WHAT ABOUT THE THEIF ON THE CROSS??

[cronjecj]

John 6:47 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 3:18 (KJV)
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

i tell you the truth that water baptism will not get you saved unless you believe first and because you believe you get baptized with water (outward show of an inward change)

Whoever believes the word of God with deep root in their heart has received the Comforter (Holy Spirit) from the Father without water baptism. This is Spirit baptism for whoever believes unto the only begotten Son of God.

 

[cronjecj]

The dying thief was saved the moment he believed whether baptized with water or not.

 

[AnandaHya]

Not water baptism but the true baptism:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Water baptism was merely a shadow/type of the actual baptism which is of the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you but the OP claims there are only two passages in the Bible where people are ever baptized with the Holy Spirit (only the 12 apostles and some Gentiles to show that God chose them special) and all others is "water baptism" or baptism in the name of Jesus, not by the Holy Spirit. He does not refer to any other type of baptism as "Holy Spirit baptism" if there is not the accompanying miracles, etc.

He still hasn't answered how people get the Holy Spirit if they are not baptized with it.....

Feedme3 how do people get the Holy Spirit if they aren't baptized with it?

I think you mentioned obeying God's commandments and three different types of works but I'm not sure how that ties into receiving the Holy Spirit because no matter what kind of work you do the Holy Spirit does not move by will of man but of God, so how do you receive the Holy Spirit if you are not baptized in it?

I don't believe that water baptism is needed for salvation because of these verses:

Romans 10:8-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation occurs when both the heart believes fully in Jesus as Savior and the mouth confess that He is both Lord and Savior and has been risen from the dead. This is done by hearing the gospel but one can not hear unless God first opens the ears and replaces the heart of stone with a heart of flesh that is able to be fertile soil for the Seed through His grace and mercy when we were enemies and sinners. Until God first sets a hedge that keeps the Enemy from stealing the seed, removes the stony rocks and strongholds that war against knowledge of Him and get rid of the tares and cares of this world so that the eye and the mind and the heart seeks one thing: the Kingdom of God only then does one truly read or hear the Words of God and grow a saving faith that allows the mouth to confess in Spirit and in Truth that Jesus Christ is Lord and was nailed on the cross for remission of YOUR sins and has risen from the dead. The confession and the faith are both works of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

It is faith alone that saves, which is a gift through the grace of God, not by any works of men, not even water baptism.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

 

[cronjecj]

It is faith alone that saves, which is a gift through the grace of God, not by any works of men, not even water baptism.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

..............Feedme3?

 

[feedm3]

I have only commented to what you said that pertains to this post. The things concerning holy spirit baptism I will Copy and paste them into a response in the other post concerning those issues.

I don't believe that water baptism is needed for salvation because of these verses:

Romans 10:8-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

YOU NEED TO ASK SOME VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS CONCERNING THESES PASSAGES
-WHO WAS IT SAID TO, CHRISTIANS OR NON-CHRISTIANS? – IT WAS SAID TO CHRISTIANS

They were already members of the body – “the church at Rome”
Were these Christians already baptized? – Yes – Rom 6:3 “for as many of us as have been baptized…”

So Paul is telling Christians that have already been baptized that they must confess Christ.
Why? Because look at the context of the chapter, he is contrasting Christ with the Jews under the law – they cold not be saved in that condition.
The Romans were told to stay in Christ, to confess Him and they well be (remain) saved.

If not then are you saying the Roman church was not saved at this point?
Can we apply these passages to a non-Christian in explaining how he must be saved?
So because Paul told already baptized Christians they must confess unto salvation this means we do not have to be baptized? Please answer.

This reasoning is foolish, you mean to tell me you recognize by these passages we MUST confess Christ in order to be saved, but you don’t use the same reasoning for simple clear passages like this:


Here is examples of what Non-Christians did to become Chrisitans.
Th Jews: Acts 2:37-38 – “Repent and be baptized” -This was commanded to those who were not yet Christians.
Saul: Acts 22:16 – “arise and be BAPTIZED and wash away thy sins” again spoken to a NON –CHRISTIAN
The Samaritans: Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
The Eunuch: Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Lydia: Act 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us
The Philipian Jailor: Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
The list goes on, but you get the point by now.
So the question is, which passages should we use to show how a Non- Christian is to become a Christian?
Romans 10 – a statement made to already baptized Christians?
Or these above that show how non-Christians became such – I think it is clear.
God has made baptism no incredibly easy to do, and to understand it is essential we will have no excuse on the day of judgment. “well my pastor says” is not going to cut it, read the Bible and stop listening to man.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Just a few passages in which you arguing with what God has said so CLEARLY.

And there are questions you have not answered on my other post concerning the Holy Spirit baptism.
Any questions you have concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit I would appreciate if you would bring them up in that post, so it will not become confusion in this one.
BTW there are questions you have not answered in that other post.

 

[ib4gzus]

The thief was saved without the aid of baptism

Baptism is one of the first works of a new
believer

We dont get Baptised in order to be saved
WE GET BAPTISED BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED.

We are saved by faith
plus nothing .

 

[feedm3]

The dying thief was saved the moment he believed whether baptized with water or not.

You bugged me until we went into this subject on my other post then ran off when you were faced with questions concerning the statements you made.

So really you want to be heard, but not asked anything?

Answer these please from the other post:

Christ washes away our sins when we believe in the first place. It's not a command.

So this was not a command? - Acts 22:16
Saul already believed when Christ appeared to him on the road to Damascus.
That is why before Ananias even showed up Saul was praying.

• Are you saying he was saved before Ananias came, so was he saved while still in sins?
• or did Ananias just not understand when ones sins are washed away?

Water baptism or Spirit Baptism?

Water - The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not for us today.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
Which baptism is still here today the baptism of the H.S. or the name of Jesus Christ.

Not mine, the word of God.

No still yours, not one passage in your post.

[QUOTEHere's a tip: If you write lengthy people won't read it[/quote]
No you mean you wont read it, i have wrote lengthy and people have read.

 

[cronjecj]

The thief was saved without the aid of baptism

Baptism is one of the first works of a new
believer

We dont get Baptised in order to be saved
WE GET BAPTISED BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED.

We are saved by faith
plus nothing .

 

[feedm3]

The thief was saved without the aid of baptism

Baptism is one of the first works of a new
believer

We dont get Baptised in order to be saved
WE GET BAPTISED BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED.

We are saved by faith
plus nothing .

So we are saved by faith alone - funny the only time i find the phrase "faith alone" in the Bible it is here:
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[AnandaHya]

so you won't accuse me of not reading all of it, I'll comment ....

I have only commented to what you said that pertains to this post. The things concerning holy spirit baptism I will Copy and paste them into a response in the other post concerning those issues.




Romans 10:8-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

YOU NEED TO ASK SOME VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS CONCERNING THESES PASSAGES
-WHO WAS IT SAID TO, CHRISTIANS OR NON-CHRISTIANS? – IT WAS SAID TO CHRISTIANS
yes it is said to people who have been baptized by water and shows that until that moment when the SPIRIT allows them to confess Jesus as Lord not only with their mouths but with their hearts they are not truly saved. no matter how many times they get dunked under water. this speaks of how the HOLY SPIRIT moves people to salvation by FAITH and giving them new hearts and a New Spirit that allows this to occur. this is what I believe the Bible refers to the baptism of the Holy Spirit but at the very least it is the circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit by faith through grace.


They were already members of the body – “the church at Rome”
Were these Christians already baptized? – Yes – Rom 6:3 “for as many of us as have been baptized…”

So Paul is telling Christians that have already been baptized that they must confess Christ.
Why? Because look at the context of the chapter, he is contrasting Christ with the Jews under the law – they cold not be saved in that condition.
The Romans were told to stay in Christ, to confess Him and they well be (remain) saved.

If not then are you saying the Roman church was not saved at this point? nope not until they believed with their hearts and confessed with their mouths that Jesus is Lord, died on the cross for remission of their sins and rose from the dead they were not saved. they just heard the gospel, were given the Seed but what kind of soil it fell upon is not shown until the Seed bears fruit and they have a saving Faith.


Can we apply these passages to a non-Christian in explaining how he must be saved? Yes


So because Paul told already baptized Christians they must confess unto salvation this means we do not have to be baptized? Please answer. as someone already stated we are baptized because we are saved not in order to be saved. the only thing that can save is not baptism but faith in Jesus.






This reasoning is foolish, you mean to tell me you recognize by these passages we MUST confess Christ in order to be saved, but you don’t use the same reasoning for simple clear passages like this:


Here is examples of what Non-Christians did to become Chrisitans.
Th Jews: Acts 2:37-38 – “Repent and be baptized” -This was commanded to those who were not yet Christians.
Saul: Acts 22:16 – “arise and be BAPTIZED and wash away thy sins” again spoken to a NON –CHRISTIAN
The Samaritans: Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
The Eunuch: Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Lydia: Act 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us
The Philipian Jailor: Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
The list goes on, but you get the point by now.
So the question is, which passages should we use to show how a Non- Christian is to become a Christian?
Romans 10 – a statement made to already baptized Christians?
Or these above that show how non-Christians became such – I think it is clear.
God has made baptism no incredibly easy to do, and to understand it is essential we will have no excuse on the day of judgment. “well my pastor says” is not going to cut it, read the Bible and stop listening to man.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Just a few passages in which you arguing with what God has said so CLEARLY.

And there are questions you have not answered on my other post concerning the Holy Spirit baptism.
Any questions you have concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit I would appreciate if you would bring them up in that post, so it will not become confusion in this one.
BTW there are questions you have not answered in that other post.

didn't see your other questions. i'll look at it in a minute. have to give a girl her apple juice....

So you believe to be saved is not just repent and believe in Jesus and be baptized by His Holy Spirit then continue to live a life guided by that Holy Spirit

but

repent and find someone to dunk you in water in the name of Jesus and obey all the commandments of God you label as works of obedience versus works of the law or meriteous works as found in the Bible and in that way have the Spirit in your life through His Word?

sorry I must be misreading something...

 

[cronjecj]

You bugged me until we went into this subject on my other post then ran off when you were faced with questions concerning the statements you made.

So really you want to be heard, but not asked anything?

Answer these please from the other post:

So this was not a command? - Acts 22:16
Saul already believed when Christ appeared to him on the road to Damascus.
That is why before Ananias even showed up Saul was praying.

• Are you saying he was saved before Ananias came, so was he saved while still in sins?
• or did Ananias just not understand when ones sins are washed away?

Water - The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not for us today.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
Which baptism is still here today the baptism of the H.S. or the name of Jesus Christ.

im sorry that you feel bugged by truth.

i didn't just got bored of you trying so hard to explain water baptism.

Acts 22:16 is a sign of turning away from your old paths. (Ananias speaking to Paul)

Paul believed before he was baptized with water.

Saul persecuted them that followed Christ it was only when he was on his way to damascus he had a vision that blinded him, thereafter he believed..

1) Jesus ascension (Acts 1)
2) Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas (Acts 1)
3) The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost (Acts 2)
4) Peter speaks ot converts / Disciples have fellowship (Acts 2)
5) Peter heals a beggar / speaks to the crowd (Acts 3)
6) Peter/John brought to the Sanhedrin (Acts 4)
7) The Apostles perform miracles and are persecuted (Acts 5)
8) Disciples increase in number; Stephen sticks up to Sanhredin and gets stoned (Acts 7/8)
9) Paul gets a vision from God, and eventually some visits from the Apostles

That is a lie.

That one baptism is the HS baptism so by the way.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit from Christ and the Father - one baptism.

 

[feedm3]

im sorry that you feel bugged by truth.

Not bugged with the truth, your words are false, but by the same old boring arguments that have already been shut down.

i didn't just got bored of you trying so hard to explain water baptism.

So your bored with truth 0k.

Acts 22:16 is a sign of turning away from your old paths. (Ananias speaking to Paul)

Really "wash away your sins" implies you still have them, dont try to twist such a simple statement.

Paul believed before he was baptized with water.

my point exactly and yet his sins remained until he was baptized.

Saul persecuted them that followed Christ it was only when he was on his way to damascus he had a vision that blinded him, thereafter he believed..

1) Jesus ascension (Acts 1)
2) Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas (Acts 1)
3) The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost (Acts 2)
4) Peter speaks ot converts / Disciples have fellowship (Acts 2)
5) Peter heals a beggar / speaks to the crowd (Acts 3)
6) Peter/John brought to the Sanhedrin (Acts 4)
7) The Apostles perform miracles and are persecuted (Acts 5)
8) Disciples increase in number; Stephen sticks up to Sanhredin and gets stoned (Acts 7/8)
9) Paul gets a vision from God, and eventually some visits from the Apostles

That is a lie.

Are you saying that what you just wrote is lie, or what are you saying? do you even understand what you mean?

That one baptism is the HS baptism so by the way.

I know you believe this but not why you believe it.
Show some scriptural support for that statement.

Does baptism add one to the Lord's church or not?
see Acts 2:38, 47.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit from Christ and the Father - one baptism.

again passages?

 

[feedm3]

so you won't accuse me of not reading all of it, I'll comment ....




didn't see your other questions. i'll look at it in a minute. have to give a girl her apple juice....

So you believe to be saved is not just repent and believe in Jesus and be baptized by His Holy Spirit then continue to live a life guided by that Holy Spirit

but

repent and find someone to dunk you in water in the name of Jesus and obey all the commandments of God you label as works of obedience versus works of the law or meriteous works as found in the Bible and in that way have the Spirit in your life through His Word?

sorry I must be misreading something...

I do not understand how you do not get what I am saying. (I think you really do)

We are commanded to "repent and be baptized" -
We are commanded to Confess
Of course all this comes from belief.
When we obey these commands we are put IN Christ - then we receive the Holy Spirit not before or by any other means (and this does not mean we can perform miracles - not the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the sense the Bible uses that term.)

If you do not want to accept it no one can make you.
The Bible is clear.
Now if you would answer this for me.

Is water baptism the way the Jews in Acts 2 were added to the church according to Acts 2:38,47?
Do we have to be added to the church?
Rom 8:1 implies we are must be IN Christ in order to be saved.
How do we get IN Christ?
When and how exactly did Saul wash away his sins according to Acts 22:16.
Did Peter not understand that Baptism does not save when he stated "baptism doth also now save us" I Pet 3:21?
If I refuse to not to repent will I still be saved?
If I refuse no to confess Christ will I still be saved?
If I refuse to be baptized in water will I still be saved?

Was Acts 2:38 "repent and be baptized" a command or a suggestion?

Cronjecj feel free to answer if you want.

 

[cronjecj]

Not bugged with the truth, your words are false, but by the same old boring arguments that have already been shut down.

They are scriptural truth.

So your bored with truth 0k.

No, bored of you trying to make a point.

Really "wash away your sins" implies you still have them, dont try to twist such a simple statement.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

my point exactly and yet his sins remained until he was baptized.

Paul believed before he was baptized so does that mean God has not forgiven him his sins until he was baptized?

Scripture tells us that one is saved by believing having faith THEN after saved because we believe we go and baptize ourselves...can you see this? or not?

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Are you saying that what you just wrote is lie, or what are you saying? do you even understand what you mean?

No, i quoted you in the following,
Water - The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not for us today - freem3

I know you believe this but not why you believe it.
Show some scriptural support for that statement.

Does baptism add one to the Lord's church or not?
see Acts 2:38, 47.

again passages?

Ephesians 4:4-6 (KJV)
4.There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5.One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6.One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[feedm3]

Anandahya,
You keep asking me alot of question, I answer them and give you questions, you reply comment on what I have said, ask more questions and ignore mine.
Here is the question from my response to Rom 10:9
Please any these along with the ones I gave you in the above post.
So the question is, which passages should we use to show how a Non- Christian is to become a Christian?
Romans 10 – a statement made to already baptized Christians?
Or these above that show how non-Christians became such

 

[cronjecj]

I do not understand how you do not get what I am saying. (I think you really do)

We are commanded to "repent and be baptized" -
We are commanded to Confess
Of course all this comes from belief.
When we obey these commands we are put IN Christ - then we receive the Holy Spirit not before or by any other means (and this does not mean we can perform miracles - not the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the sense the Bible uses that term.)

If you do not want to accept it no one can make you.
The Bible is clear.
Now if you would answer this for me.

Is water baptism the way the Jews in Acts 2 were added to the church according to Acts 2:38,47?
Do we have to be added to the church?
Rom 8:1 implies we are must be IN Christ in order to be saved.
How do we get IN Christ?
When and how exactly did Saul wash away his sins according to Acts 22:16.
Did Peter not understand that Baptism does not save when he stated "baptism doth also now save us" I Pet 3:21?
If I refuse to not to repent will I still be saved?
If I refuse no to confess Christ will I still be saved?
If I refuse to be baptized in water will I still be saved?

Was Acts 2:38 "repent and be baptized" a command or a suggestion?

Cronjecj feel free to answer if you want.

When and how exactly did whosoever wash away their sins according to Romans 10:13?

 

[feedm3]

]They are scriptural truth.

In order to it to be scriptural, it must first contain scripture not your words.

No, bored of you trying to make a point.

I made my point, you just cannot deal with it as you are showing.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Was this stated to Chirsitans or Non-Chiristans?

Paul believed before he was baptized so does that mean God has not forgiven him his sins until he was baptized?

Yes it does, that is shown in the fact that it is stated “ARISE AND WASH AWAY THY SINS”
How can he wash away what he doesn’t have????????

Scripture tells us that one is saved by believing having faith THEN after saved because we believe we go and baptize ourselves...can you see this? or not?

NO it does not say that any where those are you words.

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

That’s correct, not anything we have done deserves God sending His son to die for your sins.
Does this mean we do not have to obey what is commanded???
Again, was Acts 2:38 a command or suggestion?

Ephesians 4:4-6 (KJV)
4.There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5.One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6.One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I Know the passage, I mean prove what your saying in the “One baptism” because nothing it’s immediate or remote context suggests it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[feedm3]

When and how exactly did whosoever wash away their sins according to Romans 10:13?

So your answer to my question is another question.

They did this by "calling upon the name of the Lord"

when did they do this? Rom 6:3-f. when they were baptized INTO Christ.

How did they call upon the name of the Lord?

THe same way Saul did in Acts 22:16 "Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins CALLING UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD"

They did exactly what the Jews did in Acts 2:21 "whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved"

"Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
The Romans "called upon the name of the Lord" just as Saul did and Just as the Jews did in Acts 2:
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now can you answer my questions.

 

[AnandaHya]

Anandahya,
You keep asking me alot of question, I answer them and give you questions, you reply comment on what I have said, ask more questions and ignore mine.
Here is the question from my response to Rom 10:9
Please any these along with the ones I gave you in the above post.
So the question is, which passages should we use to show how a Non- Christian is to become a Christian?
Romans 10 – a statement made to already baptized Christians?
Or these above that show how non-Christians became such

I don't believe water baptism is necessary for salvation. I believe baptism by the Holy Spirit is and I believe God still does that today because it is not water baptism that saves for that is a work of men not of God.

which passages should we use to show a non Christian to become Christian? all of them, which ones you start with depends on the person you are talking to but all of them points to Jesus and can be used to evangelized and point people to God.

Romans 10 was a statement made to a church who had baptized and unbaptized Christians in it. some had repented but not all had received the Holy Spirit yet and without the Holy Spirit they have not been adopted and do not have the Spirit that testifies with their spirits and calls out Abba Father. when I say baptized I mean with the Holy Spirit not with water. Baptism with water just shows that you have repented, bpatism with the HOly Spirit shows that you have accept ed Jesus as Lord and Savior and have a saving faith that He rose from the dead and all the promises He made to His disciples are true and from God.

yes non Christians must be baptized after they repent it is what they are baptized with that we need to discuss.

the seventy that Jesus sent out could do signs and miracles before they were ever baptized with the Holy Spirit. the accompanying signs and miracles are just that they accompany those who believe. they are signs and miracles. they are not the Holy Spirit.

 

[AnandaHya]

I do not understand how you do not get what I am saying. (I think you really do)

We are commanded to "repent and be baptized" -
We are commanded to Confess
Of course all this comes from belief.
When we obey these commands we are put IN Christ - then we receive the Holy Spirit not before or by any other means (and this does not mean we can perform miracles - not the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the sense the Bible uses that term.)

If you do not want to accept it no one can make you.
The Bible is clear.
Now if you would answer this for me.

Is water baptism the way the Jews in Acts 2 were added to the church according to Acts 2:38,47? no mention of water but the Holy Spirit does appear in those verses...hmmm...

Do we have to be added to the church? yes
Rom 8:1 implies we are must be IN Christ in order to be saved.
How do we get IN Christ? by being baptized by His holy Spirit and being given a NEW heart and New spirit and being born again by allow the living water of His love to fill our hearts and the Seed of His Word and Spirit to grow and bear fruit.
When and how exactly did Saul wash away his sins according to Acts 22:16.

16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

yep Saul who is later called Paul was baptized with the Holy Spirit...

New King James Version (NKJV)
Acts 9

The Damascus Road: Saul Converted

1 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.[a] It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. 8 Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Ananias Baptizes Saul


10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”
And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

any mention of water? "and be filled with the Holy Spirit" seems to me to correspond with "and was baptized" kind of like "that you may receive your sight" goes with "he received his sight at once"

call me simple minded but that is how I read the text right there is baptism by the Holy Spirit....

Did Peter not understand that Baptism does not save when he stated "baptism doth also now save us" I Pet 3:21? he is referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit which joins the body of Christ as One.
If I refuse to not to repent will I still be saved? nope
If I refuse no to confess Christ will I still be saved? nope
If I refuse to be baptized in water will I still be saved? yep, its not the water its the HOLY SPIRIT that saves and that people must be baptized with. Salvation is a work of GOD not men.

Was Acts 2:38 "repent and be baptized" a command or a suggestion? command its just baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT not of just water that is commanded.

Cronjecj feel free to answer if you want.

did i get all the questions answered this time?

i think we disagree upon what the Holy Spirit baptism is. I believe God still gives spiritual gifts to His people today, just what they need to do His will, nothing more, nothing less.

signs and wonders, that is a whole another topic.