Revelation 20:1-10 discussion

[peterT]

I would Peter, but i dont think it would do any good.

You’ve got to think outside the box mate, It’s not just me reading this thread.

What do you mean when you say you would? Does that mean you could show scripture that the devil is bound NOW, and that you could show scripture that we are ruling NOW as kings and priests without are rewards and the crown of righteousness, that he brings when he comes?

I think when you say you would, I think it means, you wood if you could but you can’t

 

[eternally-gratefull]

okay EG.
nuff said.
i dunno how the subject got to The Law, but...anyways,

z

it was not about the law. it was the time period from abraham to Christ I was talking about. which was called the time of the law. or law and prophets

 

[zone]

You are asking people for actual scripture, Do you have any actual scripture, NO not one verse saying the devil is bound NOW and we are reigning on the earth with Christ as kings and priests NOW . NO

Do you have any actual scripture saying the devil is bound now, because we have shown scripture that he is loose and goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

I am open for suggestions who we rule over. As far as I can see the five foolish virgins don’t take the mark and don’t get in, so I think we rule over them. And the other people that are left that don’t take the mark of the beast, we rule over them I would think

We rule as kings and priests on the earth with Christ a 1000 years that’s what the Bible says. BUT he brings his rewards with him, the crowns of righteousness unto all them also that love his appearing.


Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


You don’t get to be kings and priests until after Jesus comes and give his rewards the crown of righteousness, then we can rule as kings and priests with Christ on the earth


8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

okay peter.
thank you.
zone

 

[peterT]

okay peter.
thank you.
zone

You’re welcome Zone.

But I wish you would fight a little bit harder Zone, and show some scripture showing your doctrine that the devil is bound NOW and not loose and walking about, and sealed in a pit NOW

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

And how does one reign with Christ as kings and priests on the earth without are crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day?

8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

[zone]

You’re welcome Zone.

But I wish you would fight a little bit harder Zone, and show some scripture showing your doctrine that the devil is bound NOW and not loose and walking about, and sealed in a pit NOW

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

And how does one reign with Christ as kings and priests on the earth without are crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day?

nah peter.
we need to understand what is meant by bound. among other things.

s'okay.

we are all learning.
i might post some outside sources for your consideration if you like.
lots of study material saying what i've said.
but usually some ppl get bent out of shape over that (outside sources).
lemme know.

 

[unclefester]

Taken from the following link for those interested. A five minute (and strongly recommended) read.

Apologetics Press - Will There be a "Rapture"?

If Christians are to be removed seven years before the “Revelation” or “Coming” of Christ, then no passage should speak of Christians remaining on Earth until the “Revelation.” However, many passages do just that . For example, in Titus 2:13, Paul referred to the “blessed hope” and the “appearing” as one and the same event, i.e., Christ’s coming. In the original language, the two substantives, “hope” and “appearing” (epiphaneia) are closely linked by the common article. They are not two separate events, as if to be read: “Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing.” Rather, the text is saying, “looking for the blessed hope and appearing.” The one explains the other. The “blessed hope” of Christians is “the glorious appearing” of Christ. Other examples would be 1 Peter 1:13 and 4:13, where the grace on which the Christian is to set his hope is to be received at the “revelation” (apokalupsei) of Christ, at which time the Christian may rejoice. But, according to dispensationalism, the Christian should rejoice seven years earlier at the rapture.

Further, the use of the word “end” comes from a word that refers to “full end” and, in the New Testament, always refers to the end of the world, i.e., the Judgment day (see Boettner, p. 168-169). In Matthew 28:20, Jesus promised to be with the disseminators of the Gospel message to the very “end.” This means the church will remain on the Earth, preaching the Gospel, until the Judgment Day. But if the church is “raptured away” seven years before the end, she cannot fulfill what Christ commanded her to do! In Matthew 13:39-40, there is no removal of the saints before the “full end.” The righteous and the wicked grow together until the very end. The separation of the two comes at the end (not seven years before the end). The dispensationalist claims that the righteous will be taken out from among the wicked. But the Bible says just the opposite: the wicked will be taken out from among the righteous (Matthew 13:39-40).

The doctrine of the “Rapture” asserts that believers will be raised seven years before the “Revelation,” and 1,007 years before the end of the “Millennium.” But in four separate verses, Jesus Himself said believers will be raised “at the last day” (John 6:39,40,44,54). There can be no other days after the last day. So the believers cannot be raised at an alleged “Rapture” before the last day.

Finally, the Second Coming of Christ is nowhere depicted as secret, as the “Rapture” advocates affirm. In fact, just the opposite is true. Christ’s coming will be accompanied by “blazing fire” (2 Thessalonians 1:7), the sound of a trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:52), a “shout,” the “voice of the archangel,” and the “trump of God” (1 Thessalonians 4:16). In fact, “every eye will see Him” (Revelation 1:7). These passages show that all persons everywhere will see and hear this event. In fact, the very passage upon which the doctrine of the “Rapture” is founded (i.e., 1 Thessalonians 4:16),... far from describing a quiet and secretive event, is about the noisiest verse in the Bible!

When one is willing to remove from the mind all preconceived, complex, and sensational theological concoctions, and simply let the Bible present its own portrait of the end of time and the Second Coming of Christ, the dispensational viewpoint of a postulated “Rapture” is seen to be totally unfounded.[/SIZE]

 

[dru]

I im a pre-trib christian(not that its a big deal because either way both pre and post tribulation christians end up in heaven) my question is,will the battle of gog and magog happen after the millenium of peace,(if so,what about the battle after the seven year tribulation)and where will the peoplee we rule over with Christ come from and will those 'subjects'be able to see Jesus and us
Lastly,will we be able to leave the new world and explore the universe(what kind of things wull we be able to do)?

 

[unclefester]

I hope this is somewhat on topic ? If not, my apologies Zone. You know I love ya

 

[dru]

oopss,got to work on my typing/english,

 

[peterT]

nah peter.
we need to understand what is meant by bound. among other things.

s'okay.

we are all learning.
i might post some outside sources for your consideration if you like.
lots of study material saying what i've said.
but usually some ppl get bent out of shape over that (outside sources).
lemme know.

But bound is not the only word that expresses what happens to him.

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him.

If you are going to explain the word bound to make is sound like he’s and NOT walking about seeking whom he may devour, then you have to also explain how he is shut him up and sealed in a bottomless pit, because that’s where he will be in that 1000 years.

Do you riley think you are ruling as kings and priests NOW without your crowns? And without your rewards and your allocations and the jobs we will be allotted, which ones are the kings and which ones are the priests?, we haven’t even got are crowns yet. It sounds like the cart before the horse.

We can't even rule are own house Zone and we are defiantly not ruling with Christ with that rod of iron.

Yes we are all learning ME TOO

 

[peterT]

I im a pre-trib christian(not that its a big deal because either way both pre and post tribulation christians end up in heaven)?

I kind of hate to be the one to try burst your bubble, but there is no pre-tribulation coming.

There is no event in the bible showing Jesus coming before the great tribulation.

There is no last trumpet in the Bible before the great tribulation.

There is no raising the dead in the Bible before the great tribulation.

There is no Jesus coming in the clouds in the Bible before the great tribulation.

There is nothing in the Bible showing Jesus coming before the great tribulation.

Have you ever seen a scripture in the Bible were Jesus comes before the great tribulation?

There is no pre-tribulation coming you have been lied too

But there is plenty of scripture saying jesus comes 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



..

 

[zone]

Taken from the following link for those interested. A five minute (and strongly recommended) read.

Apologetics Press - Will There be a "Rapture"?

If Christians are to be removed seven years before the “Revelation” or “Coming” of Christ, then no passage should speak of Christians remaining on Earth until the “Revelation.” However, many passages do just that . For example, in Titus 2:13, Paul referred to the “blessed hope” and the “appearing” as one and the same event, i.e., Christ’s coming. In the original language, the two substantives, “hope” and “appearing” (epiphaneia) are closely linked by the common article. They are not two separate events, as if to be read: “Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing.” Rather, the text is saying, “looking for the blessed hope and appearing.” The one explains the other. The “blessed hope” of Christians is “the glorious appearing” of Christ. Other examples would be 1 Peter 1:13 and 4:13, where the grace on which the Christian is to set his hope is to be received at the “revelation” (apokalupsei) of Christ, at which time the Christian may rejoice. But, according to dispensationalism, the Christian should rejoice seven years earlier at the rapture.

Further, the use of the word “end” comes from a word that refers to “full end” and, in the New Testament, always refers to the end of the world, i.e., the Judgment day (see Boettner, p. 168-169). In Matthew 28:20, Jesus promised to be with the disseminators of the Gospel message to the very “end.” This means the church will remain on the Earth, preaching the Gospel, until the Judgment Day. But if the church is “raptured away” seven years before the end, she cannot fulfill what Christ commanded her to do! In Matthew 13:39-40, there is no removal of the saints before the “full end.” The righteous and the wicked grow together until the very end. The separation of the two comes at the end (not seven years before the end). The dispensationalist claims that the righteous will be taken out from among the wicked. But the Bible says just the opposite: the wicked will be taken out from among the righteous (Matthew 13:39-40).

The doctrine of the “Rapture” asserts that believers will be raised seven years before the “Revelation,” and 1,007 years before the end of the “Millennium.” But in four separate verses, Jesus Himself said believers will be raised “at the last day” (John 6:39,40,44,54). There can be no other days after the last day. So the believers cannot be raised at an alleged “Rapture” before the last day.

Finally, the Second Coming of Christ is nowhere depicted as secret, as the “Rapture” advocates affirm. In fact, just the opposite is true. Christ’s coming will be accompanied by “blazing fire” (2 Thessalonians 1:7), the sound of a trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:52), a “shout,” the “voice of the archangel,” and the “trump of God” (1 Thessalonians 4:16). In fact, “every eye will see Him” (Revelation 1:7). These passages show that all persons everywhere will see and hear this event. In fact, the very passage upon which the doctrine of the “Rapture” is founded (i.e., 1 Thessalonians 4:16),... far from describing a quiet and secretive event, is about the noisiest verse in the Bible!

When one is willing to remove from the mind all preconceived, complex, and sensational theological concoctions, and simply let the Bible present its own portrait of the end of time and the Second Coming of Christ, the dispensational viewpoint of a postulated “Rapture” is seen to be totally unfounded.[/SIZE]

yay! outside sources confirm my simpleton postulations!
zoney likes it, fes!

 

[Bookends]

Where do we get a 7 tribulation in the last days from?

 

[peterT]

Where do we get a 7 tribulation in the last days from?

I don’t know where they get a 7 year tribulation from Bookends

There is no 7 year tribulation just 3 ½ years, you have to go back and look at what Jesus said in Matt24.
Jesus said

Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
21 For then shall be great tribulation,

Now go to Daniel and see what Jesus was talking about.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

A week is seven years

In the middle of that 7 year covenant or agreement that’s when the great tribulation will begin

Gen29:28And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.
29And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.
30And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.

All this is conformed in the book of revelation, as it all talks about a 3 ½ time line or 1260 days or 42 months or time, times, and half time.

It’s a 7 year agreement or covenant, and in the middle of the 7 years then shall be great tribulation

Which = 3 ½ years or 1260 days or 42 months or time, times, and half time.
Its 3 ½ years of Great tribulation not 7 years.

 

[Bookends]

I don’t know where they get a 7 year tribulation from Bookends

There is no 7 year tribulation just 3 ½ years, you have to go back and look at what Jesus said in Matt24.
Jesus said

Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
21 For then shall be great tribulation,

Now go to Daniel and see what Jesus was talking about.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

A week is seven years

In the middle of that 7 year covenant or agreement that’s when the great tribulation will begin

Gen29:28And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.
29And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.
30And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.

All this is conformed in the book of revelation, as it all talks about a 3 ½ time line or 1260 days or 42 months or time, times, and half time.

It’s a 7 year agreement or covenant, and in the middle of the 7 years then shall be great tribulation

Which = 3 ½ years or 1260 days or 42 months or time, times, and half time.
Its 3 ½ years of Great tribulation not 7 years.

Bahh, I"m pretty sure that Daniel's prophecies pertain to the 4 Satanic kingdoms, and mostly the 3rd one (the Maccabean period)...and predicts Christ death...and then Revelation picks up where Daniel leaves off. People just don't know how to link prophecy with history.

Sorry Zone, its off topic.

 

[peterT]

Bahh, I"m pretty sure that Daniel's prophecies pertain to the 4 Satanic kingdoms, and mostly the 3rd one (the Maccabean period)...and predicts Christ death...and then Revelation picks up where Daniel leaves off. People just don't know how to link prophecy with history.

Sorry Zone, its off topic.

The problem with that is Jesus was talking about the end of the world and his coming in the clouds in Matt24

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Considering Jesus was talking and his coming in the clouds at the end of the world and the angels reaping at the sound of a trumpet, and one shall be taken, and the other left, and look up for your redemption draweth nigh.

And Considering the angels are the reapers in the Bible at the end of the world, and jesus comes at the sound of a trumpet in the Bible, and gathers them together from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


So when he says look to Daniel to see when tribulation would begin, how is Daniel fulfilled?

For he is the one that said look in the book of Daniel

Matt13:39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mark13:27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[zone]

Where do we get a 7 tribulation in the last days from?

the GAP theory
another one

 

[zone]

Bahh, I"m pretty sure that Daniel's prophecies pertain to the 4 Satanic kingdoms, and mostly the 3rd one (the Maccabean period)...and predicts Christ death...and then Revelation picks up where Daniel leaves off. People just don't know how to link prophecy with history.

Sorry Zone, its off topic.

no Bookends...its not off topic.

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream
31“You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36“This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

~

And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever

just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold

~

Psalm 118:22
The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;

Isaiah 28:16
So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Mark 12:9
"What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.

 

[zone]

I hope this is somewhat on topic ? If not, my apologies Zone. You know I love ya

i know ya do.
and i you.

 

[zone]

Daniel 2
41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.

ex:

Herod Antipas
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Herod Antipas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click