RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?

shroom2 · Feb 24, 2012

You are correct. They teach it, it's just not on the chart.

I do. I hope you get something out of it.

Here's something to read:

Truth Or Tradition - 13 reasons why the Church cannot be the fulfillment of the New Covenant

God bless.

peacefulbeliever · Feb 25, 2012

AnandaHya said:

Context: Romans 6:4 -11

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this that our old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise (because of what has been said before) reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

"in the likeness of His death" - the old man being put off having been "crucified with Christ"; "in the likeness of his resurrection" - the new man being put on having "risen with Christ". Our baptism represents his death - "and as many as had been baptized unto Christ are reckoned as having been buried with Christ" and raised unto Christ - to "walk in newness of life". All who are baptized by the holy Spirit are identified by him in his death, burial and resurrection.

In Christ. . . . . .

Saul_Durian · Feb 25, 2012

I have been following along, and do doing so reading and re-reading on my own. I honestly see Pre-trib rapture as conjecture. And really not even very good conjecture. No offense to anyone who believes that. I might be wrong, I might be missing something. But as it stands, I don't see it. And it is odd that if it will happen is was not made more clear.

luciddream1982 · Feb 25, 2012

Saul_Durian said:

I concur....I just dont see it either. But I love my pre-trib brothers and sisters.

AnandaHya · Feb 25, 2012

luciddream1982 said:

yes. this is the point where we break for a potluck and ask how the family is doing

Graybeard · Feb 25, 2012

something we all agree........is that Jesus, is Lord!

peterT · Feb 25, 2012

Saul_Durian said:

No you are NOT wrong, and NO you have mist nothing Saul_Durian.

There is no pre-tribulation in the Bible nowhere.

God never ever said it.

The prophets never wrote it

And if it’s not in the bible, and it’s not the inspired word of God, then who’s word is it, that’s leading 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s of are brothers and sisters down the garden path ?

Saul_Durian · Feb 26, 2012

Graybeard said:

Apparently, you have not been reading the "Jesus is not god" thread lol

shroom2 · Feb 26, 2012

Saul_Durian said:

There is a difference between "Lord" and "God".

God, the Father, is God. Jesus is Lord.

peacefulbeliever · Feb 26, 2012

peterT said:

Not understanding the different administrations - Jews (bride of Christ) Age of Grace (body of Christ) Revelation (bride of Christ) is what makes people try to combine the administrations and therefore don't believe in the pre-trib because they are trying to apply an administration that is not applicable to them. We are in the administration of the Age of Grace - we are the body of Christ therefore Thessalonians is applicable to us and therefore, for the body of Christ, there will be a gathering together.

If this is comfort to you - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be - then comfort one another with these words.

I will stick to what God has planned for the body of Christ and comfort myself with that.

In Christ. . . . .

peterT · Feb 26, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

You will have to do better than that.

That statement is just a theory on how to interpret your theory. There’s not one bible verse in that.

Have you not read, O ye of little faith, how God has made of one blood all nations of men.

And have you not read, O ye of little faith, that he is NOT a Jew which is one outwardly, but HE IS a JEW which is one inwardly.

This is the Christian way, you get your Bible out, and you show verse upon verse, story upon story, chapter upon chapter, making a theory a truth.

There is no event in the Bible showing that Jesus comes before the tribulation

There is no event in the Bible that Jesus comes in the clouds before the tribulation

There is no event in the Bible showing Jesus comes at the last trumpet before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing the dead raised before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing that we meet Jesus in the air before the tribulation.

So you will have to do better than that, O ye of little faith.

shroom2 · Feb 26, 2012

peterT said:

You will have to do better than that.

That statement is just a theory on how to interpret your theory. There’s not one bible verse in that.

Have you not read, O ye of little faith, how God has made of one blood all nations of men.

And have you not read, O ye of little faith, that he is NOT a Jew which is one outwardly, but HE IS a JEW which is one inwardly.

This is the Christian way, you get your Bible out, and you show verse upon verse, story upon story, chapter upon chapter, making a theory a truth.

There is no event in the Bible showing that Jesus comes before the tribulation

There is no event in the Bible that Jesus comes in the clouds before the tribulation

There is no event in the Bible showing Jesus comes at the last trumpet before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing the dead raised before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing that we meet Jesus in the air before the tribulation.

So you will have to do better than that, O ye of little faith.

It's exactly as peacefulbeliever said. A person has to understand the administrations in scripture. It's apparent that you do not.

peacefulbeliever · Feb 26, 2012

peterT said:

You will have to do better than that.

That statement is just a theory on how to interpret your theory. There’s not one bible verse in that.

Have you not read, O ye of little faith, how God has made of one blood all nations of men.

And have you not read, O ye of little faith, that he is NOT a Jew which is one outwardly, but HE IS a JEW which is one inwardly.

This is the Christian way, you get your Bible out, and you show verse upon verse, story upon story, chapter upon chapter, making a theory a truth.

There is no event in the Bible showing that Jesus comes before the tribulation

There is no event in the Bible that Jesus comes in the clouds before the tribulation

There is no event in the Bible showing Jesus comes at the last trumpet before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing the dead raised before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible showing that we meet Jesus in the air before the tribulation.

So you will have to do better than that, O ye of little faith.

I don't consider the word of God as containing theories and I have presented what I believe is truth upon scripture, O ye of little faith.

He that hath ears to hear - let him hear - O ye of little faith.

But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

peterT · Feb 26, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

Your dreaming.
you did not quote any word of God, and if that’s not a lake of faith I don’t know what is.

peterT · Feb 26, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

It doesn’t matter what you think you believe, it’s what is written in the Bible that counts.

Your theories don’t count as the word of God, and to base your beliefs on a theory is not building your house upon a rock.

When the wind blows and the rains come your house will come tumbling down.

Theory will not help you, only the written word of God will, for Jesus in the rock and Jesus is the word.

There is no pre-tribulation coming/ rapture in the Bible.

For your own good, go back to the Bible and start a gene.

peacefulbeliever · Feb 26, 2012

peterT said:

I don't know when and how you became such an authority on other's faith.

There is no talking to you because you are full of your own self righteousness and pride - thinking that you are the only one who is has this tribulation thing down pat. I have studied the word of God for a long time now and pre-trib is written in God's word - its there for the body of Christ - written in the epistle to the Thessalonians.

Thanks.
In Christ. . . . . . .

AnandaHya · Feb 26, 2012

not that I believe in the rapture thing as is being presently taught. if scripture teaches that it happens at all I believe Bible teaches it happened in Jesus generation within the first century after all the books of the Bible had already been written

However, I wished people would post scripture. here is the one I've seen people use to support the rapture theology....

Revelation 3
7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,

‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”:[c] 8 “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it;[d] for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold,[e] I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

13 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Like I said I believe Jesus is reigning NOW with the first century saints who made up the 144, 000 but most people don't care to listen to that. they want to write themselves into the story and either envision themselves as a part of the 144,000 or clothed in white around the throne. its much easier to think they have an oracle from God in Revelation then to realize that we are currently in this phase of it:

Revelation 20
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection......

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.

oh but people look for an Earthly city just as they looked for a conquering Messiah...

AnandaHya · Feb 26, 2012

Revelation 20: 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city

oh but people look for an Earthly city just as they looked for a conquering Messiah...

read it in context, what city do you think it refers to?

I only find mention of THIS Holy city:

Revelation 21
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[h] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

AnandaHya · Feb 26, 2012

how annoying it won't let me edit....

Revelation 20: 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city

oh but people look for an Earthly city just as they looked for a conquering Messiah...that is why the cruxified Jesus. He refused to be their Earthly King

John 6:15
Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.

People get made if you don't let them make you into what they want to worship. Look how the crowd turn from wanting to worship Paul and Barnabas as Hermes and Zeus into beating and stoning them out of the city.

Acts 14
8 And in Lystra a certain man without strength in his feet was sitting, a cripple from his mother’s womb, who had never walked. 9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said with a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!” And he leaped and walked. 11 Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes.

14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out 15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, 16 who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways. 17 Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.” 18 And with these sayings they could scarcely restrain the multitudes from sacrificing to them.

19 Then Jews from Antioch and Iconium came there; and having persuaded the multitudes, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing him to be dead.

read Revelation 20 in context, what city do you think it refers to?

I only find mention of THIS Holy city:

Revelation 21
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[h] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

peterT · Feb 26, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

Where in God’s word is the pre-tribulation written ????????????
Or is that you just thinking and dreaming, that you have the tribulation thing down pat.

RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?

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