No my friend it is you who do not understand baptism. It is a transliteration, not a translation of a greek word, thus we must take the greek interpretation not the forced english interpretation.
This has nothing to do with water or spirit. What do you think, we ran to a dictionanry and looked up baptism? The Bible is clear, it means to dip, plunge, immerse, - the english def say it is a spirnkling i dont believe that nor do I use the ENG def, I didnt even bring them up so your just making a straw man argument, this has nothing to do with the context of when we find the word, and how it's used in scripture. And your already being inconsisent with what your saying I will show you below.
Baptism does not mean water. nor does iut have water anywhere in its definition. it means to be immersed or placed into something. It is a verb. When it says you are baptized into something, it literally means you were placed into that thing.
Yes, and when "immersion" is mentioned in the Bible it is understood as water unless their is something else specificcaaly mentioned that says otherwise. Because immersion in water, was commonly practiced by the Jews even before though they had different meanings.
Now what was JOhn's baptism, water? or Spirit?
your reading like your religious teaching has taught you, and not how a greek speaking person would have read and understood it.
No man I am reading whats plain. You are forced to fight against these passages because you must change the meaning of the passages to fit what you believe, instead of what you believe to fit the Bible.
Again, with your religious upbringing and placing the wrong defenition on a greek word.
Wow, now you know how I was brought up and you aks me of humility? You have no idea how I was brought up. Do you know that I had to study my way out of false doctrine, and get shunded my many who were close to me, because they teach what you do? You dont know so dont act like you know.
No I don't need to have water to be baptized. What water were the children of Isreal dunked into when they were baptized into moses? Non.
Were the Children of Israel under the NT? No. Can we sacrifice a bull? NO. Not a good argument, they had a different law system, the lived under. Yes they are saved by the blood of Christ, yes they get around batpism because they lived under a different law.
See, this is your problem, Your reading romans 6 from a religeous viewpoint based on what you have been taught.
Your reading Rom 6 and forcing a different baptism because you cannot believe in obedience. This is the whole root of your argument.
When romans 6 says I have been baptized into his death, It means I literally was baptised into his death. That such as when he died, I DIED WITH HIM. water can't do that. And a man dipping me in water can't immerse me into the death of Christ. Only God can.
I am sick of you saying water cant do that, man cant do that, are you saying if God commands something that a man must do, it is man that is doing the effect of what;s commanded and not God?
if the interpretors would have interpreted the greek word, instead of transliterating it, we would not be having this conversation. Man took a foreign word, and made a religious ceremony out of it. I was baptized into Christ by the HS. I later was baptized in water in abeyance of my saviors command.
If they did that, then the Bible would say "repent and be immersed". John would be john the immerser. So what, it wouldnt change what we were immersed in. The Bible tells us.
If it was your saviors command for you to be baptized, did you have to do it? what if you didnt want to?
The HS washed me (titus 3:5) not some paster who got me wet!
So how then John's baptism of repentance was not really God doing anything, but it was John's power that made that baptism unto repentance?
Why not. The apostles did. So did the gentiles in acts 10. So will we all, If you have not been baptized by the spirit as prophesied by john the baptist. your not saved. period!
When the HS spirit fell upon the Apostles in Acts 2, what was that?
Does that still happen to us today?
Why did Philip in Acts 8 need peter and John to come and lay hands on the Samaritans so they could receive the HS?
If we are baptized with HS, will we speak in tongues?
How is the different from the gift of HS in Acts 2:38?
yeah they can. And it still will not make them any more spiritually cloean then if a pastor baptised them in water and Got them wet.
Like I said, if you think a command of God is the command of men then you really need to study.
When a man leads us in a prayer, is he now become the our mediator?
If one takes the Lord's supper that men have prepared, they cannot really have communion with Chirst according to your belief? Right?
Can you be proud of being baptized? I know many people who are puffed up with the way, or who baptized them, or many other things about their baptism.
I have never seen anyone seem priduful, except in denominations, but I wont get into that.
Not of works lest ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST!, if we can take credit, it is a work of men and not a work of God.
Thats nuts man. Who commanded it? God or men?
No, it is water baptism. Acts 2 follows the command of Christ. Go make disciples (get men saved and born into the church) then baptize THEM.
Really? How do you know? I don't see "water" anywhere. Do you see "water"? This is how your being inconsistent. You say Rom 6 cannot be water, because you don't see "water". NOw you say acts 2 is what because they are following the command of Christ, yet no water.
And you just said water baptism was the "command of Christ", if so, how can it be a work or man? Your saying something that Christ commanded is something that a man does, so it is a work of man?
Adn he did not say (get men saved and born into the church then baptize them". You ought to be ashamed and scared to try and change God's word.
Matthew 28:19: ¶Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Hmmm, dont see your version in there, but I do see baptism in the name of the Father, Son, HS. In the name of meaning by the authority of. But since I dont see "water" it must be spirit, no i dont see spirit either, i guess it's fire, no wait no fire either, must be something unheard of.
If your not saved first. you get wet with no spiritual significants
Passage please?
Yeah I do remember. Yet you want to tell me it does remove the filth of the flesh and make us clean.
Right I want you to believe are skin is made clean. Comon man, you must have nothting if you go that low.
When Did I ever say baptism cleans the filth of the flesh?
Thus because of this, we are saved. I laugh every time I thinki that any man would think physical water can wash our spiritual soul, and removes the sins of our flesh.
I wont be funny one day bro, change that attitude while you can.
Acts 22:1
You did not prove anything but in your own head. Why are you boasting now. What happened to humility?
Did you not just say your laughing too?
You have no clue how the greek language works. 2nd person nouns can not be completed with a third person subject and vice versa.
wow, are you seriously going to act as if you are not wrong?
Look man, I will explian this please read it:
Repent is 2nd PLURAL ----it follows "THEM" which is plural
Baptized is 3rd SINGULAR because if follows -- -"Every one" which is a collective noun --it is a singualar noun.
2nd person plural -- "YOU" repent
3rd Person Sing -------"he/she,it" be baptized
You in the
plural means
all the group(you all),
everyone of you SING meaning all in the group
Baptism is Singualar because of the collective noun "every one of you" which is still refering to everyone in the plural group (them).
You all repent and each of you be baptized. This is not that hard man.
Dude this is not a theory this is the correct interpretation.
I don't tell everyone to repent, and then tell some of them to be baptized,
Does "everyone of you" imply some or all?
It's no different saying, "the couch said to the
team, drink, and
every one of you be refreshed"
If written in Greek the verbs would follow the nouns, drink would be Plural because team is plural,
Refreshed would singular because Every one of you is Singular.
"It" is third Person singular because it 3rd persons means he/she/it, when referring to a groupe you would use third person "it". it is the group, the same group it never changes.
and say they ALL will get the gift of the spirit if this takes place. it makes no sense.
NO it does not make sense when you think "everyone of you" means "some"!
Man look it up, your wrong here. I am trying to show you, find a Greek teacher and ask them if you wont believe me. I am not trying to show you antohter way of looking at it, but the correct interpretation.
Im sure you heard this from some faith only preacher who can can even think could be wrong, but he is and so are you. Not to mention the foolishness of what your trying to force it to mean. Two groups? That is crazy.
I have taken Greek(still learning though). And anyone who understands basic Greek can understand what I am saying. You don't believe me because you don't understand what I am saying. I don't think your being dishonest, I think you really just don't get what I am saying.
This in an invalid argument it has been since you have brought it up.
If baptism was essentiaol. I would say All of you repent and be baptized. i would use the same "person" type for both verbs.
No you wouldn't, if you were to write it correctly. You wouldn't use the same person if you threw in a collective noun, that described a group of people,. You would use 3rd person Singular form, if you were correct, as Luke was in writing the form he did.
it is you who rejects to agree with the types of verbs and nouns used. Like the pharisee you refuse to admit your hard work will have nothing to do with your salvation.
I am just repeating what the Bible says, your the one who is fighting face value. In fact why we even discussing Greek, because you attempted to make what is easily understood mean something else. Characteristic of the Pharisees.
so we are saved by works, and not faith. Thanks for telling me this.
Straw man again. Never said we are not saved by faith. Weve been down this road, you start contradicting yourself and then you leave for a while hoping more posts will come so no sees your contraindication, then you come back, do the same, and it never ends. So do you really want to go there again?
For by grace we have been saved by earning salvation through faith (and works), it is not a gift of God, we all should obey him and do these works so we can boast.
Paul got it wrong!
lol, yea, right, straw man. obedience is not a work. Paul is not telling us we dont have to obey.
1st off. Coming on or in you is not baptize, it is anoint, again your language skills are missing, Your trying to make a religios defenition to a literal word. . Jesus was anointed by God when the HS descended on him as a dove. He was not baptised.
What? "trying to make a religious definitions out of a literal word?" Don't all definitions, religious and non religious come from a literal word?
Umm, he was coming "up out of the water" when this happened. How was he not baptized? It's interesting God chose that moment to bear witness to him, and give the HS.
But since it was John who baptized him, I guess it was all John's doing according your belief.
]Baptise means we are placed into something, not that something is placed in us.
Yea we are placed in the death of Christ, a burial, symbolized by our immersion in water. Then we are added to his church - Acts 2:47.
Look at the OT preisthood. The were washed in water (baptised) then they were annointed with the oil.
this is symbolic at what happens with us. We are baptized by God the HS (washed (titus 3:5) and then annointed as the holy spirit is poured out on us.
you need to study more!
Dude dont you get it? they were washed with water (symbol of baptism) and anootied with oil (symbol of the HS). You are refusing to be washed in order to receive the oil, you want to be washed and be oiled at the same time. You need to study more.