Shall we sin that grace may abound?

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wattie said:
Yes, and i wouldn't say that either. OSAS doesn't mean that. The Holy Spirit will discipline a wayward believer.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that, just take a look at the five disappointing, problematic churches in the seven letters (Rev. 2-3). Collectively, those churches's fates are sealed, the Lord only called out the individuals with a conscience - "he who has an ear, let him hear!" Why didn't the Holy Spirit discipline the "angels" of these churches? Why is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit the unforgivable sin, and why did Paul seriously warn about grieving the Holy Spirit, if the Holy Spirit can somehow automatically disciple a wayward believer?
 
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wattie said:
Well, that makes salvation a hire purchase agreement with no assurance of salvation.
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Salvation is something we are granted IF we remain faithfully obedient to God.
Our assurance is the gift of the Holy Ghost, after having repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Acts 2:38 sums it up..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Paul writes of the Holy Ghost this way..."Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Cor 5:5)
The "earnest" is a downpayment.
If we keep to our end of the bargain, we will be found in the book of life on the day of judgement
wattie said:
Where is Jesus's forgiveness of the stain of sin? Ineffectual?
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Jesus' forgiveness is applied at our baptism in His name for the remission of past sins.
 
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Lovette said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that, just take a look at the five disappointing, problematic churches in the seven letters (Rev. 2-3). Collectively, those churches's fates are sealed, the Lord only called out the individuals with a conscience - "he who has an ear, let him hear!" Why didn't the Holy Spirit discipline the "angels" of these churches? Why is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit the unforgivable sin, and why did Paul seriously warn about grieving the Holy Spirit, if the Holy Spirit can somehow automatically disciple a wayward believer?
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The conviction on the soul for a believer from the Holy Spirit is what I mean. There could also be discipline from being a church member with the process of discipline in Mathew 18.

The point is, OSAS doesn't mean 'now do whatever you like'
 
wattie said:
The conviction on the soul for a believer from the Holy Spirit is what I mean. There could also be discipline from being a church member with the process of discipline in Mathew 18.

The point is, OSAS doesn't mean 'now do whatever you like'
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The variant is the reward. Each one's work will be tested through fire, those whose work withstands the test will be rewarded, those whose work fails will suffer loss, but they're still saved.
 
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Freed18 said:
Salvation is something we are granted IF we remain faithfully obedient to God.
Our assurance is the gift of the Holy Ghost, after having repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Acts 2:38 sums it up..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Paul writes of the Holy Ghost this way..."Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Cor 5:5)
The "earnest" is a downpayment.
If we keep to our end of the bargain, we will be found in the book of life on the day of judgement

Jesus' forgiveness is applied at our baptism in His name for the remission of past sins.
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Titus 3:5 KJV
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
wattie said:
This thread is about addressing the accusation given to OSAS believers, that we are 'preaching a license to sin' or saying you can be saved and 'live like the devil'
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When these people claim with all certainty that a Christian can never ever ever never lose their salvation no matter what - that's when others here this and think it's all good to go ahead and live in sin.

Making the false claim that a Christian can never lose their salvation is what needs to stop because the Word of God does not actually teach this. This false doctrine is something the devil brought in through the carnal minded religious teachings of his servants masquerading as Christians but who are actually tares
 
ScooterJackson said:
Making the false claim that a Christian can never lose their salvation is what needs to stop
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God's Sound Doctrine Does Not "need to stop" Because, Biblically It Encourages Grace believers
to "serve God out of love, instead of fear". Amen!:

"God's Eternal Salvation", According to A Very Vast Multitude of
Plain and Clear Scriptures, Under God's Grace, Today!: ie:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Thus, false accusations Need To Stop!

--------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.
 
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Freed18 said:
Has a continuing sinner been "renewed/regenerated" ?
No.
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Many have initially as in the got born again and if they died two minutes later they would have gone to Heaven.

But they kept living and many backslid and went back to living after the flesh which is when they went back under condemnation as they turned away from the Lord

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
ScooterJackson said:
Many have initially as in the got born again and if they died two minutes later they would have gone to Heaven.

But they kept living and many backslid and went back to living after the flesh which is when they went back under condemnation as they turned away from the Lord

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
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To me, "backsliding" is the manifestation of never having repented of sin.
No one who lies to God has any relationship to Him, much less was reborn of His seed.
 
Freed18 said:
To me, "backsliding" is the manifestation of never having repented of sin.
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God's Word warns against backsliding so some do actually turn away from the Lord after having repented of their sin and walking with the Lord

The Lord wouldn't be warning about something that's not possible, would He?

Of course not, that would be telling a lie and the Lord cannot lie.
 
Freed18 said:
Has a continuing sinner been "renewed/regenerated" ?
No.
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As said before.. someone who receives eternal life usually wouldn't continue in persistent sin. There will be fruit from the result of having the Holy Spirit in their spirit/soul. They will also have conviction from Him not to continue.

But because of free will, it's not impossible for a born again believer to continue in sin. Especially since no one is sinless after salvation.
 
ScooterJackson said:
When these people claim with all certainty that a Christian can never ever ever never lose their salvation no matter what - that's when others here this and think it's all good to go ahead and live in sin.

Making the false claim that a Christian can never lose their salvation is what needs to stop because the Word of God does not actually teach this. This false doctrine is something the devil brought in through the carnal minded religious teachings of his servants masquerading as Christians but who are actually tares
Click to expand...
All through the book of John..and in Romans.. has salvation as a free gift, not by works, through belief on Jesus Christ.

That is eternal salvation... not temporary, not a hire purchase agreement..a promise, an anchor for the soul.
 
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Cameron143 said:
What does it mean that He will never leave us or forsake us?
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See the Lord's faithfulness in Israel, Lev. 26:40-45. God is not a vengful maniac, those who sin suffer the consequence of their own actions.

‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me, and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt— then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember; I will remember the land. The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them; they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes. Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’ ”
 
wattie said:
As said before.. someone who receives eternal life usually wouldn't continue in persistent sin.
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Usually ?
One sin, after an alledged repentance from sin, makes the repentnance a lie to God.
Nobody can have a relationship with God that is based on lies.
wattie said:
There will be fruit from the result of having the Holy Spirit in their spirit/soul. They will also have conviction from Him not to continue.
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I agree.
wattie said:
But because of free will, it's not impossible for a born again believer to continue in sin.
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You may be unaware of what 1 John 3:9-10 says..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Sin is as likely for one reborn of God's seed as fig seeds are to bring forth grapes.
wattie said:
Especially since no one is sinless after salvation.
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Salvation will be granted on the day of judgement, so you are right...there will be no sin after the devil and his servants go to the lake of fire.
 
Lovette said:
See the Lord's faithfulness in Israel, Lev. 26:40-45. God is not a vengful maniac, those who sin suffer the consequence of their own actions.

‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me, and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt— then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember; I will remember the land. The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them; they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes. Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’ ”
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It was a rhetorical question but I appreciate the effort you exercised in your response.
 
wattie said:
All through the book of John..and in Romans.. has salvation as a free gift, not by works, through belief on Jesus Christ.

That is eternal salvation... not temporary, not a hire purchase agreement..a promise, an anchor for the soul.
Click to expand...

So you do openly admit that Christians can in fact live in sin walking after the flesh and still be saved?
 
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