Obedience REQUIRED

[Everlasting-Grace]

That's exactly what I said.

Paul did not teach justification by works. He taught justification by faith apart from works (Rom. 3:28; Eph. 2:8-9).

He also taught that believers will be judged according to their works at the Judgment Seat of Christ, not to determine salvation, but to determine reward (1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10).

So there is no contradiction:

Salvation is a gift received by faith.

Rewards are earned through faithful service.

The same Paul who said we are saved "not of works" also said every believer's work will be tested by fire. The works do not save the believer, but they do matter to Christ.
In short, works are the evidence of salvation and the basis of reward, but they are never the basis of justification.

the op is about obedience being required for salvation.

Please pay attention.

Obedience is not required for salvation.

its not required for anything.

Obedience is a new creations new life..

 

[Lamar]

Obedience is one of the evidences of salvation.

Obedience is not "evidence" or proof that a person is saved. That is absurd.

Thinking that you are right with God because you believe you are obedient is poppycock.

Following or obeying the directions of God is simply how one is saved not evidence of a saved state.

 

[Burn1986]

I would be careful is with the statement that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is "the birthplace of the spirit."
Scripture teaches that a person is born again by the Spirit (John 3:5-8) and belongs to Christ because they have the Spirit (Rom. 8:9). Many Christians therefore see the new birth and receiving the Spirit as occurring at conversion.
If by "baptism of the Holy Spirit" you mean a subsequent empowering for service, boldness, ministry, and greater sensitivity to God's leading, then I can understand what you're describing from Acts.
So I'd put it this way:
the Spirit absolutely sharpens our hearing, empowers our walk, and enables effective ministry.
The question isn't whether God leads His people.
The question is how we distinguish His leading from our own thoughts.
That's why even Spirit-filled believers are told to test, discern, and examine what they receive rather than assume every impression is from

I mistyped saying the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the birthplace of the Spirt. I meant to say it’s how a man is born of the Spirit.

Again, there’s that word careful. I think a better word would be “You’re wrong” or “You’re possibly off.”

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Obedience is not "evidence" or proof that a person is saved. That is absurd.

Thinking that you are right with God because you believe you are obedient is poppycock.

Following or obeying the directions of God is simply how one is saved not evidence of a saved state.

this person puts him self under law (obedience)

I wish him luck

 

[OMC]

I mistyped saying the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the birthplace of the Spirt. I meant to say it’s how a man is born of the Spirit.

Again, there’s that word careful. I think a better word would be “You’re wrong” or “You’re possibly off.”

Fair enough. If you meant that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is how a man is born of the Spirit, then my concern remains the same, but you're right that "be careful" may not have been the best wording.
The reason I responded that way is because I wasn't sure whether you were misspeaking or intentionally equating Spirit baptism with the new birth.
If you're intentionally making that identification, then I'd simply say I think you're wrong rather than merely needing caution.
My hesitation comes from the fact that many Christians distinguish between the new birth passages, such as John 3, and the baptism of the Spirit passages, such as Acts 1 and Acts 2. So the debate is not over whether a man must be born of the Spirit, but whether that is identical to what Scripture calls the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
In other words, my disagreement is not with the necessity of the Spirit's work in regeneration.
It's with the claim that regeneration and Spirit baptism are always the same event.

 

[Yissachar]

>>>

abomination - Strong's Number H8263 matches the Hebrew שֶׁקֶץ (šeqeṣ), which occurs 11 times in 11 verses in the Hebrew Bible.

Lev 7:21 Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable H8263 unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the LORD, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Lev 11:10
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination H8263 unto you:

Lev 11:11
They shall be even an abomination H8263 unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Lev 11:12
Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination H8263 unto you.

Lev 11:13
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: H8263 the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

Lev 11:20
All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination H8263 unto you.

Lev 11:23
But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination H8263 unto you.

Lev 11:41
And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; H8263 it shall not be eaten.

Lev 11:42
Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination. H8263

Isa 66:17
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, H8263 and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Eze 8:10
So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable H8263 beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.

Leviticus Chapter 11 from the first verse until the its last verse - 1 - 47 = 11 - teaches what is Clean = Food and what is unclean = not food. What is Holy, what is not holy-abominations

JESUS, He is the same yesterday today and forever, He changes not

The first 2 verses where the words "Be ye holy, for I am Holy" are found are in Leviticus chapter 11

>>>>

Verse 30391 | 1 Peter 1: 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am Holy.

30391 = The 3284th prime number

3) Verse 3284 | Leviticus 19:2

Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am Holy.


Search by the verse number - 1769 KJV - Prime Tool
https://31102bible.com

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Obedience required?
For what?

Of course, Scripturally, Under Grace, For Gentiles to Be Baptized By The [ One ] Spirit Baptism

Into The Body Of Christ, obedience is required For God's Eternal Salvation:​

Faith, trust, and belief Is obedience, Correct?:

"That we should be to the Praise of His Glory, who first trusted in Christ. In Whom ye ​

also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in Whom ​

also after that ye believed, ye Were Sealed With That Holy Spirit of Promise, Which Is The ​

Earnest of our inheritance Until The Redemption of The Purchased possession, Unto The ​

Praise Of His Glory." (Ephesians 1:12-14 AV) ​

+

"For By Grace Are ye Saved Through faith ; and That not of yourselves: ​

It Is The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast...." ​

(Ephesians 2:8-9 AV) ​

And, of course, obedience is required for rewards At Judgment, Correct?:

"...For we are His Workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, ​

which God Hath before Ordained that we should walk in them." ​

(Ephesians 2:10 AV) { All Grace commands in Romans - Philemon AV) }​

+
Obviously, unfaithful saints will not walk as they should, and disobedience of saints
will suffer loss [ critics say: "loss of Eternal Salvation = Eternal Condemnation" ],

But, testing the doctrine: "What Saith The Scriptures"? - Notice Paul's letter:

​

"...to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in ​

every place call upon The Name of Jesus Christ our Lord..." (1 Corinthians 1:2 AV) ​

An 'Eternally sanctified' but unfaithful saint?:

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that ​

the spirit may Be Saved In The [ Judgment ] Day of The Lord Jesus" ​

(1 Corinthians 5:5 AV) [ critics scream and cry = Impossible! ]:​

But, [ The "All things are Possible" ] God Says: "The Judgment Seat Of Christ":

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall​

receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers​

together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.​

According to The Grace Of God Which Is Given Unto me, as a wise masterbuilder,​

I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth Thereon. But let every man take​

heed how he buildeth Thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that​

is laid, Which Is Jesus Christ.​

​

Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver, precious stones, [ obedience? ]​

​

wood, hay, stubble; [ disobedience? ]​

​

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The Day Shall Declare it, because​

it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.​

​

If any man's work abide which he hath built Thereupon, he shall receive a reward.​

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved;​

yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)​

​

Conclusion: God's Truth, Under Grace = "Simplicity In Christ":

Yes, obedience is Required For Both Eternal Salvation And For rewards thereafter, eh?​

Also, testing: Not to be Mixed Up With / Homogenized With God's Law To Israel, Correct?​

-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[Yissachar]

>>>

abomination - Strong's Number H8263 matches the Hebrew שֶׁקֶץ (šeqeṣ), which occurs 11 times in 11 verses in the Hebrew Bible.

Lev 7:21 Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable H8263 unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the LORD, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Lev 11:10
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination H8263 unto you:

Lev 11:11
They shall be even an abomination H8263 unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Lev 11:12
Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination H8263 unto you.

Lev 11:13
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: H8263 the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

Lev 11:20
All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination H8263 unto you.

Lev 11:23
But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination H8263 unto you.

Lev 11:41
And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; H8263 it shall not be eaten.

Lev 11:42
Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination. H8263

Isa 66:17
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, H8263 and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Eze 8:10
So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable H8263 beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.

Leviticus Chapter 11 from the first verse until the its last verse - 1 - 47 = 11 - teaches what is Clean = Food and what is unclean = not food. What is Holy, what is not holy-abominations

JESUS, He is the same yesterday today and forever, He changes not

The first 2 verses where the words "Be ye holy, for I am Holy" are found are in Leviticus chapter 11

>>>>

30391 = The 3284th prime number

Verse 30391 | 1 Peter 1: 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am Holy.

3) Verse 3284 | Leviticus 19:2

Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am Holy.


Search by the verse number - 1769 KJV - Prime Tool
https://31102bible.com

30391 = The 3284th prime number

Verse 30391 | 1Peter 1:16

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am Holy.

Verse 3284 | Leviticus 19:2

Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am Holy.

>>

Verse 30391 = 16 | 1Peter 1:16 = 17+1 _ (33) 6 - (34) 7 ___ 2x17

Verse 3284 - 17 | Leviticus 19:2 = 21 _ (38) 11 = 2

16 + 17 (33) 6

17+21 (38) 11 = 2

33 + 38 (71) 8 - 20th prime 2

6 + 11 (17) 8 - 7th prime 7

7 + 2 = 9

2 + 7 = 9

 

[NightTwister]

I hate it when people don’t obey the law of gravity. It really irks me

It's not the falls that gets you, it's the sudden stop at the end.

 

[PastMyPrime]

Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him

I always wonder how people continue to believe they are saved anyway if they aren't obedient to the Lord.

Some come right out and say that obedience is not required for salvation even though that's not what the Word of the Lord says.

Apparently this is further proof that some among us openly reject some things the Lord says as they walk in disobedience.

Have you always been 100% in obedience?

 

[Burn1986]

Fair enough. If you meant that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is how a man is born of the Spirit, then my concern remains the same, but you're right that "be careful" may not have been the best wording.
The reason I responded that way is because I wasn't sure whether you were misspeaking or intentionally equating Spirit baptism with the new birth.
If you're intentionally making that identification, then I'd simply say I think you're wrong rather than merely needing caution.
My hesitation comes from the fact that many Christians distinguish between the new birth passages, such as John 3, and the baptism of the Spirit passages, such as Acts 1 and Acts 2. So the debate is not over whether a man must be born of the Spirit, but whether that is identical to what Scripture calls the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
In other words, my disagreement is not with the necessity of the Spirit's work in regeneration.
It's with the claim that regeneration and Spirit baptism are always the same event.

The tough part for a lot of Christians is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is usually after salvation. So you can have Christians go their whole lives without it, or without ever having that close close relationship.

 

[Churchgoer]

The tough part for a lot of Christians is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is usually after salvation. So you can have Christians go their whole lives without it, or without ever having that close close relationship.

How does one know he is baptized by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Churchgoer]

30391 = The 3284th prime number


30391 = The 3284th prime number

Verse 30391 | 1Peter 1:16

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am Holy.

Verse 3284 | Leviticus 19:2

Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am Holy.

>>

Verse 30391 = 16 | 1Peter 1:16 = 17+1 _ (33) 6 - (34) 7 ___ 2x17

Verse 3284 - 17 | Leviticus 19:2 = 21 _ (38) 11 = 2

16 + 17 (33) 6

17+21 (38) 11 = 2

33 + 38 (71) 8 - 20th prime 2

6 + 11 (17) 8 - 7th prime 7

7 + 2 = 9

2 + 7 = 9

Original Bible did not have verse number, chapters.

 

[Yissachar]

Original Bible did not have verse number, chapters.

What translation do you use?

If you are not using a Septuagint based translation, then you are trusting in a translation that relied heavily on vowel marks that were not in the original manuscripts, dots and dashes that were added to the Hebrew text by the Masoretes,

Ancient Hebrew was written with consonants only, Many Hebrew words have the same Consonants that could be read in multiple ways, and without the vowel marks many words would be indeterminable.

The Vowel marks, the dots and dashes that make translations possible were added to the scriptures by Jewish scribe-scholars.

The Numeric Evidence, Supernatural Symmetry is the Proof that YHWH orchestrated all of It.

Nothing is to hard for Him

Every good and perfect gift comes from Above.

Idols fit in boxes, The Almighty does not.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Like what are they not obedient to the Lord in? Drinking, drugs, porn?

Well see if you prayed and asked the Lord to show you from the New Testament what He teaches in His Word concerning disobedience you'd get answers and those answers are already in His Word.

Here's a hint for you though - many people are walking in disobedience without drinking, doing drugs, or doing porn.

 

[ScooterJackson]

When you claim obedience is required. you put focus on self.

No, the Lord teaches in His Word that obedience is required.
If I was still focused on self, I'd still be out there living in sin as a sinner like I was back in the day

Instead of judgi9ng other people. look to yourself.

Posting what God says in His Word is judging other people?
If true, then you believe Christians should not talk about God's Word?

The reformers have been taught they are born sinners and can never stop sinning so they don't want to hear the whole counsel of God that not only teaches how to not be in bondage to sin but also warned that in the end those that are sinners will be removed from the Lord's Kingdom.

So of course these people don't want to hear the whole counsel of God.

2 Timothy 4:3,4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Obedience is not "evidence" or proof that a person is saved. That is absurd.

And yet disobedience to the Lord makes a person a servant of satan by default.
We are called to walk in agreement with the Lord, not in agreement with the devil.

These are the only two options man has, obey the Lord or obey the devil.

Thinking that you are right with God because you believe you are obedient is poppycock.

Thinking that you are right with God because you are living in opposition to the Lord is poppycock.

Obedience required?
For what?

Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Yissachar]

Without further ado, right out of the blue, just for you— here’s a nugget!

Zephaniah 3:8 Is the only verse in all of the Hebrew scriptures that has all of the 22 Hebrew letters in their standard form, and the 5 final forms, sofit letters kaf (ך), mem (ם), nun (ן), pey (ף), and tsade (ץ)

לכן חכו לי נאם יהוה ליום קומי לעד כי משפטי לאסף גוים לקבצי ממלכות לשפך עליהם זעמי כל חרון אפי כי באש קנאתי תאכל כל הארץ

Zephaniah 3:8
Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith YAHUWAH, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

Zephaniah 3:9
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon The Name of YAHUWAH, to serve Him with one consent.

Shema Yisrael YAHUWAH Eloheinu YAHUWAH Echad

Baruch Haba b'Shem YAHUWAH ~ Ha Adonai YESHUA Mashiach

Does anyone want to take a guess what the Pure Language might be that His people will use in the future to call upon Him?

What could it possibly be?

If only God would have given us a hint.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, the Lord teaches in His Word that obedience is required.
If I was still focused on self, I'd still be out there living in sin as a sinner like I was back in the day

Tell that to the pharisees.

Posting what God says in His Word is judging other people?
If true, then you believe Christians should not talk about God's Word?

Just because you post Gods word does not mean anything. the pharisees could quote Gods word word for word. can you do this?

The reformers have been taught they are born sinners and can never stop sinning so they don't want to hear the whole counsel of God that not only teaches how to not be in bondage to sin but also warned that in the end those that are sinners will be removed from the Lord's Kingdom.

Ah.. Yes, I was one of those people.. I became like the tax collector..

did you?

So of course these people don't want to hear the whole counsel of God.

2 Timothy 4:3,4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Yes. these people have never met God..

Have you?

 

[Burn1986]

Well see if you prayed and asked the Lord to show you from the New Testament what He teaches in His Word concerning disobedience you'd get answers and those answers are already in His Word.

Here's a hint for you though - many people are walking in disobedience without drinking, doing drugs, or doing porn.

So I’m supposed to read your mind? Why not just put it in the original post?