Heresy on Christianchat

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
None at all. He was a philosopher not one of the apostles instructed to write the scriptures.
then why would we start with him? should we not start with the apostles?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
This is because I want to make a good point or atleast attempt too. Why do we need to start with the Apostles?
Because what we have written down by the apostles is inspired by God. and not in error. What some man 300 years later said may have truth, and also error. Thus should we not look at what can be proven by inspiration. and what may or may not ever be proven, by men??
 
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TosinAsLeader

Guest
Because what we have written down by the apostles is inspired by God. and not in error. What some man 300 years later said may have truth, and also error. Thus should we not look at what can be proven by inspiration. and what may or may not ever be proven, by men??
Everything written in the bible is G-d breathed. (2 Timothy 3:16) Putting our faith in the Apostles as someone to look up to would ultimately lead us astray. However, looking to both the philosophers and apostles help us to think, not believe or put faith into.

EDIT: Peter denied Jesus 3 times. The Garden of Gethsemane? Turning the little children away from Christ?
The Apostles where not in error?
 
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MidniteWelder

Guest
EDIT: Peter denied Jesus 3 times. The Garden of Gethsemane? Turning the little children away from Christ?
The Apostles where not in error?
Was Peter not enlightened and his error removed,
Did Christ not foresee the error and even forewarned him of it so that when it happened he would know Christ is all truth.
After being enlightened by truth why then would any of the apostles writings contain any error since God's inspired words can only contain truth
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Everything written in the bible is G-d breathed. (2 Timothy 3:16) Putting our faith in the Apostles as someone to look up to would ultimately lead us astray. However, looking to both the philosophers and apostles help us to think, not believe or put faith into.

EDIT: Peter denied Jesus 3 times. The Garden of Gethsemane? Turning the little children away from Christ?
The Apostles where not in error?
How do you know Peter denied him three times?

Because what was written about him was inspired. Not in error.

Have you personally met augustine? if you did not. can you say the things written about him? or the things writtenthat CLAIM to be what he said are not in error?
 
Aug 17, 2007
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The Major Disadvantage Is That The Rule Against Heresy Is Too Vague And Too Subjective Since Heresy Is A Very Vague Term. Unlike A Church's Website, This Site Does Not Have A Statement Of Faith And A Publicized List Of "What We Believe" And They Do Not Have A Mission Statement. In Fact They Do Not State The Definition Of What Heresy Is According To How This Place Is Run So Pretty Much One Could Be BannD Wiyhout A Warning For Something That They Said honestly Unknowingly That was "heresy" In The Mods Opinion. It Is Like thry Are Out To Get somebody
 
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7seven7

Guest
Everything written in the bible is G-d breathed. (2 Timothy 3:16) Putting our faith in the Apostles as someone to look up to would ultimately lead us astray. However, looking to both the philosophers and apostles help us to think, not believe or put faith into.

EDIT: Peter denied Jesus 3 times. The Garden of Gethsemane? Turning the little children away from Christ?
The Apostles where not in error?
LOL! little brother, you bring up some excellent points. But I must say that I do agree with eternally-grateful when he says that Scripture is the place to start studying your faith. St. Augustine WAS a saint and STILL IS! But I will talk from personal experience. When I was in prison, I had a dream/vision or whatever people want to call it. It was something out of this world and I can't find a word suitable enough for it. But when I came out of it, I had this UNBEARABLE HUNGER to know God. In prison you have access only to what they want you to have access to lol. I asked for a Bible. I read that Bible twice in 2 months, and I had never read a book in my life. It was the best thing I could ever have done. The Bible is what reinforced my hunger for God!!! I say to everyone that the most important commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul. As humans we need to know someone before we love them like this, and the BEST way to know God is by reading His word. But don't, by any means, be scared to read up about the saints. They are called saints because they led a very God-filled life and obeyed His commandments so vigorously. They do have alot that we can learn from them. But I really suggest that you read the Holy Bible first, brother. You will see how beautifully perfect this Lord God of ours put everything together, and how it all makes sense. And don't ever forget to listen to God when He talks to you. God bless!!
 
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7seven7

Guest
Everything written in the bible is G-d breathed. (2 Timothy 3:16) Putting our faith in the Apostles as someone to look up to would ultimately lead us astray. However, looking to both the philosophers and apostles help us to think, not believe or put faith into.

EDIT: Peter denied Jesus 3 times. The Garden of Gethsemane? Turning the little children away from Christ?
The Apostles where not in error?
BTW, I LOVE ST. AUGUSTINE !!!! AND ST. IGNATIUS AND ST. FRANCIS !!!! Not as much as I love GOD, but I really love them nevertheless!!!
 
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7seven7

Guest
Thanks for your answer, now is confession for forgiveness to get more forgiveness? And are we not to have our consciemces purged from sin via the cross. I say and ask this because of the scripture that states this
2 Corinthians 1:12[ Paul’s Change of Plans ] We can say with confidence and a clear conscience that we have lived with a God-given holiness and sincerity in all our dealings. We have depended on God’s grace, not on our own human wisdom. That is how we have conducted ourselves before the world, and especially toward you.
1 Timothy 1:5The purpose of my instruction is that all believers would be filled with love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and genuine faith.
1 Timothy 1:19Cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences; as a result, their faith has been shipwrecked.
Titus 1:15Everything is pure to those whose hearts are pure. But nothing is pure to those who are corrupt and unbelieving, because their minds and consciences are corrupted.

Now the folloowing is how I found out to get a clear conscience
Hebrews 9:9This is an illustration pointing to the present time. For the gifts and sacrifices that the priests offer are not able to cleanse the consciences of the people who bring them.
Hebrews 9:14Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our consciences from sinful deeds so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins.

Hebrews 10:22let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.
Hebrews 13:18Pray for us, for our conscience is clear and we want to live honorably in everything we do.

Now in understanding how to accomplish this I ahd to give up my works and understand taht it is all done in his works, when he went to the cross it was the final sacrifice and the final shedding of Blood as the final payment for all sin he did once and for all
Romans 6:10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Hebrews 7:27who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Hebrews 9:12Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 10:10By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Jude 1:3[ Contend for the Faith ] Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Hebrews 9:22In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 10:18And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices.
So anyway when I discovered this and was asking God to forgive me conrinuously I kept hearing that I am already forgiven and that the whle world is by Christ at the cross itis finished. So I researched further and learned that the reason I continued in sin so much and could not stop it was when I saw this verse
Galatians 6:8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
I saw this that even if I thinkj of the flesh even not wanting to do things of the flesh I saw and see that it was sowing the flesh period and I was reaping the flesh by trying not to do the flesh as taught in almost all denominations. I sought then to start the new life praising my savior all day long thanking him that all my past sins are gone and in praising him all day long for him doing this for me, I found that by starting the new Life the old life had gotten forsaken my mind no longer pondering whether or not I will sin again or not, too busy with this new life for that to affect me any longer, too busy thanking God for purging my conscience from even pondering sin. Thanks Charlie it is a pleasure to have met you here and desire to keep sharpening one another in the Faith of Christ
If only everyone's new life was as strong as your's in their faith in Him brother, then i would agree with you 100%. Some say that "all you have to do is say I believe in Christ as our saviour" and you're saved, not realising (i don't think) what true realization of Christ is, and misleading alot of people into thinking that these words alone is all that is needed. I do agree with you, 100%, when you say that your new life had caused your old life to be forsaken, because I experience the exact same thing, where EVERY DECISION I make now is made in the name of Christ. You and I, I think, have truly experienced Christ in our lives and have true faith in Him. But again, alot of people are misled into thinking that true faith in Him is only in words. The way we live our lives reflects how much we love and know God, in every decision we make, from speaking a word, to driving a car, to the thoughts we allow to enter in to our minds!!
Howard, brother, I can't argue every comment you leave, simply because your wisdom is at a level that I can only look forward to reaching. But I will promise you that I will read, watch and pray for the Lord to show me if I am doing anything wrong, or that He will give an answer that He wants me to give you. God bless you and continue to guide you as you allow that wisdom to be seen.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
If only everyone's new life was as strong as your's in their faith in Him brother, then i would agree with you 100%. Some say that "all you have to do is say I believe in Christ as our saviour" and you're saved, not realising (i don't think) what true realization of Christ is, and misleading alot of people into thinking that these words alone is all that is needed. I do agree with you, 100%, when you say that your new life had caused your old life to be forsaken, because I experience the exact same thing, where EVERY DECISION I make now is made in the name of Christ. You and I, I think, have truly experienced Christ in our lives and have true faith in Him. But again, alot of people are misled into thinking that true faith in Him is only in words. The way we live our lives reflects how much we love and know God, in every decision we make, from speaking a word, to driving a car, to the thoughts we allow to enter in to our minds!!
Howard, brother, I can't argue every comment you leave, simply because your wisdom is at a level that I can only look forward to reaching. But I will promise you that I will read, watch and pray for the Lord to show me if I am doing anything wrong, or that He will give an answer that He wants me to give you. God bless you and continue to guide you as you allow that wisdom to be seen.

Scripture does say... there will be tares amidst the wheat :). Fact is... there's some tares on CC :eek:
 
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7seven7

Guest
then why would we start with him? should we not start with the apostles?
I don't think he was trying to start a Bible study conversation. I think he was just trying to start a conversation about St. Augustine, because he obviously enjoyed reading about him. God bless
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
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Jesus came to this age, His creation, to give the world the gift of salvation. It cost Him His Blood, and He suffered more than any man could ever suffer to deliver to each of us His true message, the Good News, also called the Gospel.

It is desireable to learn from Jesus Christ for His yoke is easy, His burden is light. It is not like the burden of the Pharisees who lay them on the unsuspecting, though they will not raise a finger to lift it themselves.

To send innocent believers to man designated saints to learn is the same as going to the Talmud as source authority, it is darkness and not light.

It is also sending people from the Master to the enemy. Saints are all who truly believe Yeshua, Jesus, and the Father knows who they are. Blessed be the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who has done everything for each of us. Listen to Him, learn from Him, and believe Him for He is the One Who loves us so perfectly, amen.
 
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7seven7

Guest
Jesus came to this age, His creation, to give the world the gift of salvation. It cost Him His Blood, and He suffered more than any man could ever suffer to deliver to each of us His true message, the Good News, also called the Gospel.

It is desireable to learn from Jesus Christ for His yoke is easy, His burden is light. It is not like the burden of the Pharisees who lay them on the unsuspecting, though they will not raise a finger to lift it themselves.

To send innocent believers to man designated saints to learn is the same as going to the Talmud as source authority, it is darkness and not light.

It is also sending people from the Master to the enemy. Saints are all who truly believe Yeshua, Jesus, and the Father knows who they are. Blessed be the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who has done everything for each of us. Listen to Him, learn from Him, and believe Him for He is the One Who loves us so perfectly, amen.
"To send innocent believers to man designated saints to learn is the same as going to the Talmud as source authority, it is darkness and not light."

But aren't we all saints? All us who believe Yeshua? St. Augustine believed Yeshua to. Do you really think it is wrong to learn from a man who lived his whole life according to Yeshua's teachings? I never told my little brother to learn from St. Augustine and forget about Jesus! But if it is darkness and not light to learn from St. Augustine who was a saint like the rest of us, then it is darkness and not light for him to learn from us too. But hang on, isn't it our job to teach and spread the Word, like St. Augustine did so well as well as living the Word too? Now I'm all confused. Nobody told anyone to ignore Christ's teachings, mate. Peace!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
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That sounds good, however it is our Father Who designates us all saints. The titled ones designated by men may or may not be also designated by our Father, it is not for men to judge. To send innocents to other men rather than to Jesus Christ is not direct, and can be disasterous. None of the so-called RCC saints have anything new to add to the Gospel of Jesus. He is the Word, not even the true saints may say this of themselves or anything they write. Do not be destroyed by what is falsely called knowledge for even the most intellectual criterea amassed by any individual is useless without wisdom.
"To send innocent believers to man designated saints to learn is the same as going to the Talmud as source authority, it is darkness and not light."

But aren't we all saints? All us who believe Yeshua? St. Augustine believed Yeshua to. Do you really think it is wrong to learn from a man who lived his whole life according to Yeshua's teachings? I never told my little brother to learn from St. Augustine and forget about Jesus! But if it is darkness and not light to learn from St. Augustine who was a saint like the rest of us, then it is darkness and not light for him to learn from us too. But hang on, isn't it our job to teach and spread the Word, like St. Augustine did so well as well as living the Word too? Now I'm all confused. Nobody told anyone to ignore Christ's teachings, mate. Peace!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
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Until very recently it was taught the one designated by the RCC a saint, Patrick, arrived to Ireland in a boat made of stone. There are yet Catholics who believe this and teach this although even the RCC dismissed St. Patrick decades ago as being ficticious. It is taught here in Spain that Santiago (St. James) brought the image of the Virgin of Almudena to Madrid. These same believers have dubbed James "Moor Killer." Another of these illustrious Catholics is given the title, Jew Killer. Today hundreds of millions are being paid out for expenses across Spain for what they call Holy Week, while people are losing their homes and hungry. Does any of this reflect the love that is God? If you believe this divergent behavior is normal for any church, all I can say to you is chapeau to your reasoning. Very recently in Valencia, Spain, there was a plea for people to submit all the miracles attributed to Mary, that most blessed woman. I am not confused though others may be, the only miracles are worked by our Father in the name of Jesus Christ, not be those who are presently asleep.
 
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7seven7

Guest
That sounds good, however it is our Father Who designates us all saints. The titled ones designated by men may or may not be also designated by our Father, it is not for men to judge. To send innocents to other men rather than to Jesus Christ is not direct, and can be disasterous. None of the so-called RCC saints have anything new to add to the Gospel of Jesus. He is the Word, not even the true saints may say this of themselves or anything they write. Do not be destroyed by what is falsely called knowledge for even the most intellectual criterea amassed by any individual is useless without wisdom.
Brother, first of all, St. Augustine never claimed to add to the Gospel, and neither did the Catholic Church claim that St. Augustine added to the Gospel. He taught people about the Gospel just like Luther taught about the Gospel. From what you're saying, our Father is who designates us all saints, right? So does that mean that you can preach? or not? If St. Augustine can't preach the Gospel, through his writings or his life, then neither can we! So, are you allowed to teach others about the Gospel? Have you been designated a saint by the Almighty? If you believe that it is wrong that St. Augustine teaches us about Christ, then you have to believe that it is wrong that you teach others about Christ. Otherwise, it is a contradiction.