The Absurdity of ‘Born a Sinner’

[PS]

thats a little harsh isn't it. Do you think tribesman is not saved? if you do not why?

No, it isn't harsh at all, I was throwing him a lifeline that he refused to take. In order to be saved we need to believe in Jesus' saving grace and repent of our sins. Calvinists seem to think they do not need to do this because they have been Predestined. Read the testimony of a very well know Calvinist Pastor Charles Spurgeon to find where Calvinists are going wrong. Below is a short extract from his testimony.

The Testimony of Charles H. Spurgeon

The false prophets in Matthew 7:21-22 said “Lord, Lord,” but they were not saved. They had amended their ways... speaking in Jesus' name, performing good works and miracles; but they were unsaved and went to Hell forever in their sins. They failed to do God's will concerning salvation. John 6:40 tells us God's will, “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Lordship Salvationists are not saved because they think repentance means to change your lifestyle to be saved, which is self-righteousness. If you're wrong on repentance, you're not saved (just like Judas)!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it isn't harsh at all, I was throwing him a lifeline that he refused to take. In order to be saved we need to believe in Jesus' saving grace and repent of our sins. Calvinists seem to think they do not need to do this because they have been Predestined. Read the testimony of a very well know Calvinist Pastor Charles Spurgeon to find where Calvinists are going wrong. Below is a short extract from his testimony.

The Testimony of Charles H. Spurgeon

The false prophets in Matthew 7:21-22 said “Lord, Lord,” but they were not saved. They had amended their ways... speaking in Jesus' name, performing good works and miracles; but they were unsaved and went to Hell forever in their sins. They failed to do God's will concerning salvation. John 6:40 tells us God's will, “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Lordship Salvationists are not saved because they think repentance means to change your lifestyle to be saved, which is self-righteousness. If you're wrong on repentance, you're not saved (just like Judas)!

Again, as I said before. You do not understand Calvinism. They do believe in repentance before salvation. They just think it occurs at a different time in the salvation process then i do.

And again i ask you. do you believe in law which saves us. I mean who is truly saved? A Calvinist who has repented. and is placing their faith in Christ that God will save them based on his promise. or an Armenian, who still has not repented but still trying to earn their way to heaven, and excusing the sins they continue to commit.

 

[PS]

It says no one can come unless God goes after you and draws you.

Now a question to you. Is God going to go after anyone who he KNOWS will reject him no matter what he does?

think about your answer. I do believe there is more than one answer dependent on the circumstance.

It is God's wish for everyone to be saved and Jesus died for the "whosoever" (everyone) and to that end the Holy Spirit is actively seeking, like the Good Shepherd, all those who are lost, and although he draws them to him there are many who have wandered far astray and for whatever reason refuse to return to the fold.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is God's wish for everyone to be saved and Jesus died for the "whosoever" (everyone) and to that end the Holy Spirit is actively seeking, like the Good Shepherd, all those who are lost, and although he draws them to him there are many who have wandered far astray and for whatever reason refuse to return to the fold.

so we can lose salvation after we have been born again of Gods spirit?

 

[PS]

I did not ask you this. I am asking if you think we must keep the law before we are saved.

No. The sinner has no interest in keeping the law. We come to Jesus just as we are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No. The sinner has no interest in keeping the law. We come to Jesus just as we are.

then why did you state we MUST do the will of God and be obedient to him before we can be saved? How can we do this, we are are unable to fulfill the law? Let alone have the ability to do what is right? in GODS WAY?

 

[PS]

so we can lose salvation after we have been born again of Gods spirit?

We can backslide like the Prodigal Son but he returned to the Father although not everyone does return, in addition we can apostatise which means to turn completely around and reject God and His salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We can backslide like the Prodigal Son but he returned to the Father although not everyone does return, in addition we can apostatise which means to turn completely around and reject God and His salvation.

1. Did not God say he would never leave us nor forsake us no matter what? So how could we ever leave god.

2. John makes it clear. anyone who would so called apostatise has never been saved, they left us, because they never were of us (truly saved) but to prove, that they never were of us.


a person who would deny God after supposedly chosing to trust god would be one who never repented, they had mere belief, not faith.

Is eternal life eternal or conditional?

 

[PS]

then why did you state we MUST do the will of God and be obedient to him before we can be saved? How can we do this, we are are unable to fulfill the law? Let alone have the ability to do what is right? in GODS WAY?

A thief who breaks into a house is breaking the law, but if he repents he can be forgiven and what I was saying is that it is the will of God that we come to Him as a penitent sinner.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A thief who breaks into a house is breaking the law, but if he repents he can be forgiven and what I was saying is that it is the will of God that we come to Him as a penitent sinner.

this is true. But a person not born of God can not stop sin, or even do anything which is not good. All we can do is come to the throne of grace, we can't obey.

and even after we are saved, we will never be perfect.

also. do we repent of every sin? How could we do this?

 

[PS]

1. Did not God say he would never leave us nor forsake us no matter what? So how could we ever leave god.

2. John makes it clear. anyone who would so called apostatise has never been saved, they left us, because they never were of us (truly saved) but to prove, that they never were of us.


a person who would deny God after supposedly chosing to trust god would be one who never repented, they had mere belief, not faith.

Is eternal life eternal or conditional?

The Lord will never leave or forsake those who follow Him, but their are those who for whatever reason turn around and follow another and this is their fate:

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

Matthew 12:31-32
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Mark 3:28
Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Lord will never leave or forsake those who follow Him,

No he never said this. your adding words to what he said.

but their are those who for whatever reason turn around and follow another and this is their fate:

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

Matthew 12:31-32
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Mark 3:28
Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

so eternal life is not eternal it is conditional.

I think you better stop trying to condemn Calvinists. and start condemning yourself. Your relying on your ability to continue to walk with God (another way to say follow the law) and Not Gods ability to keep you in him..

non of those passages you quoted show one can lost the seal of the spirit. Your context is off base.

 

[PS]

this is true. But a person not born of God can not stop sin, or even do anything which is not good. All we can do is come to the throne of grace, we can't obey.

and even after we are saved, we will never be perfect.

also. do we repent of every sin? How could we do this?

We cannot remember everything we have done so we have to trust the Lord and say with the Psalmist
"Purify me from my sins, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow." Psalm 51:7

 

[PS]

No he never said this. your adding words to what he said.



so eternal life is not eternal it is conditional.

I think you better stop trying to condemn Calvinists. and start condemning yourself. Your relying on your ability to continue to walk with God (another way to say follow the law) and Not Gods ability to keep you in him..

non of those passages you quoted show one can lost the seal of the spirit. Your context is off base.

Then in that case you are rejecting the plain word of God and I fear for your eternal soul.

 

[tribesman]

No he never said this. your adding words to what he said.



so eternal life is not eternal it is conditional.

I think you better stop trying to condemn Calvinists. and start condemning yourself. Your relying on your ability to continue to walk with God (another way to say follow the law) and Not Gods ability to keep you in him..

non of those passages you quoted show one can lost the seal of the spirit. Your context is off base.

Your speaking to deaf ears bro. Ty for exposing this subtle way of condoning the heresy of conditionalism - and the pride showing up when it is exposed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We cannot remember everything we have done so we have to trust the Lord and say with the Psalmist
"Purify me from my sins, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow." Psalm 51:7

so when do we do this? before we get saved. or do we have to continue to do it after?

 

[zone]

The Lord will never leave or forsake those who follow Him, but their are those who for whatever reason turn around and follow another and this is their fate:

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

Matthew 12:31-32
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Mark 3:28
Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

oh some ppl just enjoy taking all the promises and assurance out of the THE BLOODY CROSS AND EMPTY TOMB.
they have 2 pet proof texts.

Heb 6 and the unpardonable sin.

got anything else?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then in that case you are rejecting the plain word of God and I fear for your eternal soul.

don't fear for my soul.

1. I have believed and placed my faith in the son of God
2. I have truly repented
3. I have been given (not might be given) eternal life
4. I have been sealed with the HS of promise
5. I have the hope which does not fade away
6. I have not been given a spirit of fear. But I was adopted as Gods son, And I call him my Abba Father


Your the one who needs to fear. your still trying to rely on self. and have not yet given it all to God. If you believed in gods word, you would not fear anything. it is your eternal soul you need to worry about. Mine was paid for by the blood of Christ. and nothing, No nothing, not even I can separate me from the love of God.

 

[zone]

Then in that case you are rejecting the plain word of God and I fear for your eternal soul.

what is the plain word of God?
what has the power to salvation of the soul?
your threatenings?

why is it some folks have wretched sinners soley reliant on the Cross...then the redeemed sinner fighting for his eternal soul according to the Law?

oh right...because they think the Gospel IS the LAW.

Galatians 3
By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected bya the flesh? 4Did you sufferb so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justifyc the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”d 12But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirite through faith.


calm your show PS.


Romans 8
God’s Everlasting Love
31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can beh against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.i 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[PS]

so when do we do this? before we get saved. or do we have to continue to do it after?

I ask God's forgiveness everyday. If I have offended anyone it does not mean I am not saved but I do have this habit of opening my mouth and thinking later and the last thing I want to do is hurt someone's feelings. Mind you it may not be a sin? But I do try to be as much like Christ as I can be, although I do feel it would be a sin not to tell the truth, especially where the word of God is concerned, and if the truth hurts, well so be it.