The False Doctrine of OSAS

[cfultz3]

In this first post, we will talk about the assumption the OSAS doctrine teaches, in that, we have our rest now, as opposed to us not obtaining that rest until we are like the cloud of witnesses who before God now.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The OSAS doctrine teaches that we have already entered into our rest, even as God, Jesus, and the great cloud of witnesses have. The result of that is that there is no need to give heed to all the if...thens, warnings of apostatizing, exhorting to keep in the race, the need to follow God's led towards that rest. So the work of salvation is laid aside and replaced with the notion that we have already entered our rest, although we are still in the flesh and still have works which are to be accounted for.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The following questions should be asked by you and honestly answered: If we are in our sabbatical rest now, then is our rest also constituted with the works of the flesh? That is, has the Spirit cleansed my works and all which remains now are my works done in righteousness through Him? Has He told me as He told Jesus, 'Well done. Now come and rest while I make your enemies your footstool?' Has it yet been said of me as it was said concerning God, 'and God saw all His works, in that they were good, and He rested'? And as long as I are here in the flesh, have I yet become a witness of my fellow brothers as they who have obtained rest and look down upon me as I too run to obtain that same rest? So, if rest is now, why do I yet toil in the works I received upon God's expulsion of us from Eden?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A word study of the words translated as 'rest' in the New Testament[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]G2663 (noun) - a resting place, a putting to rest. From G2664 (verb) - to settle down, to colonize.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]G2664 (verb) -- to desist, restrain, to cause to be at rest, to grant rest.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The reason why God in Hebrews 3:9 did not allow a whole generation to enter His rest was because, as He says, 'they are always lead astray in their heart and have not come to know my ways (courses of conduct)'. This verse is important to take note of. We first see that it is speaking in the present passive (are lead) and then it turns to the second aorist active (they have not come to know). The active second aorist tells us that there is a consequence associated with one's past action. And we clearly see that the consequence of not having come to know God's ways (His will) is that one is lead astray. When one, in having laid aside hearkening to the leading of the Spirit in the new Covenant as a part of the Law of Ordinances (their active second aorist), they are faced with the consequence of continuously being lead astray because they do not rely upon and concur with the guidance of God that His way (the path He is leading on) is the correct path to enter His rest. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But all the more, because they did not come to know God's ways, even as some do not come to know His ways in the administration of the new Covenant, God says in Hebrews 3:11, 4:5: As I have sworn in my anger, 'As if they shall enter into my rest'. From this, we understand that God becomes angry at those who will not come to know His ways, those who refuse to comply with His will (Heb 3:18). And we learn from John 15:26 that it is the Spirit of Truth which is sent to bear record of God's ways which are now manifested in the doctrine of the Christ and will guide us into all truths as pertaining to God's ways (God's will) (John 16:13). It is by obedience to the Truth which is revealed to us by that same Spirit, that we do purify our souls (1 Peter 1:22) to a condition which will allow us access to our rest, as opposed to those who will receive the second death and will never receive their rest (there will be no intermission (rest)). I therefore exhort you, it is all the more important to understand that if it is not the Spirit of God before your face leading you forward, then it is a spirit which will lead you astray. Let us, therefore, turn our eyes towards God and let Him lead us to His rest so that we do not fall short of that promise (Heb 4:1) . Seeing that it is those who have believed who enters into rest (Heb 4:3), let us labor to enter into rest so that we do not fall after the same example of unbelief as those in the wilderness did and were not allowed to enter into God's rest (Heb 4:11). And because we are still in the flesh, and it is only those who have entered into a sabbatical rest who have ceased from his own works, as God did from His, then there remains a sabbatical rest for the people of God (Heb 4:9-10) to obtain. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Do not be led astray by the OSAS doctrine. The hearkening to God's guidance, inasmuch as it was needful for those in the wilderness to be led by God, is as important now as it was then to obtain a rest from our works. The OSAS doctrine will have you to believe that even this is not necessary. All I ask is that you believe no one, but go yourself and search what the Word of God has to say. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]G373 (verb) -- to cease from movement or labor in order to recover and collect one's strength, refresh, relax, take rest.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]G372 (noun) -- intermission, recreation, rest[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]These two words pertain to taking a break from work, what we call, 'lunch break/sleep', and then returning to work. Inasmuch as we do things during the day and get tired and sleep the night and then return the next day doing those things again, 'taking a rest from our everyday doings'. This is the same meaning which Jesus had when He said, 'Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.' (Mat 11:28-30) He is saying that He will be your break from your works and having rested from your works and waking up in the (next) Day, you will not be burden with the heavy toils performed by the sweet of your brow (physical doings). But that now, your toil is to learn from Him what works are needed (spiritual doings). That is, let Him guide you back to Paradise lost by replacing that curse placed upon man during their eviction from Eden. A curse which says that a man is to submit to the Law to find his way back to that fellowship with God (which way was unfruitful). But, His toil is submit to Him as the means of obtaining what was lost. That is, let Him guide you back, seeing that His way is fruitful (seeing that He, as a man, did obtain what was lost. Seeing that He does set next to God at rest).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All the other instances of this word means exactly, ' take a break as to be refreshed'. The same rest the weary looks for but does not have (there is no rest for the weary).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]One's spirit (1Co 16:17-18, 2Co 7:13), one's body (Mat 26:45, Mar 6:31, 14:41), one's soul (Luk 12:19, Rev 6:11, 14:15), one's compassion (Phm 1:7, 1:20), can be refreshed in this manner. And with that understanding, we, those who are reproached in the name of Christ, are given this sort of rest by the Spirit of Glory and of God (1Pe 4:14). So, in times of stress, in times of both spiritual and physical battles, receive the refreshing rest which comes from God so that we may continue onward in our race to obtain the goal: everlasting life (a forevermore existence in the presence of God, as opposed to an everlasting destruction from His presence).[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For those interested in the other words which can be translated as 'rest'.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]G1879 (verb (middle voice)) -- to rest upon (in) anything, to settle upon on a thing, to find comfort (derived from G1909 (upon) and G373 (to rest))[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This sort of rest can best be explained as, 'Go and rest yourself on the couch/bed/chair' and is derived from the same 'rest' which means 'to take a break (G373). Both instances of this word (Luk 10:6 and Rom 2:17) implies, 'to find comfort/is comfortable in'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]G2681 (verb) – lodge. lodge. As in, we lodge in hope (Act 2:26) until the full manifestation of our Lord. Hope is our hotel we lodge in during our journey.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]G425 (noun) -- a relaxing, liberty, relief. It is a relief given from a vexation (Act 24:23, 2Co 2:13, 7:5, 8:13 2Th 1:7)[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In this first post, we will talk about the assumption the OSAS doctrine teaches, in that, we have our rest now, as opposed to us not obtaining that rest until we are like the cloud of witnesses who before God now.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The OSAS doctrine teaches that we have already entered into our rest,

[/FONT]

before ya even started you are dead wrong. OSAS does not teach we have entered his rest, this is a lie, and since your argument starts on a lie,. we can be assured the rest of it is probably based on the same lie. so lets first get and speak to the first lie before we speak about the rest.

 

[damombomb]

Hebrews 3:19So we see that they were unable to enter because of their unbelief
Hebrews 4:1-11
4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[cfultz3]

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before ya even started you are dead wrong. OSAS does not teach we have entered his rest, this is a lie, and since your argument starts on a lie,. we can be assured the rest of it is probably based on the same lie. so lets first get and speak to the first lie before we speak about the rest.

My answer to this:

do you, besides faith alone, need to do anything else to obtain salvation? Of course, you will say 'no'. Then by that reply, you are saying that you have entered rest while yet in the flesh.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My answer to this:

do you, besides faith alone, need to do anything else to obtain salvation? Of course, you will say 'no'. Then by that reply, you are saying that you have entered rest while yet in the flesh.

and my answer would be this.

If I have to do anything else. I would be working to earn my salvation. and not recieving it as a gift. Which you claim you do not teach.

as for entering his rest. Your twisting things to support your own false theory.

1. A man or woman born into Gods family are adopted into it as mere babes.
2. A babe can not enter rest, he has to have everything given to him. and does not always take what is good for him.
3. A babe has to learn to trust his parents. He does this by learning what is right, and through trial and error.
4. A baby growns into a child. but still has not matured into a person where he can enter rest by trusting his parent, but still has questions.
5. Even as young adults, we still do not trust our parents fully. so still cannot enter rest.

It is not until we are fully mature adult Christians that we can enter Gods rest where we trust him fully with everything in our life, even to th epoint of death.

Dude you can twist things all you want. It does not make what you say true. if your going to tell me what I say, believe and teach, you could at least give me the common courtesy of responding to what I say, and not make statements with no basis of fact!

 

[cfultz3]

and my answer would be this.

If I have to do anything else. I would be working to earn my salvation. and not recieving it as a gift. Which you claim you do not teach.

as for entering his rest. Your twisting things to support your own false theory.

1. A man or woman born into Gods family are adopted into it as mere babes.
2. A babe can not enter rest, he has to have everything given to him. and does not always take what is good for him.
3. A babe has to learn to trust his parents. He does this by learning what is right, and through trial and error.
4. A baby growns into a child. but still has not matured into a person where he can enter rest by trusting his parent, but still has questions.
5. Even as young adults, we still do not trust our parents fully. so still cannot enter rest.

It is not until we are fully mature adult Christians that we can enter Gods rest where we trust him fully with everything in our life, even to th epoint of death.

Dude you can twist things all you want. It does not make what you say true. if your going to tell me what I say, believe and teach, you could at least give me the common courtesy of responding to what I say, and not make statements with no basis of fact!

So, if you have nothing else to do, then the OSAS doctrine teaches that we are at rest. Scripture teaches us that we are to love and if we do not love then we have neither the Father nor the Son. So you see, love is a commandment and is therefore something we must do to maintain the fellowship we have with both. Jesus spoke Truth when He said, "If you love me, then keep my commandemnts."

Hmmm, hi EG. I think I have been replying.

What have I said that is not based on Scriptural facts?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, if you have nothing else to do, then the OSAS doctrine teaches that we are at rest.

No it does not. why are you telling me I teach what I am not teaching? who died and made you God?

being saved eternally, and having rest here on earth is not the same thing. it is YOU aho are teaching this lie. not me. One can not even contemplate entering rest UNTIL HE IS SAVED. and even God did not promise we would get to this point. The only rest I have is I know I will make it to heaven. That does not assure me my life here on earth will be all peaches and I will never worry, that takes learning christ. and learning to trust him. scripture states this and YOU KNOW IT

Scripture teaches us that we are to love and if we do not love then we have neither the Father nor the Son. So you see, love is a commandment and is therefore something we must do to maintain the fellowship we have with both. Jesus spoke Truth when He said, "If you love me, then keep my commandemnts."

scripture teaches us if we do not do this we have NEVER KNOWN THE FATHER. How can someo who has NEVER KNOWN THE FATHER have been saved in the first place? if we do not know God we are not saved, if we are not saved, we can't lose it. you can;t lose what you do not have!

and what are his commands? the law. ain;t it funny how you keep returning to the law when you deny it!

Hmmm, hi EG. I think I have been replying.

What have I said that is not based on Scriptural facts?

No. We have been justified freely by the grace of God. not of works. but by faith in Christ. Those are the facts. we do not have to earn it, in fact we can;t earn it. you will never be good enough to earn salvation as long as you live, so why do you think you will?

we do not perfect, or keep this justification by then working to earn it. as paul said, we would be fools if we try to do this.

 

[damombomb]

Mattew11:28Come to me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

[cfultz3]

Mattew11:28Come to me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Will you expand on what sort of rest?

 

[cfultz3]

EG,

If I say that the OSAS doctrine teaches this or that, then it does not say EG teaches this or that. If OSAS is your doctrine then are you saying you are the founder of this doctrine?

 

[Abiding]

how about this?:

Once saved almost maybe saved.

would that be OK?

or:

Once saved not always saved.

 

[cfultz3]

how about this?:

Once saved almost maybe saved.

would that be OK?

or:

Once saved not always saved.

If OSAS is true, why must I content for my faith? Why must I hope in the promises. Why am I given the Spirit of Hope? If it is true, why then do some fall from grace? Why then be given freewill?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If OSAS is true, why must I content for my faith? Why must I hope in the promises. Why am I given the Spirit of Hope? If it is true, why then do some fall from grace? Why then be given freewill?

why? So you can live the most blessed life God can give you with no fear and distress, and you can be like paul, who calls great tribulation such as being stoned and left for dead, jailed for false testimony and pretense. going from living a life of luxery to a live of poverty and the many other things he spoke of as "momentary light afflictions" and in doing so. You can gain much victory for God, and be a continuous light in the world which draws people who need Jesus to him by your suffering, even though you do not call it suffering because you have entered his rest.

paul entered his rest. many of us will not do this. It does not mean we are not saved, it means we lack faith and trust in our father, because we are either still babes who need fed milk, or just spiritual adolescenses who have yet to grow up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG,

If I say that the OSAS doctrine teaches this or that, then it does not say EG teaches this or that. If OSAS is your doctrine then are you saying you are the founder of this doctrine?

lol. just because some who teach osas teaches it falsly des that mean all people who teach osas believe the same way?

Do all people who teach we can lose salvation believe we lose it the same way? you all can not even be united in your doctrine, do you expect us to be united?

a licentious gospel teaches osas, but falsely. but last I heard, even they do not teach we enter his rest the moment we are saved. No one I have ever heard teach eternal life is a one time event has ever said that. so I have no clue where you get that from!

 

[Abiding]

If OSAS is true, why must I content for my faith? Why must I hope in the promises. Why am I given the Spirit of Hope? If it is true, why then do some fall from grace? Why then be given freewill?[/QUOT

Ive never even thought of OSAS till i came into these threads. I actually have been given the label
since i will contend for scripture and the gospel. But i think it would be silly to say i believe in OSAS
since others will want to contend with it from another biblical position and id have to say they have
a good point.

I couldnt start a thread called OSAS because i know some who are in the church and
somewhat following the bible are not converted(but think they are). Therefore they must go on as many verses
tell us to. I understand a person can be an apostate. Whether they were ever regenerate
seems to me the bible says no, although that is debated.

But the best i can do is see that salvation is eternal life. And the road is not easy and
i will never say salvation is anything but a gift. To receive.

None of us have seen Jesus, none of us has seen heaven. Thats why we hope.
Thats why we live by faith and not by site. Faith in God and His promises.
That He will never leave us or forsake us, but keep us.

 

[megaman125]

Hey look, it's eternally grateful preaching the OSAS doctrine again. I seem to recall this topic where feedm3 exposed my contradictions in the OSAS doctrine, and where you demanded that I drink poison to prove the Bible to you. Here's a link to that topic.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...aved-always-saved-part-1-david-stewart-5.html

 

[cfultz3]

lol. just because some who teach osas teaches it falsly des that mean all people who teach osas believe the same way? -- But they who believe in the OSAS doctrine can only come up to those sort of conclusions as they did, seeing that one verse which has been misused led them to conclude that another verse upholds that which was just read.

Do all people who teach we can lose salvation believe we lose it the same way? you all can not even be united in your doctrine, do you expect us to be united? --I do not speak for others, but the only doctrine which matter to me is the doctrine of the Christ. The same Christ which says, 'Come and follow behind me and I will show you the way to the finish line'. This is an active choice. And if I choose not to continue or even had started?

a licentious gospel teaches osas, but falsely. but last I heard, even they do not teach we enter his rest the moment we are saved. No one I have ever heard teach eternal life is a one time event has ever said that. so I have no clue where you get that from! --Is there anything else you need to do to enter your rest?

 

[cfultz3]

why? So you can live the most blessed life God can give you with no fear and distress, and you can be like paul, who calls great tribulation such as being stoned and left for dead, jailed for false testimony and pretense. going from living a life of luxery to a live of poverty and the many other things he spoke of as "momentary light afflictions" and in doing so. You can gain much victory for God, and be a continuous light in the world which draws people who need Jesus to him by your suffering, even though you do not call it suffering because you have entered his rest.

paul entered his rest. many of us will not do this. It does not mean we are not saved, it means we lack faith and trust in our father, because we are either still babes who need fed milk, or just spiritual adolescenses who have yet to grow up.

But yet hope is not reality. Hope is believing for a better tomarrow. And as long as we hope, we shall obtain. And we are given a living Hope so that we do not fade in our believe.

 

[cfultz3]

In response to me having said

Scripture teaches us that we are to love and if we do not love then we have neither the Father nor the Son. So you see, love is a commandment and is therefore something we must do to maintain the fellowship we have with both. Jesus spoke Truth when He said, "If you love me, then keep my commandemnts

The response to that was

scripture teaches us if we do not do this we have NEVER KNOWN THE FATHER. How can someo who has NEVER KNOWN THE FATHER have been saved in the first place? if we do not know God we are not saved, if we are not saved, we can't lose it. you can;t lose what you do not have!
and what are his commands? the law. ain;t it funny how you keep returning to the law when you deny it!

To this, I quote the following from another tread concering 1 Corinthians 2:9

are loving (Present Active Participle) = the active now being performed by you. Listen to what is being said:

If you claim God as your Father, then you would love Jesus (Joh 8:42) and you will show that love by keeping His commandments (Joh 14:15). Now, look what happens when you keep His commandments: the Father will love you and both He and Jesus will come into you and make their ABODE with you (Joh 14:23). That is, the testimony of Christ and God will not become a reality to you unless your love is actively displayed. So, on your part, you must keep His commandments and because you are faithful to Him, they both will come in and that testimony (evidence given) will become your lively hope.

It is when we keep His commandments, even as He kept His Father's commandments and does abide in His love, that we abide in His love (Joh 15:20). Do you hear what Jesus is saying here: He did not brush aside the commandments of God. So, neither should we cry the moral commandments of God are of the Law of Ordinances and claim faith alone. Jesus is saying that your faith must be active, in that, we must obey His commandments (love God and fellows) which sums up the moral character of God written as commandments in order to be loved by the Father and Him.

It is only those who love God, who are known by God (1Co 8:3) It is only those who do not love Jesus that the Holy Spirit inspired it to be written: let him be Anathema Maranatha (1Co 16:22). It is by love that God dwells in us (1Jn 4:12).
How do we show love to God and Jesus? Yes! Obedience to our Lord (Master). But understand that it is not the obedience to the Law which is being spoken about, it is the obedience to Jesus as Lord. His commandments are not grievous. In faith, they are summed up quiet nicely in two words: faith and love.

So, it would seem that by not loving, then we do not get to know God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In response to me having said

The response to that was

To this, I quote the following from another tread concering 1 Corinthians 2:9

So, it would seem that by not loving, then we do not get to know God.

and you would be correct. Except in your assumption that loving is essential to salvation.

John said we who are born of God can not sin, because we have his spirit. He also said whoever sins has never seen God nor has he ever known him.

using this. Those who have Gods spirit WILL love (Although they will not love perfectly) because they have experienced Gods love and they will want to share that love, those who have never loved have never known God.

thus we are back to the begining of the question. does someone lose salvation, or have they never had it?? I would say they never had it.