IS LIVING TOGETHER A SIN?

[quickfire]

From the Holman Bible Dictionary:
As a whole, the New Testament uses porneia, most often translated fornication, in at least four ways:
1. Voluntary sexual intercourse of an unmarried person with someone of the opposite sex (1 Cor. 7:2; 1 Thess. 4:3).
2. A synonym for adultery (Matt. 5:32; 19:9). See Adultery;
1 Corinthians 7:1-3 1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

The terms 'wife' & 'husband' signify an actual marriage covenant, not a shack-up. This is why these problems are rampant in the church & society. Refusing marriage is refusing God's covenant for marriage. Those who shack-up do not honor the marriage covenant, therefore they are rebelling against God's plan for the family.

Not only this, but when a person shows more devotion toward their 'shackee' than to God they also commit Idolatry. When they confess "I can't live without him", that pretty well seals who they're devoted to. Let's also not forget about Concupiscence, which means Covetousness. Such rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft in God's eyes.

sorry your having to search the bible to look for a sin that is not there .
The only sin is when two become one and do not treat it as marriage .

ok i have looked at all the scriptures
YOU POSTED
1 Corinthians 7:2 But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.

once again in this scripture i struggle to see where two becoming one before marriage is a sin this verse speaks of men using women and women using men. this verse speaks of having more than one partner so once again i will remind you that when two become one and they do not treat it as a marriage then there is a sin. and this does not refer to Voluntary sexual intercourse of an unmarried person with someone of the opposite sex as you put it.

you posted
Thessalonians 4:3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

again what does this mention about two becoming one before marriage. ??? when two become one it is marriage


Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

again i fail to see where it says two becoming one before marriage is sin this verse speaks of married people. after the blessing.



Matt. 19:9
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery

once again i do not see where it mentions two becoming one before the wedding is a sin.

 

[quickfire]

Frankly I hold that the Bible teaches that premarital sex and adultery are mortal offenses that merit capital punishment.
That being said one not need be 'legally' married by the pagan empire in order to be married in the eyes of God. So ask yourself: am I married to him/her? If the answer is yes it really does not matter if you filled out a bunch of tax forms for Moloch. But if the answer is no - even if you filled out your License to Exist forms - you are living as an insult to God.

really stick to thread will you please this about two becoming one before the blessing and nothing else what on earth are talking about really.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

really stick to thread will you please this about two becoming one before the blessing and nothing else what on earth are talking about really.

Um, it's entirely relevant. A person may be married without having a certificate from the Department of Socialist Harassment. So, when judging a case, the question is whether they have committed themselves to a marriage covenant, not what papers they signed to get Moloch to recognize it.

 

[Stephen63]

The real issue are those who violate the marriage covenant. Here's some of the threads as evidence:

http://christianchat.com/christian-...abling-being-supportive.html?highlight=living
http://christianchat.com/christian-young-adults-forum/55648-crying-sleep.html?highlight=living

These and others like them all have the same things in common: couple lives together outside of the marriage covenant, has kids, and somewhere along the way the "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" as they themselves call them, cheats on them multiple times and leaves them. You can't have an epidemic of single parents with kids unless there is a whole lot of fornication and adultery going on! Such sins become epidemic when the church sugar coats the truth and no longer deals with it as sin
2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

By the way, I'm grateful for those who post on these subjects and tell the people the truth. No one can be restored to Christ until they first see the need to repent of their sins.

 

[quickfire]

origianly posted by progressivenerdgirl

Frankly I hold that the Bible teaches that premarital sex and adultery are mortal offenses that merit capital punishment.

so you hold a bible that teaches premarital sex merits capital punishment can you tell me which bible that is

 

[quickfire]

originaly posted by Stephen63;877176The real issue are those who violate the marriage covenant. Here's some of the threads as evidence:

These and others like them all have the same things in common: couple lives together outside of the marriage covenant, has kids, and somewhere along the way the "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" as they themselves call them, cheats on them multiple times and leaves them. You can't have an epidemic of single parents with kids unless there is a whole lot of fornication and adultery going on! Such sins become epidemic when the church sugar coats the truth and no longer deals with it as sin
2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

By the way, I'm grateful for those who post on these subjects and tell the people the truth. No one can be restored to Christ until they first see the need to repent of their sins.
[/quote]

what is this thread really about because all you seem to be doing is bringing up acts of fornification about a whole bunch of other things not related to premarital sex.

it’s easy for critics and skeptics to argue that the Bible has nothing to say about pre-marital sex. That’s because they’re usually looking for negative statements. They want a “condemnation” or a “thou shalt not.” But the Bible expresses its perspective primarily in positive terms genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
genesis 1.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

 

[Stephen63]

originaly posted by Stephen63;877176The real issue are those who violate the marriage covenant. Here's some of the threads as evidence:

These and others like them all have the same things in common: couple lives together outside of the marriage covenant, has kids, and somewhere along the way the "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" as they themselves call them, cheats on them multiple times and leaves them. You can't have an epidemic of single parents with kids unless there is a whole lot of fornication and adultery going on! Such sins become epidemic when the church sugar coats the truth and no longer deals with it as sin
2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

By the way, I'm grateful for those who post on these subjects and tell the people the truth. No one can be restored to Christ until they first see the need to repent of their sins.

what is this thread really about because all you seem to be doing is bringing up acts of fornification about a whole bunch of other things not related to premarital sex.

it’s easy for critics and skeptics to argue that the Bible has nothing to say about pre-marital sex. That’s because they’re usually looking for negative statements. They want a “condemnation” or a “thou shalt not.” But the Bible expresses its perspective primarily in positive terms genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
genesis 1.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.[/quote]

Ummmmmmmmmmm, premarital sex is fornication.

 

[quickfire]

STEPHEN63 I originally posted this

it’s easy for critics and skeptics to argue that premarital sex is sin the Bible has nothing to say about pre-marital sex being sin . That’s because they’re usually looking for negative statements. They want a “condemnation” or a “thou shalt not.” But the Bible expresses its perspective primarily in positive terms genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
genesis 1.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them

THIS IS WHAT I MENT TO SAY

it’s easy for critics and skeptics to argue that premarital sex is sin the Bible has nothing to say about pre-marital sex being sin . That’s because they’re usually looking for negative statements. They want a "condemnation" or a "thou shalt not." But the Bible expresses its perspective primarily in positive terms genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
genesis 1.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

i actually missed some wording out see if you can spot the difference.

your last statement stephen63 was premarital sex is fornication can you please show me where that is in the bible and are you enjoying your condemnation of good honest loving couples who are treating each other the way the lord would like them to treat each other

 

[Stephen63]

Is Pre-Marital Sex Always A Sin? - Article
uses Greek lexicons to show what fornication really is.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
This Scripture never implied she was already his wife because they slept together. It states she shall be his wife after the man pays her father.

Even Wikipedia says the same thing: Fornication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fornication typically refers to consensual sexual intercourse between two people not married to each other.[1] For many people, the term carries a moral or religious association, but the significance of sexual acts to which the term is applied varies between religions, societies and cultures. The definition is often disputed. In modern usage, the term is often replaced with the more judgment-neutral terms premarital sex, sex before marriage or extramarital sex.

 

[preschoolteacher24]

Are you suggesting that if two unmarried people flirt or kiss, they are married? If not, where do you draw the line?

Its sad how soooo many couples actaully assume they are married once living together then the kids come and so does life and they just simple never get married ... I have many friends like those whom told me many times don't do what i did don't move in marry first after years it just doesn't happen :/ well I say if the man understands the meaning of it and that you are not only living together no more you have a family why not get married make it official upon gods eyes ..

 

[quickfire]

I give up now your using the wikipedia .(welcome to the new bible everyone its called the wikipedia it seems im just feeling your fire you need to read the last scripture again you . Posted

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. This Scripture never implied she was already his wife because they slept together. It states she shall be his wife after the man pays her father.


It Does not actually say that premarital sex is a sin but what it Does say is to treat your lady like a wife afterwards .
Hmmm i wonder how well the other part would go down with the farther better buy a head guard i think ..

Sorry Sir i just took your daughters virginity and bye the way here is 50 shackles hmmmmm really

Anyway seeyer stevie this thread is getting to sick for me its up to god he examines individuals hearts and thoughts
Maybe your wanting to do good i dont really know but i am really strugling to see Why you have posted this thread

Your tital of the thread was is living togeather sin and now your pointing out that it is clearly a sin

 

[kenisyes]

Its sad how soooo many couples actaully assume they are married once living together then the kids come and so does life and they just simple never get married ... I have many friends like those whom told me many times don't do what i did don't move in marry first after years it just doesn't happen :/ well I say if the man understands the meaning of it and that you are not only living together no more you have a family why not get married make it official upon gods eyes ..

I was addressing a different problem in the post you quoted. There have been people posted who teach that flirting and/or kissing constitutes marriage. I do not agree.

I agree with you, why not get the legal paperwork in order? I do not believe that a couple should move in together without a permanent commitment equivalent to marriage. To do that is a sin of fornication. It messes up so many things socially and emotionally, too. I believe that the commitment, not the ceremony, is what govern the time of marriage in God's eyes. Most people need to get the paperwork in order.

Why don't the people you are referring to get married now? It only takes a few minutes. It's the big wedding they will have to do without.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

I agree with you, why not get the legal paperwork in order?

Quite simply because pagan governments deserve no cooperation. Paying Caesar his 30 pieces of silver (yes, I'm mixing Biblical metaphors) is a GIFT to the tyrant which is only justified if the Christian people are not in a position to resist and destroy him.
I am a progressive when it comes to local, Christian-instituted governments. When it comes to Moloch's Empire, i.e. the God-Hating Power-Worshipping War-Mongering thieves that make up the American Federal and State governments, I say it belongs in the fire with the devil and his angels.
Humanist governments (i.e., gangs of perverts and sadists with a flag) are far worse than anarchy.

 

[kenisyes]

Quite simply because pagan governments deserve no cooperation. Paying Caesar his 30 pieces of silver (yes, I'm mixing Biblical metaphors) is a GIFT to the tyrant which is only justified if the Christian people are not in a position to resist and destroy him.
I am a progressive when it comes to local, Christian-instituted governments. When it comes to Moloch's Empire, i.e. the God-Hating Power-Worshipping War-Mongering thieves that make up the American Federal and State governments, I say it belongs in the fire with the devil and his angels.
Humanist governments (i.e., gangs of perverts and sadists with a flag) are far worse than anarchy.

Doesn't the Bible say to submit for the sake of peace?

Don't get formally married if you don't want to for such a reason, but what will happen when you want their help with something?

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

Doesn't the Bible say to submit for the sake of peace?

Don't get formally married if you don't want to for such a reason, but what will happen when you want their help with something?

For the sake of peace. Peace is better served by Christian government. One avoids endangering the church when success is impossible, one does not give free reign to psychopaths and thugs. If one can resist one has a duty to do so, if not for ones own well being then to ensure people are punished for their offenses against God.

 

[kenisyes]

For the sake of peace. Peace is better served by Christian government. One avoids endangering the church when success is impossible, one does not give free reign to psychopaths and thugs. If one can resist one has a duty to do so, if not for ones own well being then to ensure people are punished for their offenses against God.

We are not likely to see a Christian government in this country anytime soon. In fact I doubt this country will ever be a "Christian country" anytime soon. I do not agree with resistance at this point, if you mean any assertive action. Avoidance is a better option, whenever possible. The Bible says we can do that, and be at peace. We don't live in this Kingdom, we live in the Kingdom of God; we just work here, as priests in a Kingdom of Priests. As far as punishment, "'vengeance is mine' says the Lord". You do your ministry, let God take care of history.

We know most of the names of the early Christian martyrs, but almost none of the names of the judges who sentenced them, thinking they could stop God. The only reason we know the names of the few rulers we do, is that Christian authors saved the names as bad examples. It will be the same in the future for our country.

I have known cases of people married in God's eyes, but not legally. When one spouse died, the other had no rights of input into the funeral, and no inheritance rights. That makes it extremely difficult, if the family is unsaved, and the spouses are saved, for example, or to continue to reside in the family home, even if there are children from the marriage.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

We are not likely to see a Christian government in this country anytime soon. In fact I doubt this country will ever be a "Christian country" anytime soon. I do not agree with resistance at this point, if you mean any assertive action. Avoidance is a better option, whenever possible. The Bible says we can do that, and be at peace. We don't live in this Kingdom, we live in the Kingdom of God; we just work here, as priests in a Kingdom of Priests. As far as punishment, "'vengeance is mine' says the Lord". You do your ministry, let God take care of history.

We know most of the names of the early Christian martyrs, but almost none of the names of the judges who sentenced them, thinking they could stop God. The only reason we know the names of the few rulers we do, is that Christian authors saved the names as bad examples. It will be the same in the future for our country.

I have known cases of people married in God's eyes, but not legally. When one spouse died, the other had no rights of input into the funeral, and no inheritance rights. That makes it extremely difficult, if the family is unsaved, and the spouses are saved, for example, or to continue to reside in the family home, even if there are children from the marriage.

Don't get me wrong! I am not telling you to start a civil war! But there are passive means of disobedience, and the Pagan Empire may be shorter lived than you expect.
And as for punishment - we don't have the right to refuse to execute God's commandments for legal punishment. We can forgive those who steal our TV, but those who warp children, murder, steal - these are crimes against God which we have no the authority to forgive, but which we (specifically, Christian families and judges) are commanded to punish according to the Law.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

Sorry, I meant 'commit adultery', not steal. We CAN forgive thieves.

 

[kenisyes]

Don't get me wrong! I am not telling you to start a civil war! But there are passive means of disobedience, and the Pagan Empire may be shorter lived than you expect.
And as for punishment - we don't have the right to refuse to execute God's commandments for legal punishment. We can forgive those who steal our TV, but those who warp children, murder, steal - these are crimes against God which we have no the authority to forgive, but which we (specifically, Christian families and judges) are commanded to punish according to the Law.

I hope you are right about short lived.

What would those commandments be, the ones in the OT? Those do not obligate us by the council in Acts 15. Even the Jews teach they are for the Jews and only for "in the land the Lord is giving you". Christian judges have a duty to protect society and to try to correct criminal behavior. Are you really going against Jesus' plain teaching that we are to forgive?

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

I hope you are right about short lived.

What would those commandments be, the ones in the OT? Those do not obligate us by the council in Acts 15. Even the Jews teach they are for the Jews and only for "in the land the Lord is giving you". Christian judges have a duty to protect society and to try to correct criminal behavior. Are you really going against Jesus' plain teaching that we are to forgive?

We don't have the right to forgive offences against God, anymore than I have the right to forgive someone who steals your television.
I am a theonomist and utterly disagree that Acts dispels the Law and the Prophets. Certain specific laws were annulled (dietary laws) or are simply irrelevant (boiling a calf in its mother's milk), but I hold that unless a law has been specifically annulled it remains in force. Most of Leviticus is just as valid today as the Commandments given to Moses on the mountain. However I do not know how fruitful it would be for me to defend it on here, given the limitations of the format and my own feeble abilities. I would recommend reading and listening to R.J. Rushdoony, Gary North, Greg Bahnsen, Mark Rushdoony and David Chilton on theonomy for a much more comprehensive treatmentthan I am capable of. Of course I do not know if you hold to any variety of Reformed Theology, so you may also want to read Jean Cauvin (John Calvin) and his associates.