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men! have to remind then of everything...sigh
A
Sorry, if it sounded as if my post was directed to you. It wasn't. I was referring to Christians in general. I just wanted to make the point that it's a privilege to know god early and that Christians shouldn't judge because nobody is perfect. In my opinion some Christians are a bit too harsh. We are not perfect ourselves only because we call ourselves Christians (again I was not referring to you Chelsers. You are doing everything right)
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7.
God bless!
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7.
God bless!
I won't settle for anyone less than a virgin. Unless they were that way before becoming Christian. I've found non-virgins to be shaky in their faith, questionable spirituality , still tied in bondage to previous sexual partners, and possibly under demonic oppression of some form, with fairly loose morals. We are all sinners, but fornication to me is like adultery before marriage.
No, just in my personal experience, there is a noticable trend. Virgins are generally more stable, both spiritually and emotionally. Which makes them more desirable for solid long-lasting marriages. Unless non-virgins get the adequate counselling and/or spiritual deliverance that they need. Whether loss of virginity is a cause or a symptom, of deeper existing issues, I'm not sure, it could either/or or a bit of both. BTW some (but not me) would dispute whether Joyce Meyer is a good example of a Christian. Yet I fully understand what you are saying. God's power can deliver and set free all consequences from anything, and heal. But your average run of the mill non-virgin christian, is usually not so open to the things of the power of God, at least that's what I've found.
J
Lol, I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading in here. >.< I better bow out of this thread before I get further incensed.
Before I go, I'll just share some verses. The one Anja shared sums it up the best, but here are some additions.
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)
"Come now and let us reason together," says the Lord,
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." (Isaiah 1:18)
"Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)
Apparently, when some of you look at these verses in your Bibles, you see, "Except for pre-marital sex. That one doesn't get forgiven. Not really."
Before I go, I'll just share some verses. The one Anja shared sums it up the best, but here are some additions.
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)
"Come now and let us reason together," says the Lord,
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." (Isaiah 1:18)
"Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)
Apparently, when some of you look at these verses in your Bibles, you see, "Except for pre-marital sex. That one doesn't get forgiven. Not really."
Well Jordan, when a person becomes a christian, all their past life issues and consesquences for those are not automatically erased. If you think they are, that is only wishful thinking. Their mind and memories are not erased (as in brainwashing), and they are only at the start of a long journey of recovering in emotions and the mind, from their past life, and it takes time. This is not about forgiveness, this is about having the best chance possible for a happy and long and successful marriage.
BTW the same arguments apply to any sort of former addicts, and divorcees, abuse and rape victims, criminals etc etc.
BTW the same arguments apply to any sort of former addicts, and divorcees, abuse and rape victims, criminals etc etc.
Fornication is not like accidentally saying a swear word from time to time, a mistake, a "slip up". It can be a serious thing. My views might seem strict or harsh to some of you, but that is too bad. The bible isn't any less strict when it comes to fornication, so maybe you should familiarise yourselves with some of the apostle's teachings. 1. do not keep company with a christian who is a fornicator, and 2. the eternal consequences of fornication.
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat.
Unrepented fornication has eternal consequences , and is on the same level as idolatry, adultery, and homosexuality:
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat.
Unrepented fornication has eternal consequences , and is on the same level as idolatry, adultery, and homosexuality:
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
J
"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ" 2 Peter 1:1
Peter says that Christians possess a faith equal to "ours" the apostles. Peter was one of Jesus' closest disciples, he witnessed the Transfiguration, the anguish in Gethsemane, the Crucifixion. Peter wrote two books of the Bible (and probably had a major role in helping Mark publish his Gospel.) Peter was personally trained in spirituality, theology, and religion by God Himself.
And yet, Peter declares that all who confess that the Lord Jesus is their God and Savior are on an equal plane with him.
Yet you disagree, or so I feel by virtue of your comments. I don't think your desire for a virgin is godly, it's patriarchal. If God turned away from Israel every time she committed adultery and sin, we'd be in hard shape.
Peace.
Peter says that Christians possess a faith equal to "ours" the apostles. Peter was one of Jesus' closest disciples, he witnessed the Transfiguration, the anguish in Gethsemane, the Crucifixion. Peter wrote two books of the Bible (and probably had a major role in helping Mark publish his Gospel.) Peter was personally trained in spirituality, theology, and religion by God Himself.
And yet, Peter declares that all who confess that the Lord Jesus is their God and Savior are on an equal plane with him.
Yet you disagree, or so I feel by virtue of your comments. I don't think your desire for a virgin is godly, it's patriarchal. If God turned away from Israel every time she committed adultery and sin, we'd be in hard shape.
Peace.
Personally, I would prefer someone who is a virgin. I myself am one, HOWEVER those of you who also share with me that are also virgins...did not Jesus say that if you lust after a woman then you;ve committed adultery in your mind? The only difference is that one is physical and the other metaphysical, body and the mind( even though the physical one does have more complications and backlash etc etc. )
That being said, someone who isn't a virgin wouldn't matter to me just so long as they are spiritually strong. We all make mistakes no? I wouldn't want someone not being a virgin to keep me from marrying them so much as I'd want another girl to not marry me because I used to be addicted to pornography.
THAT being said, let me show yall this.
Jeremiah 31:3-4 The Lord appeared to us in the past,saying: "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful.
In the old testament, the nation of Israel had prostituted themselves out to the nations and their numerous "gods", however, as demonstrated in Hosea and here, God takes us back and he restores us. Our bodies ( and sometimes our minds) will never be virgins again, however, God can and does make us spiritually pure or a spiritual "virgin" of sorts. He makes us the way we were before we were defiled. Notice even after that it says that they are able to rejoice! Even after all our past and faults we can dare dream to be happy again, this time with God as our head!
Mahogany, I can totally understand your point, but you shouldn't let peoples past define who they are. if you have good discernment of a person's character, and their standing with God in life, then you can figure out who has a " shaky spiritual life" I know you have discernment between people and you can use it!
That's my main view on this.
That being said, someone who isn't a virgin wouldn't matter to me just so long as they are spiritually strong. We all make mistakes no? I wouldn't want someone not being a virgin to keep me from marrying them so much as I'd want another girl to not marry me because I used to be addicted to pornography.
THAT being said, let me show yall this.
Jeremiah 31:3-4 The Lord appeared to us in the past,saying: "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful.
In the old testament, the nation of Israel had prostituted themselves out to the nations and their numerous "gods", however, as demonstrated in Hosea and here, God takes us back and he restores us. Our bodies ( and sometimes our minds) will never be virgins again, however, God can and does make us spiritually pure or a spiritual "virgin" of sorts. He makes us the way we were before we were defiled. Notice even after that it says that they are able to rejoice! Even after all our past and faults we can dare dream to be happy again, this time with God as our head!
Mahogany, I can totally understand your point, but you shouldn't let peoples past define who they are. if you have good discernment of a person's character, and their standing with God in life, then you can figure out who has a " shaky spiritual life" I know you have discernment between people and you can use it!
That's my main view on this.
Yes, I should have made that clearer in my post re: unrepentant fornication, that I refer to unrepentant fornication.
I did say however:
Yet these scriptures do reveal the potential seriousness of this type of sin, (it includes a whole range of things not just loss of virginity). Which means it should be given less levity than it seems to be given by most in this forum.
I think you have confused God's justification and salvation in Jesus, with consequences for sin. This is not about salvation, but about practicality. Different sins have different consequences. Fornication is a spiritual union with another person, and is not simply two pieces of meat joining together. Consider the original purpose of bleeding with the marriage covenant. Covenants are entered into by blood. The first person a person has sex with, in God's eyes they are spiritually joined, they are one. That is why in the OT if a person had sex with a virgin they had to marry. Thinking that such sins as sex before marriage has no potential spiritual, emotional and physical consequences, is naive. You will always carry around that life experience with you, and the first sexual partner you have ever had into any future marriages, which may mean more work has to be done to have a long and happy marriage.
I did say however:
Yet these scriptures do reveal the potential seriousness of this type of sin, (it includes a whole range of things not just loss of virginity). Which means it should be given less levity than it seems to be given by most in this forum.
I think you have confused God's justification and salvation in Jesus, with consequences for sin. This is not about salvation, but about practicality. Different sins have different consequences. Fornication is a spiritual union with another person, and is not simply two pieces of meat joining together. Consider the original purpose of bleeding with the marriage covenant. Covenants are entered into by blood. The first person a person has sex with, in God's eyes they are spiritually joined, they are one. That is why in the OT if a person had sex with a virgin they had to marry. Thinking that such sins as sex before marriage has no potential spiritual, emotional and physical consequences, is naive. You will always carry around that life experience with you, and the first sexual partner you have ever had into any future marriages, which may mean more work has to be done to have a long and happy marriage.
Katashi, I sort of see being a non-virgin (after coming to Christ) indicates spiritual weakness. A non-virgin spiritually -strong person hmmmm...can happen. Just like spiritually strong former rapists, spiritually strong ex-murderers, spiritually strong ex-homosexuals. Just don't expect a person to be completely over the person they had sex with within a year, and have a relatively problem-free happy lifelong marriage.
Well granted. I take into account that people have consequences people have to get past. However, some have admitted in here that they aren't virgins, yet they seem spiritually grounded after the fact of said sin, so it can happen and it is happening! I still say that discernment is the key, for virgin or non-virgin