WHERE ARE WE TODAY IN THE BIRTH PAINS???

[peacefulbeliever]

what tribulation?
the magic 7 years?
the 70th week magically severed from the other 69 and dragged into the future 2000 years?


12:1a At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. Rev. 12:7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angesl fought against the dragon and his angels fought back.

12:1b There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.
Matt. 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--never to be equaled again.

12:1c,2 But at that time your people ---everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting contempt.

Even if I didn't believe in dispensations --- I could see the correlation. . . .
Daniel 8 Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision. Son of man, he said to me, understand that the vision concerns the time of the end. . . .He said: I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. . . . .26) . . but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.

what you are doing is taking Daniel, and trying to make an IDENTICAL match, in every respect TO REVELATION, in every detail and make it about OUR FUTURE.

you refuse to take your information PRIMARILY from the Gospels and Epistles!
standard for dispies!

OT prophecy concerns future events. . . the Gospels contain future events and the Epistles also contain future events. I am not literally seated in heavenly places YET but there is coming a time in the future when I will literally be seated in heavenly places with Jesus Christ and I have been sealed with the holy spirit guaranteeing me that promise.

JESUS NEVER, EVER, EVER taught a future millennium. but this is nearly impossible to explain to a dispensationalist.

Why then is the "thousand years" of the devil being bound for that period of time then let loose for a short time. . . shown to John in revelation. . . Never mind, I forgot that you believe Satan is bound NOW. . .

why not read the work of a FORMER dispensationalist?
you can always take back your current beliefs.

I really don't want to change my beliefs. . .quite happy with them just as you are happy with yours.

 

[Abiding]

I wish someone would start a Millennium thread and explain exactly what it is.
And how it can even exist after Christs return.

 

[Abiding]

Pondering...hmm..am i quite happy with my beliefs?

 

[Abiding]

taking the theory that because the consummation of all things is yet
to come and apply that to eschatology then it must also pertain to
soteriology.

It must be seen that everything is not finished. But if your not
"really" seated in the heavenlies then your not really saved.
And the devil doesnt even exist. Ever seen him?

 

[zone]

Even if I didn't believe in dispensations --- I could see the correlation. . . .
Daniel 8 Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision. Son of man, he said to me, understand that the vision concerns the time of the end. . . .He said: I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. . . . .26) . . but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.

right...70 weeks were determined.
it's long over.

now, the Gospel. that's it.

I really don't want to change my beliefs. . .quite happy with them just as you are happy with yours.

this i respect
take care

 

[peacefulbeliever]

taking the theory that because the consummation of all things is yet
to come and apply that to eschatology then it must also pertain to
soteriology.

It must be seen that everything is not finished. But if your not
"really" seated in the heavenlies then your not really saved.
And the devil doesnt even exist. Ever seen him?

Let me just say. . . I am figuratively, spiritually, seated in the heavenlies because I have been sealed, my place is reserved!

If I am literally seated in the heavenlies. . . I'm not sure I like heaven. . .

I see the devil in every day life every where. . . Do you ever read a newspaper? watch the news on TV?

 

[Abiding]

Let me just say. . . I am figuratively, spiritually, seated in the heavenlies because I have been sealed, my place is reserved!

If I am literally seated in the heavenlies. . . I'm not sure I like heaven. . .

I see the devil in every day life every where. . . Do you ever read a newspaper? watch the news on TV?

Do you think for instance....lets just say for conversation only.
If the devil was to be completely taken away and all demons went with him.
Do you think the newspapers, news, tv would change much?

 

[Abiding]

Let me just say. . . I am figuratively, spiritually, seated in the heavenlies because I have been sealed, my place is reserved!

If I am literally seated in the heavenlies. . . I'm not sure I like heaven. . .

I see the devil in every day life every where. . . Do you ever read a newspaper? watch the news on TV?

Another question. Do you think spiritually seated in the heavenlies is real?
Or do you think its just figurative, and if so what does that mean?

 

[Abiding]

Let me just say. . . I am figuratively, spiritually, seated in the heavenlies because I have been sealed, my place is reserved!

If I am literally seated in the heavenlies. . . I'm not sure I like heaven. . .

I see the devil in every day life every where. . . Do you ever read a newspaper? watch the news on TV?

Let me take one more step. Can the devil make a believer do anything?
If not than why? Is he bound in some way or something?
Colossians 1:13
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

 

[Pilgrimer]

where is this world today from what you see and know according to scriptures for the birth of God's great plan of salvation??

The birth of God's great plan of salvation? The "birth" of God's "great plan of salvation" was 2000 years ago, in a stable in the village of Bethlehem.

The "birth pangs" that Jesus spoke of wasn't the birth of the plan of salvation, it was the birth of the Church. The Church was born of faithful Israel, which is why to this day the Church of Jerusalem is called the "mother church."

The "pangs" referred to the troubles and trials that Israel went through in giving birth to the people of God, tribulations that increased until the Old Covenant age came to an end with the destruction of the Jewish state and the end of the Mosaic economy.

Or are you under the impression that those things had no significance for prophecy? perhaps just meaningless historical accidents?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Abiding]

The birth of God's great plan of salvation? The "birth" of God's "great plan of salvation" was 2000 years ago, in a stable in the village of Bethlehem.

The "birth pangs" that Jesus spoke of wasn't the birth of the plan of salvation, it was the birth of the Church. The Church was born of faithful Israel, which is why to this day the Church of Jerusalem is called the "mother church."

The "pangs" referred to the troubles and trials that Israel went through in giving birth to the people of God, tribulations that increased until the Old Covenant age came to an end with the destruction of the Jewish state and the end of the Mosaic economy.

Or are you under the impression that those things had no significance for prophecy? perhaps just meaningless historical accidents?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

I think it has significance lets go dig around and write a book
i picked these out for you in case it gets messy.

 

[doulos]

I wish someone would start a Millennium thread and explain exactly what it is.
And how it can even exist after Christs return.

Explaining the millenium isn't all that difficult, but considering that the milenium started in the first century it will be impossible for any one to present a Scripturally sound argument proving it occurs after the second coming. I'd advise not holding your breath.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Do you think for instance....lets just say for conversation only.
If the devil was to be completely taken away and all demons went with him.
Do you think the newspapers, news, tv would change much?

For conversation only. . . or should we say "speculation"? If the devil was completely taken away and all demons went with him. . .ALL news would change . . .I don't believe there would be anything "bad" to report on. The news would be filled with
stories of encouragement and edification.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Another question. Do you think spiritually seated in the heavenlies is real?
Or do you think its just figurative, and if so what does that mean?

I think spiritually seated in the heavenlies is real as for my position in Christ. . .but it's figurative in that I am not there YET.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Let me take one more step. Can the devil make a believer do anything?
If not than why? Is he bound in some way or something?
Colossians 1:13
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

I think the believer can be influenced to do wrong. . . maybe you can withstand the wiles of the devil, but I will admit that I am weak and sometimes I fall. One day I WILL be totally delivered from the power of darkness. . . and one day I WILL be in the kingdom.

 

[Abiding]

Explaining the millenium isn't all that difficult, but considering that the milenium started in the first century it will be impossible for any one to present a Scripturally sound argument proving it occurs after the second coming. I'd advise not holding your breath.

Well then please start a thread and "easily" explain it. Why would it make a difference what anyone
believes to make a Scripturally sound proof it it?

 

[Abiding]

For conversation only. . . or should we say "speculation"? If the devil was completely taken away and all demons went with him. . .ALL news would change . . .I don't believe there would be anything "bad" to report on. The news would be filled with
stories of encouragement and edification.

Ok if thats what you believe....so then you think men are just good and encouraging folk
and all the bad is what the devil is making man do? James doesnt agree at all. But i see your position.

 

[cfultz3]

what is the purpose of putting on the full armor of God?

 

[Abiding]

I think spiritually seated in the heavenlies is real as for my position in Christ. . .but it's figurative in that I am not there YET.

Is the devil figurative? jk nevermind..ok then.

 

[Abiding]

what is the purpose of putting on the full armor of God?

Because your in a spiritual battle with the flesh the world and the devil.
When amils explain that Rev 20 says the devil is bound to not be able to
bring the nations under his power, they always qualify what that means.

Bound? Yes!, taking off the earth NO! limited? yes! Inactive? No!
But people want to wax silly and toss in objections rather than just
understand whats being explained.