More about Israel.

[Revelation1v8]

The promise was to Abraham and to his descendants. There was no religion, just followers of God, he went with his wife and nephew and a few others possibly servants, slaves etc.…

There was no such thing as Jews that was invented around 6/7 century at best.

Jeremiah 31: 31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant

(That implies that the previous convent has been abrogated – if a forever / everlasting covenant then no need for a new covenant)


Leviticus 25:23 The land, moreover, shall **not be sold permanently,** for the land is Mine; for you are but aliens and sojourners with Me.

(land is temporary)


Matt 21:43 Therefore, say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

(taken away)


There is no pure blood line as Jews like to portray, the bible clearly shows conversion, mixed marriages and after destruction most converted to Christianity and thereafter Islam – your talking thousands of years of mixing.

Tamar Canaanite, Ruth Moabite, Boaz, was the son of a prostitute, Rahab, Bathsheba Hittie to name a few.

(Abraham was to have many nations – not 1 race of Jews)

New Covenants don't make Old Covenants obsolete unless God says so. Here's the current status of the Old Covenants:

Jesus replaced the Mosaic Covenant because it was a temporal and conditional arrangement that Israel failed to keep, whereas the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are sovereign, unconditional, and eternal. The New Testament explicitly identifies the Mosaic Law as obsolete and replaced, while affirming that the promises to Abraham and David find their ultimate fulfillment in Christ without being terminated.

The Mosaic Covenant is described as the "Old Covenant" that is obsolete and ready to vanish away because it was broken by Israel. Jesus instituted the New Covenant, which supersedes the Mosaic system of law and sacrifice.

• Hebrews 8:13: "In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
• 2 Corinthians 3:11: "For if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with glory... will not the ministry of the Spirit have more glory?"
• Hebrews 7:18-19: "There is, then, a setting aside of a former commandment... for the law made nothing perfect, but a bringing in of a better hope does."
• Jeremiah 31:32: God states the New Covenant is not like the covenant He made with their fathers when He brought them out of Egypt (the Mosaic Covenant), "which they broke."

The Abrahamic Covenant is everlasting and unconditional. The Mosaic Law did not annul it but was a temporary addition (a "codicil") until Christ came. The New Covenant is essentially the fulfillment and extension of the Abrahamic promise to all nations.

• Galatians 3:17: "This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void."
• Genesis 17:7: "And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you... for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you."
• Hebrews 6:13-14: God swore by Himself to Abraham, promising to bless and multiply him, an oath that "cannot change, because it is impossible for God to lie."
• Galatians 3:29: "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

The Davidic Covenant guarantees an eternal throne for David’s lineage. Jesus, as the Messiah from David’s line, fulfills this promise by reigning forever, meaning the covenant is confirmed and perpetuated, not terminated.

• 2 Samuel 7:16: "And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever."
• Luke 1:32-33: "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High... and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
• Acts 2:30: "Being therefore a prophet and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne."
• Hebrews 1:8: Referring to the Son (Jesus), God says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever."

 

[Revelation1v8]

@Needevidence

Here is a continued list of Bible verses showing God/Jesus continuing to keep the Land Covenant promises to Israel:

• Genesis 12:1, 7; 13:14-15; 15:18; 17:7-8; 26:3-4; 28:13; 48:3-4; 50:24: The foundational unconditional promises of the land to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as an everlasting possession.
• Exodus 6:4, 8; 13:5; 33:1: Reaffirmations of the covenant oath to give the land of Canaan to the descendants of the patriarchs.
• Leviticus 26:42: God’s promise to remember His covenants with Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham, and consequently the land itself.
• Numbers 10:29; 11:12; 14:23-24; 32:11-12: References to the oath-bound promise of the land, noting that only Joshua and Caleb would enter due to faithfulness.
• Deuteronomy 1:8, 21; 4:1, 5, 14, 21-22; 6:10; 8:1, 7, 10; 9:1; 29:1; 31:20, 23: Moses’ repeated commands to possess the land and reminders of God’s sworn oath to their fathers.
• Joshua 1:2-6, 11, 15; 2:9; 5:6; 10:42; 11:23; 21:43-45; 22:4: Historical accounts of the initial fulfillment of the promise under Joshua, noting that "not a word failed."
• Judges 2:1: God’s reminder that He brought them into the land He swore to their fathers and will not break His covenant.
• 1 Kings 8:40; 2 Kings 21:8: Solomon’s prayer and God’s warning to Manasseh regarding the permanence of the land grant.
• Psalm 135:12; 136:21-22; 147:2: Praise for God giving the land as a heritage to His servant Israel.
• Isaiah 11:11-12; 14:1; 27:13; 43:5-6; 60:21; 66:22: Prophetic promises of regathering Israel to their land and their eternal possession of it.
• Jeremiah 16:14-15; 25:5; 30:3, 18; 31:35-37; 32:15, 41; 33:14: Prophetic assurances of return from captivity, restoration of possession, and the irrevocable nature of the land promise.
• Ezekiel 11:14-17; 20:33-38; 34:13; 36:24, 28; 37:21, 25; 39:25-26: Visions of spiritual and physical restoration, including the gathering of Israel from the nations to possess their own land.
• Hosea 3:4-5; 14:5-7: Promises of future repentance and restoration to dwell securely in the land.
• Joel 3:1-2, 17-18: Prophecies concerning the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem and their eternal security in the land.
• Amos 9:14-15: The promise to plant Israel in their land so they shall no longer be uprooted.
• Micah 4:1-2, 6-7; 5:7-8: Visions of the latter days where Israel will dwell securely in their land.
• Obadiah 1:17, 20: Prophecy of Israel’s possession of the lands of their adversaries.
• Habakkuk 3:13: Reference to God’s anointed one and the land.
• Zephaniah 3:19-20: Promise to restore fortunes and gather Israel, causing them to be praised in all the earth.
• Haggai 2:7: God’s promise to shake the nations and fill the land with glory.
• Zechariah 8:3-8, 10-15; 9:8, 12; 10:6-10: Promises of Jerusalem’s restoration, the regathering of Judah and Joseph, and their dwelling securely in the land.
• Malachi 3:10; 4:1-3: Final prophetic references to blessings in the land and the day of the Lord.
• Matthew 19:28 / Luke 22:29–30 — Jesus says that when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, the apostles will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
• Acts 1:6–7 — The disciples ask Jesus directly, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" He does not deny it; He only says the timing is the Father's to determine.
• Acts 3:21 — Peter declares that Jesus "must remain in heaven until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old."
• Acts 15:14–17 — James quotes Amos 9:11–12: "After these things I will return and rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen… so that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord."
• Romans 11:25–29 — Paul explains that Israel's blindness is partial and temporary; "all Israel will be saved" (v. 26), and "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (v. 29).
• Luke 1:32–33 — The angel tells Mary that the Lord God will give Jesus the throne of his father David and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever.

 

[Needevidence]

New Covenants don't make Old Covenants obsolete unless God says so. Here's the current status of the Old Covenants:

Jesus replaced the Mosaic Covenant because it was a temporal and conditional arrangement that Israel failed to keep, whereas the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are sovereign, unconditional, and eternal. The New Testament explicitly identifies the Mosaic Law as obsolete and replaced, while affirming that the promises to Abraham and David find their ultimate fulfillment in Christ without being terminated.

The Mosaic Covenant is described as the "Old Covenant" that is obsolete and ready to vanish away because it was broken by Israel. Jesus instituted the New Covenant, which supersedes the Mosaic system of law and sacrifice.

• Hebrews 8:13: "In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
• 2 Corinthians 3:11: "For if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with glory... will not the ministry of the Spirit have more glory?"
• Hebrews 7:18-19: "There is, then, a setting aside of a former commandment... for the law made nothing perfect, but a bringing in of a better hope does."
• Jeremiah 31:32: God states the New Covenant is not like the covenant He made with their fathers when He brought them out of Egypt (the Mosaic Covenant), "which they broke."

The Abrahamic Covenant is everlasting and unconditional. The Mosaic Law did not annul it but was a temporary addition (a "codicil") until Christ came. The New Covenant is essentially the fulfillment and extension of the Abrahamic promise to all nations.

• Galatians 3:17: "This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void."
• Genesis 17:7: "And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you... for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you."
• Hebrews 6:13-14: God swore by Himself to Abraham, promising to bless and multiply him, an oath that "cannot change, because it is impossible for God to lie."
• Galatians 3:29: "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

The Davidic Covenant guarantees an eternal throne for David’s lineage. Jesus, as the Messiah from David’s line, fulfills this promise by reigning forever, meaning the covenant is confirmed and perpetuated, not terminated.

• 2 Samuel 7:16: "And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever."
• Luke 1:32-33: "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High... and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
• Acts 2:30: "Being therefore a prophet and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne."
• Hebrews 1:8: Referring to the Son (Jesus), God says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever."

Your missing the point none of the covenants are - everlasting / forever - that’s a misunderstanding of the word 'olam' which correctly implies 'long duration'

 

[Revelation1v8]

Your missing the point none of the covenants are - everlasting / forever - that’s a misunderstanding of the word 'olam' which correctly implies 'long duration'

They are everlasting as long as the earth exists, which is why the Bible says...

Jeremiah 31:35-36

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

We see God/Jesus fulfilling His promises to Israel on the earth after His return. The Bible says that Jesus will be King over all the earth in Zechariah 14:9. In Revelation 20, it's referred to as the 1,000 years (otherwise known as the Covenant of Peace in the OT) or what theology calls the Millennial Kingdom period on earth.

As Revelation 20 shows, once that 1,000 years on earth are over, all are judged, Satan, Hell and Death are thrown into the Lake of Fire and then we see the Millennial Kingdom on earth transition to the Kingdom of Heaven in Revelation 21 and 22.

--

 

[Needevidence]

They are everlasting as long as the earth exists, which is why the Bible says...

Jeremiah 31:35-36

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

We see God/Jesus fulfilling His promises to Israel on the earth after His return. The Bible says that Jesus will be King over all the earth in Zechariah 14:9. In Revelation 20, it's referred to as the 1,000 years (otherwise known as the Covenant of Peace in the OT) or what theology calls the Millennial Kingdom period on earth.

As Revelation 20 shows, once that 1,000 years on earth are over, all are judged, Satan, Hell and Death are thrown into the Lake of Fire and then we see the Millennial Kingdom on earth transition to the Kingdom of Heaven in Revelation 21 and 22.

--

Show we where it says ‘unconditional’ in the OT?

Of course a new covenant makes the previous obsolete - an additional covenant is different

Jer 31:31-32 “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors (so change to the covenant NOT addition)


The covenant came with a condition;

exodus 19:5-6 – “if you obey me fully and keep my covenant,..”


Deut 11:26-27 - 26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse—

27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today;

28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.

Jeramiah 11:10 – they have turned back going after other Gods – how could they have broken my covenant

 

[Churchgoer]

Show we where it says ‘unconditional’ in the OT?

Of course a new covenant makes the previous obsolete - an additional covenant is different

Jer 31:31-32 “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors (so change to the covenant NOT addition)


The covenant came with a condition;

exodus 19:5-6 – “if you obey me fully and keep my covenant,..”


Deut 11:26-27 - 26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse—

27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today;

28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.

Jeramiah 11:10 – they have turned back going after other Gods – how could they have broken my covenant

Exactly .

 

[Revelation1v8]

Show we where it says ‘unconditional’ in the OT?

Of course a new covenant makes the previous obsolete - an additional covenant is different

Jer 31:31-32 “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors (so change to the covenant NOT addition)


The covenant came with a condition;

exodus 19:5-6 – “if you obey me fully and keep my covenant,..”


Deut 11:26-27 - 26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse—

27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today;

28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.

Jeramiah 11:10 – they have turned back going after other Gods – how could they have broken my covenant

Galatians 3 spells it out for you:

Galatians 3:14-18

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

God made a promise to Abraham before Jacob/Israel came into being. He upholds his promises for two reasons. One for the sake of the fathers, and one for His own names' sake.

For the Sake of the Fathers:

• Genesis 26:24 – "I am the God of your father Abraham; do not fear... I will bless you and multiply your descendants for My servant Abraham's sake."
• Psalm 105:42 – "For He remembered His holy promise, And Abraham His servant," leading to the deliverance of Israel.
• Luke 1:73 – Zechariah prophesies that God granted salvation "The oath which He swore to our father Abraham."
• Deuteronomy 29:13 – God establishes His people "just as He has sworn to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
• Isaiah 45:4 – "For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name; I name you, though you do not know me."
• 2 Kings 13:23 – "But the LORD was gracious to them and had compassion on them, and he turned toward them because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them, nor has he cast them from his presence until now."
• Leviticus 26:42 – "Then I will remember the covenant with Jacob, my covenant with Isaac, and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land."
• Leviticus 26:45 – "But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out from the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the LORD.
• Isaiah 41:8–9 – "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham my friend — I brought you from the ends of the earth... I have chosen you and not cast you off."
• Ezekiel 16:60–63 – "I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you... I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall know that I am the LORD."

For God's Own Sake and His Name:

Here are the verses where God explicitly says He acts for Israel for His own sake — not for their merit, not for the patriarchs, but for His own name and holiness:

• Ezekiel 36:22–23 – "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them."
• Isaiah 43:25 – "I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins."
• 1 Samuel 12:22 – "For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name's sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you a people for himself."
• Ezekiel 20:9 – "But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations among whom they lived, in whose sight I made myself known to them in bringing them out of the land of Egypt."
• Isaiah 48:11 – "For my own sake, for my own sake I will do this; for how should my name be defiled? And I will not give my glory to another."
• Ezekiel 20:41 – "For my own sake I will act, in order to vindicate the holiness of my great name, which was profaned among the nations, the name which you have profaned among them."
• Ezekiel 38:23 – "I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which the nations have profaned among them, and the nations will know that I am the Lord."
• Psalm 79:9 – "Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of your name; deliver us, and atone for our sins, for your name's sake!"
• Psalm 106:8 – "Yet he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make known his mighty power."
• 2 Kings 19:34 / Isaiah 37:35 – "I will defend this city to save it, for my own sake and for the sake of my servant David."
• Jeremiah 14:21 – "Do not abhor us, for your name's sake, do not disgrace the throne of your glory; remember, break not your covenant with us."

---

 

[Needevidence]

Galatians 3 spells it out for you:

Galatians 3:14-18

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

God made a promise to Abraham before Jacob/Israel came into being. He upholds his promises for two reasons. One for the sake of the fathers, and one for His own names' sake.

For the Sake of the Fathers:

• Genesis 26:24 – "I am the God of your father Abraham; do not fear... I will bless you and multiply your descendants for My servant Abraham's sake."
• Psalm 105:42 – "For He remembered His holy promise, And Abraham His servant," leading to the deliverance of Israel.
• Luke 1:73 – Zechariah prophesies that God granted salvation "The oath which He swore to our father Abraham."
• Deuteronomy 29:13 – God establishes His people "just as He has sworn to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
• Isaiah 45:4 – "For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name; I name you, though you do not know me."
• 2 Kings 13:23 – "But the LORD was gracious to them and had compassion on them, and he turned toward them because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them, nor has he cast them from his presence until now."
• Leviticus 26:42 – "Then I will remember the covenant with Jacob, my covenant with Isaac, and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land."
• Leviticus 26:45 – "But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out from the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the LORD.
• Isaiah 41:8–9 – "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham my friend — I brought you from the ends of the earth... I have chosen you and not cast you off."
• Ezekiel 16:60–63 – "I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you... I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall know that I am the LORD."

For God's Own Sake and His Name:

Here are the verses where God explicitly says He acts for Israel for His own sake — not for their merit, not for the patriarchs, but for His own name and holiness:

• Ezekiel 36:22–23 – "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them."
• Isaiah 43:25 – "I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins."
• 1 Samuel 12:22 – "For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name's sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you a people for himself."
• Ezekiel 20:9 – "But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations among whom they lived, in whose sight I made myself known to them in bringing them out of the land of Egypt."
• Isaiah 48:11 – "For my own sake, for my own sake I will do this; for how should my name be defiled? And I will not give my glory to another."
• Ezekiel 20:41 – "For my own sake I will act, in order to vindicate the holiness of my great name, which was profaned among the nations, the name which you have profaned among them."
• Ezekiel 38:23 – "I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which the nations have profaned among them, and the nations will know that I am the Lord."
• Psalm 79:9 – "Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of your name; deliver us, and atone for our sins, for your name's sake!"
• Psalm 106:8 – "Yet he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make known his mighty power."
• 2 Kings 19:34 / Isaiah 37:35 – "I will defend this city to save it, for my own sake and for the sake of my servant David."
• Jeremiah 14:21 – "Do not abhor us, for your name's sake, do not disgrace the throne of your glory; remember, break not your covenant with us."

---

I never said the promise to Abraham – he was promised many nations – he had at least 8 sons and who knows how many other children. Ishmael was promised 12 princess who would become great nations, we don’t know what happened to the other children and what nations they had. Jesus was to come from Isaac. Abraham was not a Jew nor was anyone else at best after Jacob they were Israelites his race. So, no issues and no problem they were blessed as they were righteous people.

However;

• There doesn’t need to be a new covenant if the previous is forever
• How can you break if its everlasting - Isaiah 24:5 - The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting (‘ō·w·lām) covenant. (clearly there must be conditions to break)
• There is no such thing or word as everlasting as they understand everything will come to an end at its appointed time. I very good example of it not being forever / everlasting is;

Isaiah 32: 14 For the palace will be forsaken, the busy city abandoned. The hill and the watchtower will become caves **forever (‘ō-w-lām)**—the delight of wild donkeys and a pasture for flocks—

15 **until** the Spirit is poured out upon us from on high. Then the desert will be an orchard, and the orchard will seem like a forest.


You cannot have ‘forever’ in para 14 then the first word in para 15 it says ‘until’ – clearly shown it a duration before something else happens.

 

[Revelation1v8]

I never said the promise to Abraham – he was promised many nations – he had at least 8 sons and who knows how many other children. Ishmael was promised 12 princess who would become great nations, we don’t know what happened to the other children and what nations they had. Jesus was to come from Isaac. Abraham was not a Jew nor was anyone else at best after Jacob they were Israelites his race. So, no issues and no problem they were blessed as they were righteous people.

However;

• There doesn’t need to be a new covenant if the previous is forever
• How can you break if its everlasting - Isaiah 24:5 - The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting (‘ō·w·lām) covenant. (clearly there must be conditions to break)
• There is no such thing or word as everlasting as they understand everything will come to an end at its appointed time. I very good example of it not being forever / everlasting is;

Isaiah 32: 14 For the palace will be forsaken, the busy city abandoned. The hill and the watchtower will become caves **forever (‘ō-w-lām)**—the delight of wild donkeys and a pasture for flocks—

15 **until** the Spirit is poured out upon us from on high. Then the desert will be an orchard, and the orchard will seem like a forest.


You cannot have ‘forever’ in para 14 then the first word in para 15 it says ‘until’ – clearly shown it a duration before something else happens.

Do some research on why "forever" only means until the end of that time period.

The word "forever" in English translations of the Bible often does not mean infinite, endless duration because it is a translation of the Hebrew olam and the Greek aion, which literally refer to a long duration, an age, or a limited period of time with a beginning and an end. For example, biblical texts use these terms for events that clearly ended, such as a servant’s lifetime, the duration of the Mosaic Covenant, or a Jubilee period, indicating that the original languages emphasized permanence within a specific context rather than absolute, timeless eternity.

Jeremiah 30:18 -

"Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof."

Jeremiah 31:31-34, 38-40

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

 

[Revelation1v8]

@Needevidence, here are some tips on how to read prophecy in the Bible the way it was written.

The Bible intermingles prophecy and time periods to relay separate events primarily because prophetic pronouncements often combine near-term historical events with distant future fulfillments without chronological ordering. This literary structure, known as multiple fulfillment or dual fulfillment, allows ancient prophets to merge local, immediate events affecting Israel with end-time cosmic events relating to the Kingdom of God.

Key reasons for this intermingling include:

• Prophetic Perspective: Prophets viewed history through a lens that saw the "elevated summits" of events while skipping the "valleys" of common history between them. This created an apotelesmatic view where the beginning of end-time events and the end itself are bound together, separated by an indeterminate period often called a gap or intercalation.
• Emphasis on Certainty: The use of the prophetic past (describing future events in past tense) and blending timelines emphasizes that God’s plan is as certain as history already written, reflecting His sovereignty over time.
• Literary Culture: Ancient biblical literature prioritized thematic and theological connections over strict chronological precision, allowing prophecies about the Messiah’s first and second comings to appear side-by-side.
• Unified Scripture: Dual fulfillments help unify Scripture by showing how historical events (like the destruction of Jerusalem) serve as foreshadowings or types of future eschatological events (like the Day of the Lord).
  
  
  --
  
  

 

[Needevidence]

@Needevidence, here are some tips on how to read prophecy in the Bible the way it was written.

The Bible intermingles prophecy and time periods to relay separate events primarily because prophetic pronouncements often combine near-term historical events with distant future fulfillments without chronological ordering. This literary structure, known as multiple fulfillment or dual fulfillment, allows ancient prophets to merge local, immediate events affecting Israel with end-time cosmic events relating to the Kingdom of God.

Key reasons for this intermingling include:

• Prophetic Perspective: Prophets viewed history through a lens that saw the "elevated summits" of events while skipping the "valleys" of common history between them. This created an apotelesmatic view where the beginning of end-time events and the end itself are bound together, separated by an indeterminate period often called a gap or intercalation.
• Emphasis on Certainty: The use of the prophetic past (describing future events in past tense) and blending timelines emphasizes that God’s plan is as certain as history already written, reflecting His sovereignty over time.
• Literary Culture: Ancient biblical literature prioritized thematic and theological connections over strict chronological precision, allowing prophecies about the Messiah’s first and second comings to appear side-by-side.
• Unified Scripture: Dual fulfillments help unify Scripture by showing how historical events (like the destruction of Jerusalem) serve as foreshadowings or types of future eschatological events (like the Day of the Lord).
  
  
  --
  

Done my research long time ago thank you – that’s the main point I was making to you, that ‘olam’ is not ‘forever’ – so we agree on that. You seemed to be imply these covenants are ‘forever’.



Jer 30:18 – “bring again” – just shows the point I’m arguing –

Jer 31:32 – “they brake”

New covenant, broken covenant, bring again, etc… changed, made obsolete, new.

The rest you are just repeating and your opinion, ignoring the points I have made.

Not sure what point you are trying to make now, please clarify!



Consider Matt 22 Parable of the Wedding Banquet


Matthew 22:1-10 - for ease of reference

22 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:

2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.

3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.

6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. (bible says they often killed the prophets)

7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come.

9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’

10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.


The Israelites were invited, they refused and killed Gods servants, God destroyed then and others were invited (Gentiles).

So what covenant was still ongoing if God destroyed them?

 

[Revelation1v8]

Done my research long time ago thank you – that’s the main point I was making to you, that ‘olam’ is not ‘forever’ – so we agree on that. You seemed to be imply these covenants are ‘forever’.



Jer 30:18 – “bring again” – just shows the point I’m arguing –

Jer 31:32 – “they brake”

New covenant, broken covenant, bring again, etc… changed, made obsolete, new.

The rest you are just repeating and your opinion, ignoring the points I have made.

Not sure what point you are trying to make now, please clarify!



Consider Matt 22 Parable of the Wedding Banquet


Matthew 22:1-10 - for ease of reference

22 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:

2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.

3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.

6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. (bible says they often killed the prophets)

7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come.

9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’

10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.


The Israelites were invited, they refused and killed Gods servants, God destroyed then and others were invited (Gentiles).

So what covenant was still ongoing if God destroyed them?

As I have ALREADY told you, the Bible says that Israel will remain a nation under God until the sun and the moon are no longer. He will FULFILL ALL of His promises to them. When they are complete, then you will see the Kingdom of Heaven come in, which is TRULY FOREVER.

John 24:44 -

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

And like anything and anyone else, there will still be unbelievers after Jesus returns, but He also pours out His Spirit on the REMNANT AGAIN in Zechariah 13:1, 9 and Ezekiel 36:25-28 AND THROUGH THEM, WILL GOD FULFILL THOSE PROMISES. He will give then ALL of the land and allow them to live in the land for 1,000 years to rebuild and reproduce. Once that period is over, then you'll see the Kingdom of Heaven come in.

--

 

[Revelation1v8]

The Israelites were invited, they refused and killed Gods servants, God destroyed then and others were invited (Gentiles).

So what covenant was still ongoing if God destroyed them?

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

--

 

[Needevidence]

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

--

You seem to be fixated one part ignoring the rest.

This was metaphorically written as with much OT writing. Jeremiah ‘New Covenant’ not like the previous one, implies that the previous is obsolete. The Israelites returned after Jeremiah - Hasmonean Kingdom returned the Israelites, they were conquered by Rome this time. Jesus came to them to put them on track but they rejected him and so the Kingdom was taken from them and the gentiles invited.

Was the wedding banquet not Jesus saying that God destroyed the Israelites and invited the gentiles?

Are they still the chosen when they have after the covenants been rejected?

 

[Revelation1v8]

You seem to be fixated one part ignoring the rest.

This was metaphorically written as with much OT writing. Jeremiah ‘New Covenant’ not like the previous one, implies that the previous is obsolete. The Israelites returned after Jeremiah - Hasmonean Kingdom returned the Israelites, they were conquered by Rome this time. Jesus came to them to put them on track but they rejected him and so the Kingdom was taken from them and the gentiles invited.

Was the wedding banquet not Jesus saying that God destroyed the Israelites and invited the gentiles?

Are they still the chosen when they have after the covenants been rejected?

There's where you are making your mistake because you don't know how to read prophecy like I explained above.

Those prophecies are showing you a future promise when God/Jesus returns to pour out His Spirit on them AGAIN like Zechariah 13:1 and Ezekiel 36:25-28 shows you.

You too have to read scripture as a WHOLE and not just parts of it as a singular event, like this:

And here's what the WHOLE of Scripture says:

The New Covenant is explicitly promised to the House of Israel and House of Judah in Jeremiah 31:31–34, establishing a future era where God’s law is written on their hearts and their sins are forgiven. This covenant is distinct from the Mosaic Covenant because it is unconditional and ensures Israel’s permanent restoration to their land, as detailed in Jeremiah 32:37–41 and Ezekiel 36:24–28.

The fulfillment of these promises is tied to the Millennial Kingdom, where Jesus Christ reigns as King, Israel is regathered, and the land boundaries are restored to their full extent from the Nile to the Euphrates. Key verses demonstrating this include:

• Jeremiah 31:31–34: God promises a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah, writing His law on their hearts.
• Jeremiah 32:37–41: God promises to gather Israel from all nations, bring them back to the land, and make an everlasting covenant with them.
• Ezekiel 36:24–28: God promises to gather Israel from the nations, cleanse them, give them a new heart and spirit, and settle them in their own land.
• Jeremiah 33:14–26: The new covenant is linked to the Davidic throne, promising an everlasting kingdom and descendants for David.
• Zechariah 14:9: The Lord will reign over all the earth, with Jerusalem as His capital, during the Messianic Kingdom.
• Genesis 15:18: God establishes the boundary of the land promise to Abraham’s descendants from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates.
• Romans 11:26: The Apostle Paul states that “all Israel shall be saved,” fulfilling the covenant promises.
• Hebrews 8:6–13: Quotes Jeremiah 31, confirming the New Covenant is established with the house of Israel and Judah.
• Isaiah 11:11–12: Prophesies the Lord’s second hand to recover the remnant of His people from the nations.
• Ezekiel 37:21–22: God promises to take the Israelites from the nations and bring them back to their own land, uniting them as one nation.
• Amos 9:14–15 — "I will also plant them on their land, and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them."
• Jeremiah 16:14–17 — A regathering surpassing the Exodus: "I will bring them back from the land of the north and from all the countries where I banished them."
• Jeremiah 23:3–8 — God gathers the remnant from all exile lands, appoints shepherds, and raises the righteous Branch from David: "Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety."
• Jeremiah 24:6–7 — "I will bring them back to this land… I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord."
• Ezekiel 11:17 — "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel."
• Ezekiel 20:33–38 — God brings Israel out of exile and into the land.
• Ezekiel 39:27–29 — "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God… I will leave none of them there any longer."
• Isaiah 27:12–13 — God threshes Israel from the Euphrates to Egypt, gathering with a great trumpet blast.
• Zephaniah 2:1–2 — A worldwide regathering before the day of the Lord.
• Ezekiel 11:14–20 — God promises to give them "one heart, and put a new spirit within them," removing their "heart of stone," and bringing them back to the land.
• Ezekiel 36:8–15 — The land itself is restored: it becomes fruitful, the cities are rebuilt, and the desolate places are tilled.

---

 

[Revelation1v8]

Was the wedding banquet not Jesus saying that God destroyed the Israelites and invited the gentiles?

Are they still the chosen when they have after the covenants been rejected?

No, the wedding banquet doesn't take place until after every last Jew/Gentile that God/Jesus plans on redeeming from the earth, which will not be completed until the end of the Millennial Kingdom period, before the Kingdom of Heaven arrives.

Yes, they are still considered the "chosen", but God/Jesus only saves a remnant of them from Zechariah 13:8-9 to start His Millennial Kingdom with, in order for them to repopulate in peace and without oppression.

"Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."

--

 

[Needevidence]

No, the wedding banquet doesn't take place until after every last Jew/Gentile that God/Jesus plans on redeeming from the earth, which will not be completed until the end of the Millennial Kingdom period, before the Kingdom of Heaven arrives.

Yes, they are still considered the "chosen", but God/Jesus only saves a remnant of them from Zechariah 13:8-9 to start His Millennial Kingdom with, in order for them to repopulate in peace and without oppression.

"Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."

--

Nope - Jesus was clear the Kingdom is over and the gentiles are called.

On whta basis does the wedding banquet relate to the end times?



Is Abraham circumcision covenant ‘forever’?


Gen 17:13-14 –

13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. **My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting [owlam / root olam] covenant.**

14 And the **uncircumcised** man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath **broken my covenant.**

 

[HeIsHere]

You seem to be fixated one part ignoring the rest.

This was metaphorically written as with much OT writing. Jeremiah ‘New Covenant’ not like the previous one, implies that the previous is obsolete. The Israelites returned after Jeremiah - Hasmonean Kingdom returned the Israelites, they were conquered by Rome this time. Jesus came to them to put them on track but they rejected him and so the Kingdom was taken from them and the gentiles invited.

Was the wedding banquet not Jesus saying that God destroyed the Israelites and invited the gentiles?

Are they still the chosen when they have after the covenants been rejected?

I think we can qualify the "unbelieving Isrealites"

This is where dispensationalism falls apart, the first believer were Jews and there were many.

 

[Needevidence]

I think we can qualify the "unbelieving Isrealites"

This is where dispensationalism falls apart, the first believer were Jews and there were many.

Hi hope you are well - after all this time still dealing with the same arguments

 

[HeIsHere]

Hi hope you are well - after all this time still dealing with the same arguments

I am well, nice to see you posting again, yes same ole some ole, there are some variations but still that false "dispensationalism" of two peoples carries on.