The False Doctrine of OSAS

cfultz3 · Nov 5, 2012

Will you reread that part again. I was not condemning either to Heaven or Hell. I was saying that our stances are greatly oppssing and to the babes in Christ this is division which couldl cause doubt and perhaps cause them to abandon the faith. Remeber what was said about those who would cause a little one to fall? I am sorry for giving you that impression.

cfultz3 · Nov 5, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Ok EG don't get to deep. I am sure you understood it to mean sinned. But I will leave you along now.

cfultz3 · Nov 5, 2012

Ok .Reread that again . Again I did not say you said this, I was giving my conclusion to the matter

loveme1 · Nov 5, 2012

Let us all follow our Good Shepherd.

Why will you consider for too long on who is, or is not a fellow sheep based on different theology?

Is your understanding based on your own relationship with the Shepherd?

Witness from your heart... for that is what you know to be true.

We each are known by name, making us individuals to Yahshua the Messiah and Yahvah God...

include or exclude none by your own relationship...

John 10

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? 21Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

40And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode. 41And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. 42And many believed on him there.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

cfultz3 said:

You might not be, But God is, God says there is one gospel. There is not two gospels. or three or four or five, there is but one way to heaven. One of us is right or wrong. or both of us are wrong. but we both can't be right. Thus one of us is trying to get in by the wide gate, not the narrow one.

If they have faith in God, why would this cause them to abandon their faith? If they had true faith, they would not their salvation was secure, no matter what we said. The division is between two gospels. Not between two people, it has been this way since the time of Christ, same argument, different means and words, but same fight.

I am worried about their salvation. That is why I am doing this. If one of is wrong, we lead them to hell. So this, unlike end times theories or other doctrines, is one we MUST GET STRAIGHT. peoples eternity is on the line.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

cfultz3 said:

I am not getting to deep. I am trying to figure out how you can compair adam and eve to abraham, Both sinned, Both did not have a perfect faith. Yet all three will go to heaven. So how can you use them to say one failed and one did not?

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

cfultz3 said:

No, you need to reread again. I HAVE BEEN SAYING THOSE THINGS. And your using what I say to prove me wrong? Again, all it does is show you are not listening to what I said. But assuming you know.

cfultz3 · Nov 5, 2012

To all of those who has Christ as their cental focal point to led others to,

As my next post in the study of 1 Corintians will point out, we all were in error to be in contention with others when, all in all, most had Christ as the main theme. To those who do, take this as my apology and let us all ask God to forgive us for our attempt of destroying another person's ''''''building material'''' they use to build upon the foundation of the Christ.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]KJV 1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]KJV 1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]KJV 1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]KJV 1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1Co 3:12-15 But, if any one does build gold, silver, precious stones, wooden things, herbage, or stalk upon this foundation, know this: each one's work shall cause itself (middle deponent) to be made apparent, seeing that (reason) the Day (Jesus as the Day) will declare it manifested because it is disclosed by fire and that fire will test each one's work to prove of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has build thereupon shall remain , then he will receive a reward for himself (middle deponent). If anyone's work shall be utterly burnt up, he will suffer loss himself, but he will be saved , yet so as through (channel of an act) that fire.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Notes:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]but, if any one does build.... = what one builds upon the foundation of Christ is that which they will be rewarded for. As long as they point to Christ and Him as Savior (the material they use to build) then they, though some might see it as fragile, will be rewarded accordingly, but will nonetheless, still be saved, but without as much reward. Let each man build as He is lead to build upon Christ and let not fellows of Christ destroy what the other is building upon. So, before any one attacks another, know if what they teach has Christ as the central focal point, even the Holy Spirit points to the Christ. Let the Day be the Judge of their reward.[/FONT]

RickShafer · Nov 5, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

It was a joke.
Posted around the time of the mouse running on the top of the hamster wheel.
I was poking fun at a certain ideology.

plussizedstickbug · Nov 5, 2012

I do not think it is a ever a good thing to sow seeds of doubt unto those who have said they are saved.

RickShafer · Nov 6, 2012

I wasn't.
I was sowing seeds of doubt into those who say others aren't saved. - (Judging)

plussizedstickbug · Nov 6, 2012

Yes of course I never had any bad thoughts none of us in Christ are an only child. We are family and in Christ we are all together.
We held together in Him.
He is that tie that binds us like a cord to Him no matter what may be or come we will not be separated not in Him.

RickShafer · Nov 6, 2012

Amen!!!
(I perceive thou are not far from the kingdom of heaven)

GreenNnice · Nov 6, 2012

cfultz3 said:

Foundational salvation. Let's just leave it at , what is your salvation built on?

A moment of faith that greasily, gravely saved you for all eternity. Ya got your ORANGE ticket (or, is it red and yer colorblind

) and you can sin til the cows come home, go do anything ya want cuz yer saved, yer sealed with the Holy Spirit (wasn't their a seal or to broken in Revelation?) and no way God will take itvaway no matter what faith you lose cuz God, YOU must remain FAITHFUL even though I no longer REMAIN FAITHFUL TO YOU !

Or, is you salvation built on a body of work, so to speak. Christ's finished work on the cross saved you but Christ explains that Hid Helper must be received rightfully thereafter, too, to get to hereafter,cans, positive examples of Scripture show one is justified by faith, that 'condemnation is deserved' for the righteous one that becomes unrighteous and becomes s follower of 'falsehood , Romans 3 states.

Hmm, yeah, fall from grace can one? Hmmmm, it is kinda haré fo hold onto something that is greasy feeling. Ewww.

Now, this verse is about as greaseless as grace can get, explaing what is qualifying as receiving the grace of God?

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Now , what aré we tío next?

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

Sos! harsh charge there, eh? Turning the grace of God into a simple, trampling good-fo-go Heaven ticker. With, if that is not trampling God's intended designed for His death on the cross, what is?

More 'grease.'

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled.

What about Esau, who sold His birthright for a bowl of soup.

What happened? Though Esau repented, it could not be undone , the foolishness that he did. Little Jacinto duped big brother !!!

The comparison is that falling out of grace into immorality is akin to Esau's mistake, it cannot be undone. Why warn with such an extreme example if it was not possible? Just another pointless point?

Is the picture unmuddying about OSAS ?

1John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

There is more to salvation foundational building yet yourself to even to being fo a point of 'firé' of 1 Cor. 3:15 than most realize. Without Christ your structural basis, ALAS! you will NEVER get a chance to be saved, 'as though by FIRÉ.'

marianna · Nov 6, 2012

So when will you stop sinning?

eternally-gratefull · Nov 6, 2012

GreenNnice said:

1. Christ - Who paid the price
2. God the father - Who made the promise based on the work of Christ
3. The HS - Who seals me, Teaches me, and shows me I am a child of God.

in other words, God.

why?

I was a sinner, I was an enemy of God. I was alienated by God because of my sin nature and my spiritual death. Thus there was a barrier between myself and God. and I was totally deserving of judgment and condemnation and death.

God saved me because of the first three points I made based on his promise, his work, his leading and his guidance. not to mention his guarantee based on his work.

since then. I am still a sinner, Still deserving of spiritual death, and eternal condemnation. But unlike before, Instread of being an enemy of God. I am a child of God. Instead of having a barrier between myself and God, I have a high priest who I can go to, and thus have access to God wherever I stand. And instead of having fear, as I did before salvation. I have a father who loved me as I was, and takes me as I am, who wants the best for me. And I try to be the best I can. But who will not remove me from his family, because I do not live up to some fake standard you all want to push on me.

and then we have you.

a sinner, an enemy of God and alienated from God because of your sin, deserving of condemnation deserving of eternal death.

You heard about God. you tried to come to him. But you fell short of fully recieving him by faith in him, his work, and his promise

You are still a sinner, always will be, Still deserving of condemnation, although you do not believe it. Instead of trusting God, you trust self. Hoping beyond hope that your good deeds, Your righteous acts, and your great works will be seen by God as worthy of his love, worthy of his forgiveness, and worthy of his eternal blessing. However, since you reject the blood of Christ and the Cross as your sole source of salvation, and are instead trusting in yourself to be able to be good enough to earn this thing God calls a gift. I fear you will stand in front of God one day. I can see you know.

But Lord, I obeyed your laws. I followed your spirit. I did all these great works in your name. You have to save me!

And God will say, depart from me, FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU. Why?

As I said before, Your still a sinner, You will sin until the day you die. just like all of us will. But you rejected the cross. You tried to say it was not good enough, and when Jesus said it was finished, you did not believe him. You felt the need to make yourself righteous before him, and get saved by your own righteousness, and in doing so, rejected the righteousness and justification paid by our Lord, and tried to replace it with your own righteousness.

Sorry to be so blunt. But this is what I see in you. You condemn me because I chose faith in the God of heaven and not in my own works. When you yourself are condemned, and you can't even see it.

RickShafer · Nov 6, 2012

There goes GreenNmean again,
winning friends and influencing people.

psychomom · Nov 6, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

I just found that so lovely...
It's ALL about the Promise, and The Promised One.

I think the misunderstanding comes in when those who argue against eternal security mistakenly believe that we do not believe in obedience.
Or that the one who argues for eternal security will abuse it, and God's grace, in sin. May it never be!
We seem to be so close here...I pray the Lord's peace upon all, and an understanding of one another, and especially of Him.

grace and peace, in the love of Jesus,
ellie

ps- Chris- I haven't forgotten my promise. I am waiting on the Lord's wisdom. I hope that's okay.

cfultz3 · Nov 6, 2012

psychomom said:

I think you hit the nail on the head here. As for me, the misunderstanding is that people will say that obedience is not necessary, but yet will say they believe in obedience. The question which continuously pops into my head is always, 'what if one does not REMAIN obedient, what then?' I am not asking this to be answered but giving insight as to the dilemma which keeps me asking that question. If one does not remain obedient to His guidance, what is the Lord to do? LOL, now you got me asking questions to ponder again

Anyhow, this is my way of thinking and naturally the way I see things. So, if obedience is willingness to follow, how then do we loose freewill to not follow? Let me stop here and please people, these are not questions I am asking to be answered, just showing you my deductive reasoning.

As to the rest, Sister, we should always wait, and continue to wait, upon God's Wisdom to be spoken to us before we respond (yes to those who will point this way, I know, even I myself do not always wait upon the wisdom of God).

GreenNnice · Nov 6, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

1. Christ - Who paid the price
2. God the father - Who made the promise based on the work of Christ
3. The HS - Who seals me, Teaches me, and shows me I am a child of God.

in other words, God.

why?

I was a sinner, I was an enemy of God. I was alienated by God because of my sin nature and my spiritual death. Thus there was a barrier between myself and God. and I was totally deserving of judgment and condemnation and death.

God saved me because of the first three points I made based on his promise, his work, his leading and his guidance. not to mention his guarantee based on his work.

since then. I am still a sinner, Still deserving of spiritual death, and eternal condemnation. But unlike before, Instread of being an enemy of God. I am a child of God. Instead of having a barrier between myself and God, I have a high priest who I can go to, and thus have access to God wherever I stand. And instead of having fear, as I did before salvation. I have a father who loved me as I was, and takes me as I am, who wants the best for me. And I try to be the best I can. But who will not remove me from his family, because I do not live up to some fake standard you all want to push on me.

and then we have you.

a sinner, an enemy of God and alienated from God because of your sin, deserving of condemnation deserving of eternal death.

You heard about God. you tried to come to him. But you fell short of fully recieving him by faith in him, his work, and his promise

You are still a sinner, always will be, Still deserving of condemnation, although you do not believe it. Instead of trusting God, you trust self. Hoping beyond hope that your good deeds, Your righteous acts, and your great works will be seen by God as worthy of his love, worthy of his forgiveness, and worthy of his eternal blessing. However, since you reject the blood of Christ and the Cross as your sole source of salvation, and are instead trusting in yourself to be able to be good enough to earn this thing God calls a gift. I fear you will stand in front of God one day. I can see you know.

But Lord, I obeyed your laws. I followed your spirit. I did all these great works in your name. You have to save me!

And God will say, depart from me, FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU. Why?

As I said before, Your still a sinner, You will sin until the day you die. just like all of us will. But you rejected the cross. You tried to say it was not good enough, and when Jesus said it was finished, you did not believe him. You felt the need to make yourself righteous before him, and get saved by your own righteousness, and in doing so, rejected the righteousness and justification paid by our Lord, and tried to replace it with your own righteousness.

Sorry to be so blunt. But this is what I see in you. You condemn me because I chose faith in the God of heaven and not in my own works. When you yourself are condemned, and you can't even see it.

Eg, why condemn me, just stop, I am not condemning you, am I, just the slippery-slope doctrine of OSAS.

RICK, your comments are funny, God bless, I hope , too, to only continue speaking Truth too.
Be fateful, too, for slandetous, mean things said (yoo-hooo, mari, r u listening) are carefully listed by God in scripture through His authors of the things you need not do if you want to enter the kingdom of Heaven. Not judging, just sayin'

The False Doctrine of OSAS

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