THE LAW OF CHRIST

[Davidstarr]

When you say “you don’t want to be obedient to God’s will,” you’re assuming a spiritual posture that Scripture never allows you to diagnose in another believer’s heart.
Jesus forbids that move in Matthew 7 — you can judge fruit, but you cannot judge motives, because motives belong to God alone (1 Cor 4:5).
And when you say “heaven for you is eternal murder, adultery, worshiping idols,” that’s not exhortation — that’s accusation, and Revelation 12 calls that the dragon’s vocabulary, not the Spirit’s.
The Spirit convicts of sin, yes, but He does it by exposing actual disobedience, not by assigning imaginary wickedness to someone’s future state.
You’re right that human nature resists God (Rom 8:7), and you’re right that obedience is only possible through the Spirit (Rom 8:13), but the way you’re speaking right now is not the Spirit’s method.
The Spirit produces gentleness, patience, and truth — not prophetic doom aimed at a brother.

The doom for you is rejection of God's 10 commandment law.

All through the OT God's Spirit led His prophets to condemn the wicked in the hopes they would repent.

The choice is your to follow Jesus or continual life lived in rebellion against Him.

 

[pinebeach]

Now you can say the 10 commandments were also nailed to Jesus' cross.
ALL TEN of them.
And NT Christians do not have to obey those laws.

This is why I think you are an anarchist and a man of lawlessness.

1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justifyc the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.


10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirite through faith.

 

[OMC]

The doom for you is rejection of God's 10 commandment law.

All through the OT God's Spirit led His prophets to condemn the wicked in the hopes they would repent.

The choice is your to follow Jesus or continual life lived in rebellion against Him

It’s adorable that you think “doom” comes from rejecting the Ten Commandments when Paul literally says “the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ” and then immediately adds “we are no longer under a schoolmaster” (Gal 3:24–25), meaning your threat‑meter is about as calibrated as a broken smoke alarm; and your claim that OT prophets condemned the wicked “in hopes they would repent” is cute, because the text says “I have stretched out my hands all day to a rebellious people” (Isa 65:2) and “they refused to take correction” (Jer 5:3), which means the prophets weren’t motivational speakers but witnesses against hardened hearts; and your dramatic ultimatum — “follow Jesus or live in rebellion” — would land better if Jesus Himself hadn’t said “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15), which is wild because He then defines His commandments as faith in Him and love for one another (John 13:34; 1 John 3:23), not “re‑adopt Sinai or perish”; and the funniest part is you trying to weaponize the Decalogue while ignoring the fact that the ministry engraved on stones is called ‘the ministry of death’ (2 Cor 3:7) and ‘the ministry of condemnation’ (3:9), so your whole doom‑speech is basically Paul’s Exhibit A of someone clinging to the very covenant God replaced; but yes, please continue announcing people’s destruction while quoting the wrong covenant — the apostles would be fascinated watching you preach Moses to solve what only Christ’s Spirit can cure (Rom 8:3–4).

 

[NightTwister]

I did!

No, you really didn't. You are the master of the red herring fallacy. Instead of answering, you change the subject.

 

[Freed18]

The Torah contains 613 commandments, ten of which are the Ten Commandments, and it is by the Torah that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20). The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has the character traits that the Torah was given in order to teach us to embody, so if our goal is to embody His character traits, then the only way that we should cease to follow the Torah would be if God were to cease to have those character traits, but His character traits are eternal. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy as God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping His Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3) and refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 12:44-45), so if someone ceases to follow God’s instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, then they are treating God as if He has ceased to be holy. There are many other verses that call for us to be holy, so it is not the case that those instructions have been put away. The reason that Jesus went to the cross was not in order to free us to become doers of what the Torah reveals to be sin but just the opposite. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20). The Torah was never given to make us perfect, but rather Christ makes us perfect by leading us to be zealous for embodying it.

Those wishing to live without sin, receive the mind of Christ, so we know what is sinful.
No written law is necessary.

 

[Soyeong]

Those wishing to live without sin, receive the mind of Christ, so we know what is sinful.
No written law is necessary.

Sin is what is contrary to God's character traits and sin is the transgression of the Law of God because it was given in order to teach us how to embody His character traits. If someone is not living in obedience to the Law of God, then it is necessary. Regardless of whether or not the Law of God is necessary, those who have the mind of Christ are embodying his character traits in accordance with his example of obedience to the Law of God.

 

[Grace911]

God did not write the laws contained in ordinances on tablets of stone.
Your own post shows the 10 commandments are a separate law from the Mosaic laws. From the very fact ONLY the 10 commandments were written on stone (and by God's own finger).
The Mosaic (AKA Levitical laws) were written by Moses in a book, not on stone.

It is this handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to Jesus' cross, not the 10 commandments.

In agreement with you.

 

[Grace911]

Those wishing to live without sin, receive the mind of Christ, so we know what is sinful.
No written law is necessary.

Right. The definition of what is sin is best answered 1 John 3:4 Sin is the transgression of the law. To know the law and willfully choose to ignore it or twist it or lie about it would be sin.

 

[Gideon300]

Thanks, as that is the purpose of using scripture.

Your "anyone", are those who walk in darkness.
1 John 1:8 doesn't apply to those walking in God-the light, as there is no sin in the light !

Again you illustrate that you have been educated in the ways of defending sin.
Here is the real quote..."For in many things we offend all." (James 3:2)
The "many things", are the false doctines being taught alongside real doctrines.
Both salty water and sweet water coming from the same spigot. (James 3:11)
A "Too many cooks spoil the broth" scenario.

I won't be saved until the day of my resurrection.
I have, however, been converted.
The race remains to be run.

Is there sin "in Christ" ?
No ?
Well if there is sin in you, you are not "in Christ".

Funny, Paul called himself the chief of sinners. Not "was". There is no sin in Christ. However, I am NOT Christ. I still have the flesh and therefore I am able to sin. If you think that you cannot sin and never do sin, you are self deceived.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." James 3:2. KJV is either a wrong translation or you are reading it wrongly. Since you are faulty in what you are saying, you are not perfect.​

Not saved until resurrection? That's a Roman Catholic doctrine and it is false. If you are not saved now you will die in the sins you do not believe that you have. What is the difference between conversion and salvation?

Ephesians 2:4-6
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus......

"Have been saved". Not "will be saved when you die physically".

You know enough of God's word to deceive yourself. You need to know the whole truth, not string a few verses together to form a pseudo gospel that is no gospel at all.

In your opinion, and using your own definition of legalism, was Jesus our Lord a legalist when He said, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17), and, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15)?

You are right, Jesus was a legalist. He preached under the Old Covenant. He told the lepers to visit the priest to show themselves clean. He warned some to ensure that they observed the Sabbath. He also made it clear that outward observance of rules was insufficient. What you refuse to accept is that Lord Jesus introduced the New Covenant the night that He was betrayed.

When Lord Jesus spoke to the woman at the well, He did not say, "Observe the Law and the Sabbath and you will be saved." He did not mention the law to her at all. Why? She was a Samaritan, not a Jew.

No one has been required to obey all 613 commandments and not even Jesus experienced obedience to all of them, so that point continues to be irrelevant. If someone breaks one law, the they can repent. It’s not clear to me why you are acting like we can’t repent. God is sovereign, so we don’t have a choice about whether we are obligated to obey Him and it is refusing to obey Him that leads death, not obeying Him.


It is absurd to think that I am a false teacher for taking the position that followers of Christ should follow the example that he set for his followers to follow and not you for teaching against doing that. I have said nothing about imposing the Mosaic Covenant onto those who are born again under the New Covenant, but rather I have been speaking about the way to live under the New Covenant, which involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to the Torah are not born again, and in Romans 8:4-14, Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Torah.


I answered that point. Paul only spoke against becoming circumcised for incorrect reasons but did not speak against circumcision for the reasons that God commanded it.


The fact that God’s character traits are eternal means that any instructions that He has given for how to embody His character traits are eternal and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any.

Whatever.

 

[Freed18]

Sin is what is contrary to God's character traits and sin is the transgression of the Law of God because it was given in order to teach us how to embody His character traits.

I like John's 1 John 5:17 desription of sin..."All unrighteousness is sin:"

If someone is not living in obedience to the Law of God, then it is necessary.

I agree, just as Paul wrote in 1 Tim 1:9-10..."Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"
Those in Christ, are righteous men !

Regardless of whether or not the Law of God is necessary, those who have the mind of Christ are embodying his character traits in accordance with his example of obedience to the Law of God.

I agree, with this stipulation.
Our obedience is to God, and not to the Law of Moses.
Circumcision, feast keeping, sabbaths, tithing, and dietary rules, never made a single man righteous.

 

[Freed18]

Funny, Paul called himself the chief of sinners. Not "was".​

Actually, he called himself the chief of those saved.

There is no sin in Christ. However, I am NOT Christ. I still have the flesh and therefore I am able to sin. If you think that you cannot sin and never do sin, you are self deceived.​

Jesus had flesh and blood, and He lived a perfectly sin free life.
So can we.
Anyone alive can sin, but those who have turned from sin no longer commit sin.
I thank God for the gift of repentance fron sin for that.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8​

So true, if it is a man who walks in darkness-sin making the claim.
But not true at all, if the one making the claim is walking in the light...which is God, in whom is no darkness !

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." James 3:2. KJV is either a wrong translation or you are reading it wrongly. Since you are faulty in what you are saying, you are not perfect.​

Your translation is wrong.
The KJV bible says..."For in many things we offend all".
James is referring to those who are teaching doctrines contrary to Christianity.
The salty water was trying to come from the same spigot from which the pure water was coming !
That just couldn't keep happening !

Not saved until resurrection? That's a Roman Catholic doctrine and it is false. If you are not saved now you will die in the sins you do not believe that you have. What is the difference between conversion and salvation?

What I may be forced under torment to do in the future, is unknown to me.
Today, I may have my righteousness in tact, but who knows what tomorrow may hold.
I pray everyday that God keeps the darkness away from me.

Ephesians 2:4-6
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus......

Your nonKJV has led you astray.
It should read..."Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved"
There is no "have BEEN saved"
God will freely save us, if we take the steps to no longer be dead in sins.
But that test is life long.

"Have been saved". Not "will be saved when you die physically".

See above.

You know enough of God's word to deceive yourself. You need to know the whole truth, not string a few verses together to form a pseudo gospel that is no gospel at all.

Would that be the truth Jesus said would free us from committing sin, in John 8:32-34 ?

 

[Inquisitor]

Thankfully, Jesus only had two laws for us to keep.
Love God, and love our neighbors.
By His condensing the entire 600+ laws down to just two, He made it possible to keep them perfectly.

God is love!

The character trait that was above everything else ever written in the scripture.

Colossians 3:14
And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.

 

[2Christ]

Sin is what is contrary to God's character traits and sin is the transgression of the Law of God because it was given in order to teach us how to embody His character traits. If someone is not living in obedience to the Law of God, then it is necessary. Regardless of whether or not the Law of God is necessary, those who have the mind of Christ are embodying his character traits in accordance with his example of obedience to the Law of God.

What are God's character traits? can you list them ans instruct us since you know them well?

 

[2Christ]

Funny, Paul called himself the chief of sinners. Not "was". There is no sin in Christ. However, I am NOT Christ. I still have the flesh and therefore I am able to sin. If you think that you cannot sin and never do sin, you are self deceived.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." James 3:2. KJV is either a wrong translation or you are reading it wrongly. Since you are faulty in what you are saying, you are not perfect.​

Not saved until resurrection? That's a Roman Catholic doctrine and it is false. If you are not saved now you will die in the sins you do not believe that you have. What is the difference between conversion and salvation?

Ephesians 2:4-6
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus......

"Have been saved". Not "will be saved when you die physically".

You know enough of God's word to deceive yourself. You need to know the whole truth, not string a few verses together to form a pseudo gospel that is no gospel at all.

You are right, Jesus was a legalist. He preached under the Old Covenant. He told the lepers to visit the priest to show themselves clean. He warned some to ensure that they observed the Sabbath. He also made it clear that outward observance of rules was insufficient. What you refuse to accept is that Lord Jesus introduced the New Covenant the night that He was betrayed.

When Lord Jesus spoke to the woman at the well, He did not say, "Observe the Law and the Sabbath and you will be saved." He did not mention the law to her at all. Why? She was a Samaritan, not a Jew.

Whatever.

I fear for you Gideon.

 

[Dino246]

Actually, he called himself the chief of those saved.

Jesus had flesh and blood, and He lived a perfectly sin free life.
So can we.
Anyone alive can sin, but those who have turned from sin no longer commit sin.
I thank God for the gift of repentance fron sin for that.

So true, if it is a man who walks in darkness-sin making the claim.
But not true at all, if the one making the claim is walking in the light...which is God, in whom is no darkness !

Your translation is wrong.
The KJV bible says..."For in many things we offend all".
James is referring to those who are teaching doctrines contrary to Christianity.
The salty water was trying to come from the same spigot from which the pure water was coming !
That just couldn't keep happening !

What I may be forced under torment to do in the future, is unknown to me.
Today, I may have my righteousness in tact, but who knows what tomorrow may hold.
I pray everyday that God keeps the darkness away from me.

Your nonKJV has led you astray.
It should read..."Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved"
There is no "have BEEN saved"
God will freely save us, if we take the steps to no longer be dead in sins.
But that test is life long.

See above.

Would that be the truth Jesus said would free us from committing sin, in John 8:32-34 ?

This is the wrong thread for arguing translation differences.

 

[NightTwister]

I fear for you Gideon.

Our fear is greater for those of you who truly believe you never sin.

 

[Freed18]

God is love!

The character trait that was above everything else ever written in the scripture.

Colossians 3:14
And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.

Amen !

 

[Freed18]

Our fear is greater for those of you who truly believe you never sin.

Can you tell me why you would fear for those who obey God perfectly ?

 

[NightTwister]

Can you tell me why you would fear for those who obey God perfectly ?

I don't. I fear for those who *BELIEVE* they obey God perfectly. They don't, so they'll never address their sin.

 

[Freed18]

I don't. I fear for those who *BELIEVE* they obey God perfectly. They don't, so they'll never address their sin.

Is there sin "in Christ" ?