Oh, okay! If it makes you feel better, God knows who obeys Him and resists sin through the Holy Spirit. Their accusations don't impact the obedient Christians' salvation.
Obedience REQUIRED
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Oh, okay! If it makes you feel better, God knows who obeys Him and resists sin through the Holy Spirit. Their accusations don't impact the obedient Christians' salvation.
If you are going to attack what I say, WRITE OUT ALL I SAID, and not just a piece of it.
The debate is whether the biblical warnings describe genuine believers losing salvation or people who were never truly saved in the first place. That's what I said. I don't mind debating issues with folks, But if you start twisting and cutting what ppl say. You are not worth replying to.
By your post you actually confirm that you do not comprehend Jesus Christ is THE Savior.
Christ in me.
Without Him being in me, I would still be a drunken drug addict, with unstoppable cravings.
Do you agree with me then on the fact that it is those without Christ in the that commit the sins ?
I have never suggested that a saved person is not to obey our Lord.
I strive to do so each day. Many times I fail. When I do I ask for forgiveness and I am thankful God will forgive and not cast me away.
But you are saying a saved person must be obedient, not sin , to keep himself saved.
That is works for salvatiom.
If you believe you live without sin, you are more confused than I thought.
Every time you say a saved person must be obedient to keep his salvation, you sin.
Balderdash.
So what if it "works" salvation, as long as it isn't the works of the Law for salvation, it doesn't matter.
Life is work, in case you haven't noticed.
Life in Christ is even more work; from resisting temptation and being merciful to the needy, to prayer and worship, its all labor !
Thankfully though, with Christ in us, the load is a light one.
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The only way I or anybody can obey is because of the Holy Spirit living with my spirit and I submit to His leadership. That is not working to be saved or keep myself saved, that is because I am saved.What if they're NOT earning their salvation but are already saved and just obeying God and resisting sin because the Holy Spirit has been causing them to do those things?
You can't accuse ALL who obey God and resist sin as working for their salvation. It may actually be the Holy Spirit doing His work in changing that person to Christlikeness.
But surely you do not believe you never fail.
If a person is trying to be obedient to be saved or to keep his salvation, he is being deceived by Satan.
Jesus is the only person that lived without sin.
The question is, Why are you doing those works?
Is it for salvation or because you love the one who died for your sins?
For one to believe they are entirely free of sin 24/7 (have no sin/have not sinned -1 John 1:8-10) blinds them to reality and confirms that the truth/His word is not in them.
Freed18, everyone in the flesh commits sin. But where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin is not imputed. Look at Romans 5:13, which states clearly that "sin is not imputed when there is no law." Further, Romans 4:15 says, "for where no law is, there is no transgression". Christ has removed His spiritual family from being under that jurisdiction; their sins will never be counted to their account - they have been fully justified by Christ. They are not by judged their actions but by Christ's and that is what makes Christ alone THE Savior and not them.
I do them because my Father's seed only brings forth good fruit.
And I do them so I will find my name in the book of life on the day of judgement.
There is no Christian who walks in the "flesh".
We all walk in the Spirit, the light-God, in whom is no sin-darkness.
First of all, which "flesh" do you refer to ?
Skin and bones, flesh ?
Or a worldly oriented mind, "flesh" ?
Skin and bones cannot make anybody commit sin.
But the worldy oriented mind sure can.
Second of all, who is the Law for ?
Doesn't Paul say it is for "the disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Tim 1:9-10) ?
If a man is doing those things, he is still under the Law.
Paul also writes..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)
Folks doing the works of "flesh" shall not inherit the kingdom of God; no matter what they label themselves.
I just rebuked a Sinless Perfection believer on this thread recently for not believing God when He included verses in the Bible that show we can't attain sinless perfection. And here you are automatically accusing me of a works salvation. You didn't read my posts before you came to this thread, but I already said that saved people are empowered to obey God and resist sin long before you showed up.
So like I said already, you can't automatically accuse every Christian who obeys God and resists sin of works salvation. There are such Christians who are saved who obey God and resist sin because of the Holy Spirit's work in them.
it doesn't impact their walk with God if you accuse them. It might make people who don't want to obey God feel smug, but God's people don't really want hang out with those people anyway,
To be in the flesh simply means to be in these earthly bodies.
Except for Jesus Christ, everyone born into this natural world through the seed of Adam is born under the law of sin and death, even from the womb. Consider the realities of salvation:
No matter what someone may do or not do, if he was part of God’s spiritual family from eternity past—one of God’s eternal children—then he will and must become saved. At the appointed time, God's children are individually taken by God out from under the law of sin and death and permanently placed by God under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. If they were not part of God’s family from eternity past, then no matter what they may do or not do, they can never become saved and will remain under the law of sin and death.
Jesus Christ alone is THE Savior, and man is not. Those saved are strictly the recipients of salvation, not co-participants/workers in obtaining or maintaining it. Look at the historical example of King David. He remains clear proof that a child of God stays saved in-spite of committing many grievous earthly sins. Becoming saved and remaining saved are entirely a spiritual family affair directed and governed by the Father but only for His spiritual children and for no others.
I was not addressing you. Sorry if I did not make myself clear.I just rebuked a Sinless Perfection believer on this thread recently for not believing God when He included verses in the Bible that show we can't attain sinless perfection. And here you are automatically accusing me of a works salvation. You didn't read my posts before you came to this thread, but I already said that saved people are empowered to obey God and resist sin long before you showed up.
So like I said already, you can't automatically accuse every Christian who obeys God and resists sin of works salvation. There are such Christians who are saved who obey God and resist sin because of the Holy Spirit's work in them.
it doesn't impact their walk with God if you accuse them. It might make people who don't want to obey God feel smug, but God's people don't really want hang out with those people anyway,
My post is to those who do believe that salvation is obtained and kept be being obedient, works.
Every true believer will strive to be obedient but will fail from time to time.
I also asked the question, "Why are you being striving to be obedient?"
If it is to keep your salvation. that is the wrong reason.
Every believer should submit to the Holy Spirit's leadership and do so because of our love for our Savior.
Not to obtain or keep one's salvation or even for a special blessing.
I am very sorry if I offended you.
According to Calvinism, it is not the seed nor the soil.
The issue is the sower of the seed.
The sower creates both the seed and the soil.
The sower creates good soil and bad soil, the soil has no say so about accepting or not accepting the seed.
The good soil was created to accept the seed and the bad soil was created to reject the seed.
This is the message of election.
I agree that all the saved should obey God.What if they're NOT earning their salvation but are already saved and just obeying God and resisting sin because the Holy Spirit has been causing them to do those things?
You can't accuse ALL who obey God and resist sin as working for their salvation. It may actually be the Holy Spirit doing His work in changing that person to Christlikeness.
But all will fail from time to time.
I do not believe a saved person can live without sin.
But a true believer will repent of that sin and will ask forgiveness.
I also believe a true believer will not "Live in sin", repeat the same sin over and over with no remorse.