What's Really Happening?

[systemdown101]

Okay, let's try this. Then I'm taking a long break. Long posts with breaks give me migraines assembling them.

what on earth are you on about?
oh....that would be the connect- zone -to -hitler thing....ya. i'll add that to my sig also.
been here done this.

my suggestion is STOP SUPPORTING ISRAELI fascism and racism.
let her learn to get along with her neighbours.

You know, I shouldn't have included you in the same group as Tribesman and Ada, so I apologize for that.

Israel should get along with her neighbors. Which would be an awesome thing if her neighbors didn't have that "let's wipe Israel off the face of the map" philosophy going. Heck, most of the maps they use in Arab countries don't even have an Israel on them. Kind of hard to negotiate with people who for the most part don't even acknowledge your right to exist.

Or use children's programming to propogandize little kids. Remember Martyr Mouse? I'm amazed Disney didn't sue them out of existence for that one.

are you a Christian?

not surprised you can read all those quotes and openly deny they mean what they say and that its a reality even now. its not a conspiracy anymore. they're in the open.

I believe that Yeshua was the Messiah foretold. I believe and try to do what was commanded in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, even though I often fall short and keep praying for forgiveness. I believe that he died and rose again. I think that covers the basics.

See, this is what Crossfire was trying to tell you. Because I came to a different conclusion than you did about your quotes, you doubt whether I'm saved. At the very least, it's disingenuous, and at worst, it confirms what he said: That anyone who disagrees with your opinion isn't a Christian.

Near as I can tell, Yeshua is the final arbiter of who is saved. Not anyone else on this board, not me, and not you.

oh. so now they ARE acting in accord.
now there IS a one-world system taking place.

I was trying to say there's two ways of looking at it.

BUT! DON'T SEE WHO IS INVOLVED! NO!
sssshhhhhhh.....

I don't think most if any of the people you think are involved are involved. I personally think that Satan is stirring up stuff on earth right now in order to set his plans in motion. What I don't think is happening is all these groups acting in tandem. The closest it might come at the moment is Satan giving a nudge here or there and setting the stage to get all these disparate groups to act under his accord, but they're too politically opposite each other to really function as any kind of a real team. And in any event, the sheer size of such a conspiracy would inevitably lead to it falling apart.

who said anything about stopping it?
i post on it for ONE REASON ONLY - to counter Christian Zionism and Dispensational Theology.

ok?

I've never really gotten into any of the ism's thrown about here. I did a nominal search of the term "Christian Zionism and got "Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. The idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged to become Christian, as a means fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been common in Protestant circles since the Reformation."

... and don't see a thing wrong with that. Dispensationalist theology - *shrugs* I'm not quite so sure about that. It strikes me as saying that the nature of God changes when He doesn't.

Biblical Israel does exist.
she's Christ's church.

that nation in the middle east is fulfilling something else.

The nation in the middle east is fulfilling God's plan. Shall we take a look? Oh, and if these quotes run a bit long, simply read the ones bolded in blue for the ones I really want you to see.

Disobedience would lead to the nation of Israel being scattered amongst all nations.
Deut 28:64 'Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.'
See also Lev 26:33, Jer 9:16, Ezek 12:15. In all, 6 different books of the Bible predict the scattering of Israel amongst all the nations of the earth. History records this being fulfilled in 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Empire and the remaining Jews were scattered amongst the nations.

I listed this one because of the word "scattered. Go down to the prophecy bolded in blue to see why it's important.

God himself would restore the Jews to the land of Israel from all the nations
Jer 16:14-16 However, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when men will no longer say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers.
In all, 13 books of the Bible speak of the nation of Israel being restored in their land from the nations in which they were scattered. This prophecy became history in 1948 when the United Nations granted a homeland to the Jewish people and the nation of Israel was reborn! See also Jer 3:14, 31:8-9, Isa 60:8-9, Deut 30:3, Amos 9:15.

Doesn't work unless you say that Christ's Church needs land restored to them. Besides, they were scattered according to the previous prophecy, not the Church. .

The desolate land of Israel would again blossom and be fruitful in the last days.
Zech 7:14 I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations, where they were strangers. The land was left so desolate behind them that no one could come or go. This is how they made the pleasant land desolate.
History records that while the Jewish people were exiled amongst many nations, the land of Israel was a barren desert. See also Lev 26:14, Ezek 15:8, Jer 9:12-13, 23:10, 44:22, Isa 32:13
Isa 27:6 In the days to come, Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill the world with fruit.
This is exactly the case today! Not only has God bought the Jewish people back into their land like He said He would in the last days, but He has also blessed the land so that they now export flowers and fruit around the world! Satellite photos show the green pastures of the nation of Israel, in sharp contrast with the surrounding desert lands of the Arab nations. See also Isa 35:1, Ezek 36:35.

Doesn't work if you assume Christ's Church is Israel here.

God Himself would defend Israel and cause Israel to be mighty in battle
Zech 12:8 On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.
Taken in context, this verse speaks about God defending Israel in a battle to come in the last days. Have we not seen this miraculously occur several times since Israel became a nation again in 1948. They have been greatly outnumbered in key Arab-Israeli wars in 1948, 1967, and 1973. Yet Israel exists! God has seen to that!

Doesn't work if you assume Christ's Church is Israel here.

6. In the last days, Jerusalem would be a burden to the entire world.
Zech 12:2-3 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about... And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces.
Turn on your TV and watch the news. What nation and what city would you most likely expect to see? Israel and Jerusalem! Today, Jerusalem is a burden that causes trembling for all the nations just as God foretold. What makes this prophecy even more remarkable is that when the prophet Zechariah spoke these words around 520BC, Jerusalem lay in ruins. But God said it would become the focus of the world's attention! Today, Israel has 0.01% of the worlds population, yet 33% of the United Nations resolutions have been passed concerning her!

Note the bolded part. Do you REALLY want to burden yourself with Jerusalem?

In the end, all nations shall come against Israel.
Zech 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped.
Apart from the USA, Israel has few allies. In a recent conference on racism in South Africa, the Israeli and United States delegates were forced to walk out as the other participating nations vented their anger towards Israel and tried to declare it a racist state. One day, the Bible predicts, she will have no allies, and all nations shall be gathered against her. The TV news will show you that we are on the road towards that battle. But if the odds seem a little uneven, please read the next prophecy that the Bible predicts...

So, rest easy. The US won't always support Israel. the Bible predicts death and sorrow and rape in Israel. Unless you assume that Israel is Christs Church. Then there might be trouble.

God Himself, Jesus Christ, will return and fight for Israel against the attacking nations.
Zech 14:3-4 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.
You may have heard of this battle to come. It's called the battle of Armageddon because of the location where the nations assemble themselves before attacking. The book of Revelation puts it like this...
Rev 16:14-16 They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty... Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Revelation also prophecies the return of Jesus Christ on this day saying...
Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.

Doesn't work if you assume Israel is Christ's church. And why would Jesus defend Israel anyway? You'd think He loved it or something. Nah, that can't be right.

The best part:

The nation of Israel will finally recognize that Jesus was their Messiah, whom they crucified!
Zech 12:9-10 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem. And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
What a day that will be! Even though the Bible predicted that the Messiah would die, and have His feet and hands pierced, the nation of Israel has, for the last 2000 years, hardened their heart and not believed that Jesus was their Messiah. At the time of the end, they will again look to the one whom they pierced and oh how great the mourning and sadness will be on that day for what they did! Yet Jesus will pour out His grace upon Israel!

Yep.

God will judge the nations depending upon their treatment of the Jewish people.
Joel 1:1-2 In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
Today we live in an age where we hear all the time about a 'Middle-East peace process'. It essentially comes down to 'Israel give up more of your land and we won't send as many suicide bombers into your cities...' It seems everyone wants a slice of Jerusalem for themselves. For this, and the world's repeated and continual abysmal treatment of the Jewish people, the judgment of God will come.

Doesn't work if you assume Israel is Christ's church, because ... can you name someone Yeshua would name "My people" who were "scattered" amongst the nations?

This is awesome stuff! Man, I love Bible prophecy.

*gasp*!
i didn't see THAT coming!
get real man.

zone WALLENSTEIN

Non sequitur. Your last name means nothing outside of that you are probably of German descent and not necessarily of Jewish ancestry, and even then that's just a guess on my part. I mean, you can't even call the Popes Catholic anymore, Ada says they're Jewish.

 

[zone]

I believe that Yeshua was the Messiah foretold. I believe and try to do what was commanded in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, even though I often fall short and keep praying for forgiveness. I believe that he died and rose again. I think that covers the basics.

See, this is what Crossfire was trying to tell you. Because I came to a different conclusion than you did about your quotes, you doubt whether I'm saved. At the very least, it's disingenuous, and at worst, it confirms what he said: That anyone who disagrees with your opinion isn't a Christian.

did i say you weren't?
or did i ask if you were?

not everyone on the forum is.

is Jesus Deity?

I've never really gotten into any of the ism's thrown about here. I did a nominal search of the term "Christian Zionism and got "Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. The idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged to become Christian, as a means fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been common in Protestant circles since the Reformation."

... and don't see a thing wrong with that. Dispensationalist theology - *shrugs* I'm not quite so sure about that. It strikes me as saying that the nature of God changes when He doesn't.

so we don't really have much to discuss until you bother to find out what dispensational theology is.

because all those Zechariah quotes you used are fulfilled in Christ.

i do 'encourage' jews to become christian...elsewhere.
part of that means knowing what their real religion and beliefs are.
do you?

Non sequitur. Your last name means nothing outside of that you are probably of German descent and not necessarily of Jewish ancestry, and even then that's just a guess on my part. I mean, you can't even call the Popes Catholic anymore, Ada says they're Jewish.

so why are you guessing?

should i add liar to my sig too?
you think i don't know who i am?

some of the popes are and have been jewish.
but you'd have to bother researching history to find out.

plus....being "jewish" has zippo to do with Moses anyways.
can't lead anybody to Christ.
you know that tho.

The Pharisees
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

better call the ADL on the jews who set up their Pharisees page.
sounds antisemitic.

bye.
maybe next time we talk we can discuss dispensational theology and why you hold to it.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Tribesman & Jimmy,

Howdy Crossfire,

It is obvious that there are people here who are looking to demonize anything and anyone which does not agree with their exact theology. No one is safe.

Dare I say, that is not far from what you do as well? I mean, you kind of run around talking about how evil Calvinism is all the time, trying to paint it with ad hominems instead of addressing it. Let's atleast be honest and fair here buddy.

In their eyes, if you do not agree with them, even on minor details, you are a child of Satan especially those who question their beliefs and conspiracy theories.

Eh, I get it all the time from the opposite side of the aisle as well.

Over the last year, since I first encountered these people, I have seen nothing from them but religious rhetoric about how every belief system but theirs is wrong.

As a Christian, I believe every other belief system is wrong as it does not acknowledge Christ as God, and the only way unto salvation. That's kind of the rules of the game, isn't it? Truth is truth is truth.

I have also seen these same people verbally assault and even slander those who would stand up to them regardless of what belief system they hold to.

Is that not what you do as well? From what I have read, it appears you are just as guilty as they.

I have yet to see an ounce of Christian love or compassion from these people for those that they are trying 'correct'. However, I have read plenty of hate speech from these people for those who would reject their ideas. Often times I wonder if these people ever pray for their opponents or even attempt to lift a finger to help those who might disagree with them other than attempting to force feed their beliefs down the throats of others.

While I at times wish Zone and others would not use some of the language that is used (this goes for everyone), I don't think I could make the claim that there is no love and compassion to be observed. I have certainly observed it at times, but I cannot produce evidence at this point. So you can be reasonably skeptical about that, if you so wish.

Scripture teaches us that we reap what we sow. If you sow seeds of love and respect, you will reap the fruit of love and respect. However, if you sow the seeds of strife and hatred, then you will reap strife and hatred. That is exactly what these people have done and it has reached a boiling point.

I think I could agree to this.

You can only push someone to the ground so many times before that person pushes back.

In many cases this is true, however, we are not called to hit back. Should give them the other cheek, my dear Crossfire. I admit, though, that doing so is often not easy a'tall.

That's exactly what you are seeing here. Basically several Amillennialists on these forums bully anyone who does not agree with their theology then demonize those who push back. These forums have become the online version of an elementary school playground.

I don't really pay attention much to the whole Eschatology threads, because I have no clue what much of it is about.



Oh, Crossfire. Could you answer my question in regard to Congressman Paul?

You said he was Amillinealist and racist, and I think you should substantiate this or apologize for lieing. You may very well be telling the truth. I don't know, that is why I am asking.


So, if you ignore this question a second time. I will make our own little thread.


I hope you're feeling better today Crossfire, thank you for reading this!

 

[jimmydiggs]

eh...just appeal to jimmy and tribesman...maybe they'll agree to rough me up at recess.

>

 

[systemdown101]

did i say you weren't?
or did i ask if you were?
not everyone on the forum is.
is Jesus Deity?

Asking me if I'm a Christian while arguing with me is sort of like the question "When did you stop beating your wife?". It is disingenuous for you to backpedal like that and you know it.

And for the record, He is.

so we don't really have much to discuss until you bother to find out what dispensational theology is.

I have not the slightest care about it one way or the other. A bunch of believers making up rules as to how to believe and that you're correct if you follow one or another set of man-made rules interpreting the Bible? Hmm. Isn't there a word for that?

i do 'encourage' jews to become christian...elsewhere.
part of that means knowing what their real religion and beliefs are.
do you?

I've been Bar Mitzvah'd, took classes at the synagogue and have been a Jew longer than a Believer. Both my parents are Jews - well, my father died, so in his case it's past tense, but still - both were active in the local Temple. I think I do, yeah. So, tell me where most of your knowledge of Judaism comes from: Actual experience in a synagogue talking with actual Jews, eating their food and experiencing their lives, or reading about them on websites?

so why are you guessing?

should i add liar to my sig too?
you think i don't know who i am?

Oh, I think you do. But you're missing the point, either willingly or not. You posted "Zone Wallenstein". Okay, so what WAS your point by mentioning it? That you can't be anti-semetic because you have a last name that sounds Jewish was the only answer I could come up with. Otherwise, there was no reason to bring it up at all. If you brought up your name as a defense and as a debate point, then I most certainly can comment on it.

some of the popes are and have been jewish.
but you'd have to bother researching history to find out.

See, now if I wanted to be disingenuous here, I would say "So, SOME of the Popes ARE Jewish? How many Popes are there right now? I thought there was only one!" But I know what you meant when you said that. And the thing is, you most certainly knew what I meant when I posted. Pope Ratz here ...

Many of the last popes have been jewish!So is ratzinger!

The guy was a member of the Hitler Youth. If you're gonna call a Catholic Pope and former Nazi a Jew, then up is down and black is white. This is what I meant in an earlier post when I said some people think history is a fluid concept.

plus....being "jewish" has zippo to do with Moses anyways.
can't lead anybody to Christ.
you know that tho.

The Jews consider Moses their greatest prophet so that's incorrect. In and of himself, probably not, you'd need the further prophecies of Isaiah, Zachariah, and others to do it. Moses made *relatively* few Messianic prophecies compared to others in the OT although MUCH of what he did pointed the way towards Yeshua. Interesting thing though. The Torah records that God talked to Moses face to face, as a friend. I've always wondered what wonderful and fascinating conversations they had, and wish they had been recorded.

bye.
maybe next time we talk we can discuss dispensational theology and why you hold to it.

How do you get from me saying

Dispensationalist theology - *shrugs* I'm not quite so sure about that. It strikes me as saying that the nature of God changes when He doesn't.

... to me saying I hold to it?

 

[Abiding]

 

[zone]

I've been Bar Mitzvah'd, took classes at the synagogue and have been a Jew longer than a Believer. Both my parents are Jews - well, my father died, so in his case it's past tense, but still - both were active in the local Temple. I think I do, yeah. So, tell me where most of your knowledge of Judaism comes from: Actual experience in a synagogue talking with actual Jews, eating their food and experiencing their lives, or reading about them on websites?

i have to attend synagogue and eat meals with jews to know about Judaism?
nah.

i talk to jews alot tho. and study a little.

and you're the first one i've EVER spoken to who tries to deflect from a discussion of what Judaism is by saying 'jews consider Moses their greatest prophet'.

Moses may be considered the greatest "prophet", but he doesn't really figure prominently in Judaism SD, does he..... Sages do.

let's talk about Oral Tradition, okay?
and Talmud (and related texts).

why'd you X the wiki post on the Pharisees?
is the following an accurate representation of JUDAISM today SD?:

The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees

Oh, I think you do. But you're missing the point, either willingly or not. You posted "Zone Wallenstein". Okay, so what WAS your point by mentioning it? That you can't be anti-semetic because you have a last name that sounds Jewish was the only answer I could come up with. Otherwise, there was no reason to bring it up at all. If you brought up your name as a defense and as a debate point, then I most certainly can comment on it.

you can comment on it all you like.
it wouldn't matter if i provided you with any amount of personal genealogical information - you'll still call me antisemitic.
it happens to anyone - gentile OR jews/people of jewish descent who speak against israel...or Talmud.

so?

what i do find interesting is that as a christian raised jewish you're not more forthcoming than you are about the jewish attitude toward gentiles, and christians in particular.

one needn't even be forthcoming. but to ridicule and attack someone who does tell the truth? paranoid schizophrenic...conspiracy theorist...antisemite...wants hitler's solution.....wiped off the map...

what up wit dat?
why you do that when you know the truth?

See, now if I wanted to be disingenuous here, I would say "So, SOME of the Popes ARE Jewish? How many Popes are there right now? I thought there was only one!" But I know what you meant when you said that. And the thing is, you most certainly knew what I meant when I posted. Pope Ratz here ...

ada doesn't speak for me.
or vice versa.

have some popes been jewish? yes or no?

The guy was a member of the Hitler Youth. If you're gonna call a Catholic Pope and former Nazi a Jew, then up is down and black is white. This is what I meant in an earlier post when I said some people think history is a fluid concept.

please don't confuse me with ada. talk to me about what i say. thanks.
i'm not bothering with history at this point. you have your worldview. that's fine.

George Soros said he'd do what he did again.
is he a member of the community in good standing?
is up down in his case?

The Jews consider Moses their greatest prophet so that's incorrect. In and of himself, probably not, you'd need the further prophecies of Isaiah, Zachariah, and others to do it. Moses made *relatively* few Messianic prophecies compared to others in the OT although MUCH of what he did pointed the way towards Yeshua. Interesting thing though. The Torah records that God talked to Moses face to face, as a friend. I've always wondered what wonderful and fascinating conversations they had, and wish they had been recorded.

that had nothing to do with what i said and i think you know that.
Judaism has little to do with Moses and the prophets...i wonder if you'll ever address this honestly?

if it did far more jews would be Christians by now.

How do you get from me saying ... to me saying I hold to it?

if you're using OT prophets to project a future 1,000 years for unfulfilled prophecies, or any concerning the salvation of jews for that matter, you hold to dispensational theology.

so SD:

interested in a discussion in the state of israel?
Judaism?

 

[Abiding]

Truth?! Well, let's see. It's the "truth" that Iran (their leadership) wants to eradicate Israel. It's the "truth" that they don't stop there; they want to eliminate every Christian in this world, or see them all converted to Islam. It's the "truth" that they would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons if they had them; just to hasten the appearance of the twelfth Imman.

Now let's see. Is this a reason for going to war with a pre-emptive strike? If you don't think so, you need to look at God's marching orders to the Isrealites when they were were preparing to take the promised land. In essence, He told them "leave none alive".

Wake up people! We are at war! And if we don't win, the radical Muslims will. And woe to all of us if that happens.

HEY DAVE, while you working over others rep...maybe provide some evidence for what your saying.

 

[systemdown101]

i have to attend synagogue and eat meals with jews to know about Judaism?
nah.

Well ... yeah. Otherwise, it's just discussing a theoretical concept without any concrete knowledge. I could read up on baseball all I want, maybe call up someone who's played it once or twice, but until I hold a bat in my hand, play a game, or eat a hot dog at a stadium, I'm just playing an intellectual game of sorts.

why'd you X the wiki post on the Pharisees?

Didn't particularly want to get into a long discussion on it since my post was already long enough, much as you didn't want to discuss some of the points I brought up like the fact that Israel's neighbors do NOT want to live in peace with Israel. Quick fact: I've spent over 40 min on this post right now, and I'm putting in the quote marks in the correct place. I have a major migraine doing this. I'm not really able to argue on as much as I'd like.

you can comment on it all you like.
it wouldn't matter if i provided you with any amount of personal genealogical information - you'll still call me antisemitic.
it happens to anyone - gentile OR jews/people of jewish descent who speak against israel...or Talmud.

Here's the thing: You sure speak out an awful lot against Israel ... and the Talmud ... and the Zionist Conspiracies ... and so forth. But you're awfully sensitive to being called that for someone who is super-critical of Israel. And I'm sure a great many of your close to nine thousand or so posts are on the same subject. After awhile, people start to wonder, why so many posts about Israel unless ...?

And I don't even CARE about the Talmud. I've never even read it.

so?

what i do find interesting is that as a christian raised jewish you're not more forthcoming than you are about the jewish attitude toward gentiles, and christians in particular.

one needn't even be forthcoming. but to ridicule and attack someone who does tell the truth? paranoid schizophrenic...conspiracy theorist...antisemite...wants hitler's solution.....wiped off the map...

What's to tell? Jewish attitude towards Gentiles? Well, after over a thousand years of being told to pack up and leave the country, confiscation of land and property, special taxes levied against them, laws proscribing where you work and where to live and who to marry and what to wear, laws taking away your rights, burnings, pogroms, beatings, forced conversions, blood libels, being held personally responsible for the death of Yeshua, stuff like that, what would you EXPECT?

BTW, I was quite careful to state that "some" were reminding me of a paranoid schizophrenic. But let's face it, that's often the hallmark of a person who sees conspiracies everywhere.

ada doesn't speak for me.
or vice versa.

I don't think you disagree with him though. But you make a fair point. Okay

have some popes been jewish? yes or no?

Not the point. He says the CURRENT one is. But I'm more concerned about his saying that Israel controls the Cartoon Network.

please don't confuse me with ada. talk to me about what i say. thanks.
i'm not bothering with history at this point. you have your worldview. that's fine.

I can accept that

George Soros said he'd do what he did again.
is he a member of the community in good standing?
is up down in his case?

Oh, dear. George Soros. I am so politically opposed to that man I could explode. Don't ever mention his name to me again. He couldn't do the right thing if it carried a blinking neon sign.

that had nothing to do with what i said and i think you know that.
Judaism has little to do with Moses and the prophets...i wonder if you'll ever address this honestly?

Maybe I grew up in the wrong temple?

if it did far more jews would be Christians by now.

If they read the Bible more, prayed over the prophecies, and avoided people screaming how Christians were Jews and how Israel has no right to exist, yeah. But I'll say it again: The biggest stumbling block to the Jew becoming a Christian ... is the Average Christian.

You've seen the "Is Israel in Prophecy" thread. Can you imagine a Christian going up to a Jew and saying "Oh, we are Israel now, and we are the Jews." There's a Jew I'm trying to work on now, and I will tell you that I will NEVER show him this website and for far more reasons than that thread alone, although its symptomatic of what's here.

if you're using OT prophets to project a future 1,000 years for unfulfilled prophecies, or any concerning the salvation of jews for that matter, you hold to dispensational theology.

I read it over, and I agree with some of it, but not all. Then again, I see some truth in a number of the ism's although I'd hate to be associated with any of them fully.

so SD:

interested in a discussion in the state of israel?
Judaism?

Isn't this post long enough?

 

[systemdown101]

HEY DAVE, while you working over others rep...maybe provide some evidence for what your saying.

Well ...

Iran's new president has repeated a remark from a former ayatollah that Israel should be "wiped out from the map," insisting that a new series of attacks will destroy the Jewish state, and lashing out at Muslim countries and leaders that acknowledge Israel.

The remarks by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- reported by Islamic Republic News Agency -- coincide with a month-long protest against Israel called "World without Zionism" and with the approach of Jerusalem Day.

World without Zionism is a nationwide event the planners intend to hold annually, and Ahmadinejad made the remarks during a meeting with protesting students at the Interior Ministry.

Ahmadinejad quoted a remark from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, who said that Israel "must be wiped out from the map of the world."

The president then said: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," according to a quote published by IRNA.

The Jewish state has diplomatic relations with major Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan and Turkey, and the Gaza disengagement has improved ties between Israel and some other Muslim nations and leaders.

But Ahmadinejad said the "new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away," according to paraphrased statements in the IRNA report.

He also described Israel's disengagement from Gaza as a "trick" meant to make "Islamic states acknowledge the Zionist regime of Israel," according to the report.

The United States and Israel are sowing "discord among warring forces in Palestine and other parts of the Islamic world," the report paraphrased Ahmadinejad as saying.

In the process, such attempts were forcing Muslim nations to normalize relations with Israel, he said.

Ahmadinejad is quoted as saying, "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

Ahmadinejad's comments prompted the French foreign minister to summon the Iranian ambassador to Paris for an explanation. France is one of the European countries that has been involved in negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program.

French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said he learned about Ahmadinejad's comments from news reports that indicate the Iranian president called for Israel's destruction and said the conflict in the Middle East would result in a fight between Jews and Muslims.

"If these comments are correct, they are unacceptable. I greatly condemn them and have asked for the Iranian ambassador in Paris to be summoned to the Foreign Ministry to demand explanations," Douste-Blazy said.

"For France, the right for Israel to exist should not be contested. This state was created by a decision of the U.N. General Assembly. International law applies to all. The question of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict cannot be used as a pretext to put into question the fundamental right for Israel to exist."

One top Iranian religious leader, Ayatollah Nori Hamadani, said in a written statement it is incumbent upon Muslims to wrest Palestine from the Israelis.

He urged Iranians to protest on Friday -- which is Jerusalem Day, commemorated by Iranians to honor Jerusalem, where Israel has established its capital, and renew their support for an establishment of a Palestinian state.

and

“I will stop Christianity in this country,” Ahmadinejad reportedly vowed.

 

[CrimsonFlames]

What's to tell? Jewish attitude towards Gentiles? Well, after over a thousand years of being told to pack up and leave the country, confiscation of land and property, special taxes levied against them, laws proscribing where you work and where to live and who to marry and what to wear, laws taking away your rights, burnings, pogroms, beatings, forced conversions, blood libels, being held personally responsible for the death of Yeshua, stuff like that, what would you EXPECT?

Now if I was to say that as an aboriginal person about my own peoples persecutions what do you think the response would be?

 

[zone]

The biggest stumbling block to the Jew becoming a Christian ... is the Average Christian.

no it isn't....that's a lie.

the stumbling Stone is Jesus.

they hate Him.
they're taught to.
and you know it.

 

[zone]

Well ...

and

sorry...i no longer take what MSM gives out as fact.
they lie.
i can do real politics too. another day.

 

[CrimsonFlames]

Romans 9:33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Matthew 21:42 Then Jesus asked them, "Didn't you ever read this in the Scriptures? 'The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone. This is the LORD's doing, and it is wonderful to see.'

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Psalm 118:
21I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
22The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

 

[zone]

Romans 9:33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Matthew 21:42 Then Jesus asked them, "Didn't you ever read this in the Scriptures? 'The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone. This is the LORD's doing, and it is wonderful to see.'

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

and what is this Zion?

Hebrews 12
A Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken
18For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest 19and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. 20For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” 22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23and to the assemblya of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[Abiding]

why twice in an article do you have to say you are paraphrasing a statement
that has a worldwide effect? I thought there was something new when i asked for
evidence...boy has this bit of slightly twisted news got milage on it.

 

[CrimsonFlames]

why twice in an article do you have to say you are paraphrasing a statement
that has a worldwide effect? I thought there was something new when i asked for
evidence...boy has this bit of slightly twisted news got milage on it.

Abiding was just quoted as having said he will release a poison into the Hoover Dam., a poison "that has a worldwide effect"

He went on to say "I thought there was something new when i asked" for a ransom.., he closed up saying the government "bit of slightly" more than they could chew when they undermined his seriousness

Thats it., your done for Abiding.., your a confirmed terrorist and should hand yourself in