Reformed Theology - Penal Substitution and the Imputed Righteousness of Christ
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A
yes but Chris its not just about being different parts of the same body.
it is teaching only HALF the message and those turning the gospel into a Lie and condemning people when they should know the peace and Joy in God or comforting people who are still in the world when they should be convicted of their sins, because there is a difference between condemnation and conviction.
it is teaching only HALF the message and those turning the gospel into a Lie and condemning people when they should know the peace and Joy in God or comforting people who are still in the world when they should be convicted of their sins, because there is a difference between condemnation and conviction.
Reported again? I must get under your skin.
Ephesians 2:3 does not say BORN.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Nature in the Greek is this...
Nature - G5449 -phusis
From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: - ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).
Paul also wrote this...
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Nature can go either way. A human being is not born wicked, that is a false teaching. Human beings are born in an ignorant state subject to the passions of the flesh but God imbues all people with the light of conscience.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
People SELL themselves into the bondage of sin when they CHOOSE to suppress the light and yield to unrighteousness.
Isa_52:3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Thus the NATURE of Ephesians 2:3 is a nature which has developed over the continued action of practicing sin. Sinful action hard wires itself into the brain because sin brings pleasure and the neuro-transmitters fire off.
God designed us to become addicted to him as opposed to becoming addicted to sin. God wants us to be slaves of righteousness and not slaves of sin. We get to CHOOSE this day whom we will serve.
When we yield to God from the heart God empowers us and quickens our MORTAL BODY as we become ADDICTED to God.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)
Ordain/Addicted -G5021 -tassō
A prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, that is, assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot): - addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.
Your fallacy is that you don't see NATURE as going both ways. In your mind human nature is ONLY EVIL. Yet Paul uses the SAME WORD to describe DOING THE RIGHT THING.
A Christian is to partake in the DIVINE NATURE having ESCAPED the corruption of lust. When one is in bondage to lust it renews the nature to evil.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Dig into these things.
Ephesians 2:3 does not say BORN.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Nature in the Greek is this...
Nature - G5449 -phusis
From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: - ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).
Paul also wrote this...
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Nature can go either way. A human being is not born wicked, that is a false teaching. Human beings are born in an ignorant state subject to the passions of the flesh but God imbues all people with the light of conscience.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
People SELL themselves into the bondage of sin when they CHOOSE to suppress the light and yield to unrighteousness.
Isa_52:3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Thus the NATURE of Ephesians 2:3 is a nature which has developed over the continued action of practicing sin. Sinful action hard wires itself into the brain because sin brings pleasure and the neuro-transmitters fire off.
God designed us to become addicted to him as opposed to becoming addicted to sin. God wants us to be slaves of righteousness and not slaves of sin. We get to CHOOSE this day whom we will serve.
When we yield to God from the heart God empowers us and quickens our MORTAL BODY as we become ADDICTED to God.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)
Ordain/Addicted -G5021 -tassō
A prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, that is, assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot): - addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.
Your fallacy is that you don't see NATURE as going both ways. In your mind human nature is ONLY EVIL. Yet Paul uses the SAME WORD to describe DOING THE RIGHT THING.
A Christian is to partake in the DIVINE NATURE having ESCAPED the corruption of lust. When one is in bondage to lust it renews the nature to evil.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Dig into these things.
A
yes that is kind of why I started responding to their false gospel because I heard from some as well and it breaks my heart to see them so troubled and feeling condemned because they try and try to be perfect but fall short of God's perfection. they feel like the law is beating them up without understanding the gospel and having the joy and peace God's Holy Spirit gives them and how its not their works that they should look towards for God's acceptance but CHrist's finished work at the cross.
it is not
faith ... works ... salvation
but
Faith... salvation...good works.
because we first must be cleansed and established in CHrist before we can do works acceptable to God. we must first know God's love and His salvation and understand His righteousness so that we might establish our own proper righteousness through the walking in the good works God has equipped us to do.
if we try to work before we understand God's love and His salvation, we will find nothing but filthy rags, stress, pride, or other negative things God never intended for us to do or have.
it is not
faith ... works ... salvation
but
Faith... salvation...good works.
because we first must be cleansed and established in CHrist before we can do works acceptable to God. we must first know God's love and His salvation and understand His righteousness so that we might establish our own proper righteousness through the walking in the good works God has equipped us to do.
if we try to work before we understand God's love and His salvation, we will find nothing but filthy rags, stress, pride, or other negative things God never intended for us to do or have.
A
The only people who need Skinski's message are those who will not listen because they are not broken. they are not repentant or contrite and his message will fall on deaf ears because he does not preach it with the love and the Power of the Holy Spirit.
no what he is doing is not preaching to the choir but beating the little children who are already broken. who feel unworthy of even looking to God, who try but feel like any work they do is not enough and they find Skinski who preaches that they must not only have faith but have faith in their works in order to gain salvation.
then all they get is despair because they have not heard the true gospel message but a close counterfeit.
for they should not have faith in their works but in Jesus christ finish works and when they have that and the HOLY SPIRIT then they will be cleansed and equipped to do good works.
repentance is more than just words but a heart broken and beating upon one who is already broken is not doing God's work.
no what he is doing is not preaching to the choir but beating the little children who are already broken. who feel unworthy of even looking to God, who try but feel like any work they do is not enough and they find Skinski who preaches that they must not only have faith but have faith in their works in order to gain salvation.
then all they get is despair because they have not heard the true gospel message but a close counterfeit.
for they should not have faith in their works but in Jesus christ finish works and when they have that and the HOLY SPIRIT then they will be cleansed and equipped to do good works.
repentance is more than just words but a heart broken and beating upon one who is already broken is not doing God's work.
what gaga.
HERE'S THE REAL RESULT AND SOURCE OF DESARIO AND SKINSKI'S JUDAIC/ANTI-CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS:
"Criticism of the Doctrines of Original Sin and Atonement:
The doctrine of Original Sin (or Total Depravity or Total Inability) is central to Christianity. On top of this doctrine a whole bunch of other doctrines were developed. Without Original Sin, humans are free from eternal sin and there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified in order to save them, and the doctrine of Atonement becomes unnecessary. Thus, without Original Sin, the whole system of Christian beliefs would fall apart.
The net is full with websites and articles that expose the absurdity of Original Sin and Atonement. Titles 1-7 in this selection discuss Original Sin, and titles 8-14 discuss Atonement.
1- The Great Myth, Original Sin. (from the MYSTICA.ORG)
2- Myth of Original Sin; by: Mike Desario (Standing the Gap)
3- Are Men Born Sinners; by: A. T. Overstreet.
4- Changing Conception of Original Sin; by: Shelton Smith, 1955.
5- Sources of Doctrine of the Fall and Original Sin; by: F. R. Tennant, 1903.
6- Total Depravity or Total Inability; by: Terry Benton.
7- Refutation of Total Hereditary Depravity; by: Elder Aylett Raines, 1859.
8- Theories of the Atonement; by: Leon Morris.
9- Jesus, his Death and Atonement Theory; by: Scot McKnight, 2005.
10- Historic Theories of Atonement; by: Robert Mackintosh, 1921.
11- A Short History of the Doctrine of Atonement; by: L.W. Grensted, 1920.
12- The Idea of Atonement; by: Hastings Rashdall, 1919.
13- A Critical History of Justification and Reconciliation; by: Albrecht Ritschl, 1872.
14- The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors; by: Kersey Graves, 1876. This book is very interesting for it shows that the idea of blood atonement has its roots in ancient mythology. Legends, fables and some writings (before Christianity) tells us that there were at least 16 cases of claimed "Sons of God" who were crucified to save their people."
follow up on ANY of those sinful, deceitful workers and false teachers...see where the trail leads.
AWAY FROM JESUS.
they're all outside the church attacking it.
and find out where it starts.
one guess.
HERE'S THE REAL RESULT AND SOURCE OF DESARIO AND SKINSKI'S JUDAIC/ANTI-CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS:
"Criticism of the Doctrines of Original Sin and Atonement:
The doctrine of Original Sin (or Total Depravity or Total Inability) is central to Christianity. On top of this doctrine a whole bunch of other doctrines were developed. Without Original Sin, humans are free from eternal sin and there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified in order to save them, and the doctrine of Atonement becomes unnecessary. Thus, without Original Sin, the whole system of Christian beliefs would fall apart.
The net is full with websites and articles that expose the absurdity of Original Sin and Atonement. Titles 1-7 in this selection discuss Original Sin, and titles 8-14 discuss Atonement.
1- The Great Myth, Original Sin. (from the MYSTICA.ORG)
2- Myth of Original Sin; by: Mike Desario (Standing the Gap)
3- Are Men Born Sinners; by: A. T. Overstreet.
4- Changing Conception of Original Sin; by: Shelton Smith, 1955.
5- Sources of Doctrine of the Fall and Original Sin; by: F. R. Tennant, 1903.
6- Total Depravity or Total Inability; by: Terry Benton.
7- Refutation of Total Hereditary Depravity; by: Elder Aylett Raines, 1859.
8- Theories of the Atonement; by: Leon Morris.
9- Jesus, his Death and Atonement Theory; by: Scot McKnight, 2005.
10- Historic Theories of Atonement; by: Robert Mackintosh, 1921.
11- A Short History of the Doctrine of Atonement; by: L.W. Grensted, 1920.
12- The Idea of Atonement; by: Hastings Rashdall, 1919.
13- A Critical History of Justification and Reconciliation; by: Albrecht Ritschl, 1872.
14- The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors; by: Kersey Graves, 1876. This book is very interesting for it shows that the idea of blood atonement has its roots in ancient mythology. Legends, fables and some writings (before Christianity) tells us that there were at least 16 cases of claimed "Sons of God" who were crucified to save their people."
follow up on ANY of those sinful, deceitful workers and false teachers...see where the trail leads.
AWAY FROM JESUS.
they're all outside the church attacking it.
and find out where it starts.
one guess.
1John 1:8 is not teaching that Christian's will always be sinners. You can isolate it out of context and choose to present it that way but that is not rightly dividing the Scripture.
1Joh 1:8 is a REPENTANCE verse and is in the context of HOW to walk in the light.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. The cleansing is conditional on WALKING in the light.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. One cannot approach God for this cleansing unless they first confess their sins. The Prodigal Son approached his father confessing his sins.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness if we do this. How can someone believe that Joh 1:8 is teaching that you will ALWAYS BE UNRIGHTEOUS when in verse 9 John writes that Jesus will cleanse you of ALL unrighteousness? What an absurdity.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. John reiterates his point here. We cannot claim to have never sinned.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: IF IF IF and not WHEN. IF we sin and John is speaking of non-presumptuous sin here because he clearly teaches in chapter 3 that those who sin are of the devil. When we fall short and miss the mark we have an advocate with God. There is no advocate for walking in willful disobedience (Heb 10:26-29).
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Christian's keep the commandments. They are DOERS of the Word.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. We KEEP the word.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. If you don't love then you are in darkness. Love fulfills the law. If you love you won't hate your brother and therefore you won't willfully sin against Him.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
The false teachers will quote 1Joh 1:8 in isolation again and again. It is their favourite verse of the First Epistle of John which they use to argue in favour of sin. Always defending sin. Why?????????
Always trying to tell people no-one can be pure. No-one can be righteous. No-one can obey God. These people appear to hate the Bible while they pretend to love it. The Bible to them is a menu which a few select dishes which they love to apply out of context.
What else does John teach?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Yet people think 1Joh 1:8 is teaching that nobody can stop sinning?
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. The children of God a manifest to the world that they do not produce the fruit of sin in their lives.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. LOVE LOVE LOVE not SIN SIN SIN. Jesus said if you sin you are it's slave (Joh 8:34) and that He sets us free from this slavery (Joh 8:36) and Paul agreed (Rom 6:7, 18) Yet modern theology DENIES IT.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Is John contradicting himself here?
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NO HE IS NOT!
1Jn 1:8 is CLEARLY in the context of HOW to walk in the light.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Jesus saves people FROM their sin. He does not save people IN ther sin. There is no salvation IN sin.
Saints are not sinners.
1Joh 1:8 is a REPENTANCE verse and is in the context of HOW to walk in the light.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. The cleansing is conditional on WALKING in the light.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. One cannot approach God for this cleansing unless they first confess their sins. The Prodigal Son approached his father confessing his sins.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness if we do this. How can someone believe that Joh 1:8 is teaching that you will ALWAYS BE UNRIGHTEOUS when in verse 9 John writes that Jesus will cleanse you of ALL unrighteousness? What an absurdity.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. John reiterates his point here. We cannot claim to have never sinned.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: IF IF IF and not WHEN. IF we sin and John is speaking of non-presumptuous sin here because he clearly teaches in chapter 3 that those who sin are of the devil. When we fall short and miss the mark we have an advocate with God. There is no advocate for walking in willful disobedience (Heb 10:26-29).
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Christian's keep the commandments. They are DOERS of the Word.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. We KEEP the word.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. If you don't love then you are in darkness. Love fulfills the law. If you love you won't hate your brother and therefore you won't willfully sin against Him.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
The false teachers will quote 1Joh 1:8 in isolation again and again. It is their favourite verse of the First Epistle of John which they use to argue in favour of sin. Always defending sin. Why?????????
Always trying to tell people no-one can be pure. No-one can be righteous. No-one can obey God. These people appear to hate the Bible while they pretend to love it. The Bible to them is a menu which a few select dishes which they love to apply out of context.
What else does John teach?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Yet people think 1Joh 1:8 is teaching that nobody can stop sinning?
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. The children of God a manifest to the world that they do not produce the fruit of sin in their lives.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. LOVE LOVE LOVE not SIN SIN SIN. Jesus said if you sin you are it's slave (Joh 8:34) and that He sets us free from this slavery (Joh 8:36) and Paul agreed (Rom 6:7, 18) Yet modern theology DENIES IT.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Is John contradicting himself here?
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NO HE IS NOT!
1Jn 1:8 is CLEARLY in the context of HOW to walk in the light.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Jesus saves people FROM their sin. He does not save people IN ther sin. There is no salvation IN sin.
Saints are not sinners.
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""Criticism of the Doctrines of Original Sin and Atonement:
The doctrine of Original Sin (or Total Depravity or Total Inability) is central to Christianity. On top of this doctrine a whole bunch of other doctrines were developed. Without Original Sin, humans are free from eternal sin and there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified in order to save them, and the doctrine of Atonement becomes unnecessary. Thus, without Original Sin, the whole system of Christian beliefs would fall apart."
WHO WANTS THIS TO HAPPEN? ^
blood-bought Christians?
or somebody else?
this heresy was supposedly dealt with long ago.
but....here we are today entertaining the same devils.
The doctrine of Original Sin (or Total Depravity or Total Inability) is central to Christianity. On top of this doctrine a whole bunch of other doctrines were developed. Without Original Sin, humans are free from eternal sin and there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified in order to save them, and the doctrine of Atonement becomes unnecessary. Thus, without Original Sin, the whole system of Christian beliefs would fall apart."
WHO WANTS THIS TO HAPPEN? ^
blood-bought Christians?
or somebody else?
this heresy was supposedly dealt with long ago.
but....here we are today entertaining the same devils.
My comments in Red
what gaga.
HERE'S THE REAL RESULT AND SOURCE OF DESARIO AND SKINSKI'S JUDAIC/ANTI-CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS:
"Criticism of the Doctrines of Original Sin and Atonement:
The doctrine of Original Sin (or Total Depravity or Total Inability) is central to Christianity. On top of this doctrine a whole bunch of other doctrines were developed. Without Original Sin, humans are free from eternal sin and there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified in order to save them, and the doctrine of Atonement becomes unnecessary. Thus, without Original Sin, the whole system of Christian beliefs would fall apart. Hogwash. Original Sin was accepted in Christian Orthodoxy in the 4th century due to the prolific writings and influence of Augustine the Bishop of Hippo.
Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin thus the statement that implies that "if original sin is not true then Jesus did not need to die" is FALSE. Jesus shed His blood as a sinless offering offered to God that our past sins be forgiven. His blood purchases us from the dominion of Satan, ie. the corrupting influence of sin which we sold ourselves into.
Original Sin was not taught in the early church. Anyone can do the research for themselves. Some of the early fathers hinted at a vice of origin but none of them taught that men were born with a sin nature which was past down for Adam and implied inherited guilt or an inherited corruption of human nature.
Here is a documentary I put together on the issue.
[video=youtube;KVQ1t5i058Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVQ1t5i058Q[/video]
The main problem with Original Sin is that it redefines sin to being a nature instead of a choice. It is impossible to forsake a nature and thus the Gospel is redefined to present salvation in the context of being saved IN sin.
What Satan has done is redefine the nature of man in order to redefine the entire Gospel message. It is probably the greatest deception every to be pulled off on humanity.
Thus false teachers can APPEAR to be preaching the truth because they use the Bible and uphold the death and resurrection of Jesus yet what they do is eliminate genuine repentance and faith and thus reconciliation cannot take place because an individual does not come clear of the rebellion before God. Hence the prodigal son is SAVED IN THE PIG PEN in modern theology as opposed to being SAVED OUT OF IT. One cannot be reconciled to God IN the pig pen.
Dig deep and study to show thyself approved.
The net is full with websites and articles that expose the absurdity of Original Sin and Atonement. Titles 1-7 in this selection discuss Original Sin, and titles 8-14 discuss Atonement.
1- The Great Myth, Original Sin. (from the MYSTICA.ORG)
2- Myth of Original Sin; by: Mike Desario (Standing the Gap)
3- Are Men Born Sinners; by: A. T. Overstreet.
4- Changing Conception of Original Sin; by: Shelton Smith, 1955.
5- Sources of Doctrine of the Fall and Original Sin; by: F. R. Tennant, 1903.
6- Total Depravity or Total Inability; by: Terry Benton.
7- Refutation of Total Hereditary Depravity; by: Elder Aylett Raines, 1859.
8- Theories of the Atonement; by: Leon Morris.
9- Jesus, his Death and Atonement Theory; by: Scot McKnight, 2005.
10- Historic Theories of Atonement; by: Robert Mackintosh, 1921.
11- A Short History of the Doctrine of Atonement; by: L.W. Grensted, 1920.
12- The Idea of Atonement; by: Hastings Rashdall, 1919.
13- A Critical History of Justification and Reconciliation; by: Albrecht Ritschl, 1872.
14- The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors; by: Kersey Graves, 1876. This book is very interesting for it shows that the idea of blood atonement has its roots in ancient mythology. Legends, fables and some writings (before Christianity) tells us that there were at least 16 cases of claimed "Sons of God" who were crucified to save their people."
follow up on ANY of those sinful, deceitful workers and false teachers...see where the trail leads.
AWAY FROM JESUS.
they're all outside the church attacking it.
and find out where it starts.
one guess.
what gaga.
HERE'S THE REAL RESULT AND SOURCE OF DESARIO AND SKINSKI'S JUDAIC/ANTI-CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS:
"Criticism of the Doctrines of Original Sin and Atonement:
The doctrine of Original Sin (or Total Depravity or Total Inability) is central to Christianity. On top of this doctrine a whole bunch of other doctrines were developed. Without Original Sin, humans are free from eternal sin and there would be no need for Jesus to be crucified in order to save them, and the doctrine of Atonement becomes unnecessary. Thus, without Original Sin, the whole system of Christian beliefs would fall apart. Hogwash. Original Sin was accepted in Christian Orthodoxy in the 4th century due to the prolific writings and influence of Augustine the Bishop of Hippo.
Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin thus the statement that implies that "if original sin is not true then Jesus did not need to die" is FALSE. Jesus shed His blood as a sinless offering offered to God that our past sins be forgiven. His blood purchases us from the dominion of Satan, ie. the corrupting influence of sin which we sold ourselves into.
Original Sin was not taught in the early church. Anyone can do the research for themselves. Some of the early fathers hinted at a vice of origin but none of them taught that men were born with a sin nature which was past down for Adam and implied inherited guilt or an inherited corruption of human nature.
Here is a documentary I put together on the issue.
[video=youtube;KVQ1t5i058Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVQ1t5i058Q[/video]
The main problem with Original Sin is that it redefines sin to being a nature instead of a choice. It is impossible to forsake a nature and thus the Gospel is redefined to present salvation in the context of being saved IN sin.
What Satan has done is redefine the nature of man in order to redefine the entire Gospel message. It is probably the greatest deception every to be pulled off on humanity.
Thus false teachers can APPEAR to be preaching the truth because they use the Bible and uphold the death and resurrection of Jesus yet what they do is eliminate genuine repentance and faith and thus reconciliation cannot take place because an individual does not come clear of the rebellion before God. Hence the prodigal son is SAVED IN THE PIG PEN in modern theology as opposed to being SAVED OUT OF IT. One cannot be reconciled to God IN the pig pen.
Dig deep and study to show thyself approved.
The net is full with websites and articles that expose the absurdity of Original Sin and Atonement. Titles 1-7 in this selection discuss Original Sin, and titles 8-14 discuss Atonement.
1- The Great Myth, Original Sin. (from the MYSTICA.ORG)
2- Myth of Original Sin; by: Mike Desario (Standing the Gap)
3- Are Men Born Sinners; by: A. T. Overstreet.
4- Changing Conception of Original Sin; by: Shelton Smith, 1955.
5- Sources of Doctrine of the Fall and Original Sin; by: F. R. Tennant, 1903.
6- Total Depravity or Total Inability; by: Terry Benton.
7- Refutation of Total Hereditary Depravity; by: Elder Aylett Raines, 1859.
8- Theories of the Atonement; by: Leon Morris.
9- Jesus, his Death and Atonement Theory; by: Scot McKnight, 2005.
10- Historic Theories of Atonement; by: Robert Mackintosh, 1921.
11- A Short History of the Doctrine of Atonement; by: L.W. Grensted, 1920.
12- The Idea of Atonement; by: Hastings Rashdall, 1919.
13- A Critical History of Justification and Reconciliation; by: Albrecht Ritschl, 1872.
14- The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors; by: Kersey Graves, 1876. This book is very interesting for it shows that the idea of blood atonement has its roots in ancient mythology. Legends, fables and some writings (before Christianity) tells us that there were at least 16 cases of claimed "Sons of God" who were crucified to save their people."
follow up on ANY of those sinful, deceitful workers and false teachers...see where the trail leads.
AWAY FROM JESUS.
they're all outside the church attacking it.
and find out where it starts.
one guess.
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C
This is what I see:
Skinski: repent (turn from the darkness).
Zone: grace (we are free in Christ).
I see two different people preaching what they have been delivered from.
I went to college and had my belief almost destroyed. So, I was shown that error. I now preach God is real to those I once was of. It seems we all preach to those we once were of.
Skinski: repent (turn from the darkness).
Zone: grace (we are free in Christ).
I see two different people preaching what they have been delivered from.
I went to college and had my belief almost destroyed. So, I was shown that error. I now preach God is real to those I once was of. It seems we all preach to those we once were of.
A
its not that easy tribesman. he tends to hide his lies behind Bible verses and
occasionally he just tells half truths that many believers do not recognize because they know the other half
but his teachings make new believers stumble or makes them less likely to seek out fellowship in church because they believe the lies about the preachers and his false accusations concerning doctrines he does not even begin to understand because you need the Spirit to comprehend those mysteries.
1 Corinthians 1
[h=3][/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. [SUP]22[/SUP]For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[SUP][b][/SUP] foolishness, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
occasionally he just tells half truths that many believers do not recognize because they know the other half
but his teachings make new believers stumble or makes them less likely to seek out fellowship in church because they believe the lies about the preachers and his false accusations concerning doctrines he does not even begin to understand because you need the Spirit to comprehend those mysteries.
1 Corinthians 1
[h=3][/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. [SUP]22[/SUP]For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[SUP][b][/SUP] foolishness, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.