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J
John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” 41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
I'll make sure to respond to any crticisms that accurately and properly attempt to refute. I'm not going to bother responding to anything short of that save to correct bad responses.
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” 41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
I'll make sure to respond to any crticisms that accurately and properly attempt to refute. I'm not going to bother responding to anything short of that save to correct bad responses.
J
It is about conversion, but we see eternal security as well (since the two are linked).
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
What's it say?
Father gives --- > those given will come ---- > he won't drive them away
So since you can't resist (how can you if you will come when you're given?
and he won't drive you awway, how do you plan on getting away?
EDIT:
Pro-Tips: this is where you leave classical arminianism and say that not everyone who is saved is given by the father
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
What's it say?
Father gives --- > those given will come ---- > he won't drive them away
So since you can't resist (how can you if you will come when you're given?
and he won't drive you awway, how do you plan on getting away?
EDIT:
Pro-Tips: this is where you leave classical arminianism and say that not everyone who is saved is given by the father
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Read it for yourself
All those the Father gives
What does it mean to give?
All those the Father gives
What does it mean to give?
but couldn't we say something more like all those the Father tries to give?
alternatively hopes to give; wants to give; wishes he could give if we'd only help; gives after we fulfill the law (etc) could work.
think about it. just putting it out there.
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J
Come to think of it, I don't think that effects eternal security/osas/perseverence of the saints...
Here is why,
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
Ok, so let's say the person believes it is...
All those the father (succeeds in giving because some failed) will come to me, and whoever comes to me i will never drive way.
IT still is compatible with eternal security. Since you can only be brought to faith by god (evne though hefails a time or two) he won't drive you out, so how do you plan on getting out once you've been succesfully given?
Here is why,
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
Ok, so let's say the person believes it is...
All those the father (succeeds in giving because some failed) will come to me, and whoever comes to me i will never drive way.
IT still is compatible with eternal security. Since you can only be brought to faith by god (evne though hefails a time or two) he won't drive you out, so how do you plan on getting out once you've been succesfully given?
P
Do not the scriptures teach... Repentance, baptism, and the recieving of the promise (Holy Spirit) in Acts 2:38-39, and Acts 8:12,16 Acts 10:43-48, Acts 19: 1-6
How do these scriptures relate to the modern christian doctrine of repent and confess your sins and turn from them and accept the Lord Jesus into your heart?
How do these scriptures relate to the modern christian doctrine of repent and confess your sins and turn from them and accept the Lord Jesus into your heart?