The False Doctrine of OSAS

[Bookends]

Interpret Scripture that isn't so clear with that which is clear,

1 john 5:13
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

"That you may know "NOW" that you have eternal life"

and..

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

.........................................................................................................................................................

The OT was written for our benefit and our learning...
Romans 15:4For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

When Noah was SEALED UP by the hand of God in the ark, did Noah, his wife, or any of His sons and sons' wives lost? NO, did Noah sin afterwards? Yes...This is a picture of our salvation in Christ Jesus.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit...This is immediate. You don't have to work for it!

Acts 2:40
A Vital Church Grows

40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Question: Wow, 3000 souls saved all at once, and people were added daily. What are the chances of some of these people loosing their salvation? Did any of these people become subtracted from the church? NONE, No where in scripture does it say once added to the church you can become subtracted. We are talking about authentic conversions here, real regenerations, real new creations, not those of a spurious faith here. We are not talking about those who are just interested in the things on the masters table, but who truly love the master and desire from our heart to follow after him.

 

[GreenNnice]

So you don't ever disobey? you have no sin left in your corruptible body? if you say no, then the sacrifice COVERING no long holds you up, then you have get resaved again, and again , and again. But you say it's impossible to come back. If you say Yes, you don't sin anymore, you prove yourself a liar and Christ is not in you!

No, of course, I sin . Long as I have a corruptible body I have sin in me, but...

...it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives within me . I am crucified with Christ, I am, therefore, COVERED by the Blood of Christ for all my sins , past, present, future. That said...

....I can STILL leave this saving faith of my sins covered, for as was stated earlier by cee, reinitin ('do we have salvation yet' thread) , perfectly, in referencing Hebrews 10:26, there no longer remains a covering by our sins, this speaks of someone who WAS SAVED BUT IS, BY CHOICE TO REMAIN IN SIN, NO LONGER SAVED, no longer is there a SACRIFICE for their sins . Willful disobedience-not following the Spirit's lead--leads to death .

Get it, books

 

[cfultz3]

Interpret Scripture that isn't so clear with that which is clear,

1 john 5:13
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. --And the things which are summorized in the twelve verses before verse 13? Believe, love, keep commandments, overcome the workl? Are these not the things which are being spoken about? And as to the end of that verse here....so you might continue to beleive....we are given the Spirit of Hope so that we can continue in hope and our hope is in the Christ.

"That you may know "NOW" that you have eternal life" --There is no NOW in that verse. We are given a lively hope so that we might know that we do have everlasting life. We are not yet dead, so until then, we are given hope. What we do with that hope, determines if we continue in the testimony (evidence of) of the Christ and God, of if we say, 'not of my liken, I choose the flesh'. Just because we are of faith does not mean we loose freewill, just means that salvation is given to those of faith through faith. So, let us continue believing in the Son of God and do not loose patience, seeing that hope delivered is a tree of life to the one who receives that which he had longed for.

and..

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, --But this does not address backsliding (apostating). As long as you remain faithful, you are a child of God. Can one receive salvation when he has turned from his rightousness to live in moral evilness? Has not God said of such an one that he has death awaiting for him and his righteousness will not be remembered?

.........................................................................................................................................................

The OT was written for our benefit and our learning...
Romans 15:4For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. -- ?

When Noah was SEALED UP by the hand of God in the ark, did Noah, his wife, or any of His sons and sons' wives lost? NO, did Noah sin afterwards? Yes...This is a picture of our salvation in Christ Jesus. --- Who says that if you sin even once after having been delivered that you will asap loose salvation? God through His grace is meriful upon His throne to the one seeking forgiveness. But, I am sure you know this too. So, may I ask how do you see following God as a work, seeing that you are implying that if we sin even one in our obedience to God, we are lost? Is not following God agreeing with Him that He knows the way to His rest? This obedience is not of works, it is trusting in Him to lead and not the flesh.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit...This is immediate. You don't have to work for it! -- You do not have to work for the Holy Spirit, but you surely must concur with Him in His guidance, otherwise, the one who is without His correction (tutoring) is FATHERLESS.

Acts 2:40
A Vital Church Grows

40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Question: Wow, 3000 souls saved all at once, and people were added daily. What are the chances of some of these people loosing their salvation? Did any of these people become subtracted from the church? NONE, No where in scripture does it say once added to the church you can become subtracted. We are talking about authentic conversions here, real regenerations, real new creations, not those of a spurious faith here. We are not talking about those who are just interested in the things on the masters table, but who truly love the master and desire from our heart to follow after him. -- Just because there is no mention of any leaving the Church, we cannot assume none did. Besides, in verse 40, a choice was given to save themselves. If they chose to have saved themselves from that generation, they likewise have the same freewill to have unchosen that choice (the dog and swine adage). We cannot use assumption to verify a doctrine, but all the more, apply other Scriptures and then and only then can we speak cerntainly of a matter. God bless you.

 

[cfultz3]

Does anyone wish to answer the question I have asked so that we can move on?

Is there anything else we need to do in our flesh to obtain our rest?

If the answer is no, then what have you done any different than Jesus to obtain your sabbitcal rest in a different manner, seeing that, after He was judged righteous by His deeds, He then took His rest? Did He not learn obedience by the things He underwent? If obedeince to God's leading was not necessary, why then would He have suffered those thing He did through the guidance of the Spirit?

 

[Crossfire]

While I do believe in Eternal Security, I do not agree with or believe that the doctrine called "Once Saved Always Saved" is valid. While there are certain aspects of the doctrine that I would agree with, there are far more aspects that I would have to disagree with.

Unfortunately, far too many use this doctrine to justify licentious behavior when in truth, no where in the Bible does scripture make allowances for sin. Because of such abuse, it's very easy to overlook the legitimate aspects of this doctrine.

 

[clarkthompson]

what is OSAS

 

[cfultz3]

what is OSAS

A doctrine which says that once you are saved then you are always saved. I would give my comments on that, but in fairness I won't

 

[weakness]

And this is different between all the people who teach legalism how??

How about this? Lets change OSAS to eternaL Life in CHrist.

.once saved always saved is not equal to or comparative with eternal life.I have eternal life if I continue in Christ regarless of osas.

they both mean the same.

they do not mean the same

maybe this will help?

One verse misused? I can show many which show eternal life is eternal, never ending. Where does this one verse thing come from??

I mean it is ok for you to misuse Hebrews, and take it out of context?



How about when he said whoever BELIEVES in me will have (not might have) eternal life.

the key word is believes. what if we once beleived but stopped beleiving?

Will never hunger or thirst, never die, Be assured to be ressurected. and he will never leave nor forsake us.

But we can forsake him. Like the angles who left their first estate,among others

We must be teaching two jesus.



The whole new testament teaches us what we have to do to enter his rest. It is a lifelong process,

wrong Paul says "do enter his rest" and we Have been baptized into his death,which is the basis for ceasing from our own works,which leads to rest.

and there are many things we have to do before we can even start to enter his rest.

They entered not in because of unbelief.

I still have along way to go myself. And I would never think I made it, because when we do think this this is when satan comes in in our false thinking that we have made it and takes us out.

Paul says he counts himself as not already attaining but presses toward the mark of the high calling of god

But that's not the subject here. The subject is how is one saved, and when they are saved, is eternal life eternal or conditional.

eternal life is in Christ. if we are out side Christ then we do not participate in it ,although there still is eternal life in Christ.

I really don't understand the continuum of regurgitation .There are hundreds of scriptures demonstrating an attainment and losing that place. Even common day experience teaches this.And if we really love Jesus why be so worried about it? The only thing I see it would accomplish Is an excuse for denominations and individuals to have an excuse for sin or the excuse that this member or that member was never saved.Other than that whats the benefit. Christ already said he would not leave or forsake us if we love him and continue in his word and are disciples.Think allot of this energy should be addressed to living Godly,ministering to people, and being Christ to the world. I think it good to discuss the scripture though.

 

[Bookends]

No, of course, I sin . Long as I have a corruptible body I have sin in me, but...

...it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives within me . I am crucified with Christ, I am, therefore, COVERED by the Blood of Christ for all my sins , past, present, future. That said...

....I can STILL leave this saving faith of my sins covered, for as was stated earlier by cee, reinitin ('do we have salvation yet' thread) , perfectly, in referencing Hebrews 10:26, there no longer remains a covering by our sins, this speaks of someone who WAS SAVED BUT IS, BY CHOICE TO REMAIN IN SIN, NO LONGER SAVED, no longer is there a SACRIFICE for their sins . Willful disobedience-not following the Spirit's lead--leads to death .

Get it, books

No, you don't get it Greenie, Why don't you leave the faith as an experiment? Let me know how far you get! If you are regenerated, consciously you won't be able to do it. A person who is regenerated by God can not enter into willful sin and disobedience all their life without the Lord bring them back into the sheepfold.

Why do you guys keep bring this up? Does it make you feel like a spiritual guru, a spokes person for God, a prophet full of wisdom from the God most high? Trying to show off you piousness to the community of believers here? Frankly I don't get you motive, you seem more concerned about everybody else's belief and spiritual condition then your own.

Come out and say it Greenie, you believe all who believe in OSAS are going to HELL!

 

[Bookends]

I really don't understand the continuum of regurgitation .There are hundreds of scriptures demonstrating an attainment and losing that place. Even common day experience teaches this.And if we really love Jesus why be so worried about it? The only thing I see it would accomplish Is an excuse for denominations and individuals to have an excuse for sin or the excuse that this member or that member was never saved.Other than that whats the benefit. Christ already said he would not leave or forsake us if we love him and continue in his word and are disciples.Think allot of this energy should be addressed to living Godly,ministering to people, and being Christ to the world. I think it good to discuss the scripture though.

It is used to control others. It is used to promote oneself higher then another. It's used by Satan to make weak Christians in doubt their faith and the work of Christ. In other cases it's a genuine belief among genuine believers. The only one that should be concerned about whether or not your in the faith is you (not you in particular), Paul says to examine yourself. There are many well respected scholars who embrace OSAS, and some who don't...Why do you continually hound the one's who believe it? This is not edifying the Church, for some ungodly reason you guys feel it necessary to force your doctrine down our throats.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Does anyone wish to answer the question I have asked so that we can move on?

Is there anything else we need to do in our flesh to obtain our rest?

If the answer is no, then what have you done any different than Jesus to obtain your sabbitcal rest in a different manner, seeing that, after He was judged righteous by His deeds, He then took His rest? Did He not learn obedience by the things He underwent? If obedeince to God's leading was not necessary, why then would He have suffered those thing He did through the guidance of the Spirit?

wow, you just further took the reliability of this thread down. Not only are you false advertizing a false truth about us, But I answered this question and you did not even respond to it. In fact that particular post had no response at all. I wonder why? You could not refute it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what is OSAS

OSAS is a term used by many who reject the fact that Eternal life means eternal life. That eternal justification is not eternal at all. That we are saved based on our works and not by our faith in Christ's work.

It means Once Saved Always Saved. It is a religeous term. I would rather use the term Eternal life. but for some reason they like to throw that in my face

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I really don't understand the continuum of regurgitation .There are hundreds of scriptures demonstrating an attainment and losing that place. Even common day experience teaches this.And if we really love Jesus why be so worried about it? The only thing I see it would accomplish Is an excuse for denominations and individuals to have an excuse for sin or the excuse that this member or that member was never saved.Other than that whats the benefit. Christ already said he would not leave or forsake us if we love him and continue in his word and are disciples.Think allot of this energy should be addressed to living Godly,ministering to people, and being Christ to the world. I think it good to discuss the scripture though.

lol. This is typical. Excuse sin. They teach this, yet they do not understand the sin in their own lives. They seem to think they are more righteous, and deserving of eternal life than others. whereas we hate sin, In us and others, and do what it takes to help each other break the bonds of sin. They want to talk about how onw is saved, and not how one grows in Christ AFTER one is saved.

I understand there are licenteous gospels out there. But the NT is full of condemnations of this false gospel based on the pride of men who do not want to give up there sin. But they reject the fact that scripture is just as condemning of a false gospel of legalism. Stating that somehow all the sin we committed when we were at enmity with God is somehow forgiven by faith. But the sin after is somehow more severe, because it then takes more than faith to have that sin forgiven.

They say OSAS is not the same as eternal life. yet what does God say eternal life is.

1. Eternal means never ending, forever.
2. Jesus said whoever has it will never perish (die)
3. He said they will never hunger, never thirst, or hunger. Never die, And given his assurance he WILL (not might) raise them on the last day (john 6)

yet they want to say forever, and never does not really mean forever and never, and condemn us for believing it does.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is used to control others. It is used to promote oneself higher then another. It's used by Satan to make weak Christians in doubt their faith and the work of Christ. In other cases it's a genuine belief among genuine believers. The only one that should be concerned about whether or not your in the faith is you (not you in particular), Paul says to examine yourself. There are many well respected scholars who embrace OSAS, and some who don't...Why do you continually hound the one's who believe it? This is not edifying the Church, for some ungodly reason you guys feel it necessary to force your doctrine down our throats.

They sound like the pharisee of Christ's time, but they hate it when we call them out on it. Yet man have been fighting this since the begining of time. Legalism is Satans greatest victory. Every religion on earth teaches this works based Gospel of gaining entrance to heaven. True Christianity is the ONLY one which speaks of Gods love and work to save us, And not our work to appease an angry God.

 

[Crossfire]

Come out and say it Greenie, you believe all who believe in OSAS are going to HELL!

I seriously doubt if Green believes that at all. While sound doctrine is indeed important, salvation is not so much what you believe in but rather Who you believe in and the relationship that grows because of such faith. As scripture seems to indicate, one can know a lot about God and never truly know Him, our own sin being the gauge that reflects how much we really know and trust Him.

I know plenty of people who believe in Once Saved Always Saved that I believe are sincere in their faith. However, for every one sincere believer that I know, I can think of a handful of others who believe in this doctrine who insist they are saved despite the fact that they willingly embrace a lifestyle which resembles an episode of Jerry Springer. It is these people who are indeed headed for hell because they place more trust in religious tradition than in Christ Himself.

1 John 3: 1-10 (NIV)

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.


Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.


Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

 

[rauleetoe]

While I do believe in Eternal Security, I do not agree with or believe that the doctrine called "Once Saved Always Saved" is valid. While there are certain aspects of the doctrine that I would agree with, there are far more aspects that I would have to disagree with.

Unfortunately, far too many use this doctrine to justify licentious behavior when in truth, no where in the Bible does scripture make allowances for sin. Because of such abuse, it's very easy to overlook the legitimate aspects of this doctrine.

Amen..i could not say it better..this does not mean 'works based' It means sin is really an issue, which the grace only proponents do not believe/adhere to. If sin was not an issue, then why did Jesus have to die on the cross..if God sustains you with no part of your own(this is not meaning you earn salvation) without human responsibility..then what does it matter, just keep on..go on sinning!
I do believe many proponents of OSAS wish to eliminate any responsibility on their part to even try to serve God with any effort, and because they want to sin and plan on sinning..holy and right living is not easy. I guess believing in OSAS aka God's got me gospel is much easier to do than acutally consecrating oneself unto God and trying to do right.

yet romans 11:22 clearly states if you 'continue' in his goodness, you will not be cut off..

hmm..even john 15 says abide in me, and you will bear much fruit..and what happened to them who didnt abide? they were cut off and thrown in the fire..
hebrews 3:8 says..do not harden your hearts..(hmm, so much for not being able to harden ones heart) and then move onto verse 14, we are partakers of Christ..IF we hold onto our confidence until the end..
Until the end means until the end, i take that literally..that means the security one has is if they remain in Christ..not by simply having a belief system,belonging to the 'right church' or having 'good theology' as i have heard some say..
you have better be holding onto your confidence until the end..or you will be in for a big surprise

 

[Crossfire]

lol. This is typical. Excuse sin. They teach this, yet they do not understand the sin in their own lives. They seem to think they are more righteous, and deserving of eternal life than others. whereas we hate sin, In us and others, and do what it takes to help each other break the bonds of sin. They want to talk about how onw is saved, and not how one grows in Christ AFTER one is saved.

I understand there are licenteous gospels out there. But the NT is full of condemnations of this false gospel based on the pride of men who do not want to give up there sin. But they reject the fact that scripture is just as condemning of a false gospel of legalism. Stating that somehow all the sin we committed when we were at enmity with God is somehow forgiven by faith. But the sin after is somehow more severe, because it then takes more than faith to have that sin forgiven.

They say OSAS is not the same as eternal life. yet what does God say eternal life is.

1. Eternal means never ending, forever.
2. Jesus said whoever has it will never perish (die)
3. He said they will never hunger, never thirst, or hunger. Never die, And given his assurance he WILL (not might) raise them on the last day (john 6)

yet they want to say forever, and never does not really mean forever and never, and condemn us for believing it does.

That's the problem. Most people think this is a sin issue and it's not. It's a relationship issue. Our sin is nothing more than a reflection, an outward expression of our inward state. Scripture plainly states that one who walks with in Spirit need not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Our sin is nothing more than the evidence of our failure to walk with God on a daily basis, our lack of trust in Him to deliver us from our temptations in our moment of weakness.

Personally, I'm tired of talking about sin. I would love to fellowship with people who are mature enough in the faith to understand the biblical principle that I have shared above. However, because of licentiousness in the church, the "sin debate" continues on simply because people are concentrating on sin itself instead of the means in which God has provided to overcome it in our lives through abiding in Him on a consistant basis.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen..i could not say it better..this does not mean 'works based' It means sin is really an issue, which the grace only proponents do not believe/adhere to. If sin was not an issue, then why did Jesus have to die on the cross..if God sustains you with no part of your own(this is not meaning you earn salvation) without human responsibility..then what does it matter, just keep on..go on sinning!
I do believe many proponents of OSAS wish to eliminate any responsibility on their part to even try to serve God with any effort, and because they want to sin and plan on sinning..holy and right living is not easy. I guess believing in OSAS aka God's got me gospel is much easier to do than acutally consecrating oneself unto God and trying to do right.

yet romans 11:22 clearly states if you 'continue' in his goodness, you will not be cut off..

hmm..even john 15 says abide in me, and you will bear much fruit..and what happened to them who didnt abide? they were cut off and thrown in the fire..
hebrews 3:8 says..do not harden your hearts..(hmm, so much for not being able to harden ones heart) and then move onto verse 14, we are partakers of Christ..IF we hold onto our confidence until the end..
Until the end means until the end, i take that literally..that means the security one has is if they remain in Christ..not by simply having a belief system,belonging to the 'right church' or having 'good theology' as i have heard some say..
you have better be holding onto your confidence until the end..or you will be in for a big surprise

The penalty of sin is death. CHrist died. How many times do we have to crucify Christ to forgive the sins we commit after we are saved.

The problem is not that we want to make sin ok. The problem is that those who claim we have to be righteous do not see their own sin. How many times do you chose self over God on a daily basis? do you not know this is just as bad as commiting murder in Gods eyes.

Lets say you do this 10 times per day, do you understand this is ten death penalties against you? How can you ever make it up. Take that to a year. that 10 times 365 days or 3650 sins a year, add that up to over a few years. so tell us, how righteous can you be? why do you think you are more righteous than anyone else. and more deserving of eternal life. and any less in need of the blood of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's the problem. Most people think this is a sin issue and it's not. It's a relationship issue. Our sin is nothing more than a reflection, an outward expression of our inward state. Scripture plainly states that one who walks with in Spirit need not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Our sin is nothing more than the evidence of our failure to walk with God on a daily basis, our lack of trust in Him to deliver us from our temptations in our moment of weakness.

Personally, I'm tired of talking about sin. I would love to fellowship with people who are mature enough in the faith to understand the biblical principle that I have shared above. However, because of licentiousness in the church, the "sin debate" continues on simply because people are concentrating on sin itself instead of the means in which God has provided to overcome it in our lives through abiding in Him on a consistant basis.

Yet licenteousness will not be in heaven any more than the legalist will be.

This is the sad issue, the legalist wants to call me licenteous, saying I am excusing sin, yet the licentious states I am a legalist, because I confront them with their sin as we are commanded.

Both are dangerous issues, and lead people straight to hell, thus they must be fought with furver

 

[rauleetoe]

The penalty of sin is death. CHrist died. How many times do we have to crucify Christ to forgive the sins we commit after we are saved.

The problem is not that we want to make sin ok. The problem is that those who claim we have to be righteous do not see their own sin. How many times do you chose self over God on a daily basis? do you not know this is just as bad as commiting murder in Gods eyes.

Lets say you do this 10 times per day, do you understand this is ten death penalties against you? How can you ever make it up. Take that to a year. that 10 times 365 days or 3650 sins a year, add that up to over a few years. so tell us, how righteous can you be? why do you think you are more righteous than anyone else. and more deserving of eternal life. and any less in need of the blood of Christ.

Ok, so just because you live in this flesh capsule we call a body..and have a sin 'tendency' does this mean we give up and throw up our hands in defeat..or do we believe what phillipians 2 says to work out our salvation with fear and trembling,because God helps us to do so..and if we seek his help he can help us and live a holy life. I am trying to understand what your solution to the problem is then..please reiterate.