The False Doctrine of OSAS

[cfultz3]

But my question goes to action.
Because that's what servants and slaves do, they work for a living
If one continues to fail at a certain thing; would that not mean they are unfruitful
servants?

It is His judgment when one becomes an unfaithful servant. It is the intent of the heart which is judged not the failure. As long as God sees the effort, is He not merciful? How many times can one fall and then ask for forgivness? 7? Infinity? God knows the heart and will not be fooled. The righteous seeks His grace and receives it. The unfaithful servant, seeks forgivness only to excuse the instance of a sin.

 

[cfultz3]

I have to go and take my Mom shopping and will be back shortly.

Please Rick, let us continue this. It is most fruitful.

 

[RickShafer]

So if someone does all they can to stop a certain failure - (Let's say it is spiritual pride)
Let's draw an illustration: a pastor of a large church has been given the gift of explaining and extrapulating
the words the The Book as if he were Moses himself...........and as the tongues of angels the word flowed so
beautifully and effortlessly off his tongue........and masses wept at his sermons and rushed the alter even
before he gave the alter call.......(And so his ministry went, soaring ever higher and higher.....)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- -- - - - -
But when he was home, and when he was alone with his thoughts; he would muse on himself and the great lyrical
ability he had.........and he would begin to get lifted up in his own eyes.........
But as he would he recognized it every time and felt badly, as a sort of self-hatred for ever even thinking such
a thing.......(and satan seeing the self loathing he(satan) could aquire in the man ; he sent ever more demons to harass the preacher
..................as time passed the attacks of superiority got stronger, and his self loathing got more urgent.
Until finally the preacher broke, and completely backslid into gross sin.......because he could never SEE that the ideas of self lifting up in his
head were not from him at all......but from evil spirits who tormented him.
He rejects himself as being a hypocrite.......and he rejects his calling.
He ends up drinking himself to death, because he never understood those thoughts of self-righteousness were not originating from his spirit but
from evil spirits.
Does He Go To Heaven?

 

[RickShafer]

!EVERYBODY! GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU
Please let Chris come back and continue this thread I have going with him uninterrupted.

Thank You.

 

[cfultz3]

So if someone does all they can to stop a certain failure - (Let's say it is spiritual pride)
Let's draw an illustration: a pastor of a large church has been given the gift of explaining and extrapulating
the words the The Book as if he were Moses himself...........and as the tongues of angels the word flowed so
beautifully and effortlessly off his tongue........and masses wept at his sermons and rushed the alter even
before he gave the alter call.......(And so his ministry went, soaring ever higher and higher.....)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- -- - - - -
But when he was home, and when he was alone with his thoughts; he would muse on himself and the great lyrical
ability he had.........and he would begin to get lifted up in his own eyes.........
But as he would he recognized it every time and felt badly, as a sort of self-hatred for ever even thinking such
a thing.......(and satan seeing the self loathing he(satan) could aquire in the man ; he sent ever more demons to harass the preacher
..................as time passed the attacks of superiority got stronger, and his self loathing got more urgent.
Until finally the preacher broke, and completely backslid into gross sin.......because he could never SEE that the ideas of self lifting up in his
head were not from him at all......but from evil spirits who tormented him.
He rejects himself as being a hypocrite.......and he rejects his calling.
He ends up drinking himself to death, because he never understood those thoughts of self-righteousness were not originating from his spirit but
from evil spirits.
Does He Go To Heaven?

No.

Has he not forsaken his righteousness. And has it not been said that such an one who abandons his righteousness, that God Himself shall place a stumblingblock before him so that he may fall. In the iniquity of his iniquity, in the sinfulness of his sin, he shall die.

We humans spiritually cannot overcome sin unless we are led away from it by a willingness to be led away from it. It is only when we give Him the authority to lead that the sin we so struggle with becomes a thing of the past. I give an understanding to all: He gives a way out of your sins, turn your eyes to Him and let Him be the Light of your eyes:

Luk 11:34The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single (looking one way, not unfolded back and forth), thy whole body also is full of light; but whenthine eyeis evil, thy body alsoisfull of darkness.

 

[RickShafer]

So there it is.
A person who dies in their sins goes to hell.

 

[RickShafer]

But what makes his sins any worse than the preacher who lives in his spiritual pride?
Would he not go to hell also?

 

[RickShafer]

I don't mean to bombard you with posts....
But the point is ......neither pastor knew what caused their fall.
One is convinced the demonic attacks are his own evil, so he punished himself;
the other agrees with the demons, and glories in the pride manifested.

Are both equally guilty?

 

[GreenNnice]

No.

Has he not forsaken his righteousness. And has it not been said that such an one who abandons his righteousness, that God Himself shall place a stumblingblock before him so that he may fall. In the iniquity of his iniquity, in the sinfulness of his sin, he shall die.

We humans spiritually cannot overcome sin unless we are led away from it by a willingness to be led away from it. It is only when we give Him the authority to lead that the sin we so struggle with becomes a thing of the past. I give an understanding to all: He gives a way out of your sins, turn your eyes to Him and let Him be the Light of your eyes:

Luk 11:34The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single (looking one way, not unfolded back and forth), thy whole body also is full of light; but whenthine eyeis evil, thy body alsoisfull of darkness.

Yes!

And, LET YOUR SIN FULLY GO, obedience to Him, He's forgot it, you, as I told eg in another post, it is YOU STILL who proves unfaithful by still thinking about sin, sinning, going to do ot again, DON'T! , AND, YOU WILL BE LED TO 'My Rest.' Heb. 3

 

[feedm3]

So if someone does all they can to stop a certain failure - (Let's say it is spiritual pride)
Let's draw an illustration: a pastor of a large church has been given the gift of explaining and extrapulating
the words the The Book as if he were Moses himself...........and as the tongues of angels the word flowed so
beautifully and effortlessly off his tongue........and masses wept at his sermons and rushed the alter even
before he gave the alter call.......(And so his ministry went, soaring ever higher and higher.....)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- -- - - - -
But when he was home, and when he was alone with his thoughts; he would muse on himself and the great lyrical
ability he had.........and he would begin to get lifted up in his own eyes.........
But as he would he recognized it every time and felt badly, as a sort of self-hatred for ever even thinking such
a thing.......(and satan seeing the self loathing he(satan) could aquire in the man ; he sent ever more demons to harass the preacher
..................as time passed the attacks of superiority got stronger, and his self loathing got more urgent.
Until finally the preacher broke, and completely backslid into gross sin.......because he could never SEE that the ideas of self lifting up in his
head were not from him at all......but from evil spirits who tormented him.
He rejects himself as being a hypocrite.......and he rejects his calling.
He ends up drinking himself to death, because he never understood those thoughts of self-righteousness were not originating from his spirit but
from evil spirits.
Does He Go To Heaven?

None of us are the final judge in the matter, how can we say if he would or would not. We can say, according the scripture, one must repent of sins, and willful sinning will cause the sacrifice of Christ to not apply to us. Heb 10:26, Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38

So knowing these warnings, I would not say he will be saved. That is just a much of a judgement as saying he will not.

However, this whole illustration is pointless. These type of senerio questions to not change what the Bible says, and what we can read one bit. One who thinks these up is only trying to find a loophole around what God has said.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't mean to bombard you with posts....
But the point is ......neither pastor knew what caused their fall.
One is convinced the demonic attacks are his own evil, so he punished himself;
the other agrees with the demons, and glories in the pride manifested.

Are both equally guilty?

they can't comprehend what is going here.

1. If they are condemned because of these sins, then they are condemned by the law. Because it was the law which said you shall not drink in excess, and not to put yourself above God. Although they reject they preach law.

2. It is their belief which took the man down. If the man was under grace he would not have hidden his sin of pride from others, and would have looked for help, not only from God but from a discipler. Then he would have realized his thoughts were not from himself but from his flesh and or satan. And overcome his sin.

3. I also see they have not admitted both would go to hell, because both were in sin (if they were right at all)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes!

And, LET YOUR SIN FULLY GO, obedience to Him, He's forgot it, you, as I told eg in another post, it is YOU STILL who proves unfaithful by still thinking about sin, sinning, going to do ot again, DON'T! , AND, YOU WILL BE LED TO 'My Rest.' Heb. 3

yes, if your under grace we can do this.

but if we are under law, like your teaching we can't do it.

plus, how can we not know the guy, once he left, was not a prodigal son who died before he was able to return?? We can't

 

[eternally-gratefull]

None of us are the final judge in the matter, how can we say if he would or would not. We can say, according the scripture, one must repent of sins, and willful sinning will cause the sacrifice of Christ to not apply to us. Heb 10:26, Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38

So knowing these warnings, I would not say he will be saved. That is just a much of a judgement as saying he will not.

However, this whole illustration is pointless. These type of senerio questions to not change what the Bible says, and what we can read one bit. One who thinks these up is only trying to find a loophole around what God has said.

or maybe they expose the truth. And show how Grace saves, and legalism stops salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If his desires is to be a son of God and he walks where the Lord leads, then the Lord, our most faithul High Priest, will complete the work in him which He started.


But yet, if he refuses grooming by Him, if he only produces thorns and briers, then is he not one left to be burned up by the dessert's heat?

You just contradicted yourself.

in one point you said GOD WILL COMPLETE WHAT HE STARTED.

In the next, you basically said he MAY NOT COMPLETE what he started.

which is it?? Is God powerful enough to complete it or not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is His judgment when one becomes an unfaithful servant. It is the intent of the heart which is judged not the failure. As long as God sees the effort, is He not merciful? How many times can one fall and then ask for forgivness? 7? Infinity? God knows the heart and will not be fooled. The righteous seeks His grace and receives it. The unfaithful servant, seeks forgivness only to excuse the instance of a sin.

What you say is correct.

The righteous will

The unfaithfull will but only from selfish ambition.

One had faith, one did not.

Which proves one was saved by faith.

one was never saved, due to lack of faith.

How can one lose salvation when they never had it?? (how many times do I have to ask this??)

 

[cfultz3]

None of us are the final judge in the matter, how can we say if he would or would not. We can say, according the scripture, one must repent of sins, and willful sinning will cause the sacrifice of Christ to not apply to us. Heb 10:26, Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38

So knowing these warnings, I would not say he will be saved. That is just a much of a judgement as saying he will not.

However, this whole illustration is pointless. These type of senerio questions to not change what the Bible says, and what we can read one bit. One who thinks these up is only trying to find a loophole around what God has said.

My Brother Freedm#,

Such questionings are good. By such, one is able to ponder upon his faith and in the end, if the faith is true, his faith is more concrete. Just about 2 days ago, there was a thread called 'indoctrinated' which asked questions about 'what if'. We should all go there and answer those questions and by doing so, we will have an answering needed for our faith.

 

[GreenNnice]

QUIT IT!

yes, if your under grace we can do this.

but if we are under law, like your teaching we can't do it.

plus, how can we not know the guy, once he left, was not a prodigal son who died before he was able to return?? We can't

Eg, YOU are making God the way He is (putting Him in a box), not me.

I pray you can see your Father in Heaven is MUCH bigger than your 'grace' can imagine.

I pray you quit putting God in your OSAS doctrine boxes, this might sound a little selfish sounding but not only do you abuse God, YOU abuse yourself Not judging, it's the Truth.

God is FAITHFUL !!!! You don't need to say that He cannot be unfaithful. Who died and made you God? QUIT speaking for Him

This is sad, indeed, when people do things that are boxing up our great powerful God, which, LOL, not so coincidentally, my prophet's words for my 'Signature' quite clearly say that we should shut up and just quit it, quit condemning people they don't have grace, sigh, you sure don't get that with me But, you will. I can bring up past quotes too of yours about saying you are NOT AT REST yet.

That you are still running the race. I am running the race too, eg, but it's a different 'race,' it's one that is IN HIS REST
\
God bless you, brother, and, this is the scary thing, your fineline doctrinal issues have you this close to being able to NESTLE up to the Father....


...as the ONLY thing seperating you from being able to be nigh to Him, to see His shining face, not in person, of course, none have seen God, He's too glorious, all glorious, rather. But, yeah, figuratively speaking, ONE THING stopping you from intimately fully understanding God's grace...

....YOU have put God in a box.

Just quit it, eg. your saying 'I can do whatever I want, God is still faithful, God cannot be unfaithful.' It is hurting you and it is wholly killing God . Your way of Loving God doesn't even have airholes in the box. I am being serious with this example, of course, God can breath without airholes, we can't but He can Eg, it's NOT working, God is STILL God of your life, despite putting Him in a box. Quit it. Just quit it. And, for your own sake, quit saying I am not justified. I said 'SO am I " to you yesterday when you said you were justified by grace and Jesus dying on the cross. Do I REALLY need to say anymore....


...quit it, I don't like being in a box either, eg

 

[feedm3]

My Brother Freedm#,

Such questionings are good. By such, one is able to ponder upon his faith and in the end, if the faith is true, his faith is more concrete. Just about 2 days ago, there was a thread called 'indoctrinated' which asked questions about 'what if'. We should all go there and answer those questions and by doing so, we will have an answering needed for our faith.

Maybe, youre right. But most of the time people do it just trying to confuse what is stated. Maybe that is what he was not doing, it seemed like it.

 

[feedm3]

or maybe they expose the truth. And show how Grace saves, and legalism stops salvation.

Hmmmm, what you call legalism exposes licentiousness, and it's watering-down God's word, fighting for sin. I take legalism name calling over that any day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: QUIT IT!

Eg, YOU are making God the way He is (putting Him in a box), not me.

No you are. There is no box in grace, because it is all about God and not us.

I pray you can see your Father in Heaven is MUCH bigger than your 'grace' can imagine.

1. It is not my grace, it is HIS GRACE.

2. I pray you see Gods grace is bigger than you imagine, and you are smaller than you imagine.

I pray you quit putting God in your OSAS doctrine boxes, this might sound a little selfish sounding but not only do you abuse God, YOU abuse yourself Not judging, it's the Truth.

I pray you stop calling God a liar. And when God says ALL who believe will have eternal life, and he means it. That when he says all who believe will not die (the second death) he means it. When he says we are saved by faith apart from works of any kind so we may not boast of anything, He means it.

I am not abusing myself. God saved me inspite of myself. Your abusing God by placing yourself in the same level of God saying you can save yourself. I mean why did God come to us and die if his death would mean nothing?

OSAS does not abuse God or self. People who abuse OSAS to their own Licentiousness and legalists like you abuse God and yourselves, because your both stuck in your pride, and refuse to give it all to God

God is FAITHFUL !!!! You don't need to say that He cannot be unfaithful. Who died and made you God? QUIT speaking for Him

I am not saying he will be unfaithful, You are, and you can;t even see it.

This is sad, indeed, when people do things that are boxing up our great powerful God, which, LOL, not so coincidentally, my prophet's words for my 'Signature' quite clearly say that we should shut up and just quit it, quit condemning people they don't have grace, sigh, you sure don't get that with me But, you will. I can bring up past quotes too of yours about saying you are NOT AT REST yet.

Who is boxing God up? Your the one saying he can not finish what he started till the end, and we can fall and lose out in the salvation he gave us. Not me.

when are you going to wake up and realise this?

That you are still running the race. I am running the race too, eg, but it's a different 'race,' it's one that is IN HIS REST

No, I am in his rest, because I know where I will be for eternity. Your the one still looking for rest, because you can;t know where you will spend eternity. because you can;t know how you will act a year from now, let alone 10 years from now. Your have to have faith you will not fail, You will not fall. Your faith and hope rests in you and not God.

God bless you, brother, and, this is the scary thing, your fineline doctrinal issues have you this close to being able to NESTLE up to the Father....

I nestle to my abba father, because I have not been given a spirit of fear, but of adoption. I know my adoption will stand because it is based on God, you can not say this, because your adoption will only stand if you do not fall. Again, your hope is in you not God

...as the ONLY thing seperating you from being able to be nigh to Him, to see His shining face, not in person, of course, none have seen God, He's too glorious, all glorious, rather. But, yeah, figuratively speaking, ONE THING stopping you from intimately fully understanding God's grace...

....YOU have put God in a box.

And your blind

Just quit it, eg. your saying 'I can do whatever I want, God is still faithful, God cannot be unfaithful.' It is hurting you and it is wholly killing God .

1. If you want to sin and suffer the dire consequences that is up to you. As for me and my household, we will serve the lord.

2, Yeah I did kill God, He died so I can be set free, and be adopted by him. I only pray you soon realise you kiiled God also, as did we all

Your way of Loving God doesn't even have airholes in the box. I am being serious with this example, of course, God can breath without airholes, we can't but He can Eg, it's NOT working, God is STILL God of your life, despite putting Him in a box. Quit it. Just quit it. And, for your own sake, quit saying I am not justified. I said 'SO am I " to you yesterday when you said you were justified by grace and Jesus dying on the cross. Do I REALLY need to say anymore....


...quit it, I don't like being in a box either, eg

You quit it, You stop depending on yourself and lay it at the feet of Christ, He loves you, He died so you could be set free and be born again into his family. So stop working to try to earn it, for you will utterly fail to live up to the lofty expectation you place on yourself, let alone the expectaion God put on all of us, Which is why we will need grace until the day of our redemption. when our body of sin is destroyed, and we have a new body and live every day in the presence of God.