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A
cfultz3:who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.
Well you do this if you want. I dont run in gangs. And there are people here i love
and if i disagree with them sobeit...that doesnt mean i write them off.
EG and i i think totally disagree with eschatology and in rest of scripture im hoping to learn
from him as i am with many others.
Likewise if someone likes my post...that doesnt mean they agree with anything else i say
or should they..unless of coarse they feel its true to the word.
By the way you may have made that mistake...someone who you agreed with in this op
you thumbs up and even went to battle with me when i clipped him for totally wrong stuff
id watch that kind of stuff...i call those gangs. What he said was a lie and it totally
dishonored and misrepresented God.
Well you do this if you want. I dont run in gangs. And there are people here i love
and if i disagree with them sobeit...that doesnt mean i write them off.
EG and i i think totally disagree with eschatology and in rest of scripture im hoping to learn
from him as i am with many others.
Likewise if someone likes my post...that doesnt mean they agree with anything else i say
or should they..unless of coarse they feel its true to the word.
By the way you may have made that mistake...someone who you agreed with in this op
you thumbs up and even went to battle with me when i clipped him for totally wrong stuff
id watch that kind of stuff...i call those gangs. What he said was a lie and it totally
dishonored and misrepresented God.
C
Originally Posted by cfultz3
convince me of what? that the Lord i serve will not help me? -- Who said that the Lord will not HELP you?
that if i abide in Him and His words abide in me that i wont have fruit? -- So we all better start producing fruit or be like the unproductive servant who take what he had taken away from him and thrown in out darkness (give over to the tormentors).dont think you understand the tormenters, but anyway...we cant produce fruit...we only bear it. Does a branch produce or carry fruit? Even to say bear, it means to carry fruit.....so we carry our fruit with us and must show the Harvester our fruits. Are have we yet fogotten how the unfruitful tree is cut down and burnt?
Or that if im faithful..i still should worry? -- if you produice fruit than no. But if not then yeslike i said you dont understand you CANT rpoduce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. But yet, you say, I think you do, that we produce fruit of righteousness with the Spirit. Either way, bear or produce, we will have been rewarded on our fruits. So, how then is rewarded? The Spirit who leads to good works or the one who hearkened to Him and produced those fruits. Would it not be illogical to say that God will reward Himself for the work He did through you*?
Is He Lord? Didnt He make promises? --- Did not God make promises to the Hebrews and some did not hearken to His Voice and thus did not receive His promises. Simple faith, if you become disobedient, rest in the assurance that God will remain faithful.Of coarse they were disobedient...they didnt believe. you know that.If they had they would have been obedient.. Do we not know that almost all who came out of Egypt were disobedient and they learned obedeince by the things they suffered, in much the same way our Lord learned His: by hearkening to Him?
Did He ask me to trust Him? Do you? YES! then no worries. If you do not trust Him in His leading you? Then what? As a broken record, yes I trust Him to lead me home and I trust that what He has said is True. Why not simply accept one can fall.Well i know people will fall, never said they couldnt..done it myself. But Guess whose arms i fell in when i did? And praise God you decided to repent and return to His open arms. But that still does not answer for those who decide a rebellious life is still better and remain under the Spirit's coniviction. Have we not heard that the Lord is longsuffering. It does not stay that He is eternally patient, but LONGsuffering?
Cast all my cares on Him? Amen.
There are hundreds of verses people could have brought to your thread. -- and yet there are still thousands more which they ignore.I just think you have the wrong attitude and perspective...the ones youve contended with do not ignore any scripture they have been wonderful faithfull upright believers that didnt like your position and how you are dealing with scripture. Most of them have walked many many years with the Lord and have deep understanding of all the scripture you provided and seen your point and understand your sentament. Really? You mean all those scriptures which I presented was not contented with? So if they live a righteous and upright life and I tell others about the pitfalls on the racetrack, they do not like that I point to Jesus' Spirit as the way to walk that same path? But yet, if they remain faithful, they shall be led into salvation.
Only thing i see in what you teach is that ill fall away. -- yes there is that possbility, otherwise the God would not have said so.like i said i have, but thats not the end of the story. But what of the ones who believe no matter what one does, he cannot loose salvation? So it is wrong to tell them the words of God that if one who is righteous and leaves his righteousness to live an disobedient life will not have his righteousness remembered, but in the iniquity of his iniquity and the sinfulness of his sin, HE SHALL DIE? Are we to ingnore God over one verse of what Paul said, where is the agreement of Scripture of that?
Or because
I trust Him more than me...even tho the word says a man who trusts in himself is a fool.
I shouldnt have hope. -- Hope is only given to those who trust. So, if one falls and remains there, does he still trust?Not according to my experience, i guess when He pulled me into His arms i could have jacked Him in the face...but it just didnt come into my mind.. It is when you repented and turned back towards Him as your light that He pulled you into His arm. God did not to offend us, we offened into in whatever rebellion we chose to leave Him in. So, who repent and who was still there to accept you in His arms?
Im not against anyone warning people with truth. Im not a grace only teacher. -- Hmmm
Youd like to think so. -- who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.Oh im sure everyone here that opposed you have rebuked many folks as often as it was necessary..but maybe with words seasoned with grace and always with the intent to restore...unless it was time to bid them farewell till they repented. And surely they all believe in total obedience to bad you never thought to ask. Reread...what you say is not the point I am making. I do not have to ask, I read what you say. So perhaps????????????????????
But then you may think since i have my trust in the Lord
its because im wallowing in sin. -- that would be between you and God.But I will say that God's Spirit is not to be denied His leading. I trust my Lord and I have salvation. You say you have trust in Him, and accordingly, you have salvation. But never forget, that the reward is at the end of the race, not in the middle where there is pitfalls.Im not forgetting the race isnt over. But the race isnt with
God on the sidelines waiting for me to fall so He can laugh and condemn me...He died for me..He wants to purify me. Do you know why job didnt pack it in? maybe not. OH but.......................He runs before us to show us the pitfalls and to give us directions to go around them......That is why He is called our faith's Forerunner.
But thats not even logical although its been all over
these threads.
convince me of what? that the Lord i serve will not help me? -- Who said that the Lord will not HELP you?
that if i abide in Him and His words abide in me that i wont have fruit? -- So we all better start producing fruit or be like the unproductive servant who take what he had taken away from him and thrown in out darkness (give over to the tormentors).dont think you understand the tormenters, but anyway...we cant produce fruit...we only bear it. Does a branch produce or carry fruit? Even to say bear, it means to carry fruit.....so we carry our fruit with us and must show the Harvester our fruits. Are have we yet fogotten how the unfruitful tree is cut down and burnt?
Or that if im faithful..i still should worry? -- if you produice fruit than no. But if not then yeslike i said you dont understand you CANT rpoduce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. But yet, you say, I think you do, that we produce fruit of righteousness with the Spirit. Either way, bear or produce, we will have been rewarded on our fruits. So, how then is rewarded? The Spirit who leads to good works or the one who hearkened to Him and produced those fruits. Would it not be illogical to say that God will reward Himself for the work He did through you*?
Is He Lord? Didnt He make promises? --- Did not God make promises to the Hebrews and some did not hearken to His Voice and thus did not receive His promises. Simple faith, if you become disobedient, rest in the assurance that God will remain faithful.Of coarse they were disobedient...they didnt believe. you know that.If they had they would have been obedient.. Do we not know that almost all who came out of Egypt were disobedient and they learned obedeince by the things they suffered, in much the same way our Lord learned His: by hearkening to Him?
Did He ask me to trust Him? Do you? YES! then no worries. If you do not trust Him in His leading you? Then what? As a broken record, yes I trust Him to lead me home and I trust that what He has said is True. Why not simply accept one can fall.Well i know people will fall, never said they couldnt..done it myself. But Guess whose arms i fell in when i did? And praise God you decided to repent and return to His open arms. But that still does not answer for those who decide a rebellious life is still better and remain under the Spirit's coniviction. Have we not heard that the Lord is longsuffering. It does not stay that He is eternally patient, but LONGsuffering?
Cast all my cares on Him? Amen.
There are hundreds of verses people could have brought to your thread. -- and yet there are still thousands more which they ignore.I just think you have the wrong attitude and perspective...the ones youve contended with do not ignore any scripture they have been wonderful faithfull upright believers that didnt like your position and how you are dealing with scripture. Most of them have walked many many years with the Lord and have deep understanding of all the scripture you provided and seen your point and understand your sentament. Really? You mean all those scriptures which I presented was not contented with? So if they live a righteous and upright life and I tell others about the pitfalls on the racetrack, they do not like that I point to Jesus' Spirit as the way to walk that same path? But yet, if they remain faithful, they shall be led into salvation.
Only thing i see in what you teach is that ill fall away. -- yes there is that possbility, otherwise the God would not have said so.like i said i have, but thats not the end of the story. But what of the ones who believe no matter what one does, he cannot loose salvation? So it is wrong to tell them the words of God that if one who is righteous and leaves his righteousness to live an disobedient life will not have his righteousness remembered, but in the iniquity of his iniquity and the sinfulness of his sin, HE SHALL DIE? Are we to ingnore God over one verse of what Paul said, where is the agreement of Scripture of that?
Or because
I trust Him more than me...even tho the word says a man who trusts in himself is a fool.
I shouldnt have hope. -- Hope is only given to those who trust. So, if one falls and remains there, does he still trust?Not according to my experience, i guess when He pulled me into His arms i could have jacked Him in the face...but it just didnt come into my mind.. It is when you repented and turned back towards Him as your light that He pulled you into His arm. God did not to offend us, we offened into in whatever rebellion we chose to leave Him in. So, who repent and who was still there to accept you in His arms?
Im not against anyone warning people with truth. Im not a grace only teacher. -- Hmmm
Youd like to think so. -- who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.Oh im sure everyone here that opposed you have rebuked many folks as often as it was necessary..but maybe with words seasoned with grace and always with the intent to restore...unless it was time to bid them farewell till they repented. And surely they all believe in total obedience to bad you never thought to ask. Reread...what you say is not the point I am making. I do not have to ask, I read what you say. So perhaps????????????????????
But then you may think since i have my trust in the Lord
its because im wallowing in sin. -- that would be between you and God.But I will say that God's Spirit is not to be denied His leading. I trust my Lord and I have salvation. You say you have trust in Him, and accordingly, you have salvation. But never forget, that the reward is at the end of the race, not in the middle where there is pitfalls.Im not forgetting the race isnt over. But the race isnt with
God on the sidelines waiting for me to fall so He can laugh and condemn me...He died for me..He wants to purify me. Do you know why job didnt pack it in? maybe not. OH but.......................He runs before us to show us the pitfalls and to give us directions to go around them......That is why He is called our faith's Forerunner.
But thats not even logical although its been all over
these threads.
M
Who said they are fables?
If you read them in context (the entire books would be a good idea), you'll understand who they were spoken about, and what they mean.
Every babe in Christ who does not attend a good church and Bible study under seasoned teachers (or at least refer to commentators who actually read the languages and understands the period; axioms; and Old Testament references) gets hold of Lexicons and goes to town on the parables.
Find out who that unprofitable servant thought Jesus was.
I don't know a single Christian it applies to.
Goodnight.
If you read them in context (the entire books would be a good idea), you'll understand who they were spoken about, and what they mean.
Every babe in Christ who does not attend a good church and Bible study under seasoned teachers (or at least refer to commentators who actually read the languages and understands the period; axioms; and Old Testament references) gets hold of Lexicons and goes to town on the parables.
Find out who that unprofitable servant thought Jesus was.
I don't know a single Christian it applies to.
Goodnight.
C
]Where is He leading you? -- To God's rest as He did with the Hebrews. But to deny the leading of the Spirit is the same as those who fell because of disbelieve. Take that anyway you wish.
Are you getting tired yet from following all the subjectivity? Are you getting tired of calling Jesus' Spirit an it. Are you tured of mocking God? And yet, those of the OSAS will agree with you in this mockery of God, have they yet admonished you of this vile mockery? It is true what has been written that the one who is without the coniction (tutoring) of the Spirit is fatherless. Are you being led?
This would be a good time to discover what it means to be LED by the Spirit. -- Yes it would be
Ever been under arrest? Honestly, no. But even this we can learn of what happens to one who is disobedient to authority. If you learn from your correction (Holy Spirit) you will not return to what made you to be corrected. If you do not and get into more trouble, you get more correction time.........over and over....but if you do not learn the correct path and commit the ultimate crime (kill (your relationship with God)) you face death (peneality)
Are you getting tired yet from following all the subjectivity? Are you getting tired of calling Jesus' Spirit an it. Are you tured of mocking God? And yet, those of the OSAS will agree with you in this mockery of God, have they yet admonished you of this vile mockery? It is true what has been written that the one who is without the coniction (tutoring) of the Spirit is fatherless. Are you being led?
This would be a good time to discover what it means to be LED by the Spirit. -- Yes it would be
Ever been under arrest? Honestly, no. But even this we can learn of what happens to one who is disobedient to authority. If you learn from your correction (Holy Spirit) you will not return to what made you to be corrected. If you do not and get into more trouble, you get more correction time.........over and over....but if you do not learn the correct path and commit the ultimate crime (kill (your relationship with God)) you face death (peneality)
C
To the servants of His house. To the productive servants who will be rewarded greatly. To the not so produictive servants who will be rewarded little but nevertheless they themselves will be saved. To the unproductive servants who shall have what was given Him taken away and thrown into outer darkenss. That is who He. our Lord. was speaking to, His servants.
A
Originally Posted by cfultz3
convince me of what? that the Lord i serve will not help me? -- Who said that the Lord will not HELP you?
that if i abide in Him and His words abide in me that i wont have fruit? -- So we all better start producing fruit or be like the unproductive servant who take what he had taken away from him and thrown in out darkness (give over to the tormentors).dont think you understand the tormenters, but anyway...we cant produce fruit...we only bear it. Does a branch produce or carry fruit? Even to say bear, it means to carry fruit.....so we carry our fruit with us and must show the Harvester our fruits. Are have we yet fogotten how the unfruitful tree is cut down and burnt?I honestly dont think you understand the burning part. A branch is nothing but dead wood...it cant produce anything..the fruit comes from the vine all it does is abide on the vine. No we dont do this to show the Husbandman the fruit is for others we become fruitful to the church and world...the husbandman prunes us to get max yield.
Or that if im faithful..i still should worry? -- if you produice fruit than no. But if not then yeslike i said you dont understand you CANT rpoduce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. But yet, you say, I think you do, that we produce fruit of righteousness with the Spirit. Either way, bear or produce, we will have been rewarded on our fruits. So, how then is rewarded? The Spirit who leads to good works or the one who hearkened to Him and produced those fruits. Would it not be illogical to say that God will reward Himself for the work He did through you*? Your mixing different parables please dont...you not quite understanding them. The answer is no...God needs nothing the fruit is for service, others eat it....in it we Glorify the Lord...like i said we CANT produce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. The fruit of righteousness is another thought altogether yet it works the same....abiding on the vine...i dont think about doing this, fruits of the Spirit are not fruits of my labor but fruits of Him.....Now if you want to talk about labor as in duties like study, prayer, ect...then we should change topics for that.
Is He Lord? Didnt He make promises? --- Did not God make promises to the Hebrews and some did not hearken to His Voice and thus did not receive His promises. Simple faith, if you become disobedient, rest in the assurance that God will remain faithful.Of coarse they were disobedient...they didnt believe. you know that.If they had they would have been obedient.. Do we not know that almost all who came out of Egypt were disobedient and they learned obedeince by the things they suffered, in much the same way our Lord learned His: by hearkening to Him?Of coarse and so do we learn by suffering Rom5 1peter1 along with discipline from the Father.
Did He ask me to trust Him? Do you? YES! then no worries. If you do not trust Him in His leading you? Then what? As a broken record, yes I trust Him to lead me home and I trust that what He has said is True. Why not simply accept one can fall.Well i know people will fall, never said they couldnt..done it myself. But Guess whose arms i fell in when i did? And praise God you decided to repent and return to His open arms. But that still does not answer for those who decide a rebellious life is still better and remain under the Spirit's coniviction. Have we not heard that the Lord is longsuffering. It does not stay that He is eternally patient, but LONGsuffering?Do you think all the Lord does is convict? are you kidding? He has followed them through their life till they become reprobates. But you know what...if a person doesnt respond to grace and mercy....few will change out of fear...the fearful go into the lake of fire, they bury their gift thinking the Lord is mean and austere. And that wont save them...He wants our willingness.
Cast all my cares on Him? Amen.
There are hundreds of verses people could have brought to your thread. -- and yet there are still thousands more which they ignore.I just think you have the wrong attitude and perspective...the ones youve contended with do not ignore any scripture they have been wonderful faithfull upright believers that didnt like your position and how you are dealing with scripture. Most of them have walked many many years with the Lord and have deep understanding of all the scripture you provided and seen your point and understand your sentament. Really? You mean all those scriptures which I presented was not contented with? So if they live a righteous and upright life and I tell others about the pitfalls on the racetrack, they do not like that I point to Jesus' Spirit as the way to walk that same path? But yet, if they remain faithful, they shall be led into salvation. I wasnt contending with the verses...just what you were blowing into them,if you wanted to teach folks HOW to stand and how to stay strong, renew their minds, show them the Lovelyness and beauty of the Lord...in His(as David always said) Lovingkindness and tendermercies...id be all withyou If you realy cared they hung around show them how beautiful the Lord is and give them something to be interested in.
Only thing i see in what you teach is that ill fall away. -- yes there is that possbility, otherwise the God would not have said so.like i said i have, but thats not the end of the story. But what of the ones who believe no matter what one does, he cannot loose salvation? So it is wrong to tell them the words of God that if one who is righteous and leaves his righteousness to live an disobedient life will not have his righteousness remembered, but in the iniquity of his iniquity and the sinfulness of his sin, HE SHALL DIE? Are we to ingnore God over one verse of what Paul said, where is the agreement of Scripture of that?No we dont just agree with Paul as if they contradict...but there is a slight difference in administrations....also i never notice when you quote that ezekiel passage you reading the next few verses...where it talks about if the person repents. Mighty important part of that script. Both new and old testament Gods Spirit worked on mans heart empowering him to repent. Just like He does to you and me. IF i didnt repent id say you were right id die...but can i not repent? thats another thread. Im a new creation my nature is new, now when i fall
i hate it sin now is something i hate. He did this to me when He gave me a new spirit and a new heart.
Or because
I trust Him more than me...even tho the word says a man who trusts in himself is a fool.
I shouldnt have hope. -- Hope is only given to those who trust. So, if one falls and remains there, does he still trust?Not according to my experience, i guess when He pulled me into His arms i could have jacked Him in the face...but it just didnt come into my mind.. It is when you repented and turned back towards Him as your light that He pulled you into His arm. God did not to offend us, we offened into in whatever rebellion we chose to leave Him in. So, who repent and who was still there to accept you in His arms?all our stories are different...i once went back into the world and just hated it and didnt belong...so when i decided to go back He was there before i repented...oh yes i repented but not because i was scared He was so all over me first i think my repentance was out of gratitude....another time i just drifted inside...not in sin...just alseep at the wheel...like ephesus in revelation...same thing He was on me while i was seconds before calling on Him....Hes always faithful...but not intrusive. I cant imagine how anyone can reject Him, to be truthful.....but in my younger years things were not that clear.
Im not against anyone warning people with truth. Im not a grace only teacher. -- Hmmm
Youd like to think so. -- who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.Oh im sure everyone here that opposed you have rebuked many folks as often as it was necessary..but maybe with words seasoned with grace and always with the intent to restore...unless it was time to bid them farewell till they repented. And surely they all believe in total obedience to bad you never thought to ask. Reread...what you say is not the point I am making. I do not have to ask, I read what you say. So perhaps???????????????????? Well i sure dont remember what you have read or whether you even understood it...would have to examine that one by one. Do you mean you read into what i say?
But then you may think since i have my trust in the Lord
its because im wallowing in sin. -- that would be between you and God.But I will say that God's Spirit is not to be denied His leading. I trust my Lord and I have salvation. You say you have trust in Him, and accordingly, you have salvation. But never forget, that the reward is at the end of the race, not in the middle where there is pitfalls.Im not forgetting the race isnt over. But the race isnt with
God on the sidelines waiting for me to fall so He can laugh and condemn me...He died for me..He wants to purify me. Do you know why job didnt pack it in? maybe not. OH but.......................He runs before us to show us the pitfalls and to give us directions to go around them......That is why He is called our faith's Forerunner. Hmm ive not given that much thought ive fallen in alot of pits but He was there too.
But thats not even logical although its been all over
these threads.
convince me of what? that the Lord i serve will not help me? -- Who said that the Lord will not HELP you?
that if i abide in Him and His words abide in me that i wont have fruit? -- So we all better start producing fruit or be like the unproductive servant who take what he had taken away from him and thrown in out darkness (give over to the tormentors).dont think you understand the tormenters, but anyway...we cant produce fruit...we only bear it. Does a branch produce or carry fruit? Even to say bear, it means to carry fruit.....so we carry our fruit with us and must show the Harvester our fruits. Are have we yet fogotten how the unfruitful tree is cut down and burnt?I honestly dont think you understand the burning part. A branch is nothing but dead wood...it cant produce anything..the fruit comes from the vine all it does is abide on the vine. No we dont do this to show the Husbandman the fruit is for others we become fruitful to the church and world...the husbandman prunes us to get max yield.
Or that if im faithful..i still should worry? -- if you produice fruit than no. But if not then yeslike i said you dont understand you CANT rpoduce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. But yet, you say, I think you do, that we produce fruit of righteousness with the Spirit. Either way, bear or produce, we will have been rewarded on our fruits. So, how then is rewarded? The Spirit who leads to good works or the one who hearkened to Him and produced those fruits. Would it not be illogical to say that God will reward Himself for the work He did through you*? Your mixing different parables please dont...you not quite understanding them. The answer is no...God needs nothing the fruit is for service, others eat it....in it we Glorify the Lord...like i said we CANT produce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. The fruit of righteousness is another thought altogether yet it works the same....abiding on the vine...i dont think about doing this, fruits of the Spirit are not fruits of my labor but fruits of Him.....Now if you want to talk about labor as in duties like study, prayer, ect...then we should change topics for that.
Is He Lord? Didnt He make promises? --- Did not God make promises to the Hebrews and some did not hearken to His Voice and thus did not receive His promises. Simple faith, if you become disobedient, rest in the assurance that God will remain faithful.Of coarse they were disobedient...they didnt believe. you know that.If they had they would have been obedient.. Do we not know that almost all who came out of Egypt were disobedient and they learned obedeince by the things they suffered, in much the same way our Lord learned His: by hearkening to Him?Of coarse and so do we learn by suffering Rom5 1peter1 along with discipline from the Father.
Did He ask me to trust Him? Do you? YES! then no worries. If you do not trust Him in His leading you? Then what? As a broken record, yes I trust Him to lead me home and I trust that what He has said is True. Why not simply accept one can fall.Well i know people will fall, never said they couldnt..done it myself. But Guess whose arms i fell in when i did? And praise God you decided to repent and return to His open arms. But that still does not answer for those who decide a rebellious life is still better and remain under the Spirit's coniviction. Have we not heard that the Lord is longsuffering. It does not stay that He is eternally patient, but LONGsuffering?Do you think all the Lord does is convict? are you kidding? He has followed them through their life till they become reprobates. But you know what...if a person doesnt respond to grace and mercy....few will change out of fear...the fearful go into the lake of fire, they bury their gift thinking the Lord is mean and austere. And that wont save them...He wants our willingness.
Cast all my cares on Him? Amen.
There are hundreds of verses people could have brought to your thread. -- and yet there are still thousands more which they ignore.I just think you have the wrong attitude and perspective...the ones youve contended with do not ignore any scripture they have been wonderful faithfull upright believers that didnt like your position and how you are dealing with scripture. Most of them have walked many many years with the Lord and have deep understanding of all the scripture you provided and seen your point and understand your sentament. Really? You mean all those scriptures which I presented was not contented with? So if they live a righteous and upright life and I tell others about the pitfalls on the racetrack, they do not like that I point to Jesus' Spirit as the way to walk that same path? But yet, if they remain faithful, they shall be led into salvation. I wasnt contending with the verses...just what you were blowing into them,if you wanted to teach folks HOW to stand and how to stay strong, renew their minds, show them the Lovelyness and beauty of the Lord...in His(as David always said) Lovingkindness and tendermercies...id be all withyou If you realy cared they hung around show them how beautiful the Lord is and give them something to be interested in.
Only thing i see in what you teach is that ill fall away. -- yes there is that possbility, otherwise the God would not have said so.like i said i have, but thats not the end of the story. But what of the ones who believe no matter what one does, he cannot loose salvation? So it is wrong to tell them the words of God that if one who is righteous and leaves his righteousness to live an disobedient life will not have his righteousness remembered, but in the iniquity of his iniquity and the sinfulness of his sin, HE SHALL DIE? Are we to ingnore God over one verse of what Paul said, where is the agreement of Scripture of that?No we dont just agree with Paul as if they contradict...but there is a slight difference in administrations....also i never notice when you quote that ezekiel passage you reading the next few verses...where it talks about if the person repents. Mighty important part of that script. Both new and old testament Gods Spirit worked on mans heart empowering him to repent. Just like He does to you and me. IF i didnt repent id say you were right id die...but can i not repent? thats another thread. Im a new creation my nature is new, now when i fall
i hate it sin now is something i hate. He did this to me when He gave me a new spirit and a new heart.
Or because
I trust Him more than me...even tho the word says a man who trusts in himself is a fool.
I shouldnt have hope. -- Hope is only given to those who trust. So, if one falls and remains there, does he still trust?Not according to my experience, i guess when He pulled me into His arms i could have jacked Him in the face...but it just didnt come into my mind.. It is when you repented and turned back towards Him as your light that He pulled you into His arm. God did not to offend us, we offened into in whatever rebellion we chose to leave Him in. So, who repent and who was still there to accept you in His arms?all our stories are different...i once went back into the world and just hated it and didnt belong...so when i decided to go back He was there before i repented...oh yes i repented but not because i was scared He was so all over me first i think my repentance was out of gratitude....another time i just drifted inside...not in sin...just alseep at the wheel...like ephesus in revelation...same thing He was on me while i was seconds before calling on Him....Hes always faithful...but not intrusive. I cant imagine how anyone can reject Him, to be truthful.....but in my younger years things were not that clear.
Im not against anyone warning people with truth. Im not a grace only teacher. -- Hmmm
Youd like to think so. -- who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.Oh im sure everyone here that opposed you have rebuked many folks as often as it was necessary..but maybe with words seasoned with grace and always with the intent to restore...unless it was time to bid them farewell till they repented. And surely they all believe in total obedience to bad you never thought to ask. Reread...what you say is not the point I am making. I do not have to ask, I read what you say. So perhaps???????????????????? Well i sure dont remember what you have read or whether you even understood it...would have to examine that one by one. Do you mean you read into what i say?
But then you may think since i have my trust in the Lord
its because im wallowing in sin. -- that would be between you and God.But I will say that God's Spirit is not to be denied His leading. I trust my Lord and I have salvation. You say you have trust in Him, and accordingly, you have salvation. But never forget, that the reward is at the end of the race, not in the middle where there is pitfalls.Im not forgetting the race isnt over. But the race isnt with
God on the sidelines waiting for me to fall so He can laugh and condemn me...He died for me..He wants to purify me. Do you know why job didnt pack it in? maybe not. OH but.......................He runs before us to show us the pitfalls and to give us directions to go around them......That is why He is called our faith's Forerunner. Hmm ive not given that much thought ive fallen in alot of pits but He was there too.
But thats not even logical although its been all over
these threads.
P
Abiding said:
all our stories are different...i once went back into the world and just hated it and didnt belong...so when i decided to go back He was there before i repented...oh yes i repented but not because i was scared He was so all over me first i think my repentance was out of gratitude....another time i just drifted inside...not in sin...just alseep at the wheel...like ephesus in revelation...same thing He was on me while i was seconds before calling on Him....Hes always faithful...but not intrusive. I cant imagine how anyone can reject Him, to be truthful.....but in my younger years things were not that clear.
I think that's a beautiful story of grace functioning in the life of the believer. If we do sin (and may the Lord forbid it!) His grace is there, well before we turn back...it's what causes us to do so!
Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more untill the heart of God's beloved is so full of it he has no choice but to return Home.
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? MAY IT NEVER BE! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
But, I'll let you discover the lovely truth of being crucified with Christ in Romans 6 for yourselves.
May the Name of the Lord be praised! ♥
-ellie
all our stories are different...i once went back into the world and just hated it and didnt belong...so when i decided to go back He was there before i repented...oh yes i repented but not because i was scared He was so all over me first i think my repentance was out of gratitude....another time i just drifted inside...not in sin...just alseep at the wheel...like ephesus in revelation...same thing He was on me while i was seconds before calling on Him....Hes always faithful...but not intrusive. I cant imagine how anyone can reject Him, to be truthful.....but in my younger years things were not that clear.
I think that's a beautiful story of grace functioning in the life of the believer. If we do sin (and may the Lord forbid it!) His grace is there, well before we turn back...it's what causes us to do so!
Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more untill the heart of God's beloved is so full of it he has no choice but to return Home. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? MAY IT NEVER BE! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
But, I'll let you discover the lovely truth of being crucified with Christ in Romans 6 for yourselves.
May the Name of the Lord be praised! ♥
-ellie
P
I know a lot has been said, but I wanted to respond to this.
I know you're sincere! I never doubted it.
I also believe in obedience. You may choose to believe that or not, but it is true.
I want to obey the Lord. I just know it can't be done in my own power.
You know, not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit?
That's what I'm saying (and apparently really poorly! lol).
I do not have the power to obey the Lord. Only He can give me that.
I am responsible for any failure (but forgiven!), and He is responsible for any success.
Does that help at all to overcome the impasse?
-ellie
I know you're sincere! I never doubted it.
I also believe in obedience. You may choose to believe that or not, but it is true.
I want to obey the Lord. I just know it can't be done in my own power.
You know, not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit?
That's what I'm saying (and apparently really poorly! lol).
I do not have the power to obey the Lord. Only He can give me that.
I am responsible for any failure (but forgiven!), and He is responsible for any success.
Does that help at all to overcome the impasse?
-ellie
C
convince me of what? that the Lord i serve will not help me? -- Who said that the Lord will not HELP you?
that if i abide in Him and His words abide in me that i wont have fruit? -- So we all better start producing fruit or be like the unproductive servant who take what he had taken away from him and thrown in out darkness (give over to the tormentors).dont think you understand the tormenters, but anyway...we cant produce fruit...we only bear it. Does a branch produce or carry fruit? Even to say bear, it means to carry fruit.....so we carry our fruit with us and must show the Harvester our fruits. Are have we yet fogotten how the unfruitful tree is cut down and burnt?I honestly dont think you understand the burning part. A branch is nothing but dead wood...it cant produce anything..the fruit comes from the vine all it does is abide on the vine. No we dont do this to show the Husbandman the fruit is for others we become fruitful to the church and world...the husbandman prunes us to get max yield. A branch is a dead wood....how does it produce if it is not alive as the trunk? Does not the branch because it is attached to the trunk bring forth fruit, or does the trunk without the branches bring forth fruit? No, we prune each other as it is said of Paul and Apollos. One seeds, one waters, yet another prunes. But the Harvester is God. If Paul spoke of himself as the one who seeds and another who waters, then is it not us who produced the wheat for God's farm barn through the leading of the Spirit? Who is said to be rewarded for their toils in Christ? Did not Paul said we would be rewarded accordingly?
Or that if im faithful..i still should worry? -- if you produice fruit than no. But if not then yeslike i said you dont understand you CANT rpoduce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. But yet, you say, I think you do, that we produce fruit of righteousness with the Spirit. Either way, bear or produce, we will have been rewarded on our fruits. So, how then is rewarded? The Spirit who leads to good works or the one who hearkened to Him and produced those fruits. Would it not be illogical to say that God will reward Himself for the work He did through you*? Your mixing different parables please dont...you not quite understanding them. The answer is no...God needs nothing the fruit is for service, others eat it....in it we Glorify the Lord...like i said we CANT produce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. The fruit of righteousness is another thought altogether yet it works the same....abiding on the vine...i dont think about doing this, fruits of the Spirit are not fruits of my labor but fruits of Him.....Now if you want to talk about labor as in duties like study, prayer, ect...then we should change topics for that. We have been through this already. They are both speaking of the same end result: the unproductive servant. I understand it completely, I accept all of Scripture whether i like what is said or not. My truth is nothing, His Truth is everything. The subject, whether I talk about this or talk about that, does remain the same: we are to follow Him, His Spirit, and if we do not then how can one be productive. If one is following the Spirit, then nothing I say is towards them, but if one speaks as though they can enter thier rest and yet discredit God's own Spirit, then they have another thing coming. How can i stay on subject when we have about 5-10 different subjects being spoken about just in this one post.
Is He Lord? Didnt He make promises? --- Did not God make promises to the Hebrews and some did not hearken to His Voice and thus did not receive His promises. Simple faith, if you become disobedient, rest in the assurance that God will remain faithful.Of coarse they were disobedient...they didnt believe. you know that.If they had they would have been obedient.. Do we not know that almost all who came out of Egypt were disobedient and they learned obedeince by the things they suffered, in much the same way our Lord learned His: by hearkening to Him?Of coarse and so do we learn by suffering Rom5 1peter1 along with discipline from the Father. I see no argument here then, if we both see that one must be willing to be obedient (willing to accept discipline) from His Spirit. What you see me saying as obedient you say as discipline. So, if I say that we must hearken to Him, what then if we do not? It is told us what we are considered if we do not accept His discipline.
Did He ask me to trust Him? Do you? YES! then no worries. If you do not trust Him in His leading you? Then what? As a broken record, yes I trust Him to lead me home and I trust that what He has said is True. Why not simply accept one can fall.Well i know people will fall, never said they couldnt..done it myself. But Guess whose arms i fell in when i did? And praise God you decided to repent and return to His open arms. But that still does not answer for those who decide a rebellious life is still better and remain under the Spirit's coniviction. Have we not heard that the Lord is longsuffering. It does not stay that He is eternally patient, but LONGsuffering?Do you think all the Lord does is convict? are you kidding? He has followed them through their life till they become reprobates. But you know what...if a person doesnt respond to grace and mercy....few will change out of fear...the fearful go into the lake of fire, they bury their gift thinking the Lord is mean and austere. And that wont save them...He wants our willingness. By no means, he convict those who walk in opposition to His leading. To those who are not, they walk in peace. Are you kidding, thinking that one can who choices to leave his walk and live in the flesh can still go to Heaven even through they live in rebeliion? Even though God said they will die in their sins? Every thing you said after 'but you know what...' is what I am saying. What words can I use so that that can be understood? I simply do not get it.
Cast all my cares on Him? Amen.
There are hundreds of verses people could have brought to your thread. -- and yet there are still thousands more which they ignore.I just think you have the wrong attitude (my attitute comes from you all. But then aagin, people do not like it when it is thrown back into thier own face. If I cannot teach patiently, then i will become as one of them so that by such, they will learn from one who speaks like them) and perspective...the ones youve contended with do not ignore any scripture they have been wonderful faithfull upright believers that didnt like your position and how you are dealing with scripture. Most of them have walked many many years with the Lord and have deep understanding of all the scripture you provided and seen your point and understand your sentament. Really? You mean all those scriptures which I presented was not contented with? So if they live a righteous and upright life and I tell others about the pitfalls on the racetrack, they do not like that I point to Jesus' Spirit as the way to walk that same path? But yet, if they remain faithful, they shall be led into salvation. I wasnt contending with the verses...just what you were blowing into them,if you wanted to teach folks HOW to stand and how to stay strong, renew their minds, show them the Lovelyness and beauty of the Lord...in His(as David always said) Lovingkindness and tendermercies...id be all withyou If you realy cared they hung around show them how beautiful the Lord is and give them something to be interested in. What has been blown into them? The one which says if you love me then keep my commandments? This is spoken in the active. Who keeps the commandments, Jesus? You? Surely it can be seen that 'you' is being spoken to here. So, if we do not keep His commandments, are we reaelly loving Him? What about the one which says to contend for the faith? Are we to iognore this as nothing but empty air? Come now, let us reason together? Contend, strive to enter, walk not as, keep, guard, test spirits, love, follow me, etc,.... are all in the active. how is it possible to renew their minds when every single verse given to them is disannuled in favor of that OSAS doctrine? as long as they deny Truth presented to them, it is impossible to have their minds renewed by the Spriit? Is not the Spirit the Spirit of Truth? If He is thought of as an it a thing of a loons mind, how can they be renewed? It is the spirit who shows people the lovingness and beauty of the Lord...but how can He if He is denied His place in their salvation? I will not deny the full administation of God's salvation plan to them, that would be misleading them. How can i show them God's love when they reject Him in His Spirit's adminstration. Until they learn to accept God in all His Forms, there can be no love spoken, seeing that deny God His place.
Only thing i see in what you teach is that ill fall away. -- yes there is that possbility, otherwise the God would not have said so.like i said i have, but thats not the end of the story. But what of the ones who believe no matter what one does, he cannot loose salvation? So it is wrong to tell them the words of God that if one who is righteous and leaves his righteousness to live an disobedient life will not have his righteousness remembered, but in the iniquity of his iniquity and the sinfulness of his sin, HE SHALL DIE? Are we to ingnore God over one verse of what Paul said, where is the agreement of Scripture of that?No we dont just agree with Paul as if they contradict...but there is a slight difference in --You set there and repeatly tell people you are not of the OSAS doctrine but here you include yourself to be of them. So you can no longer, out of being fair, deny that you are of the OSAS teaching Abide
administrations....also i never notice when you quote that ezekiel passage you reading the next few verses...where it talks about if the person repents. -- Yes, so if a person repents all is well. But if not? You said you repented and all is well with you. But if you did not repent?
Mighty important part of that script. Both new and old testament Gods Spirit worked on mans heart empowering him to repent. Just like He does to you and me. IF i didnt repent id say you were right id die...but can i not repent? thats another thread. -- No, it is not another thread, it has every thing to do with OSAS. If you desire not to repent, then has not God no choose but to leave you as you are. Neithe does this say that He will give up on you, but it is certain that in His wisdom there will come a time when He says enough. The Book of revelation tells us that there will come a time when He will say enough of trying to reach out to the lost, enough of the hypocrite. enough of the children of rebellion.
Im a new creation my nature is new, now when i fall
i hate it sin now is something i hate. He did this to me when He gave me a new spirit and a new heart. --- This still does not answer about one's freewill. If you can answer these questions with an open heart then maybe I will shut up about freewill.
Adam and Eve were in God's rest. They fellowshipped with Him and saw Him face to face. They disobeyed. The consequence of that freewill was that they were thrown out of that rest and was placed under work. Now, if one who is in fellowship with God choose to leave that by their action. why didn't God make them come back into that union? But instead, have they not abandoned their rightousness (the means by which they stood before God: by their obediene to His commands)? And what happened to them because of choosing disobedeince?
And what of Lucifer and the fallen angels, they were before God, yet He did not force them to come back but as they chose of their freewill, they faced the consequences of their actions.
So it is with us, who are faithful and in uniion with God spiritual for the moment, if we choose to abandon our righteousness: Jesus Christ, we are in the same codemnation: an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. So, who is right God who says the one who practice righteousness is righteous as He is rightous or a doctrine of man which says one actions, once they believe, have no bearing on their salvation. This sort of believe only concludes with the notion that we are free to do as we well please, inasmuch as the Universal Salvation opponents declare. Every religion has it rules and Christ set those rules out for us. If we do not comply with Him, dont be fooled, He is no Lord of yours, seeing that you cannot even obey Him in the flesh.
Or because
I trust Him more than me...even tho the word says a man who trusts in himself is a fool.
I shouldnt have hope. -- Hope is only given to those who trust. So, if one falls and remains there, does he still trust?Not according to my experience, i guess when He pulled me into His arms i could have jacked Him in the face...but it just didnt come into my mind.. It is when you repented and turned back towards Him as your light that He pulled you into His arm. God did not to offend us, we offened into in whatever rebellion we chose to leave Him in. So, who repent and who was still there to accept you in His arms?all our stories are different...i once went back into the world and just hated it and didnt belong...so when i decided to go back He was there before i repented...oh yes i repented but not because i was scared He was so all over me first i think my repentance was out of gratitude....another time i just drifted inside...not in sin...just alseep at the wheel...like ephesus in revelation...same thing He was on me while i was seconds before calling on Him....Hes always faithful...but not intrusive. I cant imagine how anyone can reject Him, to be truthful.....but in my younger years things were not that clear. Again, I am glad you repent, but it canot be said that all will repent. Yes again, God is there waiting for that person to repent, but in no way will He force His Lordship on that person as it was spoken about above.
Im not against anyone warning people with truth. Im not a grace only teacher. -- Hmmm
Youd like to think so. -- who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.Oh im sure everyone here that opposed you have rebuked many folks as often as it was necessary..but maybe with words seasoned with grace and always with the intent to restore...unless it was time to bid them farewell till they repented. And surely they all believe in total obedience to bad you never thought to ask. Reread...what you say is not the point I am making. I do not have to ask, I read what you say. So perhaps???????????????????? Well i sure dont remember what you have read or whether you even understood it...would have to examine that one by one. Do you mean you read into what i say? As to asking people what they believe, I trust what they write to be what they believe. Now if they do not believe what they write, then that would be a different story of a wayward wave.
But then you may think since i have my trust in the Lord
its because im wallowing in sin. -- that would be between you and God.But I will say that God's Spirit is not to be denied His leading. I trust my Lord and I have salvation. You say you have trust in Him, and accordingly, you have salvation. But never forget, that the reward is at the end of the race, not in the middle where there is pitfalls.Im not forgetting the race isnt over. But the race isnt with
God on the sidelines waiting for me to fall so He can laugh and condemn me...He died for me..He wants to purify me. Do you know why job didnt pack it in? maybe not. OH but.......................He runs before us to show us the pitfalls and to give us directions to go around them......That is why He is called our faith's Forerunner. Hmm ive not given that much thought ive fallen in alot of pits but He was there too. -- Abiding , yes He is there and will allllllllllllwayyyys be there WHEN we come back to Him in true repentance. God know the intent of the heart and He will not be mocked forever. There will come a time when one is not producing nothing but briers and thorns and it is in His providence that He decides that there is no more hope for one who seek forgiveness only for the instant.
But thats not even logical although its been all over
these threads.
This is getting quit long, can we break it down some, i will leave it up to you if you want to and how you want to. But I reread the every paragraph every time and it is getting to be to much for me to respond in a clear head.
that if i abide in Him and His words abide in me that i wont have fruit? -- So we all better start producing fruit or be like the unproductive servant who take what he had taken away from him and thrown in out darkness (give over to the tormentors).dont think you understand the tormenters, but anyway...we cant produce fruit...we only bear it. Does a branch produce or carry fruit? Even to say bear, it means to carry fruit.....so we carry our fruit with us and must show the Harvester our fruits. Are have we yet fogotten how the unfruitful tree is cut down and burnt?I honestly dont think you understand the burning part. A branch is nothing but dead wood...it cant produce anything..the fruit comes from the vine all it does is abide on the vine. No we dont do this to show the Husbandman the fruit is for others we become fruitful to the church and world...the husbandman prunes us to get max yield. A branch is a dead wood....how does it produce if it is not alive as the trunk? Does not the branch because it is attached to the trunk bring forth fruit, or does the trunk without the branches bring forth fruit? No, we prune each other as it is said of Paul and Apollos. One seeds, one waters, yet another prunes. But the Harvester is God. If Paul spoke of himself as the one who seeds and another who waters, then is it not us who produced the wheat for God's farm barn through the leading of the Spirit? Who is said to be rewarded for their toils in Christ? Did not Paul said we would be rewarded accordingly?
Or that if im faithful..i still should worry? -- if you produice fruit than no. But if not then yeslike i said you dont understand you CANT rpoduce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. But yet, you say, I think you do, that we produce fruit of righteousness with the Spirit. Either way, bear or produce, we will have been rewarded on our fruits. So, how then is rewarded? The Spirit who leads to good works or the one who hearkened to Him and produced those fruits. Would it not be illogical to say that God will reward Himself for the work He did through you*? Your mixing different parables please dont...you not quite understanding them. The answer is no...God needs nothing the fruit is for service, others eat it....in it we Glorify the Lord...like i said we CANT produce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. The fruit of righteousness is another thought altogether yet it works the same....abiding on the vine...i dont think about doing this, fruits of the Spirit are not fruits of my labor but fruits of Him.....Now if you want to talk about labor as in duties like study, prayer, ect...then we should change topics for that. We have been through this already. They are both speaking of the same end result: the unproductive servant. I understand it completely, I accept all of Scripture whether i like what is said or not. My truth is nothing, His Truth is everything. The subject, whether I talk about this or talk about that, does remain the same: we are to follow Him, His Spirit, and if we do not then how can one be productive. If one is following the Spirit, then nothing I say is towards them, but if one speaks as though they can enter thier rest and yet discredit God's own Spirit, then they have another thing coming. How can i stay on subject when we have about 5-10 different subjects being spoken about just in this one post.
Is He Lord? Didnt He make promises? --- Did not God make promises to the Hebrews and some did not hearken to His Voice and thus did not receive His promises. Simple faith, if you become disobedient, rest in the assurance that God will remain faithful.Of coarse they were disobedient...they didnt believe. you know that.If they had they would have been obedient.. Do we not know that almost all who came out of Egypt were disobedient and they learned obedeince by the things they suffered, in much the same way our Lord learned His: by hearkening to Him?Of coarse and so do we learn by suffering Rom5 1peter1 along with discipline from the Father. I see no argument here then, if we both see that one must be willing to be obedient (willing to accept discipline) from His Spirit. What you see me saying as obedient you say as discipline. So, if I say that we must hearken to Him, what then if we do not? It is told us what we are considered if we do not accept His discipline.
Did He ask me to trust Him? Do you? YES! then no worries. If you do not trust Him in His leading you? Then what? As a broken record, yes I trust Him to lead me home and I trust that what He has said is True. Why not simply accept one can fall.Well i know people will fall, never said they couldnt..done it myself. But Guess whose arms i fell in when i did? And praise God you decided to repent and return to His open arms. But that still does not answer for those who decide a rebellious life is still better and remain under the Spirit's coniviction. Have we not heard that the Lord is longsuffering. It does not stay that He is eternally patient, but LONGsuffering?Do you think all the Lord does is convict? are you kidding? He has followed them through their life till they become reprobates. But you know what...if a person doesnt respond to grace and mercy....few will change out of fear...the fearful go into the lake of fire, they bury their gift thinking the Lord is mean and austere. And that wont save them...He wants our willingness. By no means, he convict those who walk in opposition to His leading. To those who are not, they walk in peace. Are you kidding, thinking that one can who choices to leave his walk and live in the flesh can still go to Heaven even through they live in rebeliion? Even though God said they will die in their sins? Every thing you said after 'but you know what...' is what I am saying. What words can I use so that that can be understood? I simply do not get it.
Cast all my cares on Him? Amen.
There are hundreds of verses people could have brought to your thread. -- and yet there are still thousands more which they ignore.I just think you have the wrong attitude (my attitute comes from you all. But then aagin, people do not like it when it is thrown back into thier own face. If I cannot teach patiently, then i will become as one of them so that by such, they will learn from one who speaks like them) and perspective...the ones youve contended with do not ignore any scripture they have been wonderful faithfull upright believers that didnt like your position and how you are dealing with scripture. Most of them have walked many many years with the Lord and have deep understanding of all the scripture you provided and seen your point and understand your sentament. Really? You mean all those scriptures which I presented was not contented with? So if they live a righteous and upright life and I tell others about the pitfalls on the racetrack, they do not like that I point to Jesus' Spirit as the way to walk that same path? But yet, if they remain faithful, they shall be led into salvation. I wasnt contending with the verses...just what you were blowing into them,if you wanted to teach folks HOW to stand and how to stay strong, renew their minds, show them the Lovelyness and beauty of the Lord...in His(as David always said) Lovingkindness and tendermercies...id be all withyou If you realy cared they hung around show them how beautiful the Lord is and give them something to be interested in. What has been blown into them? The one which says if you love me then keep my commandments? This is spoken in the active. Who keeps the commandments, Jesus? You? Surely it can be seen that 'you' is being spoken to here. So, if we do not keep His commandments, are we reaelly loving Him? What about the one which says to contend for the faith? Are we to iognore this as nothing but empty air? Come now, let us reason together? Contend, strive to enter, walk not as, keep, guard, test spirits, love, follow me, etc,.... are all in the active. how is it possible to renew their minds when every single verse given to them is disannuled in favor of that OSAS doctrine? as long as they deny Truth presented to them, it is impossible to have their minds renewed by the Spriit? Is not the Spirit the Spirit of Truth? If He is thought of as an it a thing of a loons mind, how can they be renewed? It is the spirit who shows people the lovingness and beauty of the Lord...but how can He if He is denied His place in their salvation? I will not deny the full administation of God's salvation plan to them, that would be misleading them. How can i show them God's love when they reject Him in His Spirit's adminstration. Until they learn to accept God in all His Forms, there can be no love spoken, seeing that deny God His place.
Only thing i see in what you teach is that ill fall away. -- yes there is that possbility, otherwise the God would not have said so.like i said i have, but thats not the end of the story. But what of the ones who believe no matter what one does, he cannot loose salvation? So it is wrong to tell them the words of God that if one who is righteous and leaves his righteousness to live an disobedient life will not have his righteousness remembered, but in the iniquity of his iniquity and the sinfulness of his sin, HE SHALL DIE? Are we to ingnore God over one verse of what Paul said, where is the agreement of Scripture of that?No we dont just agree with Paul as if they contradict...but there is a slight difference in --You set there and repeatly tell people you are not of the OSAS doctrine but here you include yourself to be of them. So you can no longer, out of being fair, deny that you are of the OSAS teaching Abide
administrations....also i never notice when you quote that ezekiel passage you reading the next few verses...where it talks about if the person repents. -- Yes, so if a person repents all is well. But if not? You said you repented and all is well with you. But if you did not repent?
Mighty important part of that script. Both new and old testament Gods Spirit worked on mans heart empowering him to repent. Just like He does to you and me. IF i didnt repent id say you were right id die...but can i not repent? thats another thread. -- No, it is not another thread, it has every thing to do with OSAS. If you desire not to repent, then has not God no choose but to leave you as you are. Neithe does this say that He will give up on you, but it is certain that in His wisdom there will come a time when He says enough. The Book of revelation tells us that there will come a time when He will say enough of trying to reach out to the lost, enough of the hypocrite. enough of the children of rebellion.
Im a new creation my nature is new, now when i fall
i hate it sin now is something i hate. He did this to me when He gave me a new spirit and a new heart. --- This still does not answer about one's freewill. If you can answer these questions with an open heart then maybe I will shut up about freewill.
Adam and Eve were in God's rest. They fellowshipped with Him and saw Him face to face. They disobeyed. The consequence of that freewill was that they were thrown out of that rest and was placed under work. Now, if one who is in fellowship with God choose to leave that by their action. why didn't God make them come back into that union? But instead, have they not abandoned their rightousness (the means by which they stood before God: by their obediene to His commands)? And what happened to them because of choosing disobedeince?
And what of Lucifer and the fallen angels, they were before God, yet He did not force them to come back but as they chose of their freewill, they faced the consequences of their actions.
So it is with us, who are faithful and in uniion with God spiritual for the moment, if we choose to abandon our righteousness: Jesus Christ, we are in the same codemnation: an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. So, who is right God who says the one who practice righteousness is righteous as He is rightous or a doctrine of man which says one actions, once they believe, have no bearing on their salvation. This sort of believe only concludes with the notion that we are free to do as we well please, inasmuch as the Universal Salvation opponents declare. Every religion has it rules and Christ set those rules out for us. If we do not comply with Him, dont be fooled, He is no Lord of yours, seeing that you cannot even obey Him in the flesh.
Or because
I trust Him more than me...even tho the word says a man who trusts in himself is a fool.
I shouldnt have hope. -- Hope is only given to those who trust. So, if one falls and remains there, does he still trust?Not according to my experience, i guess when He pulled me into His arms i could have jacked Him in the face...but it just didnt come into my mind.. It is when you repented and turned back towards Him as your light that He pulled you into His arm. God did not to offend us, we offened into in whatever rebellion we chose to leave Him in. So, who repent and who was still there to accept you in His arms?all our stories are different...i once went back into the world and just hated it and didnt belong...so when i decided to go back He was there before i repented...oh yes i repented but not because i was scared He was so all over me first i think my repentance was out of gratitude....another time i just drifted inside...not in sin...just alseep at the wheel...like ephesus in revelation...same thing He was on me while i was seconds before calling on Him....Hes always faithful...but not intrusive. I cant imagine how anyone can reject Him, to be truthful.....but in my younger years things were not that clear. Again, I am glad you repent, but it canot be said that all will repent. Yes again, God is there waiting for that person to repent, but in no way will He force His Lordship on that person as it was spoken about above.
Im not against anyone warning people with truth. Im not a grace only teacher. -- Hmmm
Youd like to think so. -- who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.Oh im sure everyone here that opposed you have rebuked many folks as often as it was necessary..but maybe with words seasoned with grace and always with the intent to restore...unless it was time to bid them farewell till they repented. And surely they all believe in total obedience to bad you never thought to ask. Reread...what you say is not the point I am making. I do not have to ask, I read what you say. So perhaps???????????????????? Well i sure dont remember what you have read or whether you even understood it...would have to examine that one by one. Do you mean you read into what i say? As to asking people what they believe, I trust what they write to be what they believe. Now if they do not believe what they write, then that would be a different story of a wayward wave.
But then you may think since i have my trust in the Lord
its because im wallowing in sin. -- that would be between you and God.But I will say that God's Spirit is not to be denied His leading. I trust my Lord and I have salvation. You say you have trust in Him, and accordingly, you have salvation. But never forget, that the reward is at the end of the race, not in the middle where there is pitfalls.Im not forgetting the race isnt over. But the race isnt with
God on the sidelines waiting for me to fall so He can laugh and condemn me...He died for me..He wants to purify me. Do you know why job didnt pack it in? maybe not. OH but.......................He runs before us to show us the pitfalls and to give us directions to go around them......That is why He is called our faith's Forerunner. Hmm ive not given that much thought ive fallen in alot of pits but He was there too. -- Abiding , yes He is there and will allllllllllllwayyyys be there WHEN we come back to Him in true repentance. God know the intent of the heart and He will not be mocked forever. There will come a time when one is not producing nothing but briers and thorns and it is in His providence that He decides that there is no more hope for one who seek forgiveness only for the instant.
But thats not even logical although its been all over
these threads.
This is getting quit long, can we break it down some, i will leave it up to you if you want to and how you want to. But I reread the every paragraph every time and it is getting to be to much for me to respond in a clear head.
E
One who is outside of OSAS state that one can lose salvation.. If one can lose salvation. then our salvation is NOT based on faith in Christ and his work, But based on something we do or do not do. This places the basis of our faith not in God, but in self. I don;t know how it could mean anything else.
Now there are different types.
Antichrist- ie, no longer believe in Christ and reject him, of course John said they were never saved. I will say one thing, This is about the only difference which I would not say someone is not saved, because we both agree, they will not get to heaven. The difference is. One says they lost salvation. I say they never had it.
Sin - If we do not live a certain standard (although no one can state what that standard is) we will lose, or fail to meet the requirements required to maintain or gain salvation. The problem with this is if we look at God, we see the standard, and it is Christ. since none of us have met that standard, how could we possibly (sin ourself out of salvation"
Want to correct you here before moving on. Paul did not say the result must worked out, On the contrary, He said the result WILL be worked out. There is a huge gramatical difference here. Saying something must be, means something is required, where-as saying somethign will be means it will aautomatically happen.
Did you have a say in what family you would be born in? No. The work was done by your parents, and God.
You were born as a baby right? As you grew, how did you come to trust your parents? Did you not have to work to do what your parents said? And were you not even given the opportunity to fail, and see your parents were right? Is not christianity the same? Does it not take work to learn about our new father and learn to trust him?
I can not save myself. nor can you, the work of God did this. But if I just get saved, then do not work to learn my father, how must will I get to know him, learn to trust him and learn to rest in him.
So your not a teacher or pastor. and are just reading scripture? Then how can you know your interpreting right? I can use all kinds of scripture and make it say anything I want. does that mean they are right? If your telling me I should see things your way, your are trying to teach me what the word says are you not?
I showed you romans 11. it is about two groups of people. Can you read romans 11 and show me where I erred in that interpretation?
Christian living. We agree. Where we disagree is you think how we live out this life will depend on whether we will make it to heaven or not. And in my view. One must be born again (eternal life) and brought back into right standing with God before this living matters.
A works based salvation is a gospel which states our salvation is dependent on how well we work, whatever that work may be. That is what I see you say. and why I call it a works based salvation.
Secondly. what makes you think I went the other way? On the contrary, Grace allows me to live the way God wants me to. Because I learned he is a loving father, who like to abraham fulfilled his promise in spite of all his grave sins. He loved him anyway. This allowed abraham to continue to walk, and do the things because his faith in the loving father grew.
Who said I could not live for God and he would not empower me? Were do you get this stuff? It comes yet once again because you are not listening to me. You see in my believe God not only empowers me, But he WILL CONTINUE IT. Because it is HIM and NOT ME
ok first off, where do you get this being hurt stuff? Why do you think I was hurt? I did nto leave the legalism I grew up in because I was hurt, I left it because I saw so many people leave because they could not live up to the standard imposed on them by my church, I saw people who would not even listen to them, because instead of coming with a loving gospel, they came in judgment. This is not about me. What hurt me is I left and became a prodigal son for 5 years, and did alot of damage to my soul and body because of that.
I see things as they truly are my friend. You say I make assumptions, yet you continue to come at me with stuff I do not believe, You still think I do not believe in the power of God to grow me, I still believe I can live in sin and it will not matter, and you still do not think I understand what the power of God can do. If you would listen to what I would say, You would understand I do not believe in any of those things.
Here is what I hate, Not because I was hurt, but because of what it teaches. Anyone who teaches Gods salvation is not eternal. and can be lost is placing their faith in self. And not God. Paul did not spend half of his writings fighting legalism, and teaching eternal life based on the work of God to waste his breath, He did it because he understood the truth.
If ANYONE teaches a different gospel than what we have taught, let him be accursed. Why would paul condemn people for teaching a gospel which even separates from his in ONE WAY, if it was not so damning?
Now there are different types.
Antichrist- ie, no longer believe in Christ and reject him, of course John said they were never saved. I will say one thing, This is about the only difference which I would not say someone is not saved, because we both agree, they will not get to heaven. The difference is. One says they lost salvation. I say they never had it.
Sin - If we do not live a certain standard (although no one can state what that standard is) we will lose, or fail to meet the requirements required to maintain or gain salvation. The problem with this is if we look at God, we see the standard, and it is Christ. since none of us have met that standard, how could we possibly (sin ourself out of salvation"
Want to correct you here before moving on. Paul did not say the result must worked out, On the contrary, He said the result WILL be worked out. There is a huge gramatical difference here. Saying something must be, means something is required, where-as saying somethign will be means it will aautomatically happen.
Did you have a say in what family you would be born in? No. The work was done by your parents, and God.
You were born as a baby right? As you grew, how did you come to trust your parents? Did you not have to work to do what your parents said? And were you not even given the opportunity to fail, and see your parents were right? Is not christianity the same? Does it not take work to learn about our new father and learn to trust him?
I can not save myself. nor can you, the work of God did this. But if I just get saved, then do not work to learn my father, how must will I get to know him, learn to trust him and learn to rest in him.
So your not a teacher or pastor. and are just reading scripture? Then how can you know your interpreting right? I can use all kinds of scripture and make it say anything I want. does that mean they are right? If your telling me I should see things your way, your are trying to teach me what the word says are you not?
I showed you romans 11. it is about two groups of people. Can you read romans 11 and show me where I erred in that interpretation?
Christian living. We agree. Where we disagree is you think how we live out this life will depend on whether we will make it to heaven or not. And in my view. One must be born again (eternal life) and brought back into right standing with God before this living matters.
A works based salvation is a gospel which states our salvation is dependent on how well we work, whatever that work may be. That is what I see you say. and why I call it a works based salvation.
Secondly. what makes you think I went the other way? On the contrary, Grace allows me to live the way God wants me to. Because I learned he is a loving father, who like to abraham fulfilled his promise in spite of all his grave sins. He loved him anyway. This allowed abraham to continue to walk, and do the things because his faith in the loving father grew.
Who said I could not live for God and he would not empower me? Were do you get this stuff? It comes yet once again because you are not listening to me. You see in my believe God not only empowers me, But he WILL CONTINUE IT. Because it is HIM and NOT ME
ok first off, where do you get this being hurt stuff? Why do you think I was hurt? I did nto leave the legalism I grew up in because I was hurt, I left it because I saw so many people leave because they could not live up to the standard imposed on them by my church, I saw people who would not even listen to them, because instead of coming with a loving gospel, they came in judgment. This is not about me. What hurt me is I left and became a prodigal son for 5 years, and did alot of damage to my soul and body because of that.
I see things as they truly are my friend. You say I make assumptions, yet you continue to come at me with stuff I do not believe, You still think I do not believe in the power of God to grow me, I still believe I can live in sin and it will not matter, and you still do not think I understand what the power of God can do. If you would listen to what I would say, You would understand I do not believe in any of those things.
Here is what I hate, Not because I was hurt, but because of what it teaches. Anyone who teaches Gods salvation is not eternal. and can be lost is placing their faith in self. And not God. Paul did not spend half of his writings fighting legalism, and teaching eternal life based on the work of God to waste his breath, He did it because he understood the truth.
If ANYONE teaches a different gospel than what we have taught, let him be accursed. Why would paul condemn people for teaching a gospel which even separates from his in ONE WAY, if it was not so damning?
My wife and I, both, have been lead by God, sometimes by personal instruction, as in a voice that we hear very clearly, sometimes by a vision when awake, or a dream when asleep, sometimes by a still small voice or a passing thought, such as a timely scripture. I hear different voices at various times. And I have sought God on discerning these voices.
As to something you can work with concerning this thread,
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [ Not to be recalled or revoked; that cannot be reversed, repealed or annulled; as an irrevocable decree, sentence, edict, doom, fate, or promise] .
Salvation is a gift of God, is it not?
I have seen the ongoing debates concerning salvation by works or once saved always saved and I have sincerely sought God on this matter. And it is a shame that Christ has become a stumbling stone or a rock of offense to not only to the unbelievers but to the church as well. The sword He brought to divide has been used against his own people. The reasons why there are ongoing debates is, I believe, because most only know scripture in part, myself included, or because of misunderstandings of the various denominations interpretations of scripture, or that scripture appears to contradict itself, hence the debate, and another being that people have not sought God with a pure and sincere heart for the truth. If scripture is spiritually discerned, then it is God that has to reveal it to us by the anointing, because if the person you are listening to is not born again, that is that he/she does not have the Spirit of God in him, they will not, nor can they interpret scripture correctly. Generally, one sees scripture in the light of the leader of their church. In other words, as the pastor/preacher believes, so does the congregation or those who look up to them. Even as the children generally believe as their parents do.
I believe the question is not whether salvation is of works or not of works but if the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Ghost abides in your heart or not and if yes then do they go in and out of the person as they walk thru life. If I did something in faith with corresponding works, then yeah, I’m going to heaven this day, verses doing something bad the next, and, well, your goose is cooked if you were to die on that day.
At the same time, I am not saying, once saved always saved, for scripture clearly points contrary to this. So how can you have some scripture saying once saved always saved and others saying that it is possible for you to lose it. There is scripture showing a child of God in sin whom Paul said;
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world [yourselves]. Added for clarity purposes.
Even Paul struggled with sin at one period in his life where it had mastery over him in Romans 7, until Jesus gave him revelation.
Rom 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
In learning how to walk in the Spirit we will eventually overcome those offenses that had mastery over us in the beginning and walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus, which only can be done by the Spirit of God operating in us.
Joh 15:4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5I am the vine, yearethe branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Even if we do good deeds, if it is not done by the Spirit of Christ in us, it will be seen by God as sin for our righteous is not our own but it is Christ who lives in us, He doeth the worksJoh_14:10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Act_17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being;
I believe it is a matter of Christ in us, not of good works or no works. My point is that God does not send babes in Christ [not referring to the female type] to hell. Everything that is not done in faith or every offense you have not let go of, is sin and shows where people's so call righteous or good works really are before God. For you will know them by their fruit.
As to something you can work with concerning this thread,
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [ Not to be recalled or revoked; that cannot be reversed, repealed or annulled; as an irrevocable decree, sentence, edict, doom, fate, or promise] .
Salvation is a gift of God, is it not?
I have seen the ongoing debates concerning salvation by works or once saved always saved and I have sincerely sought God on this matter. And it is a shame that Christ has become a stumbling stone or a rock of offense to not only to the unbelievers but to the church as well. The sword He brought to divide has been used against his own people. The reasons why there are ongoing debates is, I believe, because most only know scripture in part, myself included, or because of misunderstandings of the various denominations interpretations of scripture, or that scripture appears to contradict itself, hence the debate, and another being that people have not sought God with a pure and sincere heart for the truth. If scripture is spiritually discerned, then it is God that has to reveal it to us by the anointing, because if the person you are listening to is not born again, that is that he/she does not have the Spirit of God in him, they will not, nor can they interpret scripture correctly. Generally, one sees scripture in the light of the leader of their church. In other words, as the pastor/preacher believes, so does the congregation or those who look up to them. Even as the children generally believe as their parents do.
I believe the question is not whether salvation is of works or not of works but if the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Ghost abides in your heart or not and if yes then do they go in and out of the person as they walk thru life. If I did something in faith with corresponding works, then yeah, I’m going to heaven this day, verses doing something bad the next, and, well, your goose is cooked if you were to die on that day.
At the same time, I am not saying, once saved always saved, for scripture clearly points contrary to this. So how can you have some scripture saying once saved always saved and others saying that it is possible for you to lose it. There is scripture showing a child of God in sin whom Paul said;
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world [yourselves]. Added for clarity purposes.
Even Paul struggled with sin at one period in his life where it had mastery over him in Romans 7, until Jesus gave him revelation.
Rom 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
In learning how to walk in the Spirit we will eventually overcome those offenses that had mastery over us in the beginning and walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus, which only can be done by the Spirit of God operating in us.
Joh 15:4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5I am the vine, yearethe branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Even if we do good deeds, if it is not done by the Spirit of Christ in us, it will be seen by God as sin for our righteous is not our own but it is Christ who lives in us, He doeth the worksJoh_14:10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Act_17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being;
I believe it is a matter of Christ in us, not of good works or no works. My point is that God does not send babes in Christ [not referring to the female type] to hell. Everything that is not done in faith or every offense you have not let go of, is sin and shows where people's so call righteous or good works really are before God. For you will know them by their fruit.
E
Lol, God loves us enough when we hated him to die for us. So why would we think God is going to expect us to love him "enough" in order to say his love is no longer in application, thus he is going to take his gift back? What would be enough? Would a little love for God not be more than the NO LOVE we had for him when we died for him, and when we trusted him?