Is Knowledge of the Original Languages Necessary for KJV Believers?

[John146]

Elizabethan English is not the same as modern English. I'm English so I do know what I'm talking about. One simple example. "Conversation" these days means talking to people. In Elizabethan English, it meant a way of life. So Psalm 50:23 means something entirely different from what the KJV states.

How about this gem? "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him." Song of Solomon 5:4

or "And Joseph made haste; for his bowels did yearn upon his brother: and he sought where to weep; and he entered into his chamber, and wept there." Genesis 43:30

You are entitled to read whatever version suits you. But don't kid yourself that the KJV is superior to any other version. People don't necessarily need to know Greek and Hebrew to make sense of the KJV. They need to translate Elizabethan English to modern English. And guess what? You can buy Bibles that have done that.​

And besides, I don't want God's word to sound modern. Scripture needs to go against the modern grain of today. English keeps getting watered down, even slang. Soon enough, there will be a meme bible version to fit the needs of future generations. Instead of changing the bible to fit our needs, let's allow the bible to change us for God's sake.

 

[Dino246]

And besides, I don't want God's word to sound modern. Scripture needs to go against the modern grain of today. English keeps getting watered down, even slang. Soon enough, there will be a meme bible version to fit the needs of future generations. Instead of changing the bible to fit our needs, let's allow the bible to change us for God's sake.

Your conflation of “the Bible” with the KJV is cultic.

 

[John146]

Your conflation of “the Bible” with the KJV is cultic.

God exalts his word above his own name. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ. I exalt his word which tells me about the Lord Jesus Christ. That's not a cult. It's biblical.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

And besides, I don't want God's word to sound modern. Scripture needs to go against the modern grain of today. English keeps getting watered down, even slang. Soon enough, there will be a meme bible version to fit the needs of future generations. Instead of changing the bible to fit our needs, let's allow the bible to change us for God's sake.

Even children see this to be true.
I was recommending the traditional translation and a dictionary to a family when the mother said she gave her preteen and teenage children a Teen Study Bible. They started discussing the trendy phrases and word usage. I never heard them laugh so hard!

It should grieve me to hear anyone mock the word of God, but I don't think the words of God were the parts that they thought were funny.

 

[Dino246]

God exalts his word above his own name. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ. I exalt his word which tells me about the Lord Jesus Christ. That's not a cult. It's biblical.

As usual you have sidestepped the real issue in favour of high-sounding red herrings.

 

[John146]

As usual you have sidestepped the real issue in favour of high-sounding red herrings.

The real issue? I believe that God has preserved his words in English in the KJV. You accused me of being cultish for my beliefs. I guess we'll see when we meet the Lord. Maybe he'll accuse me of foolishly believing he preserved his word. But if it's true, I'd hate to be on the other side.

 

[OMC]

God exalts his word above his own name. I worship the Lord Jesus Christ. I exalt his word which tells me about the Lord Jesus Christ. That's not a cult. It's biblical.

Saying God exalts his word over his name is inaccurate. Psalm 138:2 — God magnifies His promises and His faithfulness above every reputation attached to His name, meaning God binds His own name to the reliability of His word;
He is saying, “My character stands or falls on whether My word proves true,” not that His word is ontologically superior to His name.
The Hebrew construction is comparative‑intensive:
God has so elevated the trustworthiness of His spoken word that His name — His revealed identity — is publicly vindicated by it;
He is not ranking attributes, He is declaring that His reputation is staked on His promises.
This fits the whole biblical pattern: God’s name is His covenant identity (Exod 3:15), His word is His covenant revelation (Deut 8:3), and He ties them together so tightly that breaking His word would destroy His name — which He will never do (Num 23:19).

 

[John146]

Saying God exalts his word over his name is inaccurate. Psalm 138:2 — God magnifies His promises and His faithfulness above every reputation attached to His name, meaning God binds His own name to the reliability of His word;
He is saying, “My character stands or falls on whether My word proves true,” not that His word is ontologically superior to His name.
The Hebrew construction is comparative‑intensive:
God has so elevated the trustworthiness of His spoken word that His name — His revealed identity — is publicly vindicated by it;
He is not ranking attributes, He is declaring that His reputation is staked on His promises.
This fits the whole biblical pattern: God’s name is His covenant identity (Exod 3:15), His word is His covenant revelation (Deut 8:3), and He ties them together so tightly that breaking His word would destroy His name — which He will never do (Num 23:19).

Magnifies, yes. That is the correct word. God has magnified his word above his own name.

 

[OMC]

I believe that God has preserved his words in English in the KJV.

But his words were not written in english.

 

[OMC]

Magnifies, yes. That is the correct word. God has magnified his word above his own name.

God magnifies His word above His name in the sense that His reputation rests on His promises, not in the sense of creating a hierarchy inside the Godhead.

 

[Dino246]

The real issue? I believe that God has preserved his words in English in the KJV. You accused me of being cultish for my beliefs. I guess we'll see when we meet the Lord. Maybe he'll accuse me of foolishly believing he preserved his word. But if it's true, I'd hate to be on the other side.

Another typical tactic: moral imperialism. You’re still sidestepping.

 

[Dino246]

Saying God exalts his word over his name is inaccurate. Psalm 138:2 — God magnifies His promises and His faithfulness above every reputation attached to His name, meaning God binds His own name to the reliability of His word;
He is saying, “My character stands or falls on whether My word proves true,” not that His word is ontologically superior to His name.
The Hebrew construction is comparative‑intensive:
God has so elevated the trustworthiness of His spoken word that His name — His revealed identity — is publicly vindicated by it;
He is not ranking attributes, He is declaring that His reputation is staked on His promises.
This fits the whole biblical pattern: God’s name is His covenant identity (Exod 3:15), His word is His covenant revelation (Deut 8:3), and He ties them together so tightly that breaking His word would destroy His name — which He will never do (Num 23:19).

Thank you for clarifying this. I knew the KJV wording was misleading and often misinterpreted but hadn’t dug into the matter.

 

[John146]

But his words were not written in english.

No, but they were preserved in English.

 

[John146]

God magnifies His word above His name in the sense that His reputation rests on His promises, not in the sense of creating a hierarchy inside the Godhead.

Agreed. Should we also magnify God's word?

 

[OMC]

No, but they were preserved in English.

Where is Scripture does it say his words are preserved in english language?

 

[OMC]

Preservation does not equal perfect translation, and the KJV translators themselves said exactly that in their preface. The inspired words are in Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek; the KJV is a faithful carrier, not a second act of inspiration.

 

[John146]

Where is Scripture does it say his words are preserved in english language?

Do you believe that our God, who gave us his word, commanded us to live by every one of his words, was he able to preserve his words in a book? If so, where are they?

 

[OMC]

Do you believe that our God, who gave us his word, commanded us to live by every one of his words, was he able to preserve his words in a book? If so, where are they?

Hebrew Masoretic Text for the Old Testament and the Textus Receptus (the traditional printed Greek text) for the New Testament

 

[Dino246]

No, but they were preserved in English.

That is an opinion rooted in your KJV-only ideology, not an objective fact based on evidence.

 

[OMC]

Issues in KJV are as follows:

1. Acts 12:4 — “Easter” vs. Pascha (Passover)
KJV: “intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.”
Greek: meta to pascha = after Passover.
Issue: Pascha never means Easter anywhere in Scripture.
Effect: Creates a Christian holiday in a Jewish context.
2. Hebrews 4:8 — “Jesus” vs. Iēsous (Joshua)
KJV: “For if Jesus had given them rest…”
Greek: Iēsous = Joshua (the son of Nun).
Issue: Same Greek name for Jesus/Joshua, but context is clearly Joshua.
Effect: Confuses readers into thinking Christ led Israel into Canaan.

3. Revelation 16:5 — “and shalt be” (added phrase)
KJV: “Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be…”
Greek: ho hosios = “the Holy One.”
Issue: KJV translators added “and shalt be” with no Greek basis.
Effect: Inserts a phrase not found in any Greek manuscript.

4. 1 John 5:7 — The Comma Johanneum
KJV: Includes “the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
Greek: Not found in any Greek manuscript before the 1500s.
Issue: A late Latin gloss entered the Textus Receptus.
Effect: Adds a Trinitarian formula not present in John’s original text

5. Matthew 23:24 — “strain at a gnat” vs. diulizō (strain out)
KJV: “Ye strain at a gnat…”
Greek: diulizō = to strain out.
Issue: A printing error in 1611 that stayed.
Effect: Reverses the metaphor — Jesus says they filter out gnats but swallow camels.

6. Romans 8:16 — “Spirit… beareth witness with our spirit”
KJV: Suggests two witnesses side‑by‑side.
Greek: symmartyrei = “bears witness to our spirit.”
Issue: The Spirit is the witness to us, not a co‑witness with us.
Effect: Slight doctrinal shift in assurance.

7. Exodus 20:13 — “Thou shalt not kill” vs. ratsach (murder)
KJV: “kill.”
Hebrew: ratsach = murder (intentional killing of the innocent).
Issue: “Kill” is broader than the Hebrew term.
Effect: Creates confusion about war, execution, self‑defense.

8. Jonah 3:10 — “God repented” vs. nacham (relented, had compassion)
KJV: “God repented of the evil…”
Hebrew: nacham = to relent, to be moved with compassion.
Issue: “Repent” implies moral failure, which God does not have.
Effect: Misleads readers about God’s nature.

9. 2 Thessalonians 2:7 — “letteth” vs. katechō (restrains)
KJV: “he who now letteth will let…”
Greek: katechō = restrain, hold back.
Issue: In 1611 “let” meant “hinder,” but today it means “allow.”
Effect: Modern readers get the opposite meaning.

10. Philippians 2:6 — “thought it not robbery” vs. harpagmos (something to grasp)
KJV: “thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”
Greek: harpagmos = something to seize or cling to.
Issue: The KJV phrase is archaic and obscures the meaning.
Effect: Makes Christ’s humility harder to understand.