John 6:37
- Thread starter crossnote
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There is an inadequate grasp of the English language occurring here.
There is some reckoning that is not being done here.
Pre-destined means the distiny has been decided, determined, set/fixed conclusively.
Predestination to salvation means salvation has been set, it is the fixed final outcome.
If all are predestined to salvation, then all are set/fixed in salvation as their final outcome.
That salvation is the final outcome of all is anti-Biblical (Jn 3:18, 36).
God draws, enables (Jn 6:44) only those whom he has decided, determined, set/fixed their final outcome in salvation, as we see in:
"Those whom he predestined, he also called (Ro 8:30)," predestination and calling go together,
he calls no one else, which is why
"All that the Father gives me (pre-destines, fixes/sets to salvation) will come to me." (Jn 6:37).
"Those he called, he also justified" (Ro 8:30). Calling and justification go together. Not all are justified,
and since the two go together, then not all are called.
Not all are called, for all those who are called are justified (Ro 8:30), and not all are justified, which means they were not called.
What has been fore-ordained from the foundation of the world is the destiny of salvation to those,
and only to those, whom the Father calls.
The meaning of "predestination" is being altered, rather than reckoned with.
There is some reckoning that is not being done here.
Pre-destined means the distiny has been decided, determined, set/fixed conclusively.
Predestination to salvation means salvation has been set, it is the fixed final outcome.
If all are predestined to salvation, then all are set/fixed in salvation as their final outcome.
That salvation is the final outcome of all is anti-Biblical (Jn 3:18, 36).
God draws, enables (Jn 6:44) only those whom he has decided, determined, set/fixed their final outcome in salvation, as we see in:
"Those whom he predestined, he also called (Ro 8:30)," predestination and calling go together,
he calls no one else, which is why
"All that the Father gives me (pre-destines, fixes/sets to salvation) will come to me." (Jn 6:37).
"Those he called, he also justified" (Ro 8:30). Calling and justification go together. Not all are justified,
and since the two go together, then not all are called.
Not all are called, for all those who are called are justified (Ro 8:30), and not all are justified, which means they were not called.
What has been fore-ordained from the foundation of the world is the destiny of salvation to those,
and only to those, whom the Father calls.
The meaning of "predestination" is being altered, rather than reckoned with.
Last edited:
Believers are Predestined for Glory.
Unbelievers and the wicked are predestined for Hell.
Those are the facts.
Suit yourself what you believe, I spent too many years on CARM to know I can change anyone's view, so I won't bother trying. As far as I can tell Calvin has done a wonderful work for Satan who has blinded thousands of people to the truth.
Unbelievers and the wicked are predestined for Hell.
Those are the facts.
Suit yourself what you believe, I spent too many years on CARM to know I can change anyone's view, so I won't bother trying. As far as I can tell Calvin has done a wonderful work for Satan who has blinded thousands of people to the truth.
I know that God's wrath comes upon those who have sins,a dn we are saved from it's eternal consequence if we live a life of purity, because then we have very little sin to be atoned for. And good work waiting for reward. But even if you believe in Christ, you still sin, as do I. and God cannot be in prescence of any sin. Yet in heaven we are to bow before him.
So, my question is how does a person become pure enough to stand in front of God?
If you get your sins forgiven and washed simply for believing that Jesus died, and never have to face any consequences, then how is that fair against someone who has never come to know Jesus? Anyone can believe if they have the book right there and have the right motivation. And in fact, most people believe that Jesus died and was risen. It's taught in schools.
And it can't be works that gives us eternal life, because no work saves a man from death. Only Jesus saves people from death.
So, Jesus must have died for every sin, otherwise, the bible might as well be cut down to 'believe Jesus died and you're saved'.
So, my question is how does a person become pure enough to stand in front of God?
If you get your sins forgiven and washed simply for believing that Jesus died, and never have to face any consequences, then how is that fair against someone who has never come to know Jesus? Anyone can believe if they have the book right there and have the right motivation. And in fact, most people believe that Jesus died and was risen. It's taught in schools.
And it can't be works that gives us eternal life, because no work saves a man from death. Only Jesus saves people from death.
So, Jesus must have died for every sin, otherwise, the bible might as well be cut down to 'believe Jesus died and you're saved'.
We stand before God a sinner, our righteousness is as filthy rags “It is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, but after this THE JUDGMENT.” (Hebrews 9:27) “How shall WE escape, if WE neglect so great salvation...” (Hebrews 2:3)
Notice it says IF we neglect our salvation and I am sure nobody on here is going to do that in which case we can rest on the promise of Jesus for:-
CHRIST is the end of the law for righteousness to EVERYONE that BELIEVETH....That is thou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved....For WHOSOEVER shall CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be SAVED.” (Romans 10:4, 9, 13)
Notice it says IF we neglect our salvation and I am sure nobody on here is going to do that in which case we can rest on the promise of Jesus for:-
CHRIST is the end of the law for righteousness to EVERYONE that BELIEVETH....That is thou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved....For WHOSOEVER shall CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be SAVED.” (Romans 10:4, 9, 13)
Last edited:
Yes, predestination is scriptural but the time-line is wrong otherwise there wouldn't be any point in Jesus commanding us to go and preach the gospel, and of course we can only accept Him as our saviour while we yet live. 
Last edited:
We are made righteous and pure on God's books by being given the righteousness and purity of Jesus Christ through believing, which results in obeying, him. (Ro 5:18-19)
"Fairness" is a human concept. It is not found in the Bible.
Justice is the Biblical concept.
God owes no one anything but to give them their due, which is justice.
Because of sin, we are all due his wrath for eternity.
God has the right to dispense his mercy as he chooses.
However, he does not have "the right" to dispense it contrary to his justice.
His mercy must be dispensed in accordance with his justice, which requires reparation, amends for sin against him.
He has provided the reparation in Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice which satisfied his justice.
We access that reparation for sin by grace, through faith in, which always results in oedience to, Jesus Christ.
So the life of faith in Jesus Christ is a life of obedience, not license.
"Fairness" is a human concept. It is not found in the Bible.
Justice is the Biblical concept.
God owes no one anything but to give them their due, which is justice.
Because of sin, we are all due his wrath for eternity.
God has the right to dispense his mercy as he chooses.
However, he does not have "the right" to dispense it contrary to his justice.
His mercy must be dispensed in accordance with his justice, which requires reparation, amends for sin against him.
He has provided the reparation in Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice which satisfied his justice.
We access that reparation for sin by grace, through faith in, which always results in oedience to, Jesus Christ.
So the life of faith in Jesus Christ is a life of obedience, not license.
Last edited: