Christians are Israel

[Colours]

In otherwords, Jesus was BINDED to die for the sins and wrongdoings of humanity. bound to the church.

And in turn, humanity is bound to God as his creation. The bride of God. Israel. But we must first be cleansed.

Just like Eve was made from Adam and then bound to Him. So we were made from God and are bound to him.

Take sex totally out of the equation. Sex is just the means for a bond of FLESH. But there is no 'flesh' were we're headed.

 

[Abiding]

lol. I will take the freindly slam as a good friend.. But I think I supported my view quite well. In fact, as I showed, The things you responded with do not even make sense.


I just went back and looked. I did not see anything where you responded to the fact that posses does not mean own. can you show it to me? I will be glad to look. And the case is not closed. It will not get closed until you figure out why there are swo many inconsistancies with your interpretations, and what is actually said in jer 30

EG i didnt give any views...that was your gig. I stayed with just the scriptures

im eating chicken u find it....i showed a few other errors that you didnt catch.

The point about possess..the hebrew meaning is to occupy...not own...own is a different Hebrew word.
Its easy to look up.

Yes we are always friendly. Thats the way it should be....with a few jabs tho just cuz were guys.

 

[Colours]

When you see marriage in the context of God, just think 'emotional bond'.

Marriage is too caught up in sex and it complicates the whole thing too much.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Two covenants huh? Hebrews doesnt agree neither do quite a few other scriptures,
Israel came through Christ which is what was always intended since gen3. The old
covenant was abolished...faded away Heb 8:7-13

The church is Israel only in the light of being grafted in. The church didnt replace Israel
the Church joined Israel, is Israel.. Eph 2:11-22 made up of "true" Israelites Rom 9:6-9 and gentiles
one man. The commonwealth of Israel.

Abiding You didn't address the MARRIAGE issues I presented... can you please?

Sorry colours... You have little influence to me for your "WEIRD" take on the jewish customs I presented earlier... which are a matter of fact. So while I won't say you are ENTIRELY wrong... Your Theological Understanding is highly suspect to me.

 

[BarlyGurl]

When you see marriage in the context of God, just think 'emotional bond'.

Marriage is too caught up in sex and it complicates the whole thing too much.

Now you have convinced me to disregard ALL YOU SAY.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG i didnt give any views...that was your gig. I stayed with just the scriptures

im eating chicken u find it....i showed a few other errors that you didnt catch.

Can you show them to me? And yes you did give views. that babylon was th enations God punished, and used to cause jacob trouble.. which I showed could not be the case.

The point about possess..the hebrew meaning is to occupy...not own...own is a different Hebrew word.
Its easy to look up.

point taken. I will look it up.

However, how about the rest of the points which God would said they would get when they occupy the land?

Like this.

verse 8: Foreigners shall no more enslave them. Were they not still enslaved by the medes and persions, then the greeks, then the romans until they were destroyed in 70 AD?

And does not the term (no more) mean never again??


9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,

Did they serve God for the time of the return until they were destroyed? they could not have, God was still putting an end to their sin as seen in daniel 9 during this time period.. There sin would culminate in the cutting off of the messiah and the destruction of the city and temple was it not?

vs 10: And your seed from the land of their captivity. Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.

did this happen when they were returned from Exile from the babylons (actually the medes and persions, who let them back) Did they live in peace. Did they live in quiet (they had to get permission to rebuild the temple. and rebuild the city, and they still served puppet kings, and had to get permision to do anything) and did they not live in fear because of this.

i will grant, possess might not mean own, i will not know till I get home and look it up. But you habe to admit, none of these things which God said would happen when they returned happened when they returned, in fact, to this day it has not happened.

Yes we are always friendly. Thats the way it should be....with a few jabs tho just cuz were guys.

heck yes!! And you should know from what happened with someone thread that is no longer around, i will still back you guys up when you are wronged! because your my brothers and sisters!!

 

[Colours]

Now you have convinced me to disregard ALL YOU SAY.

Tell me, what has made you act so rudely?

Is it that I see earthly marriage as an emotional bond and commitment between man and woman, first and foremost, before sex? A bond of love?

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Is it that I disregard the idea that God can be incestuous in his marriage to Israel and its tribes? 'God cannot endure to look toward iniquity'

That sex has no part of God's marriage to Israel? That marriage of man and woman are obsolete after death? Galatians 3:28 and For your Maker is your husband—the Lord Almighty is His name—the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; He is called the God of all the earth

That Marriage to God is non-sexual? That Christ's bond is to the Church, the relationship between man and God?

Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb [Jesus] has come and His bride has made herself ready."

That men rise after death and are cleansed by fire and spirit?

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

and

Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? - DENOMINATIONALISM

5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

That God's bride must be pure and undefiled by sins?

that Jesus was the means to accomplish this?

'For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.'

None of what I have said is a lie.

 

[crossnote]

I tell people alot if america is being blessed for supporting Israel can we please
stop soon? since '48 till now....im scared we cant afford anymore of these blessings of Abraham

Oslo wasn't exactly blessing Israel. Since the 70's we have been pressuring them to give up land for so called peace.

 

[Abiding]

Abiding You didn't address the MARRIAGE issues I presented... can you please?

Sorry colours... You have little influence to me for your "WEIRD" take on the jewish customs I presented earlier... which are a matter of fact. So while I won't say you are ENTIRELY wrong... Your Theological Understanding is highly suspect to me.

I was gona give quick statement...then decided to take a nap and make
a possibly intellegent post...which isnt usually my style.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ok, as I promised when I got home, I would look up the word "possess" as used in the hebrew in Jer 30: 8

the word is used as a "perfect" tense verb,, meaning it is a one time act with is perfected (will last forever)

The word is as follows:

3769 I. יָרַשׁ (yā·rǎ&#353: v. [see also 3456.5]; ≡ Str 3423; TWOT 920—1. LN 57.125–57.141 (qal) be an heir, i.e., gain the possessions of an inheritance, received by ancestral agreement, or some other agreement (Nu 36:8); (hif) give as an inheritance (2Ch 20:11); 2. LN 57.55–57.70 (qal) dispossess, i.e., displace one from one’s property, taking by military force, which may or not be rightfully one’sing. inheritance, implying a loss of economic means and benefit (Dt 2:12, 21, 22, 29; 19:1; Jer 49:2); (hif) drive out (Ex 34:24); 3. LN 57.49–57.54 (nif) become destitute, be poor, i.e., not have possessions and resources necessary for a normal life-style, or possibly even bare essentials (Ge 45:11; Pr 20:13; 23:21; 30:9+); (hif) make destitute, send poverty (1Sa 2:7); 4. LN 57.1–57.21 (piel) take possession, i.e., have control of an object for one’s use (Dt 28:42+); 5. LN 57.232–57.248 (piel) steal, rob, i.e., take a possession by force, deception, or false pretense (Jdg 14:15+); 6. LN 20.31–20.60 (hif) destroy, i.e., ruin an object by force (Ex 15:9); 7. LN 23.40–23.45 (hif) vomit, i.e., disgorge the stomach of objects by mild, bodily convulsions, as an extension of dislodging a possession (Job 20:15), note: for another parsing in Ps 34:11[EB 10]; Pr 10:4; 13:7, see 8133; note: for n.masc. in 2Sa 14:7; Jer 8:10; Isa 49:1a, 2b; Mic 1:15+, see 3456.5

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

As we can see. Taking by military force (in other words, the ones possessing the land are driven out) and gaining as an inheritance (which is in use here, because this land was an inheritance given to the nation of Isreal) and to take possession by having CONTROL of said item (in this case the land given their fathers..

All these things support what I said earlier..God said when this happens, he will drive the gentiles out, and give what is rightfully owned by Isreal, and they will possess (control) it. Only it will not be by military force, it will be by God himself.

I also wanted to take a look at one more item, out of my curiosity..

in verse 8. It says the foregners shall no longer enslave them..

the hebrew terms mean that there will no longer be a continual act of what was being said. in other words, the continual act of the enslavement of Isreal as slaves would cease to exist.

As I said earlier, even when Isreal returned, she was still enslaved. Even up till the time of AD 70 when rome took her land, and spread her throughout its territory as slaves as the state. in which they remain even as of today.

 

[peterT]

All I am saying is that the wheat and tares are not 'here and there', or 'him vs him'. They are within you.

Wickedness is a part of you. As it is a part of me. I can be wicked. I have that ability. Some have it more than others. So some will suffer greater loss than others.

It is impossible to say that just because I believe myself to be 'born again', that my inability to be wicked is gone. Because it is not.

Sometimes my anger precedes me.

None are good.

Wheat and tares, your joking right

You might think the tares might be in you bro, but they are not in me

For he has made me a new creature in Christ Jesus

And washed me whiter than snow

And what fellowship hath light with darkness.

And what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
John 8:12 | Read whole chapter | See verse in context Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

 

[peterT]

I never said he was writing to unbelieving Jews, so why would you speculate I did? I am not putting up a wall of anything. he is writing to those of the 12 tribes who were scattered abroad who were believing jews and part of a church.

it is not us who are putting up a barrier. it is you guys.. assuming we are talking about all jews. and not just saved ones.

To have respect of parsons is a sin.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

When James addressed the 12 tribes he was speaking to the church the Christian faith.

Otherwise he was not only speaking to the Christian Jew, but he was speaking to a particular blood line of the Christian Jews, for not all the Jews had the blood line and were of the 12 tribes.

God spoke through James, and God would not segregate and serpent and only speak to a particular flesh, for we are all made prefect in one in him, and there is only one body the church, and we all drink from the same spiritual drink

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To have respect of parsons is a sin.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

When James addressed the 12 tribes he was speaking to the church the Christian faith.

Otherwise he was not only speaking to the Christian Jew, but he was speaking to a particular blood line of the Christian Jews, for not all the Jews had the blood line and were of the 12 tribes.

God spoke through James, and God would not segregate and serpent and only speak to a particular flesh, for we are all made prefect in one in him, and there is only one body the church, and we all drink from the same spiritual drink

Your joking right? Respect of persons? James was a child of Isreal. He was one of the heads of the church in Jerusalem. Where I am sure many from Isreal were saved under his watch, even during their times where they came to Jerusalem. I am sure he sent many of these people back to their homelands and felt a special bond with them.. It is not being a respector of persons for him to write a personal letter to those he loved. his kin folk.

When Paul wrote to the church in rome, was a disrespecting the church of Ephesus and other churches because he addressed Rome only? No.. so you should see how bad your reasoning is.

He addressed rome, but what he told them also has application to us, even though his letter was not addressed to us. Same Goes with James. He was disrespecting no one.

 

[peterT]

All I am saying is that the wheat and tares are not 'here and there', or 'him vs him'. They are within you.

Wickedness is a part of you. As it is a part of me. I can be wicked. I have that ability. Some have it more than others. So some will suffer greater loss than others.

It is impossible to say that just because I believe myself to be 'born again', that my inability to be wicked is gone. Because it is not.

Sometimes my anger precedes me.

None are good.

The tares are the children of the wicked one.

Half-hearted so called Christians that say they are the wheat

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

 

[peterT]

Your joking right? Respect of persons? James was a child of Isreal. He was one of the heads of the church in Jerusalem. Where I am sure many from Isreal were saved under his watch, even during their times where they came to Jerusalem. I am sure he sent many of these people back to their homelands and felt a special bond with them.. It is not being a respector of persons for him to write a personal letter to those he loved. his kin folk.

When Paul wrote to the church in rome, was a disrespecting the church of Ephesus and other churches because he addressed Rome only? No.. so you should see how bad your reasoning is.

He addressed rome, but what he told them also has application to us, even though his letter was not addressed to us. Same Goes with James. He was disrespecting no one.

There is only one spiritual drink and all that have the faith can drink from it and it’s not to a particular flesh within a particular people.

Otherwise that would be showing respect to persons which is a sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is only one spiritual drink and all that have the faith can drink from it and it’s not to a particular flesh within a particular people.

Otherwise that would be showing respect to persons which is a sin.

Fine then. When paul adressed the romans and not the whole church, he sinned.

Thanks. You just showed me not to listen to you on this subject.

 

[peterT]

Your joking right? Respect of persons? James was a child of Isreal. He was one of the heads of the church in Jerusalem. Where I am sure many from Isreal were saved under his watch, even during their times where they came to Jerusalem. I am sure he sent many of these people back to their homelands and felt a special bond with them.. It is not being a respector of persons for him to write a personal letter to those he loved. his kin folk.

When Paul wrote to the church in rome, was a disrespecting the church of Ephesus and other churches because he addressed Rome only? No.. so you should see how bad your reasoning is.

He addressed rome, but what he told them also has application to us, even though his letter was not addressed to us. Same Goes with James. He was disrespecting no one.

There is a defence when God in speaking to a city than speaking to a certain blood line within a certain race of people.

Talking to a particular city and the situation there, that’s God helping Christians there in that city, and it’s not showing respect of persons

Choosing to Talking to a particular blood line within a certain race of people is showing respect of persons, as we are all one in Christ and one body the church. And we are all James’s family his kin folk.

47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

When you see marriage in the context of God, just think 'emotional bond'.

Marriage is too caught up in sex and it complicates the whole thing too much.

See if this helps.
Marriage in the spiritual context is God "dwelling within" His bride (mankind) for the purpose of becoming one flesh by bringing forth new life.

Circumcision is to sacrifice a precious piece of flesh that results in delaying the husband's pleasure, so that the husband can dwell within the bride not only for the purpose of bringing forth life, but now also for the pleasure of the bride. The bride therefore returns to the husband more often and they become more fruitful.
We weren't the only ones to become "circumcised."

Instead of taking sex out of the equation, make it Set Apart and clean, then you can study the nitty gritty without feeling guilty.

Nathaniel's fantasy was pure in it's intent.

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.


"Son of man" is not a term that is reserved only for Yeshua.


Peace.

 

[BarlyGurl]

See if this helps.
Marriage in the spiritual context is God "dwelling within" His bride (mankind) for the purpose of becoming one flesh by bringing forth new life.

So Wolf... can you address these questions??? Abiding said he was going to after a nap... but I guess he was really really tired, as I see no response yet.

If Christians are Israel wouldn't Jesus Be incestuous with his Fathers wife??? The Nation Israel is portrayed as the WIFE of God the Father. God repeatedly states the Marriage is an EVERLASTING covenant. Christ Is the SON born of this MARRIAGE... be is betrothed to his BRIDE... which is the CHURCH. THIS is the NEW COVENENT. God is not a man that he should Lie... there are two covenants... Two Marriages... two distinct subjects... Christians and Israel???

 

[Bookends]

just a comment bro.

1. James was an apostle to the Jews, with Peter.
2. His ministry was in Jerusalem
3. Like the book of Hebrews, which was written specifically to Israel. but is very useful to us. James is writing to his people (12 tribes) or his natural brethren. Although what he said, as in the case of Hebrews, speaks directly to us also. But we were not his origional audience. He was writing a special letter to his brethren. there was no symbolic reference when he said to the 12 tribes scattered abroad. That was his general audience.

Where there not others in Jerusalem that were not Jews? The Lord made it clear to Peter that the gospel was not just for the Jews in his dream and encounter with Cornelius, plus Paul correcting him later on in regards of this matter. Therefore, we must conclude that Jerusalem and the surrounding region did not consist of Jews only, but a mixed ethnic group in which Peter was ignoring. Thus when James considers the 12 tribes in his book, He means all believers. Are you suggesting that the non-jewish ethnics are not included? If so you and James are making the same mistake Peter made.