Revelation's 42 Months and 1260 Days

[Therapon]

I'm getting kinda of old and tired so sometimes I don't see my errors, this is a correction to the above:

Jerusalem was freed up Gentile control in 1967-1278.34 = 688.66, the exact year the Islamic Kalifah Abd el Malik ibn Marwan began construction of the Dome of the Rock, "the abomination that maketh desolate," on the Temple Mount of God most holy.

 

[loveme1]

Therapon, what do you make of Israel's supreme court building?

 

[Therapon]

Therapon, what do you make of Israel's supreme court building?

In all candor, m'Lady, I rarely comment on events happening in the secular world unless they impact our understanding of Scripture in some way. I do read Israel National News almost every day, Arutz7, and do comment on their news items when appropriate.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I knew you were aware of them and must have been tired. That's old age creeping up on you.

Of course I'm aware of those various views, number 4 is correct, scripturally, archaeologically, and prophetically.

 

[Therapon]

I knew you were aware of them and must have been tired. That's old age creeping up on you.

My friend, old age is doing a whole lot more than just creeping up on me; I'm 85 so I'm already there. <smile>

 

[doulos]

Jews don’t believe God has a Son who died for their sins.
Stick to the subject.

.Is this a case of you saying do as I say, not as I do. Isn’t that rather hypocritical? Your statement reminds me of the parent who curses like a sailor and then washes their child’s mouth out with soap for cursing.

Wasn’t the subject of this thread 42 months and 1250 days? Aren’t you the one that changed the subject by attacking Therapon’s views on the Jews who have been given the spirit of slumber? Wasn’t my reply to you based on what you said?

be careful about you claiming

I’m lying.

OK let’s look at a few of your statements and then you can show us where Therapon said what you say he said. When you can’t will you admit you lied or just try to find a way to weasel out of admitting the truth?

Ftom post31 Connecting dots thread;

and, there we have your real beliefs ellis.

jews don't need Jesus.

Therapon says “Jesus is a Lamb who was, in the eyes of God the Father, "slain before the foundation of the earth," Rev 13:8 so every person who has ever been, or ever will be born, throughout all time, needs the shed blood of Jesus.” Show us where he supposedly said Jews don’t need Jesus. Doesn’t Therapon’s statement make it perfectly clear that ALL need Jesus?
How about another example;

the truth of his view?

That unbelieving jews are saved through some cry to some other messiah?
What a wretched and miserable and disgraceful fprm of anti-Semitism.

Who’s view is that? It isn’t Therapons’. If you are trying to say that is what he is saying show us where he said it. Oh that’s right you can’t because Therapon actually says “Again you misrepresent. Jews are not "rejecting" Jesus, they just call Him their Messiah. Furthermore, they cannot reject what they cannot see, Romens 11:8.”

I understand you disagree, but if its wrong prove it. Why resort to misrepresenting the view? That doesn’t help you prove him wrong.

I haven’t posted what I know on this matter yet.

Really? So post it. If you had any real proof Therapon was in error you would post it. Instead as we can all see, you prefer to misrepresent (I.E. LIE) about what Therapon says. It seems to me that there would be no need to behave in such an unchristian manner if one could use Scripture to demonstrate Therapon’s error.

I don’t know why I need to.

Anyone who really wants to know can find out.
But I will when enough has been posted on it.

LOL and how much will have to be posted before you do this? If you could prove it wrong you would, but you can’t so instead you resort to the disruptive tactics you continually display. You know like misresenting (I.E. Lying) about what he says derailing and sidetracking every thread he starts.

let’s just get everything you and he teach out on the table first. permanently.

Therapon’s view is posted at numerous locations on the internet, I can provide a few web addresses if you like. As for as getting his views posted here (out on the table) it is hard to do when you continually stalk him, misrepresent (lie) his view, disrupt and derail his threads in a poor attempt to badger him into silence! So if you really want everything out on the table, why keep disrupting him with these disruptive tactics, that are designed to stifle a productive discussion?

1948…..65 years give or take. But he can move his dates around all he likes.

Make it 1967.
Of course that’s what you do- take Western armaments and Israeli subversion in 67 shown on tv to mean jesus is wiping out Arabs and this is One of the Two Witnesses, or His Two Witnesses working together TO DO WHAR….huh

To do what exactly…. Oh ya,kill people over Land. That is most certainly the Message

I have no idea where that came from. I don’t recall anyone saying that the events of 67 are meant to be about Jesus is wiping out arabs the two witnesses working together etc… as you suggest. Is that what you are espousing? That certainly isn’t what Therapon espouses. I do recall Therapon saying that Israel becoming a nation in 1948 is the fulfillment of the 1260 day prophecy. I do recall it being said that 1967 ended the 42 months between the AOD and the time when the gentiles lose control of Jerusalem. But that is far cry from you what you said.

in any case you got yourself a date – choose the longest living person ever – 115 years old – pick a nymber.

You got yourself a date.

Interesting I guess we have different definitions of what a date is. I always thought a date for a specific event occurred on a specific day. Saying something will occur before the generation that was alive in 67 dies is not setting a date but it is, knowing the season.
Mat 24:30 - 34 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
We are supposed to know when it is near, even at the doors, but that doesn’t mean we know the date just that we are close. Saying that generation is here and that some of those alive in 48 and 67 that saw Israel become a nation and the gentiles lose control of Jerusalem in 67 when those events were fulfilled will see Christ return is not setting a date. Twist it any way you want anyone can see this is nothing more than a ploy you are using to try and misrepresent (lie) that the view sets a date when it does not.

every cult leader in the world uses this trick.

we’re “in the season”

Many have said that and been wrong, just because some one else said that and they were wrong does not mean that everyone that will ever say that after them will be wrong also. .

As, for his never setting a date, we’ll see about that.

The internet is forever, didn’t you know?
Disciples of Therapon’s have posted his conversations.

Really? If you have actual proof that is documentable, not just hearsay then by all means demonstrate it! Of course we all know if you really had anything you would post it . Therapon saying we are in the season and the Lord could return at any moment or still be in our future sometime before the generation that saw the events of 48 and 67 happen dies is not setting a date. Intead it is knowing the season!

And on a lighter note I wouldn’t count on the internet being forever, not that it matters.

there you go setting dates again, because ellis said so?

Because ellis reverse – engineered some hokey math to make Daniel’s 70[SUP]th[/SUP] week a magic one?
To make the D.O.R. theA.O.D?

Purleeze.

I haven’t set a date for the Lord’s return so why are you accusing me of setting the dates. As for as the dates of 1948 becoming the year Israel became a nation or the gentile losing control of Jerusalem in 67 those aren’t dates that Therapon or I set. It is a historical fact that Israel became a nation in 48. It is also a historical fact that the gentiles lost control of Jerusalem in 67. Neither Therapon or I set those dates history did.

No date was set for the Lord’s return but there you go making a false accusation.

i don’t want him to be silent. i want him to get it all right out in front here.

all of it. Help him if you want to.

Then why do you continuously badger him and derail his threads when he attempts to explain his view? Oh I know you want to badger him into silence. If one really wanted him to get it all out in front here then you would step back and let him get it out there. Then if it was in error you could demonstrate that error without having to misrepresent what was said. Your actions betray you and show that you don’t really want him to put it out there or you would let him.

 

[zone]

........................

newsflash.
im out.
youre in...go for it.
teach it....im still reading.
and laughing.

 

[Therapon]

Wow doulos! I'm actually sorry that's true. I didn't say anything, I just figured she was mentally unbalanced.

 

[doulos]

I find it strange that Israel the nation let the islamic shrine remain standing in Jerusalem...

Rev 11:1-2 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The above verses tell us that the court was left out and given to the gentiles and that the gentiles would remain in control of Jerusalem for 42 months.. So even though the gentiles get to control Jerusalem for another 42 months they get the court left out for the gentiles forever. It was given, something that is given is a gift. God does not take back the gifts he gives.

You might also find the following verse interesting;
Eze 42:20 He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place.
Isn’t it interesting that the dome of the rock stands about 300 feet from the original temple’s location. Could the dome of the rock be Ezkiel’s profane place? Could the dome of the rock be the abomination of desolation?

 

[Jwmac]

What are the seven chuches of the earth....jews,christians,islam,hinu,catholics,buddaism? I really want to know

 

[cfultz3]

What are the seven chuches of the earth....jews,christians,islam,hinu,catholics,buddaism? I really want to know

The seven Churchs which are spoken about in Revelation each has this in common: Jesus Christ and all which was spoken of Him in Scripture. One will not find Him in those religions who deny Him as the Son of God.

 

[zone]

how are we all doing on this thread?

have we agreed God has Two Covenants and Two Peoples and Two Witnesses yet?

have we determined Daniel's magical 70th week means the Dome of the Rock is the Abomination?

 

[cfultz3]

no arguments here

 

[SarahM777]

UMMM just a quick question didn't the Lord give certain conditions BEFORE the Lord would return the Jews to the land?

Could this be it?

Leviticus 26

[SUP]40 [/SUP]“‘But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors—their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me,[SUP]41[/SUP]which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, [SUP]42 [/SUP]I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaacand my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land.[SUP]43 [/SUP]For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.’”

Deuteronomy 30

30 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, [SUP]3 [/SUP]then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes[SUP][a][/SUP] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. [SUP]5 [/SUP]He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord your God will put all these curses on your enemies who hate and persecute you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]You will again obey the Lord and follow all his commands I am giving you today. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Then the Lord your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The Lord will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your ancestors, [SUP]10 [/SUP]if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.


I may be missing something but isn't the condition that they MUST return to the Lord and OBEY Him first and then He will return them to the land not the other way around? Wouldn't that mean that God is breaking His own covenant?

 

[doulos]

What are the seven chuches of the earth....jews,christians,islam,hinu,catholics,buddaism? I really want to know

Do you mean the seven churches of Asia spoken about in Rev?
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

If so maybe you should start another thread to discuss it rather then derail this thread anymore then it already has been.

 

[doulos]

UMMM just a quick question didn't the Lord give certain conditions BEFORE the Lord would return the Jews to the land?

Could this be it?

Leviticus 26

[SUP]40 [/SUP]“‘But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors—their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me,[SUP]41[/SUP]which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin,[SUP]42 [/SUP]I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaacand my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land.[SUP]43 [/SUP]For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God.[SUP]45 [/SUP]But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.’”

Deuteronomy 30

30 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations,[SUP]2 [/SUP]and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today,[SUP]3 [/SUP]then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes[SUP][a][/SUP] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back.[SUP]5 [/SUP]He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors.[SUP]6 [/SUP]The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord your God will put all these curses on your enemies who hate and persecute you.[SUP]8 [/SUP]You will again obey the Lord and follow all his commands I am giving you today.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then the Lord your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The Lord will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your ancestors,[SUP]10 [/SUP]if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.


I may be missing something but isn't the condition that they MUST return to the Lord and OBEY Him first and then He will return them to the land not the other way around? Wouldn't that mean that God is breaking His own covenant?

Yes you are missing something. No, God is not breaking His covenant. The verses you quote are speaking of restorations that occurred far in our past, not the final restoration of the Jews to their land. Consider the following verses;
Eze 36:19-26 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Hope this helps. May God bless your studies!

 

[jb]

Right to the year . . .

Revelation 12:6 "And the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

1948-1260=688 A.D., the exact year that the Islamic governor of the holy land, Kalipha Abd el Malik ibn Marwan, began construction of the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount of God most holy.

 

[Therapon]

video

A person stoops to ridicule when they can't refute the argument. It's an example of, "if you cannot dispute the message, shoot the messenger."

 

[jb]

A person stoops to ridicule when they can't refute the argument. It's an example of, "if you cannot dispute the message, shoot the messenger."

I have already refuted your erroneous method of prophetic interpretation elsewhere (in This post), so why would I repeat myself, your method is simply wrong, so, no matter how much you keep repeating your matra, it will not make it correct and you will always end up with a prophetic delusion!

 

[doulos]

I have already refuted your erroneous method of prophetic interpretation elsewhere (in This post), so why would I repeat myself, your method is simply wrong, so, no matter how much you keep repeating your matra, it will not make it correct and you will always end up with a prophetic delusion!

If you are referring to what you said in post7 you have not refuted anything. All that post showed is that you follow one of the traditionally taught doctrines that can easily be proven to be in error.

Your belief that in prophecy days cannot mean years not only contradicts what many of the former ages (Job8:8 instructs to enquire of those from the former ages)believed and taught, but it also stands against what can be demonstrated from fulfilled prophecy.
Dan 9:25 - 27 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The only one of the four decrees that ordered the rebuilding of Jerusalem that included rebuilding the wall is the one issued by Artaxerxes in 444/445BC (seeNeh2). There are 483 days in 69 weeks (7x69=483). But the Christ was not killed 483 literal days after the restoration order so these days can not be literal days. Could they be years? Let’s have a look and see if it works. Let’s start at 444BC and proceed 483 years into the future and we come to 39AD. Nope doesn’t look like a fit, but wait a minute wasn’t a year to Daniel 360 days? Isn’t our calendar based on 365 ¼ days per year? So if Daniels years are 360 days and our calendar is based on 365 ¼ days we must convert Daniel’s years to fit our calendar. We could figure out how many days are in 483 of Daniels years and then divide that number by 365 ¼ to find out how many of Daniels year fit our calendar or we could make it simple by multiplying 483 x .9857 (coversion factor) to see how many of our calendars years they equal. 483 x .9857 = 476.09 which when rounded to whole years would be 476, so lets see how that fits. So let’s try again starting at 444BC and proceeding 476 years into the future takes us to 32AD. Bingo we have a fit, there you have it proof that a prophetic day is equal to a year!

While many Christians don't hesitate for a moment to use this day = year language of prophecy for at least 69 of Daniel's 70 weeks, they then don't hesitate to discard this language in regard to other days, weeks, and months problems assigned to us by prophecy, when this language doesn't suit their doctrine. The application of sound principles of hermeneutics require a consistent approach rather than picking and choosing that which suits our pre-conceived notions, while discarding verses that appear to contradict them.


Concerning your view that says the Jewish idiom time, times and a half is 3 ½ times you might want to consult a few Hebrew scholars to see if that is what it really means. Many Hebrew scholars will tell you it is a Jeewish idiom representing 2 ½. Consider the following verse as translated in the KJV when compared to how an English translation of Tanach translates the same verse.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. KJV

Dan7:25 And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end. http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16495
So you see your doctrinally based argument from post #7 is far from convincing nor does it prove Therapon to be in error.

May God bless your studies!!