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A
I saw good on both sides but if the order is wrong its wrong
also if the motivation is wrong its really wrong
I want to be Holy because Jesus wants me to be and im His bought with a price and
no longer am my own. I cant stand someone who says teaching grace makes me have evil desires
Few know what grace is
Charis=divine enablement. divine influence
Noone can have too much grace
also if the motivation is wrong its really wrong
I want to be Holy because Jesus wants me to be and im His bought with a price and
no longer am my own. I cant stand someone who says teaching grace makes me have evil desires
Few know what grace is
Charis=divine enablement. divine influence
Noone can have too much grace
F
Everyone has their own reasons, and struggles with different things, and differnt areas. Some need to hear about grace, others need to be reproved, have their toes steped on a little bit. Those kind of sermons that made me feel like the preacher was directly speaking to me, helped me repent of things I knew I was not supposed to be doing.
That's why I say their needs to be balance, because God's word can cover any and all of life's struggles.
As far as grace causing someone to have evil desires, dont know about that. The only evil I can see is if one believes grace is a covering for sin. That makes grace and enabler of sin, which is evil to say or think.
That's why I say their needs to be balance, because God's word can cover any and all of life's struggles.
As far as grace causing someone to have evil desires, dont know about that. The only evil I can see is if one believes grace is a covering for sin. That makes grace and enabler of sin, which is evil to say or think.
F
Dont forget their were times when he was a little more straight forward
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you
ANd if you ebelive he wrote Hebrews, then:
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat
Not mean, but like said, straight forward to say the least - lol
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you
ANd if you ebelive he wrote Hebrews, then:
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat
Not mean, but like said, straight forward to say the least - lol
E
No one here teaches one can sin without reproof and correction. Thats your problem, You think we don;t but you do not listen to us when we do. True discipleship we are to confess our sins to each other, and reproof and correct each other.
Non of this matters until one is born again, Until then it is just foolishness to the other person, for the things of God are foolish to those who are not his. Like the fact we can be saved all but by an act of faith in the work of God, it is foolish because you do not believe. You call it easy believing, when you prove just how hard it is. I once heard, it is easy to say we all deserve condemnation for all we will do and will ever do. It is hard to say I DESERVE IT. And there is nothing i can do to change it.
We want to place our entrance into heaven on some line, There are good then their are bad. When the line is Gid, it is Christ, if you do not hit that mark, you fall short. this is what Paul tried to tell you in romans 3. We ALL fall short. But we are justified freely by the grace of God in faith. Jesus paid the price of redemption. WHy you refuse to acknowledge he paid that price in fool just boggles my mind
Non of this matters until one is born again, Until then it is just foolishness to the other person, for the things of God are foolish to those who are not his. Like the fact we can be saved all but by an act of faith in the work of God, it is foolish because you do not believe. You call it easy believing, when you prove just how hard it is. I once heard, it is easy to say we all deserve condemnation for all we will do and will ever do. It is hard to say I DESERVE IT. And there is nothing i can do to change it.
We want to place our entrance into heaven on some line, There are good then their are bad. When the line is Gid, it is Christ, if you do not hit that mark, you fall short. this is what Paul tried to tell you in romans 3. We ALL fall short. But we are justified freely by the grace of God in faith. Jesus paid the price of redemption. WHy you refuse to acknowledge he paid that price in fool just boggles my mind
E
What amazes me to no end, I paul was talking directly at you when he made this statement. Those who want to perfect their salvation by the deeds of the flesh
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[a] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you[b] as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
ANd if you ebelive he wrote Hebrews, then:
Yes he was straitforward. People who should have been teachers, are still babes in Christ. and need fed milk instead the true meat of the word. Yet according to many, these people who remain stagnant and did not grow would not even be saved, or would lose their salvation, because they did not work hard enough to enter rest, or grow, or fight sin, or whatever it is that they say can cause us to lose Gods gift of eternal life
Thats why we rebuke not only a false teaching, But sin. But as God said, and abiding mentioned, we do it in love, not in condemnation. You condemn a man, they will fight you all the way, if You lovingly rebuke in love, they will walk beside you and want to be healed. this is what Christ did
Jesus did not rebuke Peter for denying him three times, He lovingly scolded him by telling him three times to feed his sheep and lambs. And by this loving act of God, and proving to peter that his forgiveness is eternal no matter what, Peter became the rock he said he would be.
A
Yes and reading Peters epistle shows he followed the example of his Lord
5 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble.”[a]
6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
5 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble.”[a]
6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
R
ok sir..you are not reading things right..like i said before..where, oh where did you see me condemning you? Did i say, thou art condemned? Nope..i did not..
So, how can you see if i am blind or seeing..or whatever it is you 'think' that you see? I am saying this in the most non combative manner i can, because i think you, and someone else here sadly think people are out to get them. I am not, i do not know you, i never will on this earth most likely. It is a forum, so i am typing it piece by piece. Read what i said, not what i did not..just like you said i called you a calvnist when i clearly did not..I think you and I are in more agreement than you think, or would want to admit. I believe in resting, but not just resting..believing because God said it, I can..with 'his help' and 'his leading' and 'his enabling me' do these things..Did Father Abraham..Moses, King David and all other great men of faith just rest in him or did they not also step out 'in faith' because faith without works is dead, like it says so in James..Did they not also take the step..so as to say, Ok God, I believe you..so here, I am stepping out..in Faith..I am working with you God..not myself..Not just you, with you..alongside.
How is that works..and how is that wrong? Please answer the question if you can so kindly sir. thank you..
Then comes the second aspect of rest. Learning to trust God in our every day lives. The people who had faith in Isreal learned to trust God, he would take care of their needs, He would defend their enemies. He would do all he promised to do. They were not perfect. but they understood who God was.
We trust him..because we exercise our faith..daily..reading..praying..learning in this walk..it is an active walk. You do not learn by sitting on blessed assurance, clearly that is what you saying, or seem to be saying..that we learn by learning to trust, we grow..in faith..step by step day by day..I agree with this too!
You want to reject the first part of rest. so how can you say you can even possibly enter his rest? Learn what it is before you start condemning people!
Reject what? I am not rejecting anything..You are not hearing me say i rejected anything. I simply said i trust God to enable me to live a right live..that is not meaning i am not a work in progress. But simply having a good church..good theology, feelings of assurance..etc that can only get me so far. I need my own walk, and my own walk with God, this relationship with God..is an active thing in my life. Are you in favor of this form of action? I am sure you are..because most in the OSAS camp can at least believe in having a walk with God, building their relationship with God. Once again, I am your fellow believer here, i am not your enemy..I never ever ever condemned you. You will not find such a post that i said you are going to hell..i simply said you, I and the rest of us had better be sure that we have fruit in our lives..not just theology/assurance..'faith' which without works is not really more than a belief. The demons believe too! ha! so what?
How can I be assured? Because I have the spirit of God in me, And God promised with the spirit, I will bear fruit. Because it is God working in me, Not me working. A fact you can;t comprehend
-huh..how so..I comprehend much more than you think. I do not recall you asking me if i comprehended God's work..but I sincerely do. Are you insinuating those in outside of the OSAS camp are not true believers? You can believe what you wish, i cannot change your mind if you think this..but you are sadly mistaken if that is the case neighbor. And if so..i am truly sorry and feel sorry for you.
Because there are believers in both camps..both OSAS and NON, arminian/reform...catholic/protestant..
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Work out my salvation? You mean the salvation I have? You grossly misinterpret what Paul said here. Everyone who is saved has salvation, and been given the means to be lights in the world. Our job is to be these lights which will draw people to God as God uses us, Paul said we should work out the RESULT of our salvation, and not have our light put out by doing something which would allow people to use those things against us,m and take away from the word of God.
If you do not have salvation, you HAVE NOTHING TO WORK OUT!
---
Misinterpret what?(sorry..i got blue ink here..cannot undo it for some reason..:/)
Is not a joh inclusive with work. I am taking your words..our job, yes..our job! that means we have a job..which means you work..which means you labor.which is not a slavery thing..but out of gratitude..because of what he has done! Ok so if Paul said the result must be worked out, you said before focusing on yourself would take you from Jesus..wait, i smell a small contradiction here( this is not accusing you, see that please..i am simply trying to get where you are coming from..before you get on the defensive hear me out,stick with me here)
Ok so it if is all God, then why would we have a job? Technically would that make it less than a OSAS God's got me gospel? I am asking this to see where you are coming from..this is not a judgement..rather a question as earlier you said, nothing must be done by you, since GOd did it all..so, just rest. Now..you said we got a job to do..so what is it..either you act out your faith? Or you are playing spiritual powerball with your life?
That is not works based salvation to have a job, or work on you, or even say..hey,God is showing me areas..shining light in dark places needing work, and i am ok with that..we should all be. Why be afraid of that??
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cause what you teach is about you. And not about God. You want to put yourself under law. And place your eternal life based on what YOU DO, or what you HOPE You do not do. There are to many I's in your gospel. and there is no I in salvation and no I in grace. When you figure this out, you will finally see God and the true love he has for his children.
----
I teach? Teach what? I am not a pastor..and I am simply reading what i have off the bible..i have shown you scriptures in romans 11..etc..perhaps you overlooked them. This is christian living here, not some 'new teaching' in all honesty. I know..you got burnt, And i am sorry..but does that mean you run the opposite direction and any action means/equates works based salvation? No!!
You can live for God, He said he would empower you to! Read it for yourself..its in your bible! I did not make this us..the denomination i go to did not make this up..its in the same bible..I am not some mormon or jehovahs witness! I am a christian as well!
This is not about 'I's" Its about 'we' Me and God,,and the church..and the body..sadly you make far too many assumptions to see this. If you would simply ask, before you assume..but i think you being hurt has not enabled you to see things as how they truly are..you see through your hurt..through your being burned as you said, by the 'other camp' as you said. As far as me figuring out things sir.
I for one
-am a child of God..
-I know that i know..that i know i have had an experience with him..i need not explain specifics..i know I have seen God's grace
- I also know that no one ever told me before up until recently how Holy God is..how serious this walk with him is, its the real deal. And how possible it is to actually live for him, with his help of course!
-Am truly sorry other christians have given you a bad taste in your mouth regarding anything that looks to be works or what i like to call active christianity..
I am sorry it has made you think others on the other side of christian expression are not of the flock and possibly out to get you, that is not true. It is a lie, and nothing could be further from the truth than this.
that said..i cannot convince you that i too, believe in the same gospel. Only God can..and I for one, do not see you as my enemy..if you trust in, adhere to, and rely on the one, the son..then praise God..maybe one day, even if its in heaven..all these silly forum talks won't matter.
After all, it is not about 'I' its about him.
Be blessed EG.
So, how can you see if i am blind or seeing..or whatever it is you 'think' that you see? I am saying this in the most non combative manner i can, because i think you, and someone else here sadly think people are out to get them. I am not, i do not know you, i never will on this earth most likely. It is a forum, so i am typing it piece by piece. Read what i said, not what i did not..just like you said i called you a calvnist when i clearly did not..I think you and I are in more agreement than you think, or would want to admit. I believe in resting, but not just resting..believing because God said it, I can..with 'his help' and 'his leading' and 'his enabling me' do these things..Did Father Abraham..Moses, King David and all other great men of faith just rest in him or did they not also step out 'in faith' because faith without works is dead, like it says so in James..Did they not also take the step..so as to say, Ok God, I believe you..so here, I am stepping out..in Faith..I am working with you God..not myself..Not just you, with you..alongside.
How is that works..and how is that wrong? Please answer the question if you can so kindly sir. thank you..
Then comes the second aspect of rest. Learning to trust God in our every day lives. The people who had faith in Isreal learned to trust God, he would take care of their needs, He would defend their enemies. He would do all he promised to do. They were not perfect. but they understood who God was.
We trust him..because we exercise our faith..daily..reading..praying..learning in this walk..it is an active walk. You do not learn by sitting on blessed assurance, clearly that is what you saying, or seem to be saying..that we learn by learning to trust, we grow..in faith..step by step day by day..I agree with this too!
You want to reject the first part of rest. so how can you say you can even possibly enter his rest? Learn what it is before you start condemning people!
Reject what? I am not rejecting anything..You are not hearing me say i rejected anything. I simply said i trust God to enable me to live a right live..that is not meaning i am not a work in progress. But simply having a good church..good theology, feelings of assurance..etc that can only get me so far. I need my own walk, and my own walk with God, this relationship with God..is an active thing in my life. Are you in favor of this form of action? I am sure you are..because most in the OSAS camp can at least believe in having a walk with God, building their relationship with God. Once again, I am your fellow believer here, i am not your enemy..I never ever ever condemned you. You will not find such a post that i said you are going to hell..i simply said you, I and the rest of us had better be sure that we have fruit in our lives..not just theology/assurance..'faith' which without works is not really more than a belief. The demons believe too! ha! so what?
How can I be assured? Because I have the spirit of God in me, And God promised with the spirit, I will bear fruit. Because it is God working in me, Not me working. A fact you can;t comprehend
-huh..how so..I comprehend much more than you think. I do not recall you asking me if i comprehended God's work..but I sincerely do. Are you insinuating those in outside of the OSAS camp are not true believers? You can believe what you wish, i cannot change your mind if you think this..but you are sadly mistaken if that is the case neighbor. And if so..i am truly sorry and feel sorry for you.
Because there are believers in both camps..both OSAS and NON, arminian/reform...catholic/protestant..
-------------
Work out my salvation? You mean the salvation I have? You grossly misinterpret what Paul said here. Everyone who is saved has salvation, and been given the means to be lights in the world. Our job is to be these lights which will draw people to God as God uses us, Paul said we should work out the RESULT of our salvation, and not have our light put out by doing something which would allow people to use those things against us,m and take away from the word of God.
If you do not have salvation, you HAVE NOTHING TO WORK OUT!
---
Misinterpret what?(sorry..i got blue ink here..cannot undo it for some reason..:/)
Is not a joh inclusive with work. I am taking your words..our job, yes..our job! that means we have a job..which means you work..which means you labor.which is not a slavery thing..but out of gratitude..because of what he has done! Ok so if Paul said the result must be worked out, you said before focusing on yourself would take you from Jesus..wait, i smell a small contradiction here( this is not accusing you, see that please..i am simply trying to get where you are coming from..before you get on the defensive hear me out,stick with me here)
Ok so it if is all God, then why would we have a job? Technically would that make it less than a OSAS God's got me gospel? I am asking this to see where you are coming from..this is not a judgement..rather a question as earlier you said, nothing must be done by you, since GOd did it all..so, just rest. Now..you said we got a job to do..so what is it..either you act out your faith? Or you are playing spiritual powerball with your life?
That is not works based salvation to have a job, or work on you, or even say..hey,God is showing me areas..shining light in dark places needing work, and i am ok with that..we should all be. Why be afraid of that??
----------
cause what you teach is about you. And not about God. You want to put yourself under law. And place your eternal life based on what YOU DO, or what you HOPE You do not do. There are to many I's in your gospel. and there is no I in salvation and no I in grace. When you figure this out, you will finally see God and the true love he has for his children.
----
I teach? Teach what? I am not a pastor..and I am simply reading what i have off the bible..i have shown you scriptures in romans 11..etc..perhaps you overlooked them. This is christian living here, not some 'new teaching' in all honesty. I know..you got burnt, And i am sorry..but does that mean you run the opposite direction and any action means/equates works based salvation? No!!
You can live for God, He said he would empower you to! Read it for yourself..its in your bible! I did not make this us..the denomination i go to did not make this up..its in the same bible..I am not some mormon or jehovahs witness! I am a christian as well!
This is not about 'I's" Its about 'we' Me and God,,and the church..and the body..sadly you make far too many assumptions to see this. If you would simply ask, before you assume..but i think you being hurt has not enabled you to see things as how they truly are..you see through your hurt..through your being burned as you said, by the 'other camp' as you said. As far as me figuring out things sir.
I for one
-am a child of God..
-I know that i know..that i know i have had an experience with him..i need not explain specifics..i know I have seen God's grace
- I also know that no one ever told me before up until recently how Holy God is..how serious this walk with him is, its the real deal. And how possible it is to actually live for him, with his help of course!
-Am truly sorry other christians have given you a bad taste in your mouth regarding anything that looks to be works or what i like to call active christianity..
I am sorry it has made you think others on the other side of christian expression are not of the flock and possibly out to get you, that is not true. It is a lie, and nothing could be further from the truth than this.
that said..i cannot convince you that i too, believe in the same gospel. Only God can..and I for one, do not see you as my enemy..if you trust in, adhere to, and rely on the one, the son..then praise God..maybe one day, even if its in heaven..all these silly forum talks won't matter.
After all, it is not about 'I' its about him.
Be blessed EG.
R
Ok, go ahead and ignore the accusations and remarks from your camp..and just go ahead and throw darts at me(i am sure used to it by now)
No..i do not know anyone here, honestly few here will i ever get to meet anyways.
Romans 11 speaks of the gentiles, being grafted in..should they brag about this? (are you bragging sir gentile) I sure hope not..read further in romans 11, it warns about you too being cut off, and thus this debunks the OSAS idea.
No one here is saying you are saved by works Abiding.
But you better have fruit in your life..you better have works..otherwise, you are in danger of just having 'good theology' and we all know good theology never saved anybody.
No..i do not know anyone here, honestly few here will i ever get to meet anyways.
Romans 11 speaks of the gentiles, being grafted in..should they brag about this? (are you bragging sir gentile) I sure hope not..read further in romans 11, it warns about you too being cut off, and thus this debunks the OSAS idea.
No one here is saying you are saved by works Abiding.
But you better have fruit in your life..you better have works..otherwise, you are in danger of just having 'good theology' and we all know good theology never saved anybody.
F
What are you talking about? You cant be rebuked remember? You believe (and I quote) "it's not possible for you to ever fall into sin". So what's the point of rebuking you loving or not, you dont need it.
As for being "perfect in salvation" that only belong to one who thinks they are immune to sin would it not? SO you need to cast the beam out of your own eye and stop being so busy trying to pull out the specks of others.
