Chivalry is not dead

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Jordache

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Gentlemen, at first I'd like to apologize for how women have shamed or trampled you for your chivalrous actions. Some women are just arrogant and consciously avoid chivalry because for some reason they consider it an insult. Others, like myself, have rarely seen it so we avoid it accidentally. It's important to treat a woman delicately with respect and honor. This is not degrading or shameful on either part.
I married a "boy" with very little chivalrous training. But he eventually stopped the FEW things he did do because I was always 10 steps ahead of him. On very special occassions, he would open my door for me. However, I was never raised that boys open girls doors. I didn't even know to wait. Instead I was out and down the street waiting for him to catch up. I'm hindsight, I should have expected
him to be chivalrous.
Many girls are raised by single moms. Even non-feminist moms have to be very independent so often their daughters learn the same. Girls are not really taught to expect chivalry from men. We get no practice. So gentlemen, real men are chivalrous. Real men treat a lady like a lady even when she doesn't know
how to expect it.
 
I'm glad that you have come to this realization. :)

I'm sort of 'forcefully' chivalrous, lol. Cars have remotes that only unlock certain doors, so you have to wait for me to open it. I'll beat you to the door, so that I can open it for you (to buildings). I'll always pay or buy you something I know you like regardless of your negative responses. I'll treat you well even if you hate me for it, and I'll simply wear a smug little smile on my face the whole time. :D
 
Jordache said:
Gentlemen, at first I'd like to apologize for how women have shamed or trampled you for your chivalrous actions. Some women are just arrogant and consciously avoid chivalry because for some reason they consider it an insult. Others, like myself, have rarely seen it so we avoid it accidentally. It's important to treat a woman delicately with respect and honor. This is not degrading or shameful on either part.
I married a "boy" with very little chivalrous training. But he eventually stopped the FEW things he did do because I was always 10 steps ahead of him. On very special occassions, he would open my door for me. However, I was never raised that boys open girls doors. I didn't even know to wait. Instead I was out and down the street waiting for him to catch up. I'm hindsight, I should have expected
him to be chivalrous.
Many girls are raised by single moms. Even non-feminist moms have to be very independent so often their daughters learn the same. Girls are not really taught to expect chivalry from men. We get no practice. So gentlemen, real men are chivalrous. Real men treat a lady like a lady even when she doesn't know
how to expect it.
Click to expand...

If a man opened my car door for me i would wonder if he thought there was something wrong with my arms. I am not a baby i can open my own doors, im not a little flower or whatever women like to think of themselves of.

Not all women are like you Jordache, not all of us want to be babied and coddled like were the Queen of the universe. I have a very strong personality, im very stubborn and like things how i like them. I would be much more flattered by him treating me like im his equal

If a man wants to be that C word i hate, he can grab all that crap i threw up at the top of my closet that i cant reach.

Its a pity when one woman tries to make us all the same, its sending mixed messages.
 
This does lend some insight into the high vs low maintenance of some of the forum goers...
 
I like when men open doors for me and such. I do not expect it, but it gets me blushy if its someone that I like. If I was always treated that way by a boyfriend/husband, I would start to get annoyed.
 
Jordache, I love your thread.. every word! This is a real life problem for me afterhaving a mother that hammered, being a gentleman, into my head for years.

But this issue is not about opening doors and the man walking on the outside when on a sidewalk. A gentleman highly respects the female he is with. Women used to say, "he treats me like a queen". Women don't want that anymore. As NodMyHeadLikeYeah said, "I want to be treated lke an equal".


That's a shame. Now women never experience being made to feel special. If I should treat like I would one of the guys, what would draw me to go out with you or ever be romantic?

These days, I've found women to not only want to be as equals, but there is a very competetive attitude as well. It's difficult to be tender and sensitive to her needs when she's trying to compete.

Well, this is my story. I'm going to go check my friends list and see how many women have checked out.
 
chivalry is dead...good manners dont go out of style. I don't care who is near me, if there is someone else walking towards a door that im going to, then ill hold it open for them, male or female its just called being polite. Same thing with like giving up a seat to an elderly person or helping some move something heavy. Implying these things are somehow required or expected based on your sex? yeah thats not how it works.
 
It's been really interesting to see the points of view expressed here, and I agree with many points made by both sides.

I suppose that makes me some kind of hybrid!

I very much appreciate chivalrous acts. I know I'm not equal to a man in some areas--as a future wife, I know I'll be a helpmate to a leader, but hopefully he will be someone kind and considerate and will not try to lord over me. I also hope that he will realize that we both have talents and must support each other in the best use of them. As with anything else, I think there is a balance.

1. My ex-husband grew up in a very unsafe place. Early on in our relationship, he did not like me going to the grocery store by myself, especially since a girl was kidnapped by gunpoint at the very store we used to shop at in the middle of the day. Sometimes it got a little overbearing that he wanted to always go with me (I know, some women would kill for that) but in my heart, I was thankful that he cared.

2. I had a high school boyfriend who was chivalrous but unwilling to admit that I might be better at some things than him. He was terrible with money and never listened to my suggestions. Not that I'm a guru but he refused to let me lead in that area even though he knew I was better at it. It didn't surprise me when he had to file for personal bankruptcy a few years later.

3. There is a lot of heavy lifting and carrying things up ladders where I work. I'm very thankful that my male co-workers are mindful of the fact that I'm smaller and are very willing to help out if I think I can't handle something. I most certainly know that in this case, I am not their equal and am glad they recognize it as well.

While I'm no dainty flower, I appreciate it when a man is CONSIDERATE. I love it when a guy is THOUGHTFUL without being BELITTLING.

Thanks, guys, and don't give up :). This is where communication is key--this might be a great subject for a first date or conversation--asking the person what their definition and experiences of chivalry have been, because everyone's seems to be a little different nowadays. :)
 
Chivalry is my about treating women as less. It's sad that women in today's society think that's what it is. God created women special. Like it or not ladies, men are stronger than us. It's ther job to lead and protect. You can be equal and bettered like a lady also. Chivalry is not just politeness.
 
Sometimes its awkward when you're in no hurry to get to the door and someones holding the door for you a mile away...I wanted to dawdle and drag my feet, now I have to jog!

Sometimes Ill get on the elevator and frantically hit the close button so I can hurry up and get to my floor before anyone can step on and slow me down. Its selfish, but I'm always cutting it real close with being on time.

I appreciate acts of kindness, and it definitely catches my attention, but I don't demand white glove treatment.
 
I wasn't going to read this thread, but I'm glad that I did. I'm sort of surprised by the response of the woman who didn't like chivalry. I'm a little rough around the edges, ( just a masculine guy ). I get fussed at a lot by women. I'm too this or too that. So ladies let me ask you. How would you like us to raise our sons? You know, the little guys that will be around your daughters. Chivalry or no chivalry? ( no in between please )
 
Boys should be taught to protect girls. I don't mean it as a blanket statement, but boys are stronger and more logical by nature. God created woman second because man had a responsibility over her. Little boys should be taught to open doors, take the bill, defend and protect, stand up for the purity of, and fight for girls and anyone who is weaker. This doesn't mean women can't carry heavy objects and open their own doors, but I believe their is dangerous arrogance in never allowing a man to be chivalrous with you simply because you can do it yourself. Little boys should be taught to speak gently and listen. We're training future husbands here. There's nothing wrong with a little
boy learning to complement appropriately.
 
I don't have a problem either way. I like helping women but I also really like Independent women that don't need me for much. It makes me feel better about everything that I do, knowing that I didn't need to do it but, I did it anyways.

It could even turn into a playful game. Like heart, Mickey Mouse or Country shaped pancakes. Or a race to the car with shopping carts.

People who take themselves too seriously are never seen doing ^this^


What I do have a problem with is, when it isn't about Chivalry anymore and it becomes about Control. When it turns from a voluntary act of gentle kindness into an Obligatory act of submission. It ceases being about love. It isn't fun anymore. Its simply obeying an order.
 
Hmm, I'm conflicted now. Maybe a good answer is depends? I don't anymore, I am no help to men in this thread *backs away*
 
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flight316 said:
I wasn't going to read this thread, but I'm glad that I did. I'm sort of surprised by the response of the woman who didn't like chivalry. I'm a little rough around the edges, ( just a masculine guy ). I get fussed at a lot by women. I'm too this or too that. So ladies let me ask you. How would you like us to raise our sons? You know, the little guys that will be around your daughters. Chivalry or no chivalry? ( no in between please )
Click to expand...

Teach your sons to be strong men of faith, true to their word, and to ask God to give them wisdom and discernment in every area of their lives. (Same is true for the daughters. ;))
 
Chivalry has definitely changed now that women compete directly with men for jobs, promotions, money, power, and authority but I wouldn't call it dead.
 
ok so from a history stand point the opening of doors and pulling out of chairs for women started because doors and chairs in a castle was pretty big and made out of heavy wood so they actually had hard time doing so, then it turned into a courtesey thing then chivalry ....

but now we live in an age of independance with light door even doors that open for you!
someone mentioned central locking on a car usually the girls stand at the door waiting for u to hit that button and automatically they get in.

i grew up in an age where it doesnt bother me either way, like i was still taught to be chivalrous by my parents like opening car doors, walking curbside on the foot path etc and will still do that but if they want to open it themselves then they can still do as well im down with it, i wouldnt think any less or more of them either way, its very neutral of me but just the way it goes.

and theres also nothing wrong in having good manners like holding doors open for the elderly or for a dad or mum whos juggling kids and would have trouble opening the door, giving up seats etc
 
ok so from a history stand point the opening of doors and pulling out of chairs for women started because doors and chairs in a castle was pretty big and made out of heavy wood so they actually had hard time doing so, then it turned into a courtesey thing then chivalry ....

but now we live in an age of independance with light door even doors that open for you!
someone mentioned central locking on a car usually the girls stand at the door waiting for u to hit that button and automatically they get in.

i grew up in an age where it doesnt bother me either way, like i was still taught to be chivalrous by my parents like opening car doors, walking curbside on the foot path etc and will still do that but if they want to open it themselves then they can still do as well im down with it, i wouldnt think any less or more of them either way, its very neutral of me but just the way it goes.

and theres also nothing wrong in having good manners like holding doors open for the elderly or for a dad or mum whos juggling kids and would have trouble opening the door, giving up seats etc
 
This is my rule of thumb. A lady gets treated like a lady by me....period. That isn't to say that I plan on treating her like a little fragile princess, but a lady. I've been known to pick up women and set them into my truck rather than watch them struggle to climb in (my former fiance had a bad hip) and I've been know to politely tell a woman off who dind't want to be treated like a lady. If a woman can't handle simple politeness from me chances are she won't treat me with respect either from my experience.
 
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