Can Salvation be lost??

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

Again, written to Christian ABOUT those who deny the Father. NOT written TO them directly. It is the smame as in Jame, it is an example and warning. "AS FOR YOU" shows they are not them who never were of them. Those are being spoken about, as well as their sins, not being written to. That is easy enough to comprehend just by reading the book.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

The argument here is not about the antiChrist's and if they were ever saved. No doubt they were not. The argument here is from Gal, in which Paul tells the Christians there, who were "bewitched" (fooled by false teachers) into believing they had to keep circumsion (and maybe other things from the law) in order to be a Christian. This would put them back into the bondage they were freed from. This also (if they continued in the false doctrine) would cause them to fall from grace, and Christ (who once freed them) would BECOME of no effect upon them as indivduals.

Keeping the law of Moses was a sin for the Gal (and modern 7th day adventists) and for any of us to do so. This sin causes us to go back into bondage, in which we are not freed from sin - Jn 8:32 because that is only done through Christ.

It does not mean they were never saved, if they heeded Paul's warning in Gal, then they would have turned from this false doctrine, and remained in the grace of God, and not have fallen. If they did not listen, and continued in the false doctrine the would have fallen FROM grace.

This is the argument, this is what the book says, I encourage one to read from chapter 1 to 6 and notice their is no change in subjects. This is all to Christians about false teachers who would cause them to fall short in the Christian journey. Anyone who says otherwise, is part of the false teachers, if they will not hear what the book says.

No different from Diotrephes, who loved to have the preeminnce and prevented the chruch from hearing the Apostles.

III Jn:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2012

feedm3 said:

My test was finsihed, and I had to clean up the stuff which was set up for the test. And I got to thinking.

Does anyone else see the irony of these last few statements?

These people use this passage to prove to those in the church that you must add works to salvation, or you will lose it. It is their highest achievment passage which they use And they will always claim this passage PROVES US WRONG. And in doing so, they have to understand James is talking to PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH, Not false teachers outside the church. or else their whole argument fails.

2. Now, he is stating this passage is NOT written to saved people in the church, But to false teachers outside the church, who do not even belong to the church.

do you see what happens when you open your eyes and seek truth, those who are believing and teaching in a lie will ALWAYS fall in some way or another, and when this happens, they are exposed. The thing we ALL must hope for (as happened to me, as I use to believe in many of these legalistic values) is that they also see the flaw, and contradictions they are making themselves. and fall out of the trap of legalism.

it is what Got me to question many things I have been taught, I would see inconsistancies. or things which contradicted itself. Things like this.

Anyway, time for me to return to the shop and head home, will continue this later if it needs continuing.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

And here we go, strawman number 2. Adding works to salavtion, is this OSAS or works? Why are you trying to change the subject here? Lol OBVISOUS

NOT ONE PASSAGE BUT MANY. AS YOU HAVE SEEN AND WHY YOUR ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT.

OF COURSE JAMES IS SPEAKING TO THE CHURCH READ THE FIRST VERSE. AND PAUL N GAL, ROM, HEB..ETC.

HE IS WARING THEM ABOUT FALSE TEACHERS LIKE YOU. IF FACT JAMES JUST SHUT DOWN YOU WHOLE WORKS THING, THANKS FOR THROWING THAT IN THERE. I KNOW HE SAID ONE WHO HAS "NO" WORKS AS IN ZERO, THAT ONLY APPLIES TO.

WHATTTTTT? LOLOLOLOLOLOL THATS YOU MAN NOT ME. GET YOUR POSTION RIGHT. YOUR THE ONE WHO BELIEVES IT WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE CHURCH!

THAT'S WHY YOU BROUGHT IT UP. LOL DO YOU REALLY FEEL YOU ARE THAT SLICK? YOU THINK YOU CAN JUST CHANGE TO MY POSTION AND EVERYONE WILL FALL FOR IT? GIVE THESE FOLKS SOME CREDIT AND STOP TRYING TO BE SLICK...LOL YOUR NOT

LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOL YOU ARE NOW IN THE HALL OF SHAME. I HAVE NEVER SERIOUSLY SEEN ONE GET PROVED WRONG AND JUST SIMPLY SWITCH THEIR VIEW, AND ACT AS IF THEY WERE THE ONES ARGUING AGAINT THEIR OWN TEACHINGS. LOL WOW ARE YOU SERIOUS? MAN DO YOU HATE BEING WRONG THAT BAD YOU WILL GO THIS LENGTH, DO YOU WANT ME TO POST ALL THE TIMES YOU JUST SAID THISE WERE NOT WRIITEN TO THE ONLY THE CHURCH BUT ALSO TO FALSE TEACHERS? WOW LOL PLEASE STOP NOW, YOUR CRACKING ME UP SO BAD.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

LOLOL EG SEES INCONSISTENTCIES AND CONTRADICTIONS WHAT A SHOW BOAT MAN. LOL I HAVE CAUGHT HIM IN MORE INCONSISTENCIES AND CONTRADICTIONS THEN I CAN COUNT.

SO WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT NOW? WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU SAYING SO WE CAN BE CLEAR?

Who is Paul writing to in Gal? Please use BCV to show me, not your prob and maybe statements.

Then we can continue, after you chased rabbits all the way to James and and John just to show you dont get them. Now lets go back to all the inconsenseties you teach one book at a time

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2012

feedm3 said:

who is changing the subject? the subject is can one lose salvation is it not? You keep calling things strawmen when they are not. this true shows your true character.

No, many taken out of context. As I just proves you do with this one, yet you can;t see it, or refuse to which ever one it is.

So when Paul tells them to search themselves to see if the spirit of God is in them, he is NOt telling them they might not be saved? How ironic. I see yet again you fefuse to acknowledge this passage, all your doing is hurting your own cause in doing this.

yep. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID< AND YOU KEEP CALLINGF ME A LIAR! so which is it? am I a liar, or am I telling the truth, The comment you just made makes me tell the truth, because it is WHAT I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG. should we go back and see where you have claimed I lied when I stated this as fact?

No, Your not the one who understands it was written, and read to all people who were assembling themselves in the church. Neither Paul, or peter, nor john or anyone else could know EVERYONE that would read, or have these letter read to them were saved. They would be fools to think this. the mere fact you think otherwise speaks volumes as to your true intentions.

1. Is there a reason you are yelling? Am I getting to you? I hope so. because the truth will set you free so you do not have to get angry so much.

2. Your stuck in a rut. You claim James is only talking to people in the church who is saved, Yet James speaks directly to people who claim to have faith, even calling them fools if they think faith without works (mere belief) will get them anywhere. So if he is talking to them personally. HE MUST be talking to some who are not saved.

I think the whole world sees from your YELLING that it is you who are so afraid of being wrong.

You have a conundrum here.

1. If, As you say, James is proiving one can lose salvation by not doing works (which you shove down my throat on almost a daily basis) you must admit two things.

1. James is warning those who are saved thay can lose salvation if they do nto continue to do works.
2. James is talking to people who at one time were saved, but because of lack of works, they have lost their salvation, and are now no longer saved

why must you admit this? there is NO WAY james could possibly know everyone who he wrote this letter. or would read this letter would be saved And this goes not only for James, But peter, and paul and John, You assume they KNEW everyone they wrote to was saved, and no one who was not saved would read these letters, or be affected by them. The mere fact unsaved people read these passages today, and it has changed their viewpoint and brough them to the grace of God and salvation, proves these letters were written to all people. Not just believers.

the only other alternative is this. James is not saying at all that we are saved by works. thus he is not telling anyone we can lose our salvation, but saying if we have mere belief, we are not saved, and we can know who these people are by the fact they have no works.

either way you look at it. Number 2 proves you wrong in this discussion, and the last point proves you wrong in all of our other discussion.

There is no getting out of it. I am not exposing you. I am exposing the lie you have bought into.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2012

feedm3 said:

Here is the issue you are dealt with.

1. James was written to believers and non believers alike who attended the churches at the places he wrote to, and are still relevent to all the churches and people who read his letter today, saved or unsaved. He is warning them that mere belief is not enough, but a true faith, which WILL PRODUCE WORKS is the only way we can be saved) Which proves you wrong in our discussion today.

2. If not. And james is speaking to believers only, and not non believers of any type, but warning them about these men who are false teachers, who teach we can be saved by mere belief, and do not need to have faith at all (which I have stated over and over again is the fact!, and that no one who he wrote to believed in this false gospel) then you can NO LONGER USE this passage to prove one can lose their salvation. because what this passage does prove is not that one can lose it, But that many who claim to have it WERE NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH. Which again, is what I have said since day 1

either way, you have either been proven wrong in both aspects. Or you must admit at least one of what your are teaching is in error. because they can not both be right.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2012

feedm3 said:

if this is the case, then why did John directly say "If that which you heard abides in you" are you telling me people can be saved, and not have the gospel or christ abide in them?? you contradict yourself man!

either we can be saved and the word does not abide in us. or he is talking to people who are not saved. either way your have major issues.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2012

Closemyeyes2cU said:

I understand what your saying, and it would be easy to believe this. However lets look at it this way.

What brings a person to faith? Is it not the fact that they see the dire straights they are in? That they are in a storm so sever that unless they are rescued they will have ZERO hope of survival? Is it not this which brings us to TRUE repentnance which leads to salvation?

many people hear this message which can save them, but they do not see the dire straights they are in. It is like people who are in the water and see choppy water, but it is not so severe that they think they have a chance to save themselves. or worst yet do not need saved at all. But since the boat came to take them out of the water, they go ahead, and hitch a ride, so to speak. In other words, they are blinded as to the severity of the storm, and as such, do not understand the true nature of their trouble

see the difference in these two groups? One knows he is in trouble, and because of this allows himself to be rescued.

One does not reaaly see the trouble he is in, And goes along for the ride.

why is this important? those who go along for the ride will end up (jumping ship) because they loved the situation they were in, and did not see they needed saved to begin with (they either loved their sin more than being rescued from it, Or they loved the idea that they cdould save themselves, and instead of showing humility to allow the people who can save them to save them, they want to continue to try to save themselves. because they think they can.

vs the other group. Who sees and truly understands the storm they are in is so powerful, they could never save themselves, and would die if they were not saved.

now why is this important? Scripture says over and over again people who left the church were never saved, if they were, they never would have left. Why? If you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt you are in a position you will die unless you are rescued. you would NEVER put yourself in a position where you would need saved again, Because YOU KNOW you will die. in other words. these people would NEVER jump ship before they made it to shore.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

feedm3 said:

You are trying to, i am not letting you.

Okay man.

Huh? Dude, cite the passages you speak of. Stop just quoting half of them, and not citing them. I am not going to go do keyword searches to figure out what your saying, that's your job, to paste or cite the passage.

Show me one time I called you "a liar". You defientaly not telling the truth that has not happened yet.

1. It was written to the church
2. the church is saved - Acts 2:47

I need nothign further, my true intentions are what? That I believe I can lose my salavtion just as the Gal rom and Heb? Your intentions, 'we can live in sin and not have to face eternal consequences' - there's your motive.

I don't get anything convent out of beleiveing I MUST obey God. lol

Cant yell through typing that is immpossible. their is no audible sound coming from my posts. lol again.

Caps are same as bold - emphasis hoping if maybe in caps youll actually read and listen THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET EITHER

Lol are you really thinking you can trap me as I do you all the time, you cant unless you start only using scripture.

James is speaking to the church, yet hey church "if a man may say" called an example, a hypothietical example, "IF" IF IF a amn MAY MAY MAY cant get this?

I know you are but what i am I? Lol can you think of something origianal OR CAN YOU NOOOTTTTTTTTT?????!!!!!!!!!!

EVEN THOUGH YOUR ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT I WILL ANSWER:

1. JAMES IS WARNING THOSE THEY WILL LOSE SALVATION IF THEIR FAITH IS DEAD. DEAD FAITH COMES FROM NOT HAVING WORKS SO WITHOUT WORKS YOUR FAITH IS DEAD. SURE

NOW LETS BOTH PLAY THIS GAME:

YOUR SAYING A SAVED PERSON IS NOT SAVED BY WORKS BUT IF HE HAS NO WORKS HE IS NOT SAVED? CORRECT?

OR ARE YOU SAYING IF HE HAS ONE/A WORK HE IS SAVED SINCE THIS ONLY APPLIES TO ONE WHO HAS ZERO WORKS?

SO WHICH WORK SAVES? WHAT IS THE ONE HE NEEDS TO HAVE? IS IT ANY?

YOU BELIEVE A MAN IS SAVED BY FAITH AND AT LEAST ONE WORK. IF NOT THEN EXPLAIN

First of all what happened to Gal. You could not deal with the passages that proved they were Christians so you move to James. NOPE not allowing it.

DID the Gal have the Spririt?

Were these the same as those who were "bewitched"

Did those who were "BEWITCHED" possess salvation before they were "bewitched"?

Answer these honestly, and then we will move to James.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

First off, no contradiction, your not making clear what in the world your saying here.

John wrote telling already Christians, to continue in the doctrine of Christ. If they did (walk in the light) they did not have the father or the son. No one can be saved without the gospel (rom 1:16).

You must hear/obey the gosepel. So where is the contradiction? Expalin it, show it, dont just say it. Show me where I have contradicted myself with regards to John's statement.

NO we cannot be saved without abiding in the word. John directly said this because it is possible for a Christrian to depart from the faith, and not have the word abiding in them. Like the prodigal son, you know the one who left his father and became sprirtually dead. the one you say was still saved tho spiurtually dead - lol.

Youll have to do better than this if your going to try to do to me what I do to you on everything you teach. First, you need me to teach against plain meaning of words. Then you need me to take things way out of context. Then when I do these things like you do, you might be able to find a contradiction or inconsistency. Until then, if I only use what the Bible says, youll never find one, because God does not contradict himeself, and if you only speak the true message, youll awalys be consistent. Praise God and his omniscient mind.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

You said I can no longer use this passage, yet your the only one bringing this up, we were in Gal, you failed to show your point becaue the text is so plain, now your attempting to move to James with an entriely different argument.

I can tear this down just as easy as the rest of your false views, yet it will do no good with yo because your always right, and when wrong, you just slip away to another subject. This is sad. But just to show the fallecy in your arguemnts, I will tear this one down just as your others.

eternally-gratefull said:

Here is the issue you are dealt with.

First, you need to show why you say what you do. A passage would be nice. I can show it was written to Christians, can you show the unblievvers as well?

agreed.

Lol, again, HOw does that prove me wrong? care to show instead of just saying it? Now just said "true faith will produce works the only way we can be saved". So your saying one without works does not have true faith and is not saved? Is that a twist? If so where? Your saying true faith has works, and if not then not saved, so then you believe in works salvation. Simple as that.

Why not? He is writting the saved, and telling them not to let anyone convince them (as you do) that works are not essential to salvation, and true faith. If they did allow the false teachers to convince all we need is to believe, and they began to live in sin, then they would not be saved because they would poseess "Dead faith".

I would say nice try, but it really wasnt. Your trying to hard to catch me in an inconsisentcy because your stuck in one since day one. Focus on the text, focus on giving justified answers.

Nope, again thats yoru addtion. If not show me the passage. Show me where James says those with dead faith were never saved to begin with. Not there, again it's a warnig TO THE CHURCH THE SAVED not all who attend their assembly believer and non believer.

Lets now go to James and see if we can find a passage that deals with non - believers:

1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting

Nothing here about ubleieers being the receiptents: So is the 12 tribes of Isreal describign those who are already God's children, or bleievers and unbleivers alike: Lets see:

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord

Can an ubleiver ask anything in faith? NO he does not believe. Can he ask God for wisdom in faith, yet not believe? Of course not.

IF "any" any means all inclusive of the receptepts. Yet if unbelievers were present he would be tellign them to ask for wisom in faith, yet they dont beleive. NOPPPPEEEEE

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures

Does this also include ubbelievers? He said my beloved brethern, they "we" and "us", never excluded anyone, never said except for you who do not beleve. Again proves this was only written to the church the saved, Chirstians.

More warnings:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors

He is waring the saved in chapter 2 now not to respect those who are rich because they are rich. He said they would become transgressors of the law.

Question to you:
what law is James speaking of?

Now the warning of being deceived:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves

This introduces the next chapter, those who can be deceived by false teachers thinking their belief alone will save them.

They were aready saved, they were "begotten with us" those who were saved. Yet if they like the Gal believed the false teachers, they would be deceiving themselves.

Look at this verse:
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain

What is this saying. If any seem to be relgious among, but has a potty mouth his religon is vain. So were there some who had potty mouths? Maybe. Did this change them? Maybe. Were they saved before? Yes Because they were "begotten with us", and if they chose to live in sin, they would LOSE that salvation.

Or would you say they were never saved. Then I will ask, do you teach all that have potty mouths are not saved? This is all that's mentioned in that context and passage, nothign about works, faith, just potty mouth. I know this covers more than cursing, it is control of the tounge. Yet would you tell one who claims to be a Chirstian yet does not control his/her tounge their religion is vain (empty, pointless)?

Just to say yove been proven wrong, and not show where, is just fluff cuz you need something to feel your not looking like you hve no idea what yuor saying.

Not working. try again.
No mention of unbelieers anywhere in the text, just as Gal, Rom, Heb, all do say they are written to the church. So you need another group of people to explain these books, adn I ahve shown you there is no such people. NOw what will you do? How will you explain them? will you be honest? At least do it for those you teach, be a Jermimaih and have courage to admit when your worng, and stand up for the truth. This is corwardly way to teach God's word.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2012

feedm3 said:

eternally-gratefull said:

up to here. Not letting me what? THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD IS OSAS

And give you the passage? I have given it to you three times now. My god are you blind? keep on refusing to see.

when you say my interpretation is in error. you are calling me a liar. duh!!

It was written to an assembly. Not everyone who is assembled is saved, you can not prove they are, never will be able to. so give it up.

Lets get this straight here. just so I can prove once again you do not believe or listen to a word i have to say.

1. You believe you can lose salvation (thus you do not believe in Grace, you think you have to somehow "perfect your salvation")
2. I believe those who are saved will NEVER LIVE IN SIN AGAIN, As John said (Those born of God CANT sin because of God which lives in them)

which is the exact opposite of what you claim I belive. I reject a licentious gospel. AND YOU KNOW IT.

If you believe you must obay God or you will lose your salvation. You must believe you will at some time in your life be perfect. reject the fact that all the past sin in your life already condemns you. And be ignorant of the fact that any and all win you will continue to commit will make you unqualified. As paul said, If you trying to be justified by the law, you are bound to keep the whole law, and in doing so, the grace of God is rendered useless to you.

You can't do this, because you can't see yourself in the eyes of God., You can't see the fact that when God sees you even on your best day, you are so undeserving in that day of being saved, and without his grace and forgiveness, you would have no hope. this is why you have not yet repented the true repentnance which leads to salvation. and gives you the hope paul spoke of.

I have read everything. And have shown you to be in error. You keep saying i believe things I do not believe, it is you who needs to learn to read.

I thought you said you stopped making attacks? I guess that was a lie also. Wow you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper

James is speeking to an assembly of people who claim to be a part of the church. most are probably saved, But we would be foolish to think everyone who he wrote this letter to, Everyone who had this letter read to them. or anyone who would EVER read his letter is saved and going to heaven. Thats your belief, not made on facts, but based on the fact you do not want to be proven wrong.

But your whole assumption is based on the fact that some of these people had not already "lost this faith so to speak" this alone proves you are in error. Your whole argument is based on assumptions not fact.

Secondly. If what James is telling them is as you say. What is the amount of work one must produce to understand their faith is no longer alive? If james was warning them, woudl he not tell them how much works is requried?

thirdly. James said, If you SAY YOU HAVE FAITH, BUT HAVE ZERO WORK, YOUR FAITH IS DEAD. in other words, he gave the answer. the answer to how many works would separate a person of true faith, from a person who had no faith at all, but mere belief, if ZERO WORKS means you have no faith. any amount above zero would appear to prove you must have some faith. Yet this is not what James is saying, it is not the context of the passage at all. YOUR the one trying to force this context. Even though, How much faith saves us? Jesus said the faith of a mustard seed. How much faith is this?

No. I am saying a person is saved by faith. And as Paul said OVER AND OVER AGAIN, a person who has true faith WILL PRODUCE WORKS. there is no negative connotation here. A person who is saved WILL PRODUCE WORKS.

Its like turning on a light switch which is powered by God. If you turn it on, IT WILL LIGHT. why? Who powers the light?? GOD (so it will always come on) so when you turn on the gospel to empower it with your faith. what will happen? The power of the gospel which will make you work WILL COME ON, why? it is the power of God which makes us work.

Now lets look at it a different way, we turn on a light switch which is not powered by God. Will the light come on? NO.. why? there is NO POWER TO LIGHT THE LIGHT. This like us trying to turn on a gospel which is not from God. And since it is NOT powered by God. YOU WILL NOT have the power to do any work.

Your trying to take a positive assertion which paul made clear. and turn it to a negative. If a person has no works, he must not be saved. Which guess what? THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT JAMES IS SAYING!

The point is not that a person who has one work is saved. that is not the point which james is making. But if we want to twist what James is saying and make it this context. Then yes, Since 1 is more than Zero. and ONLY ZERO works proves you have no faith. then one work would be enough to prove your faiht was real.

But this is ridiculous is it not? Again, this is not the context. the context is those who CLAIM to have faith. Not those who really had it.

None, We are not saved by works, we are saved by grace through faith. And those who are saved WILL RPODUCE WORKS (eph 2: 8-10) but you refuse to see this.

No. I believe a man saved by faith WILL WORK. huge difference.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

feedm3 said:

"My God"? Throw that around a bit loosely their dont you? I guess that typical of one who does not claim to fear God.

"Duh" now" Lets see here.

Error - being wrong about something

Liar - one who is not telling the truth on purpose.

So again how does me saying your in error equate to me calling you lair? Duh?

Dude that's just plain stupid. First off in the 1st century Chirstians assembled, it was not full of unbelievers and believers and were mostly held in homes. They were being severly perscucted, it was not the same church "service" we have today.

2nd.
Those the Greek word for the church is "ekklasia" meanig the "called out". So when a letter is addressed to the "church" it does not give the idea of a mixed assmebly, but a group that has been "called out" of the world into Christ.

Cmon greek master, you can figue this out right?

I beleive we can reject grace (even after receiving it) by going prodigal. Living in sin, willfully sinning, turning our backs on God.

You beleive:
A saved person will not live in sin because that shows he was never saved.

Then, A saved person living in sin will be brought back to God and have no chioce. Another contradiction. How can a saved person live in a manner that shows he was never saved be brought back?

You can reject Grace:
Ii Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

You have never once attempted to explain the above passage. Can you? Go to the context, read it, then give me your ridiculous answer, and then I will show you the correct interpretation.

So then you are not able to sin. How is that?

1. Does it mean you cant because God wont let you,
2. or because sins has been paid for allowing you to commit it?
3. Or becuase you will not choose to sin ever again?

Please clarify which is it? You always say this, and your awser is alway vauge" because John said it". I know John said it.
I am asking you what it means. HOw is it a Chirstian will never live in sin again?????? Give a straght answer, pretend someone at your church is asking you to explain it.

dont be afriad.

I know you claim that. You in no way reject it. You teach if we sin we only face earthly consequences because Christ paid the price for sin and we can never be judged for it again.

I could care less how you put the frosting on, that is lecentious, and the comple oppisite of what the scripture teach about these unfaithful servants - Luk 12:40-f.

Wrong if we were to be perfiect, we would not need repentacnce. Repentance is given becuase we are not perfect, try again.

No it doesnt, I have been cleansed by the blood of Christ. If I happen to sin, I need to repent, and confess my sin and he is faithufl and just to forgive me.

You believe I can remain in my sin and not have to worry about eternal consequences. Sorry, not swollowing that, the Bible speaks much concerning this.

Again way out of context. I am not teaching anyone to return to the Law of Moses.

Are you under any law at all? Does grace remove law? One time you said you were under the law of chirst, does that mean it's a law of no law?

You said it. True repentance which leads to salvation. Is repetnacne a work done on our part? How does it lead to salation. If we do not repent can we be saved?

And if we fail in the future, repentance is still avalible. At least until God's shuts the door.

Okay then debate me.

I am attacking your doctrine, not you as a person. You doctrine is phony and fake.

Really I didnt catch that passage that showed this, can you paste it?

All I seen was they were the same as were "begotten with us", of the Father. The 12 tribes of Isreal (showing this was a Jewish church) and that's it. Never just like in Gal does the subject change.

Most a probably....no cant base salvtion on prob and maybe.

Second, the letter is addressed to the church, if there were some their who were not saved as result of being in sin, then okay, still the letter is addressed to the church. To assume those who were not saved were never saved to begin with is foolish and is just another forced conclusion.

Yes I assume that the church is saved because of Acts 2:47. YOU?

I assume those who can ask for the wisdom in faith are saved? YOU?

My assumptions are based on text, your are forced because you need them to mean that. Why else are you pushing this 2nd group of unbelievers so hard? Because you need them. And your assumptions are factless. Show me one fact youve stated. My facts are the passages. NOw where are yours?

NO HE DID NOT YOU ADDED "ZERO".

I REST MY CASE, YOUR STUCK ON ZERO WHEN THE PASSAGES ARE SPEKAING OF OBEDIENCE BEING THE ESSENCE OF TRUE FAITH. THAT ABOVE YOUR LEVEL THOUGH, YOULL NEVER GET THAT UNTIL YOU STOP TRYING TO FIND LOOPHOLES FOR SIN.

AND IF A PERSON HAS NOT PRODUCED WORKS, THEN HE IS NOT SAVED RIGHT? SO IT IS MY THE PRODUCTION OF WORKS THAT SHOWS IF WERE SAVED OR NOT. SO YOU SHOULD BE TEACHING EVERYONE TO GET OUT AND DO WORKS SO THEY CAN SHOW THEY HAVED TRUE FAITH.

YES YOUR STILL STUCK HERE.

So if the light swich will not come on then what? It has lost it's light, just as Jesus warned we can do with the illistriation of salt. If it' loses it's savor....we can lose our light, we can reject God.

anyway make this simple and just debate me. Tell me what state your in and I promise I will have a place near you by the end of this month. We can set the date for like 3 months away to give us time to prepare. You can choose the neg or aff. cmon man this would be a good thing.

Closemyeyes2cU · Aug 17, 2012

"Then, A saved person living in sin will be brought back to God and have no chioce. Another contradiction. How can a saved person live in a manner that shows he was never saved be brought back?"

Thats actually an interesting point. I never thought of it like that.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

Closemyeyes2cU said:

Ive been asking how that is possible forever now.

Grandpa · Aug 17, 2012

feedm3 said:

Good Question. It is answered in Romans 7

Romans 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

feedm3 · Aug 17, 2012

Grandpa said:

This is talking about the difference lusts of the flesh and Spirit that war with one another. Please dont tell me you were using this verse to say Paul was saying he serves sin with the flesh, as in he lives in sin because he is in the flesh.

That would condrtic what he said here:

Rom 6:
Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certianly not, how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer theirin?

He does not use our flesh as an excuse to sin. I dont know if that's what you meant, but it defiantly does not answer the quesiton I posed above in which you cited these verses.

Grandpa · Aug 17, 2012

feedm3 said:

Do you see anywhere in there where Paul says he is using his flesh as an excuse to sin?

No. It just shows the constant war the flesh has with the spirit and how it may appear to someone looking from the outside as if they were living in a manner that would be considered 'unsaved' and then were brought back. You know, the answer to your question...

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2012

Closemyeyes2cU said:

an ever better point.

A saved person CAN NOT LIVE IN SIN. so how can a saved person, who is living in sin, which he can't do anyway, be brought back? From what?

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

along with 1 John 5: 18

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself,[e] and the wicked one does not touch him.

so tell me. If John says a person who is born of God CAN NOT live in sin. Why do people waant to claim a child of God CAN live in sin, fall from grace, and have to be restored to salvation?

Can Salvation be lost??

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