False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[Journey_man]

You’re right that believers still sin, and you’re right that 1 John 3:9 and Romans 8:13 don’t teach perfection — but none of that proves sin is inevitable; the NT teaches that sin remains, not that sin must occur, and the break with sin’s dominion means the regenerate can obey in a way the unregenerate cannot; your model turns “ongoing battle” into “guaranteed defeat,” but Scripture frames it as remaining sin vs defeated sin, not “remaining sin vs inevitable sin”; the saved still fall, but they do not have to fall, because the Spirit makes real obedience genuinely possible.

I'm sure you would agree with the fact that every single human being since Adam, has sinned every single day of their lives, and there's is no way they/we can stop sining every single day of our lives.

I'm not suggesting that this is a good thing, to the contrary. I consider it a terrible reality, but it is the truth. You can duck and weave and dance around it, but it remains an ugly stain on humanity and it will remain until the end of time.

So, yes we all will sin every day for the rest of our lives. But those of us who are saved (Gods elect) can rejoice in the knowledge that all of our past, present and future sins are fully paid for by Christ so we won't be punished for them. That truly is good news for Gods elect.

 

[OMC]

I'm sure you would agree with the fact that every single human being since Adam, has sinned every single day of their lives, and there's is no way they/we can stop sining every single day of our lives.

I'm not suggesting that this is a good thing, to the contrary. I consider it a terrible reality, but it is the truth. You can duck and weave and dance around it, but it remains an ugly stain on humanity and it will remain until the end of time.

So, yes we all will sin every day for the rest of our lives. But those of us who are saved (Gods elect) can rejoice in the knowledge that all of our past, present and future sins are fully paid for by Christ so we won't be punished for them. That truly is good news for Gods elect.

Brother, the claim “every human sins every day and cannot stop sinning” is not what Scripture teaches about the regenerate.
It’s what your theological system teaches.
The Bible teaches universal sinfulness before regeneration, ongoing warfare after regeneration, and real Spirit‑produced victory in regeneration.
You’re treating the unregenerate condition as the permanent Christian condition, and the apostles never do that.

 

[Journey_man]

You keep repeating “saved by grace vs saved by works” as if the only two possible categories are
(1) monergistic justification and
(2) synergistic justification, but I’ve never argued synergistic justification —
I’ve argued Spirit‑produced sanctification, which Scripture treats as the result of salvation, not the condition of salvation.
When you say I’m “adding conditions,” you’re confusing the ground of salvation (Christ’s finished work) with the fruit of salvation (Spirit‑empowered obedience).
Romans 6 says the regenerate are freed from sin’s mastery;
Romans 8 says the regenerate put sin to death;
Titus 2 says grace trains us;
1 John says the regenerate do not continue in rebellion.
None of that is “finishing the job Jesus failed to finish.”
It’s the Bible’s doctrine of sanctification.
You’re collapsing justification and sanctification into one instantaneous event, then calling anything that happens afterward “conditions.”
But Scripture itself distinguishes them — justification is by grace alone, sanctification is the inevitable work of the Spirit, and rejecting that distinction doesn’t protect grace; it erases the very transformation the New Testament says God produces in every believer.

I keep repeating the "saved by grace" v "saved by works" because they are the only two options. You're attempting to add works to grace, in order to produce a hybrid salvation. But the bible never ever teaches this. You are just like those who believed that Christians should still practice Judaism. They also wanted to add works to grace to produce salvation.

You haven't found a single verse in the bible that supports your theory that salvation is achieved via a joint effort between a dead sinner and God. But the Bible says that a dead sinner can't contribute anything to his salvation. So you are rejecting Gods Word, in order to implement your unbiblical way of salvation.

 

[rewriter]

An observation that might resolve this issue, is being a sinner the result of making specific sinful actions or is it a statement about one's state of being. It would seem that if it is the result of making specific sinful acts then one can only be a forgiven sinner by being forgiven after making each specific act. But if being a sinner is the state of one's being, then a forgiven sinner remains a forgiven sinner even after continued sinful actions. Both states allow for contrition by the sinner for their sinful deeds, both allow the sinner to attempt to reduce their sinful acts, but one requires continual new forgiveness by God while the other recognizes that God's forgiveness is lasting.

 

[Journey_man]

An observation that might resolve this issue, is being a sinner the result of making specific sinful actions or is it a statement about one's state of being. It would seem that if it is the result of making specific sinful acts then one can only be a forgiven sinner by being forgiven after making each specific act. But if being a sinner is the state of one's being, then a forgiven sinner remains a forgiven sinner even after continued sinful actions. Both states allow for contrition by the sinner for their sinful deeds, both allow the sinner to attempt to reduce their sinful acts, but one requires continual new forgiveness by God while the other recognizes that God's forgiveness is lasting.

When God regenerates a born again believer, He gives us a new heart and a new spiritual nature through the Holy Spirit. But the old sinful nature, often called the "flesh" or the "old man," stays inside us. While sin is no longer our absolute master, the capacity and temptation to sin remain.

Christians experience a daily spiritual war between their new desires for God and our remaining sinful habits. Regeneration is the starting point that sets the process of growth—known as sanctification—in motion.
Even mature believers stumble daily in thoughts, words, and deeds. Believers must actively fight remaining sin every day, by "mortifying" or putting the flesh to death.

God never abandons a person He has regenerated; His good work will be brought to completion. When a regenerate believer sins, we experience conviction by the Holy Spirit and turn back to God in repentance. Committing sin does not mean we lose our salvation or our new identity in Christ.

 

[OMC]

I keep repeating the "saved by grace" v "saved by works" because they are the only two options. You're attempting to add works to grace, in order to produce a hybrid salvation. But the bible never ever teaches this. You are just like those who believed that Christians should still practice Judaism. They also wanted to add works to grace to produce salvation.

You haven't found a single verse in the bible that supports your theory that salvation is achieved via a joint effort between a dead sinner and God. But the Bible says that a dead sinner can't contribute anything to his salvation. So you are rejecting Gods Word, in order to implement your unbiblical way of salvation.

Your reply collapses the entire sanctification debate into a false binary (“grace vs works”) that Scripture itself does not use, because the New Testament distinguishes justification (grace alone, apart from works) from sanctification (Spirit‑produced obedience) without ever merging them into a hybrid salvation:
Romans 6 says the regenerate are freed from sin’s mastery, not contributing to salvation;
Romans 8 says they put sin to death by the Spirit, not to earn salvation;
Titus 2 says grace trains believers, not that believers co‑save themselves;
1 John says the regenerate do not continue in rebellion, not that obedience is a co‑payment.

You keep insisting that any post‑conversion transformation equals “adding works to grace,” but Scripture treats transformation as fruit, not ground; you’re collapsing justification and sanctification into one instantaneous event and then calling everything afterward “works‑salvation,” which erases the very change God promises to produce.
World‑system diagnosis: your argument reflects System 2 (hyper‑monergistic reductionism), where all categories collapse into justification and any biblical description of Spirit‑empowered obedience is reclassified as “works”;
the biblical passages themselves operate in System 1 (covenant‑juridical + Spirit‑transformative), where grace saves and the Spirit inevitably renovates.

 

[Journey_man]

Brother, the claim “every human sins every day and cannot stop sinning” is not what Scripture teaches about the regenerate.
It’s what your theological system teaches.
The Bible teaches universal sinfulness before regeneration, ongoing warfare after regeneration, and real Spirit‑produced victory in regeneration.
You’re treating the unregenerate condition as the permanent Christian condition, and the apostles never do that.

No, the Bible doesn't teach any such thing. It teaches that those who claim to be sinless are liars. Because a regenerated born again believer doesn't get the victory over our old nature in this life.

The Bible reveals that true believers continue to fight against our old sin nature. Paul clearly says that he was overpowered by his old nature.

True believers will become Christlike and sinless in the life to come, not in this life.

 

[OMC]

No, the Bible doesn't teach any such thing. It teaches that those who claim to be sinless are liars. Because a regenerated born again believer doesn't get the victory over our old nature in this life.

The Bible reveals that true believers continue to fight against our old sin nature. Paul clearly says that he was overpowered by his old nature.

True believers will become Christlike and sinless in the life to come, not in this life.

Your claim that “true believers don’t get victory over the old nature in this life” contradicts the very texts you’re appealing to, because 1 John’s warning that “if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves” (1 John 1:8) is not a denial of Spirit‑produced victory but a denial of sinless perfectionism, while Romans 6 explicitly says the regenerate are no longer slaves to sin (vv.6–7), Romans 8 says they actually put sin to death by the Spirit (v.13), Galatians 5 says they actually walk in the Spirit and do not fulfill the flesh (v.16), and Titus 2 says grace actually trains believers to renounce ungodliness (v.12); Paul’s Romans 7 struggle is not “overpowered forever” but the pre‑Spirit conflict he contrasts with Romans 8’s Spirit‑empowered life.
Scripture teaches ongoing warfare, not inevitable defeat; real obedience, not perfection; real transformation, not unchanged bondage. World‑system diagnosis:
Your argument reflects System 2 (hyper‑monergistic reductionism), where any biblical description of Spirit‑empowered obedience is reclassified as “works,” while the passages you cite operate in System 1 (covenant‑juridical + Spirit‑transformative), where grace saves and the Spirit actually produces victory.