Sabbath made for Man

[Laodicea]

No one keeps the Law. The Law is a curse to us. Jesus saves us from this Curse. We are to strive after the Spirit and the fruits of the Spirit. Fleshly things we leave behind. The Law just shows us the flaws of our flesh. The Law is not against the Spirit. It can't be.

Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self-Control are what we try to keep after we have been saved. They are the fruits of the spirit. Against such there is no Law, and therefore no curse.

And also the ceremonial law does point to the work of Christ. But it is not what the Lord saved us from on His Cross. He saved us from the Curse of the Law. From sin.

As I said no one is saved by keeping the Law. The Law points to Christ. The Law shows us that we have need of a saviour. God gave to Israel the Law & the gospel. He gave the 10 commandments then the sanctuary message which teaches the gospel all in Exodus. The curse is not the Law it the Law of sin and death is the curse
Romans 8:2-4
(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:6
(6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
1 John 2:1
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Grandpa]

As I said no one is saved by keeping the Law. The Law points to Christ. The Law shows us that we have need of a saviour. God gave to Israel the Law & the gospel. He gave the 10 commandments then the sanctuary message which teaches the gospel all in Exodus. The curse is not the Law it the Law of sin and death is the curse
Romans 8:2-4
(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:6
(6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
1 John 2:1
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The Law of sin and death is the same Law Jesus Nailed to His Cross and the same Law that Moses handed down. Each of these verses is not talking about different laws. The Law that kills us, the Law that is contrary to us, the Law that shows us our sin and therefore our death, Is the Law that Jesus has saved us from.

Jesus saved us from having to follow the flesh. He taught us to follow the spirit. Now you are saying we must go back to following the flesh and keep the Law. That is not how the Law is kept. The Law is kept by abiding in Christ and the Lord blessing you with the fruit of the Spirit. Against which there is no Law.

But... If you think you need to keep the Law, then you absolutely should. Because you have not been sufficiently broken yet to cry out to God. That's what it takes is a broken heart and a contrite spirit that cries out to God for Salvation. Until the Lord shows you, you will think that He requires behaviour modification from you. But that is not the case. The Lord requires Heart Transformation. He provides it. All blessings and good things come from the Lord Jesus.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


I underlined the verse in your post that answers ALL of your questioning...

 

[tribesman]

We cannot keep the whole law. But the question is what attitude a saved soul has towards the law. Seeing it as "abolished" or even "fleshly", or as something he delights in and strives to keep, out of gratefulness and love towards God? Not a hard question.

Ps.1

[1] Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
[2] But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
[3] And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
[4] The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
[5] Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
[6] For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

 

[Grandpa]

We cannot keep the whole law. But the question is what attitude a saved soul has towards the law. Seeing it as "abolished" or even "fleshly", or as something he delights in and strives to keep, out of gratefulness and love towards God? Not a hard question.

I am surprised by this. I thought saved Christians have a better grasp on this. Gods Law cannot be abolished. The Law is like a mirror that shows us our sins, our flaws. That is why flesh cannot stand in the presence of the Lord under its own righteousness. By thinking that you keep the Law or a portion of the Law then you are thinking that you can be righteous in front of the Lord by your own fleshly works of the Law. Our only righteousness is by the imputed righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have none on our own. That is why the Lord Jesus said to seek His face. So we would stop looking in the mirror.

The Law is a great, awesome, and terrifying thing. Just like God Himself. To bring it down to a spot where fleshly men can keep it and be righteous does the Law a disservice. After the Lord Jesus saves us we don't say "Thank You Lord, I've got this now, I can keep the Law". Like all you needed was a little boost. The Lord continues to show us how to walk after He saves us. The Holy Spirit teaches us through the Word how to walk in the Spirit. And that is how the Law is kept. The Law is still kept, just not by our flesh. Our spirit keeps the Law.

The Lord Jesus came to set the captives free. But the captives keep looking back and try to get into captivity again. Who the Lord sets Free is Free indeed.

 

[Laodicea]

I am surprised by this. I thought saved Christians have a better grasp on this. Gods Law cannot be abolished. The Law is like a mirror that shows us our sins, our flaws. That is why flesh cannot stand in the presence of the Lord under its own righteousness. By thinking that you keep the Law or a portion of the Law then you are thinking that you can be righteous in front of the Lord by your own fleshly works of the Law. Our only righteousness is by the imputed righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have none on our own. That is why the Lord Jesus said to seek His face. So we would stop looking in the mirror.

The Law is a great, awesome, and terrifying thing. Just like God Himself. To bring it down to a spot where fleshly men can keep it and be righteous does the Law a disservice. After the Lord Jesus saves us we don't say "Thank You Lord, I've got this now, I can keep the Law". Like all you needed was a little boost. The Lord continues to show us how to walk after He saves us. The Holy Spirit teaches us through the Word how to walk in the Spirit. And that is how the Law is kept. The Law is still kept, just not by our flesh. Our spirit keeps the Law.

The Lord Jesus came to set the captives free. But the captives keep looking back and try to get into captivity again. Who the Lord sets Free is Free indeed.

So then you agree that the Law is not abolished which includes the Sabbath and that Christ in us can keep the Law.
John 15:5
(5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Philippians 1:6
(6) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform (finish) it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:13
(13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Colossians 1:27
(27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

With Christ in us would He keep the Sabbath or would Christ in us break that Law? With Christ in us would He keep the 10 commandments or break them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then you agree that the Law is not abolished which includes the Sabbath and that Christ in us can keep the Law.
John 15:5
(5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Philippians 1:6
(6) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform (finish) it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:13
(13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Colossians 1:27
(27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

With Christ in us would He keep the Sabbath or would Christ in us break that Law? With Christ in us would He keep the 10 commandments or break them?

I think romans 14 comes to play. One should not judge a person over observing a day, or days. as long as they do it as unto the lord.

 

[Laodicea]

I think romans 14 comes to play. One should not judge a person over observing a day, or days. as long as they do it as unto the lord.

Do you know that the word Sabbath is not mentioned in Romans 14? So it cannot be talking about that. Romans 14 is talking about things like fasting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you know that the word Sabbath is not mentioned in Romans 14? So it cannot be talking about that. Romans 14 is talking about things like fasting.

the words "esteem one day above another" has nothing to do with fasting my friend.

 

[Laodicea]

the words "esteem one day above another" has nothing to do with fasting my friend.

Brother, Romans 14 is referring to our conscience

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Brother, Romans 14 is referring to our conscience

Brother romans 14 is dealing with judging a brother for not eating meat (jewish) vs eating meat. And esteeming one day (jewish sabaath) over another vs esteeming every day.

Rom 14:

1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Chris

 

[HEisgreaterthani]

Grace is Gods mercy and forgiveness towards us. He forgives us for not keeping His Law.
Jesus definition of Law was more stringent than what the Jews thought they were "keeping". Jesus was showing them that they in fact do not keep Gods Law. The definition of the Law was not Grace. Jesus sacrifice on the Cross is Grace. His atoning for our sins is Grace.

Righteousness is imputed to us by Faith in Jesus Christ. Not by any works of any Laws we think we keep.

Poor people. You have ears and do not hear. Eyes and do not see. Why won't you see? Its all about Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross.

Jesus didn't make it harder for us to come to God. He made it easy. He said 'Come, you who are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest'. We were heavily burdened by the Law that we could not keep. But Jesus freed us from that guilt of not being able to keep His Law. He died for our sins.

Is it better to be lawless than to serve God acceptably?

 

[Laodicea]

Brother romans 14 is dealing with judging a brother for not eating meat (jewish) vs eating meat. And esteeming one day (jewish sabaath) over another vs esteeming every day.

Rom 14:

1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Chris

I have to disagree with you because the Bible never calls the Sabbath the Sabbath of the Jews but, always the Sabbath of the Lord also the word Sabbath is not mentioned in this chapter.

 

[HEisgreaterthani]

Brother romans 14 is dealing with judging a brother for not eating meat (jewish) vs eating meat. And esteeming one day (jewish sabaath) over another vs esteeming every day.

Paul speaks to Gentiles who were accustomed to the eight-day week known as the nundinal cycle starting with Nundinae or Market Day. The book of Romans was finished in 58AD and Constantine established the seven-day week in 321AD.
In the Septuagint, the word “koinos—common” which is used at Romans 14:14 to designate “unclean” food. This term is different from the word “akathartos—impure, unclean” used in Leviticus 11 designating unlawful food. This would mean that the dispute was not over meat which was unlawful according to the Mosaic Law, but about meat which was lawful to eat but because of its association with idol worship was
regarded by some as “koinos—common,” and to be avoided by Christians. Also, you never find the word Sabbath in the entire chapter.

Is Paul suggesting refraining from idol worship (lunar days) and meats sacrificed to idols food and drink)?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to disagree with you because the Bible never calls the Sabbath the Sabbath of the Jews but, always the Sabbath of the Lord also the word Sabbath is not mentioned in this chapter.

well then prove to me what other day they could be talking about. The jews were the ones who were judging people for eating meat. The jews would have also judged people for not observing a day to the lord. what other day could it be?

if you can show me another day which would have been argued, which would be called a day given to the Lord . then I might see your point of view.

 

[HEisgreaterthani]

well then prove to me what other day they could be talking about. The jews were the ones who were judging people for eating meat. The jews would have also judged people for not observing a day to the lord. what other day could it be?

if you can show me another day which would have been argued, which would be called a day given to the Lord . then I might see your point of view.

“For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:” Romans 11:13

Paul was speaking to Gentiles, not Jews.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

“For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:” Romans 11:13

Paul was speaking to Gentiles, not Jews.

So what your saying is that these gentiles were not infiltrated by jewish beliefs just like every other church in the New Testament?

who else would have spoke of "not eating meat" or "observing a day to the Lord" Where did these beliefs come from?

 

[HEisgreaterthani]

So what your saying is that these gentiles were not infiltrated by jewish beliefs just like every other church in the New Testament?

who else would have spoke of "not eating meat" or "observing a day to the Lord" Where did these beliefs come from?

"Sacrifice to deities of the heavens (di superi, "gods above") was performed in daylight, and under the public gaze. Deities of the upper heavens required white, infertile victims of their own sex: Juno a white heifer (possibly a white cow); Jupiter a white, castrated ox (bos mas) for the annual oath-taking by the consuls. Di superi with strong connections to the earth, such as Mars, Janus, Neptune and various genii – including the Emperor's – were offered fertile victims. After the sacrifice, a banquet was held; in state cults, the images of honoured deities took pride of place on banqueting couches and by means of the sacrificial fire consumed their proper portion (exta, the innards). Rome's officials and priests reclined in order of precedence alongside and ate the meat; lesser citizens may have had to provide their own."

Did they have only Jewish beliefs?

 

[RedTent]

Paul talks a lot about us, the gentiles, not having to do the physical obedience. But every one of the physical rituals God talks about has a spiritual meaning, and over and over Paul talks about obeying the spiritual side of those rituals, and even Christ did. We can obey spiritually without the physical rituals God used to teach the Hebrews. Christ scolded people for doing the physical and ignoring the spiritual teaching. He said don’t fast with a long face to impress men, that was not what the fasting was for. God said not to mix wool and linen. Another way to say it is to remember to be single minded for God, don’t mix things up. Each ritual God taught has a spiritual meaning.

When God said to keep the Sabbath, He would like us to do the earthly keeping, but it has a very profound meaning that spiritually goes very deep to our very being. That is what is important. We are human and carnal. What we do as humans does have a spiritual side.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Sacrifice to deities of the heavens (di superi, "gods above") was performed in daylight, and under the public gaze. Deities of the upper heavens required white, infertile victims of their own sex: Juno a white heifer (possibly a white cow); Jupiter a white, castrated ox (bos mas) for the annual oath-taking by the consuls. Di superi with strong connections to the earth, such as Mars, Janus, Neptune and various genii – including the Emperor's – were offered fertile victims. After the sacrifice, a banquet was held; in state cults, the images of honoured deities took pride of place on banqueting couches and by means of the sacrificial fire consumed their proper portion (exta, the innards). Rome's officials and priests reclined in order of precedence alongside and ate the meat; lesser citizens may have had to provide their own."

Did they have only Jewish beliefs?

This does not explain the day now does it?

What part of "do not judge a brother" do people not get??

 

[HEisgreaterthani]

This does not explain the day now does it?

What part of "do not judge a brother" do people not get??

Sun Day, Moon Day, Tuesday (Mars), Woden’s Day, Thor’s Day, Fria’s Day, Saturn’s Day, Ianuarius, Februarius, Martius, Aprilis, Maius, Iunius, Septem, Octo, Novem, Decem, Sumarsdag, Autumnus.

Didn't Rome persecute Christians and Jews?