WHY the "TEA PARTY" is UNCHRISTIAN

[Nautilus]

You don't seem to realize why they raised the debt ceiling. It's called "Cause and effect". There's something you should learn about. However, I really must counter your ridiculous claim about the president writing the budget. The president writes a budget PROPOSAL, not 'the budget'. You really should take a political science class.

Hilariously I took four years f political science classes jokes on you. And yet everyone refers to it as the presidents budget...its a phrase. get over it. And yes the debt ceiling has constantly been raised since its induction.



The United States debt-ceiling crisis was a financial crisis in 2011 that started as a debate in the United States Congress about increasing the debt ceiling. The crisis ended when a complex deal was reached that raised the debt ceiling and reduced proposed increases to future government spending, although similar debates are possible for future budgets.[1] As part of the aftermath, the crisis had a major political impact in the United States, in which public support for Congress, and especially congressional Republicans, plummeted.[2]
President Barack Obama and Speaker of the House John Boehner announced on July 31 that an agreement had been achieved. After the legislation was passed by both the House and Senate, President Obama signed the Budget Control Act of 2011 into law on August 2, the date estimated by the Department of the Treasury that the borrowing authority of the US would be exhausted.


I mean clearly I wont get it through your head that Obama isn't the pro-muslim, Jesus-hating socialist half of you people believe he is, but then I'll just be content in the knowledge that knowing this, most of you are probably less educated as is common among the majority of Republican supporters. So enjoy your tea parties and Obama bashing. I'm sure a conservative would do a much better job, you're right. Logic is leaving our political systems thanks to Neo-cons and tea partiers but keep supporting it, before you know we will be hanging atheists and teaching nothing but abstinence and creationism if you had your way.

And its not because im not a christian, i am, but i recognize a need to be more open-minded to a country of differences and not force everything to fit in a perfect little box.

 

[JimJimmers]

Hilariously I took four years f political science classes

You're right, that is hilarious. As far as your claim of "It's a phrase, get over it", you didn't use that phrase, you said he wrote the budget, which is a fabrication. Next time try hitting edit before it expires, or better yet proofread. It would help with all the typos that make your posts sound unintelligent as well.


I'm going to ignore the stuff you copied from Wikipedia.

We do agree on the debt ceiling being constantly raised since its induction, I never said otherwise, and have been for a smaller Federal Government since way before Obama came on the scene.

I mean clearly I wont get it through your head that Obama isn't the pro-muslim, Jesus-hating socialist half of you people believe he is, but then I'll just be content in the knowledge that knowing this, most of you are probably less educated as is common among the majority of Republican supporters. So enjoy your tea parties and Obama bashing. I'm sure a conservative would do a much better job, you're right. Logic is leaving our political systems thanks to Neo-cons and tea partiers but keep supporting it, before you know we will be hanging atheists and teaching nothing but abstinence and creationism if you had your way.

And its not because im not a christian, i am, but i recognize a need to be more open-minded to a country of differences and not force everything to fit in a perfect little box.

I already said I blamed both parties, I was merely pointing out how your bias isn't helping fix the debt crisis. I am not a Republican or a Tea Party member. I follow Jesus. Maybe you weren't talking to me, but I was quoted, so I'm responding. Well, that's it for me, I'm outta here. There are many Bible verses about not wasting your time arguing with unlearned people. There is much good work to be done on the site.

 

[Hurricane1]

ok people, lets have a lesson in politics.

president writes a proposed budget.

house and senate also does this.

also with any bill.

1 the house proposes and votes on a bill. the bill then goes to the senate, if they reject the bill, the house must start over. or the senate can write their own bill to counter the house bill

once it passes the senate, the president must vote to agree with the bill, or veto the bill.

a few questions. Can anyone show what replublican based budget bill was approved and instituted since obama? the answer is zero.

the republican house has zero power. Proven by the fact none of their bills have passed unless they comprimise to make democrates in the senate happy. and by the fact the house has rescinded the health care law how many times now? to no accord. because they can not get it passed the democrat controlled senate.

what is the result? the house republican have NO POWER to do anything as long as the senate is controlled by the dems. All they have is a showing as to what bills the right, and bills they fight against. but no power whatsoever!

some people buy into the propoganda they hear in the liberal news, and it is plain sickening.

This, of course, is true. Couple that with the statistics that are being put forth, if true, the decline is spending is because the House is refusing to fund the Presidents budget proposal, that with the fact that the helth care law has not actually been fully implemented yet.

 

[Nautilus]

Or perhaps people realize the liberal is the proper way to go instead of conservative which denies equal rights and refuses to take care of the less fortunate even in their own country. I mean really, Jesus certainly had more in common with liberals than conservatives anyways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Or perhaps people realize the liberal is the proper way to go instead of conservative which denies equal rights and refuses to take care of the less fortunate even in their own country. I mean really, Jesus certainly had more in common with liberals than conservatives anyways.

In other words, your a communist. because that is the defenition you just put forth is socialsim. It failed in Germany, and failed in the USSR, why do you think it will somehow work over here??

Take care of less fortunate? Democracy stands on the principle that we all have the ability to make our own bed. Yes some are unfortunate, and yes we should help them. Even the right believes this.

But why punish people who have made it. and make them pay for the lazy people who do not want to work? which is 90 percent of the so called "less fortunate"

and what Got us here in the first place? Greed and liberal policies. The collapse of the economy a few years ago on the banks and housing markets happened because liberals instituted policies which were doomed to fail. why? Because they wanted everyone to have a house. so lets give people lones who can not afford them. the end result. foreclosures by the hundreds, and banks which were screwed by other banks which suffered much loss. Not to mention the stock market fiasko!

Stop believing in your liberal college who taught you a bunch of lies, and start looking at reality.

 

[Dude653]

Dude. All government IS evil because sinful man can not handle power...therefore as the American founding fathers recognised it is vital to limit government. The smaller the government the better the prospects for freedom and the more freedom the better for the prospects for the spread of the Gospel.

All government is evil?? So what would you have us do? Are we to abandon all government, have total anarchy, have no law to protect the innocent? That would be oput of order. God is not about disorder

 

[Nautilus]

In other words, your a communist. because that is the defenition you just put forth is socialsim. It failed in Germany, and failed in the USSR, why do you think it will somehow work over here??

Take care of less fortunate? Democracy stands on the principle that we all have the ability to make our own bed. Yes some are unfortunate, and yes we should help them. Even the right believes this.

But why punish people who have made it. and make them pay for the lazy people who do not want to work? which is 90 percent of the so called "less fortunate"

and what Got us here in the first place? Greed and liberal policies. The collapse of the economy a few years ago on the banks and housing markets happened because liberals instituted policies which were doomed to fail. why? Because they wanted everyone to have a house. so lets give people lones who can not afford them. the end result. foreclosures by the hundreds, and banks which were screwed by other banks which suffered much loss. Not to mention the stock market fiasko!

Stop believing in your liberal college who taught you a bunch of lies, and start looking at reality.

You're right I should just hoard money to the point where I will have more than any average person needs to spend in a lifetime and blow it on frivolous luxury items such as yachts and foreign vacation homes while ignoring the high percentages of unemployed homeless in our country because well its not my problem. Oh and lets not forget finding every tax loophole imaginable so I can keep all of my money and not pay it back to anyone. I mean this is certainly the Christian way to do things. Also I need to spend some money to finance the destruction at any attempt of providing equal rights whether they be access to healthcare for everyone or marriage rights to people im supposed to hate. No wonder this is such a great country... oh wait there’s absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we’re the greatest country in the world. We’re 7th in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, 3rd in median household income, Number 4 in labor force and Number 4 in exports, we lead the world in only three categories: Number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending where spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies. So yeah I guess this whole conservative let people fall where they may approach has worked great.

 

[Spartacus1122]

Robin Hood politics never worked. Never will.

 

[systemdown101]

You're right I should just hoard money to the point where I will have more than any average person needs to spend in a lifetime and blow it on frivolous luxury items such as yachts and foreign vacation homes while ignoring the high percentages of unemployed homeless in our country because well its not my problem. Oh and lets not forget finding every tax loophole imaginable so I can keep all of my money and not pay it back to anyone.

Greed can easily be defined as hoarding your own money and not putting it to good use. It can ALSO easily be defined as lusting after the money other people have, then taking it from them to spend on your own purposes.

Yeshua stands apart from political definitions, so I would be very careful saying He would be a liberal. Were one to follow your logic, one could also say He is for unlimited taxpayer-funded abortions, gay marriages, race quotas, that the government has the right to take your property away, and that there is no place for Christianity in government affairs.

 

[Hurricane1]

Or perhaps people realize the liberal is the proper way to go instead of conservative which denies equal rights and refuses to take care of the less fortunate even in their own country. I mean really, Jesus certainly had more in common with liberals than conservatives anyways.

Actually, He didn't. He wanted the Church to take care of people, not a centralized government.

 

[meecha]

You're right I should just hoard money to the point where I will have more than any average person needs to spend in a lifetime and blow it on frivolous luxury items such as yachts and foreign vacation homes while ignoring the high percentages of unemployed homeless in our country because well its not my problem. Oh and lets not forget finding every tax loophole imaginable so I can keep all of my money and not pay it back to anyone. I mean this is certainly the Christian way to do things. Also I need to spend some money to finance the destruction at any attempt of providing equal rights whether they be access to healthcare for everyone or marriage rights to people im supposed to hate. No wonder this is such a great country... oh wait there’s absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we’re the greatest country in the world. We’re 7th in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, 3rd in median household income, Number 4 in labor force and Number 4 in exports, we lead the world in only three categories: Number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending where spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies. So yeah I guess this whole conservative let people fall where they may approach has worked great.

Nautilus, do you believe that the govenment has the right to take from Mr nasty rich guy and give it to the the homeless single mother? It sounds like a no brainer I know but the Bible says that the government does not have that right. There is no salvation in government. Salvation is in Christ through the gospel. The effects of the gospel will redistribute wealth better than any government program but neither liberals or neo cons believe it. The Bible says the government can tax the people to punish evil doers but not to redistribute wealth. Jesus says the poor are always with us...so we are always able to help a poor person and Mr Nasty rich guy is no excuse for us.

 

[meecha]

All government is evil?? So what would you have us do? Are we to abandon all government, have total anarchy, have no law to protect the innocent? That would be oput of order. God is not about disorder

Dude ...you quoted me but you didn't read my post. I never said we are to abandon all government ....I said we must limit government so as government is a servant and not a master.

 

[lesjude]

Hitler also claimewith you about the American revolution. I believe that tyranny should be fought to free people. You are not worthy of the blood that was spilled to secure the freedom you now enjoy. In Brittain right now, there is a full on suppression of Christianity. Should we have submitted to that if we didn't have to?d to be a Christian. Should we have left him in power?

Give me scripture for what you believe please. What did Christians do in the early church when persecuted to the death? What did Paul tell Christians to do for the Roman leaders that were killing Christians by the thousands?
Hitler's rise to power could have been stopped by the believers in Germany and elsewhere through prayer/intercession. They supported him as did many in the US all through the war while making millions selling him the things he needed to wage the war!

I disagree What of all the people who have heard the Gospel because the United States is in existence?
How would they have heard except for the ministries coming from this country? Is that evil because the US was formed in rebellion?

God will use what He did not start and bless what He will not inhabit. EVERYTHING that he will not inhabit will burn including the rebellious nations. The "good" the US does does not balance out the evil. That is NEVER taught in the Bible.

I also disagree with you about "pastoral authority". Do some research on where the traditions of our churches come from. Almost exclusively, they came from paganism. Read "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola. You will be blown away by what our, so called, churches do today. The true Church isn't a building, program, denomination, or some pastors private little kingdom. The Church is the flesh and blood "Bride of Christ". The Church in the first century (before greedy men got involved) was fully participatory (not meaning doing what the pastor wants, but bringing a word to the rest of the Church and participating in every gathering), not a bunch of people sitting in a pew to listen to a preacher convincing/ demanding everybody to do it his way. And the people of the church who had too much gave to those that didn't have enough, not pay tithes to fatten pastors and build their little kingdoms to compete with other pastors little kingdoms. If we are in the Lord, we are all one. We are to take care of one another and live in community as the "Body of Christ".

I have read his book. We have a home fellowship and have never been in anything else since salvation. Do you celebrate Xmas and Easter because they are pagan holidays.The Bible speaks of local assemblies functioning under Ephesians 4:11-16 leadership, not some universal "church" as the RCC claims.

 

[JaumeJ]

In other words, your a communist. because that is the defenition you just put forth is socialsim. It failed in Germany, and failed in the USSR, why do you think it will somehow work over here??

Take care of less fortunate? Democracy stands on the principle that we all have the ability to make our own bed. Yes some are unfortunate, and yes we should help them. Even the right believes this.

But why punish people who have made it. and make them pay for the lazy people who do not want to work? which is 90 percent of the so called "less fortunate"

and what Got us here in the first place? Greed and liberal policies. The collapse of the economy a few years ago on the banks and housing markets happened because liberals instituted policies which were doomed to fail. why? Because they wanted everyone to have a house. so lets give people lones who can not afford them. the end result. foreclosures by the hundreds, and banks which were screwed by other banks which suffered much loss. Not to mention the stock market fiasko!

Stop believing in your liberal college who taught you a bunch of lies, and start looking at reality.

When any assembly speaks out against helping the helpless, the homeless, the jobless, and the ill, that assembly may count me out. My first home was an army tent. Later my parents lot improved and we graduated to a house trailer, seven of us with two beds, five in one bed. I have actually fainted from poor nutrition, all of this amidst the good economy (except for one minor recession) of the 50's. Never did my family go on food stamps. Never did any receive any kind of special financial aid. There were others worse off than we, and it is only proper for any society, especially one calling itself Christian, to care for the disadvantaged in good times and in bad times. I would not collect unemployment, and once, forced on to a form of welfare, I "jumped" welfare in order not to be on it, collecting 0. Those who are truly in need deserve all the help a loving society is able to afford. Anyone who is against this thought is pro-enemy...........this is not political, it is love.

 

[tribesman]

...Take care of less fortunate? Democracy stands on the principle that we all have the ability to make our own bed. Yes some are unfortunate, and yes we should help them. Even the right believes this.

But why punish people who have made it. and make them pay for the lazy people who do not want to work? which is 90 percent of the so called "less fortunate"...

Do you have any proven statistics over these figures? Poverty in a world wide perspective is not much about laziness (although some of it is, of course) but its actually found among working people who labor extremely hard for extremely low wages and therefore live under more or less miserable conditions. Needless to say it's even worse for those who have no job/income. It cannot be "communist" to be of the view that the fruits of the profit should be subsidized to a better degree to those who help create them than what it is in many cases.

 

[JaumeJ]

In other words, your a communist. because that is the defenition you just put forth is socialsim. It failed in Germany, and failed in the USSR, why do you think it will somehow work over here??

Take care of less fortunate? Democracy stands on the principle that we all have the ability to make our own bed. Yes some are unfortunate, and yes we should help them. Even the right believes this.

But why punish people who have made it. and make them pay for the lazy people who do not want to work? which is 90 percent of the so called "less fortunate"

and what Got us here in the first place? Greed and liberal policies. The collapse of the economy a few years ago on the banks and housing markets happened because liberals instituted policies which were doomed to fail. why? Because they wanted everyone to have a house. so lets give people lones who can not afford them. the end result. foreclosures by the hundreds, and banks which were screwed by other banks which suffered much loss. Not to mention the stock market fiasko!

Stop believing in your liberal college who taught you a bunch of lies, and start looking at reality.

In my tax paying life, it has never occurred to me that because I have employment and pay taxes those who cannot should starve. I want my tax dollars to go for HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND HOUSING. There will always be wicked abusers of any system, look at the banking system. But because I love Yeshua, Jesus, my heart's desire is to help these poor. YHWH, Himself, stresses throughout the Word to aid the widow, the orphan, and the sojourner. There are many kinds of widows, there are many kinds of orphans, and there are many kinds of sojourners. Beware of what you teach and preach because YWHW, God, hates anyone who abuses these people. If this sounds political, I pity your hearing. The One Who sits at the Right Hand of Power taught us all of this.

 

[meecha]

Do you have any proven statistics over these figures? Poverty in a world wide perspective is not much about laziness (although some of it is, of course) but its actually found among working people who labor extremely hard for extremely low wages and therefore live under more or less miserable conditions. Needless to say it's even worse for those who have no job/income. It cannot be "communist" to be of the view that the fruits of the profit should be subsidized to a better degree to those who help create them than what it is in many cases.

I agree Tribesman that the 90% figure is excessive but government welfare has become a hinderance to growth and prosperity. It is also a major problem for the Christian Church in the west. If the government supplies our every need who needs God?

So God is relegated to the "spiritual" and the gospel has no power to change the world. Bureaucracy increases and product decreases. I believe the free market creates prosperity and the best conditions for the gospel to spread. If Christians paid their tithes the Church could do health welfare and education way better than the state and practically be that light on the hill. I don't agree with Jaume...I don't want my dollars going to the government....I want them going to the Church.

Someone has estimated that if the Southern Baptists pulled their kids out of state education the whole thing would collapse...I think that would be wonderful...people would need to address their own education and you would see pagans flocking to the Church for answers. Anything that the government controls ( and education is a prime example) is subject to corruption because bureaucrats ( ie parasites) gain control over the product rather than demand controlling the product.

 

[JaumeJ]

I agree Tribesman that the 90% figure is excessive but government welfare has become a hinderance to growth and prosperity. It is also a major problem for the Christian Church in the west. If the government supplies our every need who needs God?

So God is relegated to the "spiritual" and the gospel has no power to change the world. Bureaucracy increases and product decreases. I believe the free market creates prosperity and the best conditions for the gospel to spread. If Christians paid their tithes the Church could do health welfare and education way better than the state and practically be that light on the hill. I don't agree with Jaume...I don't want my dollars going to the government....I want them going to the Church.

Someone has estimated that if the Southern Baptists pulled their kids out of state education the whole thing would collapse...I think that would be wonderful...people would need to address their own education and you would see pagans flocking to the Church for answers. Anything that the government controls ( and education is a prime example) is subject to corruption because bureaucrats ( ie parasites) gain control over the product rather than demand controlling the product.

No one has stated your money cannot go to YOUR church, but we all pay taxes, even those who do not work pay taxes, did you know that? I want my tax dollars to go toward health, education and housing for everyone. This worked during the good times. The memory or education of many in this forum shows when they are not aware of this fact. People progressed for decades after WWII while taking care of those who were unable to care for themselves. It does not work now because there is no diligence in weeding out the abusers as much as possible, those who abuse the system, and those who abuse access to wealth. The bottom line here is not a political aim, it is the desire to help those who cannot help themselves...........please focus on that bottom line, it is pleasing to YHWH, God.

 

[pickles]

No one has stated your money cannot go to YOUR church, but we all pay taxes, even those who do not work pay taxes, did you know that? I want my tax dollars to go toward health, education and housing for everyone. This worked during the good times. The memory or education of many in this forum shows when they are not aware of this fact. People progressed for decades after WWII while taking care of those who were unable to care for themselves. It does not work now because there is no diligence in weeding out the abusers as much as possible, those who abuse the system, and those who abuse access to wealth. The bottom line here is not a political aim, it is the desire to help those who cannot help themselves...........please focus on that bottom line, it is pleasing to YHWH, God.

Im gonna have to speak about this jaume.
The thing is, when the system was first put in place, this was a nation that in goerment and people, most were christians.
Now we have a goverment that seeks to eleminate God, and makes it practically impossible to run or supposr christain based charities.
If obama care goes through in its entirty, almost all faith based programsa will have to close their doors because of some of the criteria in this medical package.
Simply because they will be prosicuted for standing firm in belief and faith against certain aspects of the laws within.
Did you know that any person who cannot pay the so called,fee- tax, will be prosicuted by the irs, suffering garnished wages, properties siezed, and jail time.
All here Im sure will agree that we in Jesus, are to look out for those less fortunate.
But the goverment should not be the ones to do this.
In the times you refur to, most needs were not met by the goverment, but by people, who took this responcibuility seriously.
The goverment today has levied so many requirements on charities that charities can no longer funtion effectively.
And much of the propaganda being used on all of us is untrue.
I know many who belong to the tea party, and they are not radical , terrorists who are trying to force their own agenda.
They simply believe that goverment has become too powerful and this goverment is forcing and buying votes with 'gifts' promises of equal care.
I can garrentee you this will not be the case.
In fact this medical package is designed to allow many to be triaged to death.
I know because if this package goes though there are those I know who will no longer get the kind of care they need to live.
My mother died , simply because madicaid refused to pay for her medication, sighting it was not nessasary to prolong her life.
She died within the year.
But that is the goverment we have, and I do not look to goverment.
I look always to Jesus and what we each are called to do.

I believe the needs of others should be provided, not by a goverment which is not faith based, but by me and you and each according to what they are able.
This is the calling of every child of God, to serve each other in the faith, hope and love we are called to
in Jesus.

No, I am not a tea partyer person myself, but there has been much said and done to demonise them.
And yes like any other group there are always those who act unreasonably.
Just as the wealthy are considered selfish cold hearted greedy and users.
I have known many wealthy in my life, and so far all have been caring, unselfish, and generous beyond a fault.
And many I have known keep no record of the gifts they give or works they do, simply because they do so, not for recognition, but because the need is there.
What is sad about this thread and others like it, is that it passes judgement on the whole.
When many are good and caring people.

Give the goverment the taxes it asks, just as Jesus said give unto ceasor his due.
But do not expect or ask the goverment to do what we as christians are asked to do.
For any work that is not based in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh, is doomed to fail.
We as christians ourselves struggle to keep all we are asked to do, in the truth and good.
We as christains are not called to assign the tasks of faith, but to do these works of faith ourselves.

Anyway, sorry I stood on the soapbox for so long, but the generalised judgements, or saying that it is the goverments job, is getting to be a tired argument.

WE need to think in what I can do in Jesus.
And know that in every position and place of life there are good or bad, and stop judgeing the whole simply because of that place they are in.

In Jesus, God bless
pickles

 

[JaumeJ]

Im gonna have to speak about this jaume.
The thing is, when the system was first put in place, this was a nation that in goerment and people, most were christians.
Now we have a goverment that seeks to eleminate God, and makes it practically impossible to run or supposr christain based charities.
If obama care goes through in its entirty, almost all faith based programsa will have to close their doors because of some of the criteria in this medical package.
Simply because they will be prosicuted for standing firm in belief and faith against certain aspects of the laws within.
Did you know that any person who cannot pay the so called,fee- tax, will be prosicuted by the irs, suffering garnished wages, properties siezed, and jail time.
All here Im sure will agree that we in Jesus, are to look out for those less fortunate.
But the goverment should not be the ones to do this.
In the times you refur to, most needs were not met by the goverment, but by people, who took this responcibuility seriously.
The goverment today has levied so many requirements on charities that charities can no longer funtion effectively.
And much of the propaganda being used on all of us is untrue.
I know many who belong to the tea party, and they are not radical , terrorists who are trying to force their own agenda.
They simply believe that goverment has become too powerful and this goverment is forcing and buying votes with 'gifts' promises of equal care.
I can garrentee you this will not be the case.
In fact this medical package is designed to allow many to be triaged to death.
I know because if this package goes though there are those I know who will no longer get the kind of care they need to live.
My mother died , simply because madicaid refused to pay for her medication, sighting it was not nessasary to prolong her life.
She died within the year.
But that is the goverment we have, and I do not look to goverment.
I look always to Jesus and what we each are called to do.

I believe the needs of others should be provided, not by a goverment which is not faith based, but by me and you and each according to what they are able.
This is the calling of every child of God, to serve each other in the faith, hope and love we are called to
in Jesus.

No, I am not a tea partyer person myself, but there has been much said and done to demonise them.
And yes like any other group there are always those who act unreasonably.
Just as the wealthy are considered selfish cold hearted greedy and users.
I have known many wealthy in my life, and so far all have been caring, unselfish, and generous beyond a fault.
And many I have known keep no record of the gifts they give or works they do, simply because they do so, not for recognition, but because the need is there.
What is sad about this thread and others like it, is that it passes judgement on the whole.
When many are good and caring people.

Give the goverment the taxes it asks, just as Jesus said give unto ceasor his due.
But do not expect or ask the goverment to do what we as christians are asked to do.
For any work that is not based in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh, is doomed to fail.
We as christians ourselves struggle to keep all we are asked to do, in the truth and good.
We as christains are not called to assign the tasks of faith, but to do these works of faith ourselves.

Anyway, sorry I stood on the soapbox for so long, but the generalised judgements, or saying that it is the goverments job, is getting to be a tired argument.

WE need to think in what I can do in Jesus.
And know that in every position and place of life there are good or bad, and stop judgeing the whole simply because of that place they are in.

In Jesus, God bless
pickles

The colonies were just that, colonies of England. When the people of the revolution declared the independence of the colonies, the people were tired of being oppressed because of their own religion, their non-religion or the oppressive measures of religions of others. The Constitution of the United States guarantees the freedom of religion, and this includes for atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, all. It also guarantees freedom from religious oppressors. The founding fathers were made up of various religions, mostly Protestant denominations. There was representation also of Jews and a lot of Free Masons. If you look at the design of the dollar bill, you will discover many symbols of the Masons and of Jews. It was designed by a Jew. What began to occur with Madeleine Murray, later Brown added, was a lay attack on all religions which in itself is a religion against religions, and this should have been stopped immediately because it is no more or less than imposing religious thinking on others. You may blame the intellectuals of the US government and others for this occurring. As far as my post is concerned, all I ask is that people help people, preferably in the name of our Lord, Yeshua. That is a smattering of my knowledge of US history which, incidentally, should not be confused in any manner with the Kingdom of God or anything like that. Freedom of religion is the most precious gift to my generation and before me, unhappily those Murrys and those religious zealots at the other extreme have destroyed the America I grew up in. They cannot destroy my faith in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, for with Him there is but one nation. I realize most people in the forum are not quite certain what nation that is, but I am. Praise the Holy King, amen.