Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Revelation1v8]

Abraham is also the father of many nations, not only through Ishmael and the children of Keturah, but spiritually through the gospel of Christ.

The seed of Ishmael was not called to inherit the land.

According to biblical texts, the covenant promises and the specific inheritance of the Promised Land were established exclusively through Isaac, not Ishmael. God explicitly rejected Abraham’s plea to bless Ishmael with the covenant, stating, "But my covenant will I establish with Isaac" (Genesis 17:21). While Ishmael was blessed with fruitfulness and became a great nation, he was bypassed as the heir of the Abrahamic covenant, which designates the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession for the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Biblical Narrative: Ishmael received other blessings and lands outside the specific covenant of Canaan, such as the wilderness of Paran, and was circumcised but excluded from the primary covenant line.

--

 

[Revelation1v8]

These all inherit the new heavens and new earth together with Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
It is the same inheritance.

Yes, anyone can inherit the new heaven and new earth who come to God/Jesus through faith. That doesn't mean that any of us were intended to inherit the promised land, although we will inherit the rest of the earth during the 1,000 years mentioned in Revelation 20 and throughout the Old Testament. Then we will see the new heaven and earth come into existence and none of it will matter.

---

 

[God-fearing]

Could God’s word be any clearer? The Kingdom of God was theirs but they rejected their appointed High Priest and had him put to death as an imposter….a blasphemer! Why would God bless a nation who did not ever obey him for longer than five minutes? And who disrespected him and murdered his appointed Savior! Read the whole of Matt ch 23 and see what Jesus said about the leaders of his own people.

The “nation bringing forth its fruits” were founded on the Jewish followers of Christ Jesus…..the entirety of the NT was written by them and yet, they were all natural Jews…a “remnant” of that nation, that would be saved, as it was foretold. (Rom 9:27)
What did God change in these natural Jews that joined them to the gentiles that were invited to replace a disobedient nation? (Acts 15:14) “A people for his name”.

Gal 6:15-16 NASB…
“For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.”

Christ’s anointed disciples were to be a “new creation”….no longer bound by Israel’s laws, (such as circumcision) these would operate under a “new covenant” and they would be a peaceful people and from among them “the Israel of God” were chosen….as “ a royal priesthood and a holy nation”…..so all saved ones would include both Jewish and Gentile Christians.

Jesus himself said to the Jewish leaders….and by extension, those who adhered to their teachings and condoned their conduct….
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” (Matt 23:37-39 NASB)

A sad lament…
He was quoting Psalm 118: 26 and in the Jewish Tanakh, God’s name, “Yahweh” is there in the text, twice..

26Blessed be he who has come in the name of the Lord; we have blessed you from the house of the Lord.

[td width="376.625px"]
כובָּר֣וּךְ הַ֖בָּא בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהֹוָ֑ה בֵּֽ֜רַכְנוּכֶ֗ם מִבֵּ֥ית יְהֹוָֽה:

[/td]​

So they needed to bless the one who came “in Yahweh’s name” back then, as well as today…..something the natural Jews have refused to do for thousands of years. Stubborn and unmovable as they have always been, counting on their lineage to Abraham as if their disobedience means nothing. (Matt 3:7-10; Matt 21:43)

There is not going to be any last minute miracle as the people of that nation have had as much, if not more notice of God’s intentions….and to identify their Messiah from their own Scripture.
They have unsanctioned blood on their hands. (Isa 1:15)
Their failure will cost them dearly.

The leopard has not changed its spots. Yet anyone from any nation is acceptable to God if they follow the teachings of God’s Son. No nationality is excluded….we are to preach the gospel (good news) to “people of all nations” …”and then the end will come.” (Matt 24:14)

So the prayers and pleas of Jesus to forgive and the repeated statements of no man takes my life I lay it down for I have that power and also the power to pick it up again is null and void?
Isaiah 53 8 says it pleased the lord to bruise him. Also it was told before hand that Jesus would be rejected.
Pslams 22 is a clear picture of that rejection.
Jesus rebukes Peter aka Satan when Peter protest against Jesus's fate.
The duel ministry that Christ had and has as Jewish messiah and savior of the Gentiles will come to pass. Fulfilling all that was promised.
God siad he will do it for his name sake, are you saying his name remains marred forever?
Jesus is the high priest according to Melchizedek which is mercy triumph over judgment.
God himself shall come to tabernacle with his people in the end. All of the old shall pass away.

 

[cv5]

That depends on which “Israel” you are referring to….if you have been following the thread, it becomes very apparent that fleshly Israel have never lived up to God’s purpose for them and they therefore, by their own disobedience, lost their place in his Kingdom arrangement.

After Israel’s abject failure to accept their Messiah, and ridding themselves of that thorn in their side, God then “turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name” (Acts 15:14)
Spiritual Israel became the nation that God chose to replace the ones who failed him throughout their entire history. He fulfilled all those prophesies by replacing an unfaithful “Israel” with a faithful one.. (Matt 21:33-29; 41-43)

If you are looking to the literal land which Israel was once gifted, but abandoned, then you are looking at the wrong place and the wrong people. What status did Israel occupy when they failed to obey their God?
How harshly punished were they at those times? Is Israel in God’s good books today? Do those who occupy that land as Israelis, claim to be Jewish by religion? Is God fighting for them?

In times past when Israel was defending her territory, did they need the assistance from worldly nations to come to their aid, even when they were greatly outnumbered?
The biblical answer is NO! If God fought for Israel, no nation, no matter how powerful, could defeat them.

That land today is saturated with innocent blood…unholy to God.


Can you show me how this response answers anything in my post?
What does this passage mean to you?

All that we really need from you is to fully explain what is being RESTORED here.
You might as well exegete the UNTIL statements as well. If you can.....

BTW, your post is filled with opinions and complaints but no actual proofs.
So it is with all RT's.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Mat 17:11
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Act 3:21
“whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luk 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Act 1:3
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the ***kingdom to Israel***?

Mat 17:11
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Act 3:21
“whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Act 15:16
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Mat 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Act 15:16
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

 

[cv5]

God/Jesus pours out His Spirit on them in Zechariah 13:1. Personally, I suggest you read all of Zechariah, chapters 12 through 14 to understand WHAT will happen and WHY it will happen after Jesus returns.

Nope they will not read those chapters.
Nor any others such as these that complement and amplify them.
They MUST jettison 30% of the Bible in order to keep their RT hoax going.

Frankly, I have much pity for their plight and blindness.
But, they have chosen their path, tragic though it may be.

Hos 5:14
For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

Hos 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

 

[cv5]

Could God’s word be any clearer? The Kingdom of God was theirs but they rejected their appointed High Priest and had him put to death as an imposter….a blasphemer! Why would God bless a nation who did not ever obey him for longer than five minutes? And who disrespected him and murdered his appointed Savior! Read the whole of Matt ch 23 and see what Jesus said about the leaders of his own people.

The “nation bringing forth its fruits” were founded on the Jewish followers of Christ Jesus…..the entirety of the NT was written by them and yet, they were all natural Jews…a “remnant” of that nation, that would be saved, as it was foretold. (Rom 9:27)
What did God change in these natural Jews that joined them to the gentiles that were invited to replace a disobedient nation? (Acts 15:14) “A people for his name”.

Gal 6:15-16 NASB…
“For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.”

Christ’s anointed disciples were to be a “new creation”….no longer bound by Israel’s laws, (such as circumcision) these would operate under a “new covenant” and they would be a peaceful people and from among them “the Israel of God” were chosen….as “ a royal priesthood and a holy nation”…..so all saved ones would include both Jewish and Gentile Christians.

Jesus himself said to the Jewish leaders….and by extension, those who adhered to their teachings and condoned their conduct….
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” (Matt 23:37-39 NASB)

A sad lament…
He was quoting Psalm 118: 26 and in the Jewish Tanakh, God’s name, “Yahweh” is there in the text, twice..

26Blessed be he who has come in the name of the Lord; we have blessed you from the house of the Lord.

[td width="376.625px"]
כובָּר֣וּךְ הַ֖בָּא בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהֹוָ֑ה בֵּֽ֜רַכְנוּכֶ֗ם מִבֵּ֥ית יְהֹוָֽה:

[/td]​

So they needed to bless the one who came “in Yahweh’s name” back then, as well as today…..something the natural Jews have refused to do for thousands of years. Stubborn and unmovable as they have always been, counting on their lineage to Abraham as if their disobedience means nothing. (Matt 3:7-10; Matt 21:43)

There is not going to be any last minute miracle as the people of that nation have had as much, if not more notice of God’s intentions….and to identify their Messiah from their own Scripture.
They have unsanctioned blood on their hands. (Isa 1:15)
Their failure will cost them dearly.

The leopard has not changed its spots. Yet anyone from any nation is acceptable to God if they follow the teachings of God’s Son. No nationality is excluded….we are to preach the gospel (good news) to “people of all nations” …”and then the end will come.” (Matt 24:14)

"Jesus himself said to the Jewish leaders….and by extension, those who adhered to their teachings and condoned their conduct….
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until ***you*** say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” (Matt 23:37-39 NASB)

He was quoting Psalm 118: 26 and in the Jewish Tanakh, God’s name, “Yahweh” is there in the text, twice.."

*********************************************

It is obvious that you do not understand any of those passages. And yet you blithely quote them regardless.

It is also obvious that you have never been correctly taught the PROPHETIC meaning of the eminently and critically important Psalm 118 that Jesus intentionally quotes in Matt 23 and Luke 13.

1. Psalm 118:25–26 — The astonishing prophecy of Israel welcoming her King​

Psalm 118:25–26 (KJV)
Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

The Hebrew of verse 25 is particularly important:
אָנָּא יְהוָה הוֹשִׁיעָה נָּא
Anna Adonai, hoshiah na.
The expression hoshiah na means "Save, please!" or "Save now!"
This is the source of our word Hosanna.
It began as an appeal for deliverance and developed into a liturgical acclamation of praise. Jewish tradition preserves it in the Hoshana prayers associated particularly with the Feast of Tabernacles.

Now consider what happens when Jesus enters Jerusalem.
Matthew 21:9 (KJV)

And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

Compare the parallel accounts:

• Matthew 21:1–11
• Mark 11:1–10
• Luke 19:28–40
• John 12:12–16

The people are invoking Psalm 118 while acclaiming Jesus as the promised Davidic King.
John 12:13 is particularly explicit, adding the identification "the King of Israel."
Yet this public welcome must be distinguished from the official acceptance of Jesus by Israel's national leadership. Matthew 21–23 depicts the increasing confrontation between Jesus and those leaders.
This distinction becomes critical to understanding His subsequent quotation of the psalm.

2. Matthew 23:39 — The future acknowledgment of Messiah by national Israel​

Here we arrive at what, from the dispensational premillennial perspective, is arguably the most consequential eschatological use of Psalm 118.
Matthew 23:37–39 (KJV)

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Jesus again cites Psalm 118:26.
But this time the setting is altogether different.
He has pronounced judgment upon Jerusalem's rejection of Him, and He declares that they will not see Him again until they utter the acknowledgment drawn from the psalm.
The parallel statement is found in Luke 13:34–35.

The significance of the word "until"​

In Matthew 23:39 the Greek expression is heōs an (ἕως ἂν), followed by the aorist subjunctive eipēte — "you say."
The construction describes a future point or condition associated with the declared period of not seeing Him.
The sentence itself does not specify the number of years, nor does its grammar alone prove that the nation's acknowledgment causes the Second Coming. Nevertheless, the dispensational interpretation understands the statement as anticipating a genuine future national recognition of Jesus.
The importance of that reading becomes evident when Matthew 23 is compared with other prophetic passages.

Zechariah 12:10
The inhabitants of Jerusalem look upon the One whom they pierced and enter into profound mourning.


Zechariah 13:1
A fountain is opened to the house of David and Jerusalem for sin and uncleanness.


Romans 11:25–27
Israel experiences a partial hardening until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, followed by Paul's declaration that all Israel shall be saved, citing the promised Deliverer.


Zechariah 14:3–9
The LORD intervenes against the nations gathered against Jerusalem and is subsequently acknowledged as King over all the earth.

The prophetic synthesis​

The national regeneration of Israel precedes and is associated with the Second Coming of Messiah. In this framework, Israel's national acknowledgment of Jesus is a prerequisite for His return in the prophetic program.
Psalm 118:26, as cited by Jesus in Matthew 23:39, supplies a crucial part of that argument.
The national response is understood not as a second attempt to offer the kingdom, nor merely as another crowd's enthusiastic welcome, but as the genuine repentance and confession of the surviving nation.

 

[cv5]

I understood you the first time you said it, but it does not work like that.
The Genesis 15:18-21 promise was made to Abraham, not the children of Israel.
God said that Abraham's seed would possess the land of Canaan, and they did.
Done deal.

The everlasting promise of Genesis 17:8 is not just a repeat of what God has already said, because it incorporates far more.
It assumes that Jesus will inherit it and there will be a new heaven and earth, but simply mentions the land of Canaan again.
One of those classic understatements of the Bible, as that land has stopped being the central focus long ago.

Nobody inherits this everlasting promise from Abraham unless they also inherit his faith.
It so happens that Isaac and Jacob did have his faith, but not all of the children of Israel had it.
Abraham is also the father of many nations, not only through Ishmael and the children of Keturah, but spiritually through the gospel of Christ.
These all inherit the new heavens and new earth together with Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
It is the same inheritance.

Well then I see that you carved out the millennial reign of Christ on the EARTH and the repentance of Gomer aka Israel and redemption of Naomi aka Israel.

A convenient and oh so necessary editing job for the amils, but appallingly deceitful. And brutally hard-hearted.
The good news: its going to happen regardless of the many denials and despite the silly efforts of the detractors.....

Women in Scripture who typify the future redeemed Nation of Israel​

Several women provide remarkable prophetic portraits of national Israel's future redemption, restoration to YHVH, and enjoyment of the Abrahamic covenant promises—including the literal inheritance of the Land.

The prophetic framework is established by Jeremiah 31:31–37, Ezekiel 36:24–28, Ezekiel 37:21–28, Hosea 2:14–23, and Isaiah 54:1–10.
Especially decisive is Ezekiel 36:28:

Then shall ye dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Here the New Covenant blessings of regeneration and restoration are explicitly joined to the ancestral Land.

The principal women​

Woman	Principal passages	Proposed prophetic significance	Strength of identification
Gomer	Hosea 1–3	Unfaithful Israel redeemed and restored to YHVH, followed by national restoration under Davidic kingship	Explicit prophetic symbolism
Naomi	Ruth 1–4	Israel returns from exile-like deprivation to her ancestral inheritance through the work of a kinsman-redeemer	Strong typological interpretation
Sarah	Genesis 17–21; Isaiah 51:1–3; 54:1–8	Barren covenant mother becomes fruitful through divine promise; restored Zion rejoices	Strong prophetic analogy
Rachel	Genesis 29–35; Jeremiah 31:15–17	Israel's matriarch mourns her displaced children, who are promised return to their own territory	Explicit prophetic personification
The two sisters, Oholah and Oholibah	Ezekiel 23; 36–37	Northern Israel and Judah, both judged for infidelity, subsequently reunited as one restored nation	Explicit national symbolism, but restoration developed elsewhere
The woman called Zion / Jerusalem	Isaiah 49:14–26; 54; 62:1–5	Forsaken wife becomes reconciled, fruitful, married, and permanently established in her Land	Explicit prophetic personification

The distinctions matter: Gomer, Rachel, and personified Zion have direct prophetic applications to Israel. Naomi and Sarah require typological interpretation. The two sisters are directly identified with Israel and Judah, but Ezekiel 23 itself emphasizes judgment rather than their ultimate redemption.

1. Gomer — Israel, the adulterous wife restored​

Hosea 1:2–11; 2:14–23; 3:1–5
Gomer provides the most unmistakable personal illustration of Israel's spiritual adultery and ultimate reconciliation.

• Gomer's unfaithfulness depicts Israel's covenant infidelity.
• Hosea's continued love and redemption of his wife illustrate YHVH's faithfulness.
• Hosea 2:19–20 anticipates renewed marital fidelity.
• Hosea 3:4–5 foretells Israel's return to YHVH and Davidic kingship in the latter days.

Land connection: Hosea 1:10–11; 2:15, 23; 3:5. Israel's restored covenant relationship is associated with national reunification, renewed possession of the Land, and Davidic rule.
This is explicit prophetic symbolism, not a speculative typology.

2. Naomi — Israel restored to her inheritance through the kinsman-redeemer​

Ruth 1:1–6; 1:19–22; 2:20; 4:3–17
Naomi is especially significant because the narrative brings together return, inheritance, redemption, and restored fullness.
Consider the sequence:

1. Naomi departs from Bethlehem because of famine.
2. She experiences bereavement, dispossession, and bitterness in a foreign land.
3. She returns to Bethlehem after hearing that YHVH has visited His people.
4. Her deceased husband's inheritance becomes the subject of redemption.
5. Boaz acts as the kinsman-redeemer, preserving the family inheritance.
6. Naomi is restored from emptiness to fullness, receiving the child Obed into her care.

Ruth 4:14–15 is particularly striking because Naomi's redemption and restoration culminate in the preservation of the family line.
The prophetic correspondence is substantial:

• Naomi represents Israel in affliction and displacement.
• Her return to Bethlehem anticipates Israel's national return.
• Her connection to Elimelech's land anticipates Israel's recovered inheritance.
• Boaz's redemptive work illustrates the action of a qualified kinsman-redeemer.
• Naomi's restoration anticipates the future restoration of the remnant.

The connection between Naomi's story and Israel's restoration through a redeemer is also developed in modern typological scholarship.
The combination of redemption and ancestral landed inheritance makes Naomi especially relevant.

​

 

[cv5]

3. Sarah — the barren mother of the covenant people​

Genesis 17:15–21; 18:9–14; 21:1–7; Isaiah 51:1–3; 54:1–8
Sarah is intrinsically associated with the Abrahamic promises.
God establishes the promised line through Isaac, Sarah's son, rather than Ishmael.
Isaiah 51:1–3 explicitly summons Israel to remember Abraham and Sarah, then immediately promises comfort and restoration to Zion.
Isaiah 54 subsequently depicts the barren woman becoming fruitful and the forsaken wife reunited with her Husband.
The prophetic correspondence is especially relevant to Israel's restored fruitfulness, covenant security, and the renewal of Zion's devastated places.
Land connection: Genesis 17:7–8 establishes the everlasting territorial promise to Abraham and his descendants through the covenant line, while Isaiah 54:2–3 anticipates expansion and repossession.
Paul's allegory in Galatians 4:21–31 further identifies Sarah with the freedom and inheritance belonging to the children of promise. However, Paul's immediate application is broader than ethnic Israel and cannot by itself establish a specifically future national restoration.

4. Rachel — national Israel mourning her displaced children​

Genesis 35:16–20; Jeremiah 31:15–17
Rachel is particularly important because her prophetic symbolism occurs within the very chapter announcing the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31:15 personifies Rachel as mourning the loss of her children.
But verses 16–17 declare:

Thy children shall come again to their own border.

Here the geographical element is explicit.
The woman representing the mourning mother of Israel is assured that her descendants will return to their national territory.
The sequence continues with Ephraim's repentance in Jeremiah 31:18–20, national restoration in verses 21–28, and the New Covenant in verses 31–34.
Rachel therefore provides a compelling maternal personification of Israel's exile, future return, and national restoration.
She is not herself the wife of YHVH in this figure, but she is unmistakably associated with Israel's national destiny.

5. Oholah and Oholibah — Israel and Judah, the unfaithful sisters​

Ezekiel 23:1–49; 37:15–28
Ezekiel explicitly identifies the women:

• Oholah: Samaria, the Northern Kingdom.
• Oholibah: Jerusalem, the Southern Kingdom.

Their spiritual prostitution represents the covenant infidelity of the divided nation.
Ezekiel 23 does not conclude with their redemption. However, Ezekiel 37:15–28 subsequently announces the reunification of the divided nation into one kingdom, under one Davidic ruler, dwelling in the ancestral Land.
Thus the two women symbolize the historical divisions of the nation that YHVH later promises to restore.
This is a legitimate canonical connection, although the restoration is not presented within the original two-sisters allegory itself.

6. Jerusalem / Zion — the forsaken woman restored as the wife of YHVH​

Ezekiel 16:1–63; Isaiah 49:14–26; 54:1–10; 62:1–12
This is the most direct prophetic representation of the future redeemed nation.
Ezekiel 16 depicts Jerusalem as an abandoned infant whom YHVH raises, marries, and establishes. She subsequently commits grievous covenant infidelity.
Yet Ezekiel 16:60–63 promises that YHVH will remember His covenant, establish an everlasting covenant, and provide atonement.

Isaiah 54:5 identifies Israel's Maker as her Husband.
Isaiah 62:4 then provides an extraordinary connection between renewed marriage and territorial possession:

Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

The prophecy explicitly combines restoration of the woman with restoration of her land.

This is perhaps the most decisive passage for your particular requirement: the nation's restored marital relationship with YHVH and its territorial inheritance are inseparably joined.

Conclusion​

Under strict criteria, I would distinguish three levels of biblical evidence.
Explicit representations of restored national Israel: Gomer, the woman Zion/Jerusalem, and Rachel as the mourning national mother.
Strong typological portraits of restoration and inheritance: Naomi and Sarah.
Explicit representations of Israel's covenant unfaithfulness whose restoration is revealed in subsequent prophecy: Oholah and Oholibah.
The unifying doctrinal statement is found in Jeremiah 32:37–41, where YHVH promises to gather Israel, establish an everlasting covenant with her, and plant her securely in the Land. Read alongside Jeremiah 31:31–37 and Ezekiel 36–37, this makes the future restoration of national Israel much more than an allegory of individual salvation.
The women collectively illustrate aspects of that restoration, but the prophetic covenants establish its certainty.

 

[cv5]

Could God’s word be any clearer? The Kingdom of God was theirs but they rejected their appointed High Priest and had him put to death as an imposter….a blasphemer! Why would God bless a nation who did not ever obey him for longer than five minutes? And who disrespected him and murdered his appointed Savior! Read the whole of Matt ch 23 and see what Jesus said about the leaders of his own people.

There is not going to be any last minute miracle as the people of that nation have had as much, if not more notice of God’s intentions….and to identify their Messiah from their own Scripture.
They have unsanctioned blood on their hands. (Isa 1:15)
Their failure will cost them dearly.

The leopard has not changed its spots. Yet anyone from any nation is acceptable to God if they follow the teachings of God’s Son. No nationality is excluded….we are to preach the gospel (good news) to “people of all nations” …”and then the end will come.” (Matt 24:14)

Whew that is some kind of blistering hateful diatribe against Gomer whom God dearly loves to the depths of His infinite heart.
Do you feel.....threatened or insulted by this wonderful gracious depth of sincere love that God Himself has for Gomer aka Israel?

I am sure Satan is very disturbed by all of this as well, so you are in some very bad company.....

The LORD's extraordinary love for Gomer: His adulterous wife, the Nation Israel​

One of the most moving revelations in the entire Old Testament is YHVH's enduring, tender, compassionate, and covenantally faithful love for His estranged wife, the Nation Israel, notwithstanding her centuries of spiritual adultery, rebellion, and rejection of Him.
The prophetic drama of Hosea and Gomer portrays this relationship. Hosea loves and retrieves his unfaithful wife, illustrating YHVH's determination to redeem and restore Israel.
Importantly, Gomer is the literal wife of Hosea, whereas Israel is the figurative wife of YHVH. The prophets develop this imagery in some of Scripture's most beautiful declarations of divine love.
From a dispensational, premillennial understanding, these promises anticipate Israel's future national repentance, reconciliation, restoration to her covenant relationship, and enjoyment of the promised Land.

I. HOSEA — The love of a faithful husband for his unfaithful wife​

These are the foundational passages.

1. Hosea 2:14–15 — He tenderly woos His estranged wife​

Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth. (KJV)

The Hebrew expression translated "speak comfortably" is dibber ʿal-lēb, literally, "speak to the heart."
The remarkable feature is that God does not merely command Israel to return. He promises to woo her, address her heart, restore her vineyards, and renew the affection associated with her youth.
The Valley of Achor, historically associated with trouble and judgment (Joshua 7), becomes a door of hope.

2. Hosea 2:16–17 — She shall once again call Him her husband​

And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.

Ishi means "my husband." The LORD anticipates a restored relationship in which Israel knows Him truly and abandons the Baals.

3. Hosea 2:18–20 — He pledges Himself to her forever​

I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

The promise is astonishing. After Israel's repeated unfaithfulness, God promises an everlasting union characterized by righteousness, chesed (steadfast covenant love), mercy, and faithfulness.
This is a particularly strong statement of the permanence of Israel's future restoration.

4. Hosea 2:21–23 — His beloved wife is planted permanently in her Land​

God promises to sow Israel unto Himself in the earth, show mercy to the one previously without mercy, and acknowledge the people who had been called Lo-Ammi ("not My people").
This is where marital reconciliation, covenant restoration, and renewed fruitfulness in the Land converge.

5. Hosea 3:1–5 — He loves her even while she remains adulterous​

Hosea 3:1 is perhaps the most extraordinary illustration of this love:

Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel.

God commands Hosea to love her despite her infidelity, illustrating His own love toward Israel.
In verses 2–3 Hosea retrieves her at a cost and calls her to fidelity. Verses 4–5 carry the symbolism forward to Israel's latter-day return to the LORD and David her king.

6. Hosea 6:1–3 — The estranged wife returns to her husband​

Israel is summoned to return to the LORD, who has wounded but will heal and restore.
The chapter portrays repentance and renewed knowledge of God, although verses 4–6 show that the repentance of Hosea's immediate generation was superficial.

7. Hosea 11:1–4 — He remembers when Israel was young​

God recalls loving Israel as a child, teaching Ephraim to walk, taking them into His arms, and drawing them with cords of love.
Although the imagery here changes from husband to father, the tenderness is unmistakable.

8. Hosea 11:8–9 — His heart recoils at the thought of destroying her​

How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel?

This is among the most emotionally powerful passages in Scripture. God declares that His heart is turned within Him and that His compassion is kindled.
Judgment is deserved, yet His compassion is not exhausted.

9. Hosea 11:10–11 — He gathers His children home​

Israel will follow the LORD, who calls them back from distant lands and settles them in their houses.
The imagery is paternal rather than marital, but the same covenant love motivates restoration.

10. Hosea 12:9 — He recalls their original relationship​

The LORD identifies Himself as Israel's God from the land of Egypt and promises a renewed dwelling associated with the appointed feasts.

11. Hosea 13:4–5 — He remembers caring for her in the wilderness​

God recalls knowing and sustaining Israel in the wilderness. The passage emphasizes how deeply Israel's subsequent forgetfulness grieved the One who had cared for her.

12. Hosea 14:1–9 — The magnificent reconciliation​

The closing chapter of Hosea is one of the clearest portrayals of divine forgiveness and restoration.
Especially:

• 14:1–3: Israel is called to repentance and to abandon false sources of salvation.
• 14:4: God promises to heal her backsliding and love her freely.
• 14:5–7: Israel flourishes under His blessing, pictured with dew, lilies, olive trees, vines, and renewed habitation.
• 14:8: Ephraim renounces idols, and the LORD declares Himself the source of her fruitfulness.

The book that begins with an adulterous wife ends with the prospect of a repentant, healed, flourishing people.

​

 

[cv5]

II. JEREMIAH — The husband who remembers His first love​

13. Jeremiah 2:2 — God remembers the love of their youth​

I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown.

Notice how God recalls the earliest days of His relationship with Israel. The memory of their original covenant relationship remains precious to Him.

14. Jeremiah 3:1, 6–12 — He calls His adulterous wife to return​

Jeremiah describes Israel's spiritual adultery and her receiving a bill of divorce (3:8). Nevertheless, in verse 12, God summons faithless Israel to return, proclaiming His mercy and restraint.
This is a crucial parallel to Hosea.

15. Jeremiah 3:14–18 — He still identifies Himself as her husband​

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you.

The LORD then promises restoration, faithful shepherds, the reunification of Judah and Israel, and a return to the land given to their fathers.
The marital relationship is expressly connected with future national restoration.

16. Jeremiah 3:19–22 — He longs for her to call Him Father​

God expresses His desire to establish Israel among the nations and give her the beautiful inheritance. He then calls His faithless children to return and promises to heal their backsliding.

17. Jeremiah 30:18–22 — He restores their homes and covenant relationship​

The LORD promises to restore Jacob's dwellings, rebuild the city, multiply the people, and reestablish their relationship as His own people.

18. Jeremiah 31:2–4 — He loves her with an everlasting love​

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

The next verse identifies the beneficiary as the virgin of Israel, whom God promises to rebuild and adorn with rejoicing.
This is one of the strongest declarations of God's unfailing affection for His covenant people.

19. Jeremiah 31:10–14 — He gathers and comforts His beloved nation​

God promises to gather Israel, guard her as a shepherd guards his flock, ransom Jacob, and fill His people with joy and abundance.

20. Jeremiah 31:18–20 — His very heart yearns for Ephraim​

Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still.

The LORD then describes His inward compassion toward Ephraim and His determination to show mercy.
This is especially important because Ephraim represents the northern kingdom so frequently condemned for spiritual adultery.

21. Jeremiah 31:31–37 — He promises His estranged wife the New Covenant​

Verse 32 explicitly recalls the broken covenant:

...which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD.

But God promises a New Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, forgiveness of sins, and His law written upon their hearts.
He then guarantees Israel's continued existence as a nation before Him.

22. Jeremiah 32:37–41 — He rejoices over doing good to her​

God promises to gather His people, grant them one heart, make an everlasting covenant, and plant them in the land.
Especially significant is verse 41, where He declares that He will rejoice over them in doing them good.

23. Jeremiah 33:6–11, 14–26 — He restores joy, cleansing, and covenant certainty​

The LORD promises forgiveness, healing, restored rejoicing, and the fulfillment of His promises to the houses of Israel and Judah.

III. ISAIAH — The forsaken wife whom YHVH will never cease to love​

24. Isaiah 49:14–16 — He cannot forget her​

Zion complains that the LORD has forsaken her.
God responds by comparing His affection with that of a mother toward her nursing infant. Even if a mother forgets, He declares that He will not forget Zion.
He further describes her as engraved upon His hands, with her walls continually before Him.

25. Isaiah 51:3 — He will comfort Zion​

God promises to comfort Zion's waste places, transforming her wilderness into a place of beauty and gladness.

26. Isaiah 54:1–10 — Her husband calls His rejected wife back​

This is arguably the most important companion passage to Hosea 2–3.
Especially verses 5–8:

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

The LORD recalls His wife of youth, her rejection and grief, but promises to gather her with great mercy and everlasting kindness.
Verse 10 further guarantees that His covenant of peace will not be removed from her.

27. Isaiah 54:11–17 — He tenderly rebuilds the afflicted wife​

The LORD addresses afflicted Zion, promising to rebuild her in beauty, establish her in righteousness, and secure her against her enemies.

28. Isaiah 60:10–22 — The former object of wrath becomes a source of eternal joy​

Especially verse 15: God promises to transform forsaken Zion into an enduring object of beauty and rejoicing.
The passage also anticipates the restoration of her land, walls, population, and prosperity.

29. Isaiah 61:10–11 — The restored nation rejoices in salvation​

The imagery of bridegroom and bride portrays salvation, righteousness, and rejoicing.
This is a bridal illustration of restoration, although the speaker's identity is interpreted differently by commentators.

30. Isaiah 62:1–5 — He delights in His restored wife​

The prophet announces Zion's coming righteousness and vindication.
Verse 4 gives her the name Hephzibah ("My delight is in her") and her land the name Beulah ("married").
Verse 5 compares divine rejoicing over Zion with the rejoicing of a bridegroom over his bride.
Here, God's love, marital imagery, and the restoration of the Land appear together in an exceptionally explicit manner.

31. Isaiah 65:17–25 — Her restored life is filled with blessing​

The passage pictures restored Jerusalem, abundant life, secure habitation, and divine blessing.

32. Isaiah 66:10–13 — He comforts Jerusalem with a mother's tenderness​

God compares the comfort He will provide Jerusalem with the comfort a mother provides her child.

 

[cv5]

IV. EZEKIEL — The wife who betrayed her husband, yet receives everlasting mercy​

33. Ezekiel 16:6–14 — The LORD remembers how He first loved Jerusalem​

Here God portrays Jerusalem as an abandoned infant whom He rescued, nurtured, clothed, adorned, and eventually entered into covenant with.
Verses 8–14 develop the marriage symbolism explicitly.
The subsequent description of Jerusalem's betrayal is intended to make the magnitude of her ingratitude unmistakable.

34. Ezekiel 16:53–55 — He promises to reverse her captivity​

Despite the severe denunciation of Jerusalem's infidelity, the LORD speaks of a restoration involving Jerusalem and her sisters.

35. Ezekiel 16:60–63 — He remembers His marriage covenant despite her adultery​

Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.

This is among the strongest declarations of enduring covenant fidelity in all Scripture.
Israel forgot her husband, but her husband did not forget His covenant.
The chapter concludes with God's provision of atonement and Israel's acknowledgment of her shame.

36. Ezekiel 20:40–44 — He accepts her again​

God promises to gather Israel from the nations, accept her worship, and cause her to remember her former wickedness.
He acts for the sake of His name even after her rebellion.

37. Ezekiel 34:11–16, 23–31 — He personally seeks and cares for her​

The LORD promises to search for His scattered sheep, rescue them, feed them in good pastures, and place His servant David over them as shepherd.
The imagery is pastoral rather than marital but expresses the same tenderness.

38. Ezekiel 36:24–28 — He gives His redeemed nation a new heart​

God promises to regather Israel, cleanse her, give her a new heart, place His Spirit within her, and settle her in the land given to her fathers.
This is a central New Covenant restoration passage.

39. Ezekiel 37:15–28 — His divided wife is reunited and restored​

Judah and Ephraim are reunited into one nation. God promises cleansing, a Davidic ruler, an everlasting covenant of peace, and His permanent dwelling among them.

V. THE MINOR PROPHETS — His enduring affection for Zion and Israel​

40. Micah 4:6–8 — He regathers the afflicted and rejected​

The LORD promises to gather the lame, outcast, and afflicted, restore their kingdom, and reign over them in Zion.

41. Micah 7:18–20 — He delights in mercy​

God promises to pardon iniquity, cast sins into the depths of the sea, and fulfill His sworn mercy to Abraham and Jacob.
This is an exceptionally important connection between divine forgiveness and the Abrahamic Covenant.

42. Zephaniah 3:14–20 — He rejoices over His restored people​

Especially verse 17:

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

The context concerns restored Zion and Jerusalem. The LORD Himself rejoices over His people.

43. Zechariah 1:14–17 — He is passionately jealous for Jerusalem​

God declares His great jealousy for Jerusalem and Zion, promises to return in mercy, and announces Jerusalem's rebuilding.

44. Zechariah 2:8–12 — Zion is precious in His sight​

God describes the people whom the nations have plundered as the apple of His eye. He promises to dwell in Zion's midst and again choose Jerusalem.

45. Zechariah 8:1–8 — He returns to His beloved Zion​

The LORD announces His great jealousy for Zion and promises to dwell in Jerusalem, gather His people, and restore their covenant relationship.

46. Zechariah 10:6–12 — He restores them because He has mercy​

God promises to strengthen Judah, save Joseph, bring His scattered people home, and restore them because of His compassion.

47. Zechariah 12:10–14 — His wife finally recognizes the One she pierced​

God pours out the spirit of grace and supplication upon the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
They look upon the One they pierced and mourn profoundly.
In the futurist interpretation, this constitutes a pivotal moment in Israel's national repentance.

48. Zechariah 13:1–2 — He cleanses His repentant nation​

A fountain is opened for the house of David and Jerusalem for sin and uncleanness.
The purification answers the spiritual infidelity addressed throughout Hosea and the other prophets.

VI. THE TORAH — The covenant love underlying all these promises​

These passages establish the foundation of the relationship.

Passage	Revelation of divine love
Deuteronomy 4:29–31	Even after Israel's scattering and tribulation, God promises mercy and remembrance of His covenant with her fathers.
Deuteronomy 7:6–9	God chose Israel because He loved her and intended to keep His oath to her fathers.
Deuteronomy 10:15	God delighted in the fathers and loved their descendants.
Deuteronomy 30:1–10	He promises Israel's repentance, regathering, circumcision of the heart, and restoration to the Land.
Deuteronomy 32:36, 43	He vindicates His people and shows compassion toward His servants.
Deuteronomy 33:3	Moses declares God's love for His people.
Leviticus 26:40–45	Even during captivity, God promises not to utterly destroy Israel or break His covenant with her.

VII. The most compelling passages, considered together​

These eight passages form a particularly powerful prophetic sequence:
1
Jeremiah 2:2 — YHVH remembers His wife's youthful affection.

2
Ezekiel 16:8–14 — He entered covenant with her, clothed her, and adorned her.

3
Hosea 3:1–5 — Despite her adultery, He still loves her and provides for her redemption.

4
Isaiah 54:5–10 — He declares that He is still her husband and promises everlasting kindness.

5
Hosea 2:14–20 — He woos her, speaks tenderly to her heart, and promises everlasting betrothal.

6
Jeremiah 31:3, 31–37 — His everlasting love culminates in the promised New Covenant with Israel and Judah.

7
Isaiah 62:4–5 — The restored wife becomes Hephzibah and Beulah, and her husband rejoices over her.

8
Zephaniah 3:14–20 — The LORD dwells among His redeemed people and rejoices over them with singing.

Read together, they establish a consistent picture: YHVH has not ceased to love the nation He chose, despite her terrible covenant unfaithfulness. His promised restoration is more than the recovery of territory or political sovereignty. It entails forgiveness, spiritual regeneration, renewed covenant fellowship, and the nation's return to the Land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

And that is precisely why Hosea 2:14–23, Jeremiah 31:3–37, Ezekiel 16:60–63, Isaiah 54:5–10, and Isaiah 62:4–5 deserve particular attention when tracing the destiny of YHVH's formerly adulterous wife.

 

[Beekeeper]

The seed of Ishmael was not called to inherit the land.

According to biblical texts, the covenant promises and the specific inheritance of the Promised Land were established exclusively through Isaac, not Ishmael. God explicitly rejected Abraham’s plea to bless Ishmael with the covenant, stating, "But my covenant will I establish with Isaac" (Genesis 17:21). While Ishmael was blessed with fruitfulness and became a great nation, he was bypassed as the heir of the Abrahamic covenant, which designates the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession for the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Biblical Narrative: Ishmael received other blessings and lands outside the specific covenant of Canaan, such as the wilderness of Paran, and was circumcised but excluded from the primary covenant line.

--

Of course that is what happened in the time of Isaac and Ishmael.
Now in the time of Jesus the land of Canaan ought not to be the central focus, because nobody has any Biblical claim on it more than anyone else.
The land promise to Abraham concerning the children of Jacob (Genesis 15:18-21) has already been granted long ago, and the conditional promise through which the children of Jacob claimed Canaan has been broken so many times that it is made void.

Through Jesus the eternal promise to Abraham is inherited by faith, whether you are related to Ishmael or not.
This eternal promise includes the one in Genesis 17:8, as it includes the new heaven and new earth.
It has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with faith.
If you do not agree with me, I ask you how you determine which eternal promises are inherited through Jesus and which are not.

The assumption that Israelis are the Israelites who exclusively inherit Genesis 17:8 leads to the assumption that all the other old tribes still exist in the region and must be categorized as Canaanites, Hittites, Amalekites etc.
This also leads to the bloody messed up assumption that the OT must be relived in our time, which clashes so much with NT teaching that the assumption of a millennial earthly kingdom must be constructed to accommodate it all.

All these assumptions put together lead to the deconstruction of Christian faith, because while many wish to honor God by attending the churches that teach them, they feel the internal conflict that false doctrine produces in souls.
For this reason few feel confident enough in their faith to become effective evangelists, and many stop attending churches altogether.
It also corrupts the testimony of the church by making it support the worst criminals of the world.

 

[cv5]

Of course that is what happened in the time of Isaac and Ishmael.
Now in the time of Jesus the land of Canaan ought not to be the central focus, because nobody has any Biblical claim on it more than anyone else.
The land promise to Abraham concerning the children of Jacob (Genesis 15:18-21) has already been granted long ago, and the conditional promise through which the children of Jacob claimed Canaan has been broken so many times that it is made void.

Through Jesus the eternal promise to Abraham is inherited by faith, whether you are related to Ishmael or not.
This eternal promise includes the one in Genesis 17:8, as it includes the new heaven and new earth.
It has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with faith.
If you do not agree with me, I ask you how you determine which eternal promises are inherited through Jesus and which are not.

The assumption that Israelis are the Israelites who exclusively inherit Genesis 17:8 leads to the assumption that all the other old tribes still exist in the region and must be categorized as Canaanites, Hittites, Amalekites etc.
This also leads to the bloody messed up assumption that the OT must be relived in our time, which clashes so much with NT teaching that the assumption of a millennial earthly kingdom must be constructed to accommodate it all.

All these assumptions put together lead to the deconstruction of Christian faith, because while many wish to honor God by attending the churches that teach them, they feel the internal conflict that false doctrine produces in souls.
For this reason few feel confident enough in their faith to become effective evangelists, and many stop attending churches altogether.
It also corrupts the testimony of the church by making it support the worst criminals of the world.

On what conceivable grounds should we subordinate the conclusive biblical evidence concerning the prophetic typology of Gomer—already thoroughly demonstrated on this very page—to your prejudices, whims, and subjective opinions?

Does your presumed sense of entitlement somehow confer upon you the authority to overrule the testimony of Scripture?

 

[JemimaJade]

Seriously? What part did you miss throughout this entire conversation that God/Jesus passed down that promise also through the seed of Isaac and Jacob/Israel? It's the remnant of Jacob/Israel that the promises are kept for, which is why Revelation 7 shows you that people representing 12,000 each from the 12 tribes of Israel are sealed and saved.

Seriously?…..Perhaps you missed all the references to a new “Israel”….”a people for his name”, taken from both Jewish and gentile nationalities…..”the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) is no longer national Israel……lineage to Abraham was no longer a requirement, because Jesus had fulfilled the promise made to Abraham, that ‘by means of his seed “all nations” would be blessed’. (Gen 22:17-18 Matt 3:7-10) Lineage was not the primary requirement….faith and obedience like that of Abraham, was.

Israel had fulfilled their role in producing the Messiah, and now it was time for fleshly Israel to go on their merry way and to continue to reject their Messiah….one that they are still expecting, and their children are taught to ask Adonai to please hurry up….still in denial after how many centuries?

Rev 7 is not about natural “Israel”, whom Jesus cast off as “abandoned” UNTIL they acknowledged the one who came in the name of their God…..”Yahweh”! (“Jehovah” in English. Psalm 83:18)
A name that to this day, Jews refuse to utter.
They have no biblical command concerning God’s illustrious name, except what God himself instructed Moses at the burning bush….

Exodus3:13-15 from the Jewish Tanakh…this is their own Scripture.
13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”

What do you notice there as to God’s instruction to his people through his mediator, Moses?….note the meaning of God’s name as they were taught it.

The meaning of his name “ יְהֹוָ֞ה ” (which is clearly in the Hebrew text”,) is…..
“I Will Be What I Will Be”….NOT….“I Am”.
His name was more than an acknowledgment of his existence…as descendants of Jacob, they knew who their God was, as they were a separated nation in the land of Egypt. They would now experience the power of their God in ways they could never have imagined.
He would “be” or “become” whatever he needed to be in order to bring about their deliverance.

Secondly, in verse 15 Israel were told…”This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”
Two words to emphasize here….”forever” and “mentioned”….God’s name was not to be lost in some misplaced Jewish tradition, but was to be “mentioned in every generation”….”forever”.

Another deliberate act of disobedience on their part…..a nation whose track record was appalling!
We learned more about God through their disobedience than we ever learned in the scattered times when they did as they were told. (Usually after a period of punishment) Time seemed to be their greatest enemy….any strides forward were taken backwards by their rebellious attitude….”A stiff necked people” that God wanted to “annihilate” at times. (Exodus 32:7-10) They could never stick to their commitments.

What use does God have for disobedient ones? Isn’t disobedience what got us into this mess in the first place….? Obedient individuals have always served God well….disobedient nations never have.

Let that sink in….

 

[JemimaJade]

All that we really need from you is to fully explain what is being RESTORED here.

If you know what we lost in Eden…you know what is to be restored….God’s first purpose for mankind.
What was his instructions to them? But what happened to prevent that from happening?
In order to see what is restored at the end…you have to go back to the beginning…..that is the big picture.
The Bible explains how he does it. Do you need a road map? It’s about the destination and always has been.

You might as well exegete the UNTIL statements as well. If you can.....

The word itself needs no explanation if you know what the Bible tells us about the big picture….
Nothing will be right on this earth as long as the devil is ruling the world. (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-7)
God handed the rulership of the world over to the one who ‘wanted to be like God’…and who suggested to the woman in Eden that they could disobey God and not “surely die”.

We were subjected to an object lesson of mammoth proportions, which would allow humanity to see first hand, where that one would take us as their god of choice. ‘Reaping what we have sown’, because God tried to tell us that obedience was beneficial, and that a knowledge of evil would never be useful….we have now had thousands of years under the devil’s mismanagement of earth’s affairs to prove to ourselves that we cannot live in disobedience to our Creator and get away with it…..has the world ever been under greater threat from human rulership than is is right now? (Rev 11:18) Those ‘ruining the earth’ are about to be held to account….and humans did not have the capability to do that when the Revelation was written…they do now.

So UNTIL Jesus return as judge, to set things straight, and to “separate the sheep from the goats”….nothing will be right with the world…at war with itself and humanity since time immemorial. We are lousy at governing ourselves…God knew that all along….so the “government” which was to be “on the shoulders of the Prince of Peace”, (Isa 9:6-7) is soon going to take over the reigns of world rulership, but not until all of humanity have made their choices about who God is….what role his Messiah played, and where it was going to take us back to…..

UNTIL…is almost upon us….ready or not.

 

[cv5]

Seriously?…..Perhaps you missed all the references to a new “Israel”….”a people for his name”, taken from both Jewish and gentile nationalities…..”the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) is no longer national Israel……lineage to Abraham was no longer a requirement, because Jesus had fulfilled the promise made to Abraham, that ‘by means of his seed “all nations” would be blessed’. (Gen 22:17-18 Matt 3:7-10) Lineage was not the primary requirement….faith and obedience like that of Abraham, was.

Israel had fulfilled their role in producing the Messiah, and now it was time for fleshly Israel to go on their merry way and to continue to reject their Messiah….one that they are still expecting, and their children are taught to ask Adonai to please hurry up….still in denial after how many centuries?

Rev 7 is not about natural “Israel”, whom Jesus cast off as “abandoned” UNTIL they acknowledged the one who came in the name of their God…..”Yahweh”! (“Jehovah” in English. Psalm 83:18)
A name that to this day, Jews refuse to utter.
They have no biblical command concerning God’s illustrious name, except what God himself instructed Moses at the burning bush….

Exodus3:13-15 from the Jewish Tanakh…this is their own Scripture.
13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”

What do you notice there as to God’s instruction to his people through his mediator, Moses?….note the meaning of God’s name as they were taught it.

The meaning of his name “ יְהֹוָ֞ה ” (which is clearly in the Hebrew text”,) is…..
“I Will Be What I Will Be”….NOT….“I Am”.
His name was more than an acknowledgment of his existence…as descendants of Jacob, they knew who their God was, as they were a separated nation in the land of Egypt. They would now experience the power of their God in ways they could never have imagined.
He would “be” or “become” whatever he needed to be in order to bring about their deliverance.

Secondly, in verse 15 Israel were told…”This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”
Two words to emphasize here….”forever” and “mentioned”….God’s name was not to be lost in some misplaced Jewish tradition, but was to be “mentioned in every generation”….”forever”.

Another deliberate act of disobedience on their part…..a nation whose track record was appalling!
We learned more about God through their disobedience than we ever learned in the scattered times when they did as they were told. (Usually after a period of punishment) Time seemed to be their greatest enemy….any strides forward were taken backwards by their rebellious attitude….”A stiff necked people” that God wanted to “annihilate” at times. (Exodus 32:7-10) They could never stick to their commitments.

What use does God have for disobedient ones? Isn’t disobedience what got us into this mess in the first place….? Obedient individuals have always served God well….disobedient nations never have.

Let that sink in….

"a new “Israel”….”a people for his name”, taken from both Jewish and gentile nationalities…..”the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16)"

Nope. That is a worn-out RT hoax, effortlessly debunked.

Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision (ISRAELITES) availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision (GENTILES), but a new creature.

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them (THE GENTILES), and mercy, and upon the Israel of God (ISRAELITES).

Count: 17 occurrences of “Israel” in Paul's epistles; zero unambiguous instances in which Paul identifies Gentiles as Israel. Throughout Romans 9–11, Paul consistently employs Israel in reference to ethnic Israel, distinguishing the nation from the Gentiles (Romans 9:3–6; 11:1–2, 7, 11–13, 25–28). Indeed, Romans 11:5 explicitly identifies the believing Jewish remnant. Galatians 6:16 does not overturn this established usage: the repeated Greek conjunction καί (and) permits a distinction between all believers who walk according to the rule of the new creation and “the Israel of God,” understood as believing Israelites. Significantly, Paul calls Gentile believers Abraham's seed and heirs according to promise (Galatians 3:28–29), but never explicitly calls them Israel. Thus, the replacement-theology interpretation of Galatians 6:16 is not an established grammatical fact but a failed theological interpretation; it cannot prove that the Church has replaced national Israel.

 

[JemimaJade]

"a new “Israel”….”a people for his name”, taken from both Jewish and gentile nationalities…..”the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16)"

Nope. That is a worn-out RT hoax, effortlessly debunked.

By whom…? And “effortlessly” is hardly a description I would use when studying all of Scripture instead of the theologically convenient ones.
Let’s see….as it has already been discussed and ignored several times….
Matt 21:33-41 is the parable of the vineyard….what follows that parable is important as it shows what will happen to those who killed the son in that illustration….

“They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”
Who were those “wretches”?……and what “miserable death” were they to experience?
Who were the new tenants? What were their “fruits”?

The explanation goes on….as it falls on the ears of the specific ones whom Jesus was addressing…

“Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.” When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.” (Matt 21: 41-44 ESV)

Could Jesus have been more precise?
What did Paul write that was in opposition to what Jesus taught….?

the replacement-theology interpretation of Galatians 6:16 is not an established grammatical fact but a failed theological interpretation; it cannot prove that the Church has replaced national Israel.

So many other Scriptures reinforce the fact that a disobedient “Israel”, with an appalling track record as a nation, would not be saved…..but individuals from “all nations” will come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom which Jesus taught us to pray for….that is when God’s will is “done on earth as it is in heaven”….the time of “the restoration of all things”.

Abraham’s descendants would produce the Messiah….after which they committed the unforgivable sin….of putting their own Messiah to death as an innocent man, convicted in an illegal trail with false witnesses.
All who deny that fact to this day, stand condemned with the original perpetrators.

Unless they repent, which they have never done, and are still in denial, they will not ‘see Jesus again’ except as their judge and executioner.

The ones on the road to life are “few”…but the ones on the road to destruction are “many” (Matt 7:13-14) …..when we choose the path, we choose the destination.

People of “all nations” now have the opportunity to come to Christ as their Savior and the Jews are no exception. Individuals come to Christ, not nations. There is no such thing as a Christian nation with blood on their hands. When Israel shed blood without God’s sanction, he abandoned them to their enemies. (Isa 1:15)

 

[cv5]

By whom…? And “effortlessly” is hardly a description I would use when studying all of Scripture instead of the theologically convenient ones.
Let’s see….as it has already been discussed and ignored several times….
Matt 21:33-41 is the parable of the vineyard….what follows that parable is important as it shows what will happen to those who killed the son in that illustration….

“They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”
Who were those “wretches”?……and what “miserable death” were they to experience?
Who were the new tenants? What were their “fruits”?

The explanation goes on….as it falls on the ears of the specific ones whom Jesus was addressing…

“Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.” When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.” (Matt 21: 41-44 ESV)

Could Jesus have been more precise?
What did Paul write that was in opposition to what Jesus taught….?


So many other Scriptures reinforce the fact that a disobedient “Israel”, with an appalling track record as a nation, would not be saved…..but individuals from “all nations” will come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom which Jesus taught us to pray for….that is when God’s will is “done on earth as it is in heaven”….the time of “the restoration of all things”.

Abraham’s descendants would produce the Messiah….after which they committed the unforgivable sin….of putting their own Messiah to death as an innocent man, convicted in an illegal trail with false witnesses.
All who deny that fact to this day, stand condemned with the original perpetrators.

Unless they repent, which they have never done, and are still in denial, they will not ‘see Jesus again’ except as their judge and executioner.

The ones on the road to life are “few”…but the ones on the road to destruction are “many” (Matt 7:13-14) …..when we choose the path, we choose the destination.

People of “all nations” now have the opportunity to come to Christ as their Savior and the Jews are no exception. Individuals come to Christ, not nations. There is no such thing as a Christian nation with blood on their hands. When Israel shed blood without God’s sanction, he abandoned them to their enemies. (Isa 1:15)

The RT hoax has been so thoroughly and utterly debunked and defanged on this thread that only the most intellectual, spiritual, and moral bankrupts—devoid of both critical discernment and elementary integrity—could possibly cling to its moldering corpse.

BTW, can you think of any notable character that likewise insists that Israel is irredeemable due to past sins?

do DO do do do DO dooooo Jeopardy music.....

Oh yea I know: Satan.

 

[JemimaJade]

The RT hoax has been so thoroughly and utterly debunked and defanged on this thread that only the most intellectual, spiritual, and moral bankrupts—devoid of both critical discernment and elementary integrity—could possibly cling to its moldering corpse.

BTW, can you think of any notable character that likewise insists that Israel is irredeemable due to past sins?

do DO do do do DO dooooo Jeopardy music.....

Oh yea I know: Satan.

I don’t even know what an RT hoax is…all I know is what the Bible teaches….do you?
Do you believe the Bible or theology? I know which one I prefer….the one that doesn’t contradict what is already written.
I learned very early in my life that all who claim to be Christian…aren’t. (Matt 7:21-23)
“Wheat and weeds” were to grow in the same “field”….and Jesus will be the judge of which is which….individually. (Matt 24:37-42)

The parable brought to your attention is again ignored….but why? (Matt 12:10-15)

What about this one…?

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matt 13:47-50 ESV)

What is this separation? It is “the evil from the unrighteous”, nothing to do with nationality. These fish were separated individually…all in the same net.

You see…you miss the point entirely….no one is accepted or rejected according to nationality….it is an individual choice to accept Jesus as our Savior….but you do so on his terms, which means you don’t get to flog the words of one Scripture when your interpretation flies in the face of many other verses.

Satan is “the father of the lie” and Jesus told the Jewish leadership that satan was their father…..they were liars and hypocrites. (Matt ch 23) What does “Gehenna” mean to you in his sentencing of them? (Matt 23:33)

Do you understand that the whole Jewish nation either prospered or was punished collectively, due to good or bad leadership. All either prospered or suffered, giving the nation a clear picture of when God was with them in their efforts…or against them with their (at times) severe punishments.

With Jesus as leader…incorruptible and immortal, we have a leader that will never wander off into disobedience and lead us astray. When we choose to follow the lead of our appointed King, the future is guaranteed….but it s a choice, not a label we wear, or a nationality into which we were born.

When their Temple was destroyed in 70CE, why was it never rebuilt? Since they rejected God’s means of forgiveness and there was no longer a Temple at which to offer their sacrifices, how are they, these 2000 years hence, forgiven of their sins? The savior God sent them was rejected and murdered….how is that forgivable?

“The Israel of God” is not fleshly Israel…it is a new nation of God’s making….one producing the fruits.
That new nation was founded on the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ….who withdrew from Judaism when it was obvious that their rejection of Jesus was complete.

Interesting too was the command Jesus gave to his disciples…in Matt 10: 11-14…..

“And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.” (ESV)

Jesus’ disciples were commanded to offer the gospel to their Jewish neighbors, but if they were not received hospitably as was the Jewish custom, they were to “shake the dust from their feet” as an act of condemnation for their lack of hospitality…the first of which was to wash the feet of a guest in your home.

For those who rejected the Christian message, it was going to be “more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town”….

There was the warning….can you make it say something else?

 

[JemimaJade]

So the prayers and pleas of Jesus to forgive and the repeated statements of no man takes my life I lay it down for I have that power and also the power to pick it up again is null and void?
Isaiah 53 8 says it pleased the lord to bruise him. Also it was told before hand that Jesus would be rejected.
Pslams 22 is a clear picture of that rejection.
Jesus rebukes Peter aka Satan when Peter protest against Jesus's fate.
The duel ministry that Christ had and has as Jewish messiah and savior of the Gentiles will come to pass. Fulfilling all that was promised.
God siad he will do it for his name sake, are you saying his name remains marred forever?
Jesus is the high priest according to Melchizedek which is mercy triumph over judgment.
God himself shall come to tabernacle with his people in the end. All of the old shall pass away.

I had to read this through several times as I really don’t understand the application given them in this context…
I can only try to explain each one as I understand it…

You said…
“So the prayers and pleas of Jesus to forgive and the repeated statements of no man takes my life I lay it down for I have that power and also the power to pick it up again is null and void?”

Jesus taught us that forgiveness can only be granted on the basis of repentance….so not repentance means no forgiveness…have the Jews repented?
Not sure what Jesus words as “repeated statements” mean in context here….what was your point?
What was “null and void”?
The Scripture you referred to I believe, is John 10:17-18…

“For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” (ESV)

From whom does Jesus receive his authority? (Matt 28:18) Who resurrected Jesus…? (Acts 2:31-32)

You said…
“Isaiah 53 8 says it pleased the lord to bruise him. Also it was told before hand that Jesus would be rejected.
Pslams 22 is a clear picture of that rejection.”

Again I have no objection to any of that….so what is your point?

You said…
“Jesus rebukes Peter aka Satan when Peter protest against Jesus's fate.”

Actually Jesus rebuked Peter as he was doing to Jesus what Satan did to the woman in Eden. Trying to plant seeds of doubt about the mission he was about to undertake, knowing in advance that he would have to surrender his life…Peter was thinking like a human and not like God. (Matt 16:22-23)

You said…
“The duel ministry that Christ had and has as Jewish messiah and savior of the Gentiles will come to pass. Fulfilling all that was promised.
God siad he will do it for his name sake, are you saying his name remains marred forever?”

Again, not sure what you are implying by this?

Jesus knew what his mission was for….he was originally sent to “none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel”…he was not sent to the Jewish leaders whom he condemned to “Gehenna” as they were “from their father the devil”….Jesus knew very well, by the illustrations he gave, exactly who were going to be saved and who were not.

God allowed the Jews not only to bring dishonor his name, but to lose it altogether in their speech. To this day they will not utter it….yet there was no command of God to cease pronouncing it with appropriate reverence. (Exodus 3:15)
But if you remember, the opening words of the Lord’s Prayer…..addressing “Our Father” Jesus said “hallowed by thy name” as a first priority…so no…..the coming of the Kingdom would remove any reproach brought on Yahweh’s name….for all time to come.

You said…
“Jesus is the high priest according to Melchizedek which is mercy triumph over judgment.”

Jesus’ connection to Melchizedek was the fact that he occupied the office of both King and Priest, which is something a Jew could never do, as they were to come from different tribes….this required soecial appointment by God.
Mercy will not yield to judgment, nor will judgment yield to mercy unless there are legitimate grounds to do so. Mercy is at God’s discretion….an unrepentant wrongdoer will have no such mercy.

You said…
“God himself shall come to tabernacle with his people in the end. All of the old shall pass away.”

Yes, so who are “God’s people”?
In Revelation 18:4-5 God’s “people” are told to “get out” of “Babylon the Great”….written at the end of the first century, about the future…..who are God’s people in this era and what is Babylon the great? There is urgency to this command….how do we obey it?

Those who accept Jesus as their Savior, do so on an individual basis, and it is their choice.
Those of the fleshly nation of Israel had to obey the law without choice. It was imposed on them by birth.
It was not something they chose to do, but what they were obligated to do, under penalty.
This created a legalistic bent to everything….nit picking ridiculous things…

As Jesus said…
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!” (Matt 23:23-4 ESV)
Both creatures were unclean to Jews, but the illustration is clear…..they would strain out the gnat but gulp down a camel….what does that tell you about them…..? Have they changed?

Orthodox Jews still won’t press the button in an elevator as this is considered “work” on the Sabbath. To cater to this extreme, some elevators are programmed to stop at every floor, so that Jews don’t have to press a button and violate the Sabbath…

Does that sound reasonable to you? Does God actually require these sorts of things? Seriously?