Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

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eternally-gratefull

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#1,241
#1,241
RickShafer said:
O.K. E.G.; I'm sorry I lashed out at you.
But I have reasoned with the man to great extent.
And he has repeatedly said Jesus is not the only way to salvation.
- - - - I can pull up the references again(though I already have).
Let him speak for himself.
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go ahead and pull them up. I have read them, and I do not see it. What I see is misinterpreting what he said.

I had a great LONG conversation with him in email to get to the point of what he believes. And although we may not agree with everything. his gospel is sound.. he is my brother. and if your saved, he is your brother too!!

 
RickShafer

RickShafer

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mark54 said:
I understand your position Earl, but cannot have more than one conversation at a time, and as thus fasr you have not stated va person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation, I have nothng that I would want to debate with you about this subject
God Bless
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There's one.
 
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mark54

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RickShafer said:
O.K. E.G.; I'm sorry I lashed out at you.
But I have reasoned with the man to great extent.
And he has repeatedly said Jesus is not the only way to salvation.
- - - - I can pull up the references again(though I already have).
Let him speak for himself.
Click to expand...
I understand your position Earl, but cannot have more than one conversation at a time, and as thus fasr you have not stated va person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation, I have nothng that I would want to debate with you about this subject
God Bless

So everyone is clear, you cited the above post as reason to say I do not believe Jesus is the only way to salvation/to inherit eternal life


You have no choice but to come out with what you do, do you, for you have no scripture whatsoever to supporet your extra bilical demands unto salvation, so you resort to this
That is very telling Rick, very telling indeed

Jesus is the only way to the Father, but you don't have to believe he is the one true God unto salvation
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#1,244
#1,244
RickShafer said:
There's one.
Click to expand...
Mark said:
you have not stated va person must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation,

John said:
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Where is the contradiction? or the heresy?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

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Here's another
mark54 said:
So anyone who believes Jesus is not the one true God is a heretic
I guess that applies to Christ and Paul as well then to you

And we might as well add John to that in your eyes, for he agreed with Chrtist as to who a person must believe Christ to be unto salvation, but you refuse to accept that requirement of belief. And he said no one has seen God at anytime

Yoy really are a babe in the faith aren't you. And you are totally reliant on your scholars and theologians to learn, you'd be lost without them. Actually, I am begining to see just how tragic this is

And I don't profess to be wonderfully mature in the faith BTW
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mark54

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This nearly always happens in the end, they have no scripture to back up their extra biblical demands so the lies and distortions appear, pitiful is the only word for it
 
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mark54

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RickShafer said:
Here's another
Click to expand...
Are you mad, or just totallly desperate or both?

You are on the internet Rick, don't worry what people think of you to bthe extent you have to resort to this kind of thing in an effort to sidetrack away from the hopeless position you are in. You're just digging a deepr hole for yourself
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,249
#1,249
RickShafer said:
Here's another
Click to expand...
Mark asked-
So anyone who believes Jesus is not the one true God is a heretic

John and jesus said:
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

So if JESUS himself said that the father was the ONE TRUE GOD. Is mark a heretic and unsaved because he believes what Jesus said?

that is the question he keeps asking that no one seems to want to answer.

and in niether of those two responses did he claim there was any other way but jesus to get to heaven.. thats your misinterpretation of it.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

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This is the one that got me going:
mark54 said:
You are not crazy at all, and make a point of the most important significance, however, as the other two you mention believe a person must accept Christ is the one true God unto salvation, the point you put so well is lost on them, but I do accept it. And I have never told anyone they are not a Christian/unsaved or will end up in hell, neither have I in my heart condemned anyone. I have many faults don't get me wrong, but I am no mans judge, and to condemn a person for standing on the plain words of Christ is sheer folly and dangerous to put it mildly
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RickShafer

RickShafer

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mark54 said:
Are you mad, or just totallly desperate or both?

You are on the internet Rick, don't worry what people think of you to bthe extent you have to resort to this kind of thing in an effort to sidetrack away from the hopeless position you are in. You're just digging a deepr hole for yourself
Click to expand...
I'm just pointing out your beliefs.
No hole.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,252
#1,252
RickShafer said:
This is the one that got me going:
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Again he did not claim Jesus was not the only way to salvation. he is asking a question.

Is it true that people has to believe jesus is the "ONE TRUE GOD" to be saved. when even jesus himself states, that the FATHER is the one true God?

is anyone willing to answer him? or keep making false accusations against him?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

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You said it Mark, you said what you did:

Mark54 said - "however, as the other two you mention believe a person must accept Christ is the one true God unto salvation"

You said.....not me.
 
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mark54

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RickShafer said:
I'm just pointing out your beliefs.
No hole.
Click to expand...
Then point them out honestly
I believe, as Jesus plainly stated only the Father is the one true God
There is no way to the Father but by the Son, but you don't have to believe the son is the one true God to come to the Father through the Son

You know that of course, but you are showing your desperation now, and seem to be trying to persuade a wider audience by distorting my beliefs
Don't play to the gallery rick with lies and distortions , it doesn't look good if you do, just shows desperation
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,256
#1,256
RickShafer said:
You said it Mark, you said what you did:

Mark54 said - "however, as the other two you mention believe a person must accept Christ is the one true God unto salvation"

You said.....not me.
Click to expand...
Do you believe this? that mark has to believe Jesus is the "one true God" to be saved? even though Jesus said this is not even true?
 
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mark54

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RickShafer said:
You said it Mark, you said what you did:

Mark54 said - "however, as the other two you mention believe a person must accept Christ is the one true God unto salvation"

You said.....not me.
Click to expand...
But that is not the biblical requirement for salvation is it Rick, that's your problem, and it is not the requirement of belief unto eternal life according to Christ Himself
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

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Yes, it is Mark.
How can you believe in one who isn't chosen?
Jesus was NOT just a perfect man. He was the Word manifest.
The requirement is to believe on Him who the Father has sent.
Jesus Christ IS the messiah.
He IS God made flesh.
The requirement is to believe on Him who the Father has sent.
Not a mere mortal. Jesus was not just a perfect man.
He was God incarnate, the second person of the trinity.
No man has ascended to the Father except He who has first descended.
Read it Mark. Plain as day.

John 3:13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Clear as noonday Mark.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,259
#1,259
RickShafer said:
Yes, it is Mark.
How can you believe in one who isn't chosen?
Jesus was NOT just a perfect man. He was the Word manifest.
The requirement is to believe on Him who the Father has sent.
Jesus Christ IS the messiah.
He IS God made flesh.
The requirement is to believe on Him who the Father has sent.
Not a mere mortal. Jesus was not just a perfect man.
He was God incarnate, the second person of the trinity.
No man has ascended to the Father except He who has first descended.
Read it Mark. Plain as day.
John 3:13King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Click to expand...
mark deny's none of these things.

your focused on one thing. and you missing the two words which would show what mark is saying "ONE TRUE"

granted. in my almost 40 years of being in the chritian church, I have never heard anyone make such an argument. and i was taken aback at first also. assuming he is like most who do not believe jesus is "GOD" minus the two words.. if we listen to what he says with open minds. we will see he is NOT one of them.

he just claims the Father is the ultimate authority. even Jesus declared this. not only in the NT but the OT as well..so we are going to judge hium because he claims what jesus himself says?
 
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mark54

Banned
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Jan 11, 2013
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RickShafer said:
Yes, it is Mark.
How can you believe in one who isn't chosen?
Jesus was NOT just a perfect man. He was the Word manifest.
The requirement is to believe on Him who the Father has sent.
Jesus Christ IS the messiah.
He IS God made flesh.
The requirement is to believe on Him who the Father has sent.
Not a mere mortal. Jesus was not just a perfect man.
He was God incarnate, the second person of the trinity.
No man has ascended to the Father except He who has first descended.
Read it Mark. Plain as day.
John 3:13King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Click to expand...
Christ is the son of God, he reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet

You're getting more and more desperate aren't you, it is sad really to see you like thjis, that is the truth
You've had to resort, to lying about my beliefs, distorting them, and all becasue you have no scripture to support your extra bbilical demands unto salvation, and your trying so hard to produce scripture to support your extra biblical demands but it is useless of course
Like I say, you are in a tiny minority, nearly all the ministers in the churches(who you don't believe should be ministers incidentally) don't want to know of your extra bilical demands
But heck, this is the internet and we have to make allowances for that.
Carrty on with your empty bluster Rick, you haven't got anything else after all have you on this subject
 
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