then they are being transgressed. Right?? It can be both at the same time. Right??
Either I'm misunderstanding you, and you're trying to say something else, or you're confusing your own words.
So, let's back up and start over: I preach that keeping God's commandments is at the beginning of Jesus Christ's salvation from transgressions. Agree?
From the beginning of Jesus' salvation, saved believers are keeping God's commandments, not transgressing them. Agree?
Therefore, unrepented transgressors have not begun in the salvation of Jesus Christ. They must repent as commanded,. and believe Jesus Christ to be saved and begin keeping His commandments...
Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
??? You're going to have to explain that, because it makes no sense.
There are only two options at the beginning of salvation by Jesus Christ:
1. The commandments of God are being kept.
2. The commandments of God are being transgressed.
There is no 3rd option of keeping His commands and transgressing His commands at the same time, whether at the beginning of Jesus' salvation, or at any time at all on earth.
It's not possible to be doing both good and evil at the same time. Or, is it?? If so, explain how. And then show it's not philosophical nonsense, by proving it from Scripture of truth...
Your proposition, as you stated it, is this:
“Well, if you're arguing against the salvation that begins with keeping God's commandments, then you are arguing a salvation beginning with transgressing His commandments. “
You have only two options:
A. A salvation that begins with keeping God’s commandments;
B. A salvation that begins with transgressing His commandments.
This is a false dichotomy because it forces a decision between only two options when there are more options available. In this case, you have excluded the option that represents biblical truth: a salvation that begins with God’s initiative to provide salvation for His people.
The rest of your post is irrelevant because you have changed the options.
[/QUOTE]
Keeping His commands is the evidence of salvation, not the beginning of it. It begins and ends with Christ. If you are resting in Him, believing His Word, and allowing grace to do the work, in the power of the Spirit, you will keep His commands.
The Christian walk is very specific and narrow and too few Christians know how to do it because they have people like you telling them if they don't obey the rules, they will fail and they do fail because if all it took was obeying the rules, Christ's death was in vain.
Acts 15:5-11
5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
6Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
Hearing and believing the Gospel is the only beginning to salvation. After that, is learning to walk in the salvation you have, the new way of living, because your salvation is complete in Christ and we have all we need in Him.
You sir, are like "some of the sect of the Pharisees" telling people they must obey commands rather than teaching them the correct way to walk. Our salvation is a work of grace from beginning to end. Obedience flows out from understanding that truth.
You obviously didn't understand what I wrote.
Again, you did not understand what I wrote.
Wrong, as I have already explained.
You certainly aren't preaching Scriptural salvation, because I have refuted your false salvation with Scripture. Yours is a works-based corruption.
Well, of course there's another delusional option of both keeping the commandments and transgressing them at the same time, which is impossible.
And I suppose there is the theoretical scenario of the newborn Christ doing nothing at the time, and so neither keeping the commandments, nor transgressing. However, unless that new Christian immediately dies, then he/she will go on to either keep the commandments or transgress them.
All newborn babes in Christ Jesus will keep the commandments from the beginning.
Only converts to another gospel, will continue transgressing from the beginning of their own sinners' religion.
This no doubt is that latter gospel of new converts continuing to transgress the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It's a false sinful Christ that 'provides' salvation while transgressing. That 'provision' can only be for them that have not repented of transgressions in the first place. Those who do repent of transgressions, don't need some 'provisional' salvation to justify them while still transgressing the Lord's commandments.
It's self-explanatory that unrepentant transgressors, will continue transgressing. While them that do repent will keep the commandments.
The difference between Jesus Christ's salvation from sinning, and another Christ's salvation while sinning, is once again self-explanatory.
Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sinning.
Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
People can either repent for the pure religion of Jesus Christ with keeping His commandments and faith, or people can accept a sinful religion of another Christ with transgressions and their own faith alone.
Jerem 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
In any case, keeping God's commandments is the beginning of Jesus Christ's salvation, not the sinful salvation of another Christ...
So, we're going in circles. I'll try once more to be clear: Either new converts to Jesus Christ begin keeping His commandments. Or converts to another Christ continue transgressing commandments.
We're talking about the life and works from the beginning of conversion. Of course it's Jesus Christ who begins the salvation of new Christians, that now begin keeping His commandments.
Therefore, If anyone is continuing to transgress, then as you say, their continued transgressions are the evidence that their conversion was not by Jesus Christ the righteous.
And the difference is self-explanatory: Jesus' salvation begins with repenting of our transgressions, and so keeping commandments by faith in Jesus:
Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
But the false hope of some other gospel is salvation with unrepented transgressions. Jesus Christ begin His salvation with them that do repent of their transgressions, and some other Christ begins a salvation with unrepented transgressors...
Once again, confusing people like you for some reason talk against yourself.
First you preach keeping His commands by resting in Christ. Then you strangely object to preaching against transgressions, i.e. not obeying His commands.
Now, if you are talking about some other 'rules' than His commands, then say so.
In any case, God's Scriptures preach keeping His commands by faith in Jesus, and against transgressing His commands.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1Jo 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keeping not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
If you object to preaching commandment keeping, and against transgressions, then your problem is with the Scriptures and gospel of Jesus Christ.
Ok, so you're confusing keeping the commandments of the Lord, with the 'rules' of Moses' old law.
Normally, I'd wink at it, but this is inexcusable. Nowhere in the argument can anyone honestly conceive, that the law of Moses is being commanded.
So, if that's your objection, then take it to those who preach Moses in the new covenant of Jesus Christ...
Not with transgressions.
If you preach continued transgressions with conversion, while 'learning' to walk new, then you're just preaching another sinfukl religion of unrepented transgressors 'learning' how to do less evil than before.
That's not the whole new conversion and pure religion of Jesus Christ, where the repented convert begins the whole new life of keeping God's commandments without any of the old transgressions.
1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Who's preaching obeying commands?
How can preaching obeying God's commandments not be teaching the correct way to walk with Him??
Either you are mistaking commandment keeping of the Lord, with the 'rules' of Moses' law, or you are preaching a 'gradual' or 'delayed' commandment keeping for new converts, while continuing to transgress, and 'learning' to transgress less: Unrepented transgressors' religion.
Or, perhaps you are objecting to preaching commandment keeping, without teaching it is only by salvation, grace, and faith in Jesus Christ? Once again, this would be unfair. Nowhere can it be understood, that Moses' law is being preached; And the grace of God is understood in repenting of transgressions for Jesus' sake, and keeping His commandments by faith in Him...
The conversion and salvation of Jesus Christ is only given freely to them that repent of transgressions, and keep His commandments by grace through faith, which is not of our own, but only of Jesus Christ.
Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:
Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Then learn how to write normal. I take words literally. I don't try to decipher someone's personal liturgical code.
There is no possible way to repent for Jesus' sake, after Jesus died and rose again. And Jesus' sacrifice on the cross be chronologically 'second' to repenting for Jesus' sake...
Once again, it's impossible to repent for Jesus' sake, due to His sacrifice on a cross, and not be a response to His sacrifice on a cross.
Unless now you have a different liturgical definition for 'response'.
Yours is a faith-alone based transgressions.
The one thing in common to every world religion, is continued sinning. They all believe and preach continuing to sin on earth unto the grave.
Do you believe and preach that you will continue sinning in life? Or, do you believe and preach keeping God's commandments and sin not?
I preach the Scriptures for the latter.
No problem. So a person preaching keeping God's commandments from the beginning of conversion and salvation of Jesus Christ.
Or they preach continued transgressions in the name of another Christ.
1Jo 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keeping not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
So, you hold continued sins and trespasses after salvation. Okay. I don't.
Absolutely glorious reality you have there. No wonder I can't understand the liturgical code of it.
And, you won't even consider repenting of all your transgressions for Jesus's sake, and the righteous kingdom of God.
2 Peter 1:6
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Rom 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
And so, we see the beginning, middle, and end of the great Faith-Alone salvation for unrepented sinners and trespassers unto the grave.
I write in proper English. If your education isn’t sufficient for understanding proper English, that’s a You problem.
There is no need to repent for Jesus’ sake because Jesus never sinned.
You botched that completely.
*sigh*… Go back and read my post again.
You complain that I don’t write “normal” (sic) but you post this grammatical disaster? Wow… the delusion is real.
Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are by grace saved through faith.
but that is not an excuse to walk in sin.
...."created in Christ Jesus unto good works,"...
Tit 2:11-12
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
This Grace that brings salvation also teaches us to live righteously and godly in this present world.
It requires faith on our part to believe that Jesus will give you victory.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are by grace saved through faith.
but that is not an excuse to walk in sin.
...."created in Christ Jesus unto good works,"...
Tit 2:11-12
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
This Grace that brings salvation also teaches us to live righteously and godly in this present world.
It requires faith on our part to believe that Jesus will give you victory.
You are the one chasing your tail not me.
I press on toward the goal, trusting Christ to finish what He began in me. I know I am helpless and hopeless to keep His commands which, is why I rest in Him through faith alone. That is when the miracles happen.
2 Corinthians 12:9
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
I pray more and more Christians work this out.