NIV has left out some scripture

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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#61
Can you tell me what Non-English speaking people are meant to read? If reading anything other than the English King James is so bad, then as I said previously, they are all doomed for reading something other than the King James, if they are not doomed, then of course that means it dosnt really matter what version of Bible you read, so this King James only stance is ridiculous.
The people who do not speak English have bible translations in foreign languages which they can read. There are reliable foreign translations out there like the Reina Valera 1909, and the French Louis Segond Bible, as well as Martin Luther's German Bible just to name a few. And as long as a foreign translation is translated from the King James Text, then it is fine.
[HR][/HR]However if the foreign translation they are reading is translated from the NIV, then what they now have is a corrupt foreign translation. If you use the NIV, what will basically happen is that that NIV will produce rotten fruit in your life. If you want to grow and mature spiritually, you are going to have to get a King James Bible and read it and believe it. Also, if you weren't aware that nearly all English translations produced sine 1881 are yoked up to the Roman Catholic church. Don't think so? Go buy a catholic bible and compare the missing verses in it with the NIV, they match exactly.

 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#62
I sure do peacefulbeliever,

every word of God is important. If you change just one word in the Bible, it can effect an entire Bible doctrine, if you don't think so. Just get a King James Bible and get a New World Translation bible (Jehovah's Witness bible) and go to John 1:1. And read both passages and you'll see exactly what I am talking about.

Let me show you what nearly all of the new versions do in 1 John 4:3, now I am going to first give you the correct and perfect reading from the God-honoured King James Holy Bible. And then I will give you the incorrect reading which nearly all the new versions have in this passage:
Yes, I also believe that every word of God is important. But that's not exactly what you are arguing - You are arguing that you think the KJV is the only Bible with the "correct and true reading". You are saying that any other Bible other than the KJV, especially if the words aren't exactly the same then there has been "corruption". Words can carry the same meaning without being exactly the same. It just takes using some common sense in reading. . . .

Correct and true reading of 1 John 4:3

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Incorrect and False Readings of 1 John 4:3
New International Version (©2011)
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2>This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3>but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

So your argument is with the fact that v3 does not reiterate "Jesus in the flesh". Common sense would lead you to read verse 3 - but every spirit that does not acknowledge - acknowledge what? v2> that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Wow, it actually means the same thing.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.
This Bible I am not familiar with. But it's the same thing - if someone (footnote: (Greek) "If a spirit") does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus - actually this one even goes further when saying - acknowledges the truth about Jesus - what is the truth about Jesus? That he came in the flesh as the Son of God; he shed his blood for the remission of sin and was resurrected. Of course, we could just say anyone who confesses Jesus Christ is Lord is of God but those that don't confess Jesus Christ is Lord has the spirit of antichrist or is the spirit of antichrist.
English Standard Version (©2001)
and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
Here again v2> By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. . and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. . . Confess that Jesus what v2>has come in the flesh.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
2>By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3> and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
But every spirit who does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist; you have heard that he is coming, and he is already in the world now.
I'm not familiar with this Bible either. This is how you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. But every spirit who does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist; you have heard that he is coming, and he is already in the world now. (footnote*other mss read confess that Jesus has come in the flesh.)
NET Bible (©2006)
but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now is already in the world.
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of antichrist, which you have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.
american Standard Version
and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the'spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.
By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God: And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus (does away with Jesus), is not of God: and this is antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh and he is now already in the world.
Now Peacefulbeliever, let me ask you a question out of all those new translations which I displayed, that is in their rendering of 1 John 4:3. What happened to the phrase: IS COME IN THE FLESH?
Now that I have gone through the different translations which you displayed; each one represents the same thing if you take in v2 with v3. The major point of 1 John 4:2,3 in each translation - if someone confesses Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God and someone who doesn't is not of God.

That's how I know that some just look for any error they can find and do not look at the full meaning or concept of the verses they are comparing - which I must say - most people that use different translations do compare it with the KJV as well as with other translations.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#63
Yes, I also believe that every word of God is important. But that's not exactly what you are arguing - You are arguing that you think the KJV is the only Bible with the "correct and true reading". You are saying that any other Bible other than the KJV, especially if the words aren't exactly the same then there has been "corruption". Words can carry the same meaning without being exactly the same. It just takes using some common sense in reading. . . .


Peacefulbeliever. I know the KJV is the only Bible with the pure and perfect reading. I am not giving you my opinion, I am giving you a fact.

2>This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3>but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.


This passage in verse 2changes the word IS to HAS. And in verse 3, they remove the phrase: IS COME IN THE FLESH .

The phrase: Is Come In The Flesh is supposed to be in both Verses 2 and 3.


So your argument is with the fact that v3 does not reiterate "Jesus in the flesh". Common sense would lead you to read verse 3 - but every spirit that does not acknowledge - acknowledge what? v2> that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Wow, it actually means the same thing.

Well why does the NIV leave out the Phrase: Is Come in the flesh in verse 3?

Did you know that phrase is so important that there is a second time that it is mentioned in the Holy Scriptures? It is in 2 John 1:7.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. - 2 John 1:7 (King James Bible)

This Bible I am not familiar with. But it's the same thing - if someone (footnote: (Greek) "If a spirit") does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus - actually this one even goes further when saying - acknowledges the truth about Jesus - what is the truth about Jesus? That he came in the flesh as the Son of God; he shed his blood for the remission of sin and was resurrected. Of course, we could just say anyone who confesses Jesus Christ is Lord is of God but those that don't confess Jesus Christ is Lord has the spirit of antichrist or is the spirit of antichrist.


Okay and what exactly is the truth about Jesus? Do you see how vague the new versions are? It is not as descriptive as the King James Bible.


Here again v2> By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. . and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. . . Confess that Jesus what v2>has come in the flesh.

Again they change the word is to has.



2>By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3> and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.


They do the same thing to this passage.


I'm not familiar with this Bible either. This is how you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. But every spirit who does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist; you have heard that he is coming, and he is already in the world now. (footnote*other mss read confess that Jesus has come in the flesh.)

Again, the phrase is not has come in the flesh. The correct phrase is: Is Come In The Flesh.


By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of antichrist, which you have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

The right and correct reading is: Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.
Now they got it right in verse 2, but the American Standard Version left out the phrase: is come in the flesh in verse 3.

By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God: And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus (does away with Jesus), is not of God: and this is antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh and he is now already in the world.

The Douay-Rheims Bible also rendered and got verse 2 right. But aren't you able to see how they distorted verse 3? Again they remove the phrase: Is Come In The Flesh in verse 3. They rendered the phrase correctly in verse 2, but why did they leave it out of verse 3?


Now that I have gone through the different translations which you displayed; each one represents the same thing if you take in v2 with v3. The major point of 1 John 4:2,3 in each translation - if someone confesses Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God and someone who doesn't is not of God.

That's how I know that some just look for any error they can find and do not look at the full meaning or concept of the verses they are comparing - which I must say - most people that use different translations do compare it with the KJV as well as with other translations.

No, they do not all represent the same thing. I showed you in my response that in verse 2, most of the new versions change the present tense verb IS over to HAS. That is except for the American Standard Version and Douay-Rheims Bible. Yet they remove it from verse 3.

Also I showed you how they all removed the phrase IS COME IN THE FLESH from verse 3. Why did they remove it? Because they have the spirit of antichrist. It is that simple peacefulbeliever.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#64
Yes, I also believe that every word of God is important. But that's not exactly what you are arguing - You are arguing that you think the KJV is the only Bible with the "correct and true reading". You are saying that any other Bible other than the KJV, especially if the words aren't exactly the same then there has been "corruption". Words can carry the same meaning without being exactly the same. It just takes using some common sense in reading. . . .

2>This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3>but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

So your argument is with the fact that v3 does not reiterate "Jesus in the flesh". Common sense would lead you to read verse 3 - but every spirit that does not acknowledge - acknowledge what? v2> that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Wow, it actually means the same thing.


This Bible I am not familiar with. But it's the same thing - if someone (footnote: (Greek) "If a spirit") does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus - actually this one even goes further when saying - acknowledges the truth about Jesus - what is the truth about Jesus? That he came in the flesh as the Son of God; he shed his blood for the remission of sin and was resurrected. Of course, we could just say anyone who confesses Jesus Christ is Lord is of God but those that don't confess Jesus Christ is Lord has the spirit of antichrist or is the spirit of antichrist.

Here again v2> By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. . and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. . . Confess that Jesus what v2>has come in the flesh.

2>By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3> and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

I'm not familiar with this Bible either. This is how you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. But every spirit who does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist; you have heard that he is coming, and he is already in the world now. (footnote*other mss read confess that Jesus has come in the flesh.)

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of antichrist, which you have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God: And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus (does away with Jesus), is not of God: and this is antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh and he is now already in the world.

Now that I have gone through the different translations which you displayed; each one represents the same thing if you take in v2 with v3. The major point of 1 John 4:2,3 in each translation - if someone confesses Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God and someone who doesn't is not of God.

That's how I know that some just look for any error they can find and do not look at the full meaning or concept of the verses they are comparing - which I must say - most people that use different translations do compare it with the KJV as well as with other translations.

[HR][/HR]Let me share with you a brief article and excerpt from a man who has had experience in dealing with devious spirits:



Devious Spirits

By Pastor Anderson


John shows us in 1st John 4:1-3 and 2nd John 7th verse, how to tell if a spirit is of God, or not, and that is, if a spirit says that "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, that spirit is of God, and any which will not say that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God." It does not say; has come, or will come. A certain person was possessed by a spirit which claimed to be from God, and when I ask it if Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, it answered; "Of course! He not only came once, he will come one more time". This shows the deviousness of satan, for the answer, to most people would sound good. However, that answer was past tense and future tense, but "is" is present tense. When I pinned it down on this and insisted it say that Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh it started hissing at me. The sad part of it all is that this does not compute to most people today.
Why is it that so few preachers will confess that Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh? Could this not be because they are led by the wrong kind of spirit?
How can anyone lay claim to preaching the Word of the Lord, which is the only truth there is, if they do not understand that Jesus Christ not only has, and not only will, but is, present tense, come in the flesh? These are not my words.


Read for yourself, in 1st John 4:1 is written: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world".
Verse 2; "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"
Verse 3; "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is in the world".
Now turn with me to 2nd John, verse 7; "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

Nowhere else does John or any of the other disciples use the word ‘is’ in reference to past or future tense. ‘Is’ means now, today, present tense. Written out all 3 times. This is one Scripture which is ignored, and I cannot help but think satan must be clouding peoples mind.

I have not yet found one Minister of the Gospel who will say that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. They, along with any deceiving spirit will confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, and that he will come in the flesh, but not one of them will confess that he is come. That is now, present tense.
Here again, many of you following along or using your own Bibles may notice something awkwardly different to what I'm saying. The newer translations say that any spirit that says that Jesus Christ ‘has’ come in the flesh is of God. Another version leaves out the whole thing completely and just says "confesses Christ"--confesses about what? that He had a beard?

Be assured of this one thing. Any spirit regardless of their state of decadence, can say that Jesus Christ ‘has’ come in the flesh, and can say that He ‘will’ come in the flesh, but not one who is not of God can say that He ‘is’ come in the flesh.

Think about this for a minute. Anyone going by any of the newer translations of the Bible, when they hear a spirit say that Jesus Christ ‘has’ come in the flesh, or any variation to the original verse, will be convinced of its godliness, even if it is a demon of the worst kind.
I have tried many spirits who would readily confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and that he will come again, but could not say that he is come in the flesh. Sooooo many spirits or people just under the influence of them have tried EVERY way around it. In the result they have even cursed me, and tried to put a curse on me, but in my own opinion, it's a blessing to be cursed by ol' scratch, for I sure wouldn't want his blessings.



When the Scripture makes a statement as clear as that one, and there are no other Scriptures contrary to the statement, do not twist it, or ignore it. This is most potent tool we can have to testing the spirits, finding out who is who. It's a spiritual litmus test, word-for-word verbatim, ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES or variations....don't be afraid to press the issue, anyone truly of God would readily confess such a statement, with complete wording. Take a stand on it.

Once you have made a firm stand which cannot be shaken, even though you do not understand it, then God will reveal to you the truth of it.
If you want further proof, only the King James Version does a direct translation from the Greek, the word translated as "is come" is "erchomai" and it is defined as being a middle or present tense verb. I am not trying to tear anyone down, but rather I am trying to get everyone to wake up and see that no one has done one tenth as much as they could have done.
Do not ignore Scriptures you do not understand, and do not let pride keep you from admitting you do not understand. When someone makes a statement like; "There are some things we can not know." or, "Some things were not meant to be understood," we know they are speaking out of ignorance, for this goes directly against the scriptures. Pride and vanity keeps one from admitting they do not already understand all that is possible to be understood. The greatest reason they do not understand is that they believe so many untruths. This is unbelief.
______________________________________________________
Need More Proof?

If you still aren't convinced of the "KJV only" position, here are some very important verses of the KJV Bible compared with other populalar versions:
Revelation 22:14
KJV: Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life . . .
NIV, RSV: Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life . . .

Luke 4:4
KJV: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
NIV and RSV leaves out "but every word of God"

Acts 18:21
KJV: I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem . . .
NIV, RSV, ASV, ESV, NASB, NLT: omits all reference to feast day.

Ephesians 3:9
KJV: God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.
NIV, RSV: God, who created all things.

I Timothy 3:16 (subtle changes)
KJV: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
NIV: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
(The NIV tends to want to make Jesus into the Father, instead of saying He simply manifested Himself in flesh. Click Oneness for more on this heresy.)

I Corinthians 9:27
KJV: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection . . .
NIV: I beat my body and make it my slave . . .

Galatians 5:12
KJV: I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
NIV: As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
RSV: I wish those who unsettle you would mutilate themselves!

Isaiah 14:12
KJV: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
NIV: How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
RSV: How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn!
(Why Isaiah 14:12 is so important is because Jesus is called the morning star in Revelation. The other versions of the Bible make no differentiation between Lucifer and Jesus to the uneducated new Christian.)

Luke 4:8
KJV: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind Me, Satan: for it is written . . .
NIV: Jesus answered, It is written . . .
RSV: (like the NIV, also omits reference to Satan)

Song of Solomon 2:7 (a total change of gender!)
KJV: I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes, and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, till HE please.
NASB: I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, By the gazelles or by the hinds of the field, That you do not arouse or awaken my love until SHE pleases.

1 Corinthians 8:4
KJV: We know that an idol is nothing in the world.
NASB: We know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world. (no such thing as an idol?)

1st Samuel 13:1
KJV: Saul reigned one year; and when he had reigned two years over Israel...
NIV: Saul was 30 years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel 42 years.
NASB 1972, 1977 versions: Saul was 30 years old when he began to reign, and he reigned 32 years over Israel.
NASB 1995: Saul was 30 years old when he began to reign, and he reigned 42 years over Israel.
ASV: Saul was 40 years old when he began to reign; and when he had reigned 2 years over Israel.

______________________________________________________
Still think the KJV has problems?

All I can do at this point is turn you over to many authors who do a more exhaustive job than myself. For every anti-kjv book out there, there are just as many pro-kjv books, such as: David Otis Fullers "Which Bible", Dr. William P. Grady's "Final Authority", J. Sidlow Baxter's "Explore the Book", Alexander McClure's "The Translators Revived", and "The King James Version Defended" by Edward F. Hills just to name a few.
Click Supposed KJV Revisions to be well informed against anyone who wants to spread the propaganda that the KJV has changed since 1611.
If you think other versions of the bible are correct for changing 1st John 5:7, you need to look at thisDo you really think King James was gay? It would seem kinda stupid to be gay and yet authorize a Bible that put down homosexuality and called for stoning in the OT. Don't believe the rumors.
 
Jan 10, 2013
318
4
0
#65
The point you forget ChosebyHim is that
- you do not read the Bible in the language it was written in (Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic).
- you do not read the original King James Version Bible (1611)
- you quote the re-write of the KJV done many years later (1769)

That1769 re-write is different in a number of places as shown at a site by Rick Beckman
Here are the important differences
So here is a list of significant changes (i.e., changes which affect meaning) made to the KJV text since 1611. The 1611 reading is first, followed by the 1769.


  • 1 Corinthians 12:28 – “helpes in gouernmets” vs. “helps, governments”
  • Joshua 3:11 – “Arke of the Couenant, euen the Lord” vs. “ark of the covenant of the Lord”
  • 2 Kings 11:10 – “in the Temple” vs. “in the temple of the LORD”
  • Isaiah 49:13 – “for God” vs. “for the LORD”
  • Jeremiah 31:14 – “with goodnesse” vs. “with my goodness”
  • Jeremiah 51:30 – “burnt their dwelling places” vs. “burned her dwellingplaces”
  • Ezekiel 6:8 – “that he may” vs. “that ye may”
  • Ezekiel 24:5 – “let him seethe” vs. “let them seethe”
  • Ezekiel 24:7 – “powred it vpon the ground” vs. “poured it not upon the ground”
  • Ezekiel 48:8 – “which they shall” vs. “which ye shall”
  • Daniel 3:15 – “a fierie furnace” vs. “a burning fiery furnace”
  • Matthew 14:9 – “the othes sake” vs. “the oath’s sake”
  • 1 Corinthians 15:6 – “And that” vs. “After that”
  • 1 John 5:12 – “the Sonne, hath” vs. “the Son of God hath”
As you see, the KJV the KJV-only folks use (1789) has altered the text of the original written in 1611.
This is the exact crime which you state makes the NIV satanic!!
 
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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#66
Yes, I also believe that every word of God is important. But that's not exactly what you are arguing - You are arguing that you think the KJV is the only Bible with the "correct and true reading". You are saying that any other Bible other than the KJV, especially if the words aren't exactly the same then there has been "corruption". Words can carry the same meaning without being exactly the same. It just takes using some common sense in reading. . . .

2>This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3>but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

So your argument is with the fact that v3 does not reiterate "Jesus in the flesh". Common sense would lead you to read verse 3 - but every spirit that does not acknowledge - acknowledge what? v2> that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Wow, it actually means the same thing.


This Bible I am not familiar with. But it's the same thing - if someone (footnote: (Greek) "If a spirit") does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus - actually this one even goes further when saying - acknowledges the truth about Jesus - what is the truth about Jesus? That he came in the flesh as the Son of God; he shed his blood for the remission of sin and was resurrected. Of course, we could just say anyone who confesses Jesus Christ is Lord is of God but those that don't confess Jesus Christ is Lord has the spirit of antichrist or is the spirit of antichrist.

Here again v2> By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. . and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. . . Confess that Jesus what v2>has come in the flesh.

2>By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3> and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

I'm not familiar with this Bible either. This is how you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. But every spirit who does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist; you have heard that he is coming, and he is already in the world now. (footnote*other mss read confess that Jesus has come in the flesh.)

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of antichrist, which you have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God: And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus (does away with Jesus), is not of God: and this is antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh and he is now already in the world.

Now that I have gone through the different translations which you displayed; each one represents the same thing if you take in v2 with v3. The major point of 1 John 4:2,3 in each translation - if someone confesses Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God and someone who doesn't is not of God.

That's how I know that some just look for any error they can find and do not look at the full meaning or concept of the verses they are comparing - which I must say - most people that use different translations do compare it with the KJV as well as with other translations.

Also, here is a good video that may help you with this issue peacefulbeliever:

Modern Bible Translations and the Spirit of Antichrist


[video=youtube;WBMBE_InC30]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBMBE_InC30[/video]



[HR][/HR]
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,261
6,547
113
#67
If some of these posts were used to make a wig, it would be full of split ends.............
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#68
The point you forget ChosebyHim is that
- you do not read the Bible in the language it was written in (Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic).
- you do not read the original King James Version Bible (1611)
- you quote the re-write of the KJV done many years later (1769)

That1769 re-write is different in a number of places as shown at a site by Rick Beckman
Here are the important differences


As you see, the KJV the KJV-only folks use (1789) has altered the text of the original written in 1611.
This is the exact crime which you state makes the NIV satanic!!
The King James Version of 1611

The Myth of Early Revisions

By Pastor David F. Reagan

[SIZE=-1]© Copyrighted by David F. Reagan. As long as this notice is included, permission is granted to copy and distribute this material (electronically or in print form) for individual use or for small groups. All other rights (such as use in books, periodicals, on web pages, etc.) are reserved and must be obtained by permission from the author. Contact David Reagan at Antioch Baptist Church, 5709 N. Broadway, Knoxville, TN, 37918 – (865) 688-0780 – Fax (865) 689-1611 – [email protected] [/SIZE]
[HR][/HR]INTRODUCTION

Men have been "handling the word of God deceitfully" (II Cor. 4:2) ever since the devil first taught Eve how. From Cain to Balaam, from Jehudi to the scribes and Pharisees, from the Dark Age theologians to present-day scholars, the living words of the Almighty God have been prime targets for man’s corrupting hand. The attacks on the Word of God are threefold: addition, subtraction, and substitution. From Adam’s day to the computer age, the strategies have remained the same. There is nothing new under the sun.
One attack which is receiving quite a bit of attention these days is a direct attack on the Word of God as preserved in the English language: the King James Version of 1611. The attack referred to is the myth which claims that since the King James Version of 1611 has already been revised four times, there should be and can be no valid objection to other revisions. This myth was used by the English Revisers of 1881 and has been revived in recent years by fundamentalist scholars hoping to sell their latest translation. This book is given as an answer to this attack. The purpose of the material is not to convince those who would deny this preservation but to strengthen the faith of those who already believe in a preserved English Bible.
One major question often arises in any attack such as this. How far should we go in answering the critics? If we were to attempt to answer every shallow objection to the infallibility of the English Bible, we would never be able to accomplish anything else. Sanity must prevail somewhere. As always, the answer is in God’s Word. Proverbs 26:4-5 states:
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Obviously, there are times when a foolish query should be ignored and times when it should be met with an answer. If to answer the attack will make you look as foolish as the attacker, then the best answer is to ignore the question. For instance, if you are told that the Bible cannot be infallible because so-and - so believes that it is, and he is divorced, then you may safely assume that silence is the best answer. On the other hand, there are often questions and problems that, if true, would be serious. To ignore these issues would be to leave the Bible attacker wise in his own conceit. I believe that the question of revisions to the King James Version of 1611 is a question of the second class. If the King James Version has undergone four major revisions of its text, then to oppose further revisions on the basis of an established English text would truly be faulty. For this reason, this attack should and must be answered. Can the argument be answered? Certainly! That is the purpose of this book.[HR][/HR]
I. THE PRINTING CONDITIONS OF 1611

If God did preserve His Word in the English language through the Authorized Version of 1611 (and He did), then where is our authority for the infallible wording? Is it in the notes of the translators? Or is it to be found in the proof copy sent to the printers? If so, then our authority is lost because these papers are lost. But, you say, the authority is in the first copy, which came off the printing press. Alas, that copy has also certainly perished. In fact, if the printing of the English Bible followed the pattern of most printing jobs, the first copy was probably discarded because of bad quality. That leaves us with existing copies of the first printing. They are the ones often pointed out as the standard by which all other King James Bibles are to be compared. But are they? Can those early printers of the first edition not be allowed to make printing errors? We need to establish one thing from the out-set. The authority for our preserved English text is not found in any human work. The authority for our preserved and infallible English text is in God! Printers may foul up at times and humans will still make plenty of errors, but God in His power and mercy will preserve His text despite the weaknesses of fallible man. Now, let us look at the pressures on a printer in the year of 1611.
Although the printing press had been invented in 1450 by Johann Gutenburg in Germany (161 years before the 1611 printing), the equipment used by the printer had changed very little. Printing was still very slow and difficult. All type was set by hand, one piece at a time (that’s one piece at a time through the whole Bible), and errors were an expected part of any completed book. Because of this difficulty and also because the 1611 printers had no earlier editions from which to profit, the very first edition the King James Version had a number of printing errors. As shall later be demonstrated, these were not the sort of textual alterations, which are freely made in modern bibles. They were simple, obvious printing errors of the sort that can still be found at times in recent editions even with all of the advantages of useless, but they should be corrected in later editions.
The two original printings of the Authorized Version demonstrate the difficulty of printing in 1611 without making mistakes. Both editions were printed in Oxford. Both were printed in the same year: 1611. The same printers did both jobs. Most likely, both editions were printed on the same printing press. Yet, in a strict comparison of the two editions, approximately 100 textual differences can be found. In the same vein the King James critics can find only about 400 alleged textual alterations in the King James Version after 375 years of printing and four so-called revisions! Something is rotten in Scholarsville! The time has come to examine these "revisions."[HR][/HR]
II THE FOUR SO-CALLED REVISIONS OF 1611 KJV

Much of the information in this section is taken from a book by F.H.A. Scrivener called The Authorized Edition of the English Bible (1611), Its Subsequent Reprints and Modern Representatives. This book is as pedantic as its title indicates. The interesting point is that Scrivener, who published this book in 1884, was a member of the Revision Committee of 1881. He was not a King James Bible believer, and therefore his material is not biased toward the Authorized Version.
In the section of Scrivener’s book dealing with the KJV "revisions," one initial detail is striking. The first two so-called major revisions of the King James Bible occurred within 27 years of the original printing. (The language must have been changing very rapidly in those days.) The 1629 edition of the Bible printed in Cambridge is said to have been the first revision. A revision it was not, but simply a careful correction of earlier printing errors. Not only was this edition completed just eighteen years after the translation, but two of the men who participated in this printing, Dr. Samuel Ward and John Bois, had worked on the original translation of the King James Version. Who better to correct early errors than two that had worked on the original translation! Only nine years later and in Cambridge again, another edition came out which is supposed to have been the second major revision. Both Ward and Bois were still alive, but it is not known of they participated at this time. But even Scrivener, who as you remember worked on the English Revised Version of 1881, admitted that the Cambridge printers had simply reinstated words and clauses overlooked by the 1611 printers and amended manifest errors. According to a study which will be detailed later, 72% of the approximately 400 textual corrections in the KJV were completed by the time of the 1638 Cambridge edition, only 27 years after the original printing!
Just as the first two so-called revisions were actually two stages of one process: the purification of early printing errors, so the last two so-called revisions were two stages in another process: the standardization of the spelling. These two editions were only seven years apart (1762 and 1769) with the second one completing what the first had started. But when the scholars are numbering revisions, two sounds better than one. Very few textual corrections were necessary at this time. The thousands of alleged changes are spelling changes made to match the established correct forms. These spelling changes will be discussed later. Suffice it to say at this time that the tale of four major revisions is truly a fraud and a myth. But you say there are still changes whether they are few or many. What are you going to do with the changes that are still there? Let us now examine the character of these changes.[HR][/HR]
III THE SO-CALLED THOUSANDS OF CHANGES

Suppose someone were to take you to a museum to see an original copy of the King James Version. You come to the glass case where the Bible is displayed and look down at the opened Bible through the glass. Although you are not allowed to flip through its pages, you can readily tell that there are some very different things about this Bible from the one you own. You can hardly read its words, and those you can make out are spelled in odd and strange ways. Like others before you, you leave with the impression that the King James Version has undergone a multitude of changes since its original printing in 1611. But beware, you have just been taken by a very clever ploy. The differences you saw are not what they seem to be. Let’s examine the evidence.[HR][/HR]
PRINTING CHANGES

For proper examination, the changes can be divided into three kinds: printing changes, spelling changes, and textual changes. Printing changes will be considered first. The type style used in 1611 by the KJV translators was the Gothic Type Style. The typestyle you are reading right now and are familiar with is Roman Type. Gothic Type is sometimes called Germanic because it originated in Germany. Remember that that is where printings were invented. The Gothic letters were formed to resemble the hand-drawn manuscript lettering of the Middle ages. At first, it was the only style in use. The Roman Type Style was invented fairly early, but many years passed before it became the predominate style in most European countries. Gothic continued to be used in Germany until recent years. In 1611 in England, Roman Type was already very popular and would soon supersede the Gothic. However, the original printers chose the Gothic Style for the KJV because it was considered to be more beautiful and eloquent than the Roman. But the change to Roman Type was not long in coming. In 1612, the first King James Version using Roman Type was printed. Within a few years, all the Bibles printed used the Roman Type Style.
Please realize that a change in type style no more alters the text of the Bible than a change in format or type size does. However, the modern reader who has not become familiar with Gothic can find it very difficult to understand. Besides some general change in form, several specific letter changes need to be observed. For instance, the Gothic s looks like the Roman s when used as a capital letter or at the end of a word. But when it is used as a lower case s at the beginning or in the middle of a word, the letter looks like our f. Therefore, also becomes alfo and set becomes fet. Another variation is found in the
German v and u. The Gothic v looks like a Roman u while the Gothic u looks like the Roman v. This explains why our w is called a double-u and not a double-v. Sound confusing? It is until you get used to it. In the 1611 edition, love is loue, us is vs, and ever is euer. But remember, these are not even spelling changes. They are simply type style changes. In another instance, the Gothic j looks like our i. So Jesus becomes Iefus (notice the middle s changed to f) and Joy becomes ioy. Even the Gothic d is shaped quite differently from the Roman d with the stem leaning back over the circle in a shape resembling that of the Greek Delta. These changes account for a large percentage of the "thousands" of changes in the KJV, yet they do no harm whatsoever to the text. They are nothing more than a smokescreen set up by the attackers of our English Bible.
[HR][/HR]
SPELLING CHANGES

Another kind of change found in the history of the Authorized Version are changes of orthography or spelling. Most histories date the beginning of Modern English around the 1500. Therefore, by 1611 the grammatical structure and basic vocabulary of present-day English had long been established. However, the spelling did not stabilize at the same time. In the 1600’s spelling was according to whim. There was no such thing as correct spelling. No standards had been established. An author often spelled the same word several different ways, often in the same book and sometimes on the same page. And these were the educated people. Some of you reading this today would have found the 1600’s a spelling paradise. Not until the eighteenth century did the spelling begin to take a stable form. Therefore, in the last half of the eighteenth century, spelling of the King James Version of 1611 was standardized.
What kind of spelling variations can you expect to find between your present edition and the 1611 printing? Although every spelling difference cannot be categorized, several characteristics are very common. Additional e’s were often found at the end of the words such as feare, darke, and beare. Also, double vowels were much more common than they are today. You would find mee, bee, and mooued instead me, be, and moved. Double consonants were also much more common. What would ranne, euill, and ftarres be according to present-day spelling? See if you can figure them out. The present-day spellings would be ran, evil, and stars. These typographical and spelling changes account for almost all of the so-called thousands of changes in the King James Bible. None of them alter the text in any way. Therefore they cannot be honestly compared with thousands of true textual changes which are blatantly made in the modern versions.[HR][/HR]
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#69
Peacefulbeliever. I know the KJV is the only Bible with the pure and perfect reading. I am not giving you my opinion, I am giving you a fact.

This passage in verse 2changes the word IS to HAS. And in verse 3, they remove the phrase: IS COME IN THE FLESH .

The phrase: Is Come In The Flesh is supposed to be in both Verses 2 and 3.


Well why does the NIV leave out the Phrase: Is Come in the flesh in verse 3?

Did you know that phrase is so important that there is a second time that it is mentioned in the Holy Scriptures? It is in 2 John 1:7.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. - 2 John 1:7 (King James Bible)

Okay and what exactly is the truth about Jesus? Do you see how vague the new versions are? It is not as descriptive as the King James Bible.

Again they change the word is to has.

They do the same thing to this passage.

Again, the phrase is not has come in the flesh. The correct phrase is: Is Come In The Flesh.

The right and correct reading is: Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Now they got it right in verse 2, but the American Standard Version left out the phrase: is come in the flesh in verse 3.

The Douay-Rheims Bible also rendered and got verse 2 right. But aren't you able to see how they distorted verse 3? Again they remove the phrase: Is Come In The Flesh in verse 3. They rendered the phrase correctly in verse 2, but why did they leave it out of verse 3?

No, they do not all represent the same thing. I showed you in my response that in verse 2, most of the new versions change the present tense verb IS over to HAS. That is except for the American Standard Version and Douay-Rheims Bible. Yet they remove it from verse 3.

Also I showed you how they all removed the phrase IS COME IN THE FLESH from verse 3. Why did they remove it? Because they have the spirit of antichrist. It is that simple peacefulbeliever.
I also showed you how they all mean the same thing. In almost every translation v2> those that confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh or Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. . .then the logical thing would be that those who do not confess Jesus Christ has/is come in the flesh is not from God. Why does it have to be repeated? It's a little redundant.

If you are happy just using the KJV then Okay. I like comparing a few together.. . .to each his own.
 
Last edited:

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#70
The point you forget ChosebyHim is that
- you do not read the Bible in the language it was written in (Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic).
- you do not read the original King James Version Bible (1611)
- you quote the re-write of the KJV done many years later (1769)

That1769 re-write is different in a number of places as shown at a site by Rick Beckman
Here are the important differences


As you see, the KJV the KJV-only folks use (1789) has altered the text of the original written in 1611.
This is the exact crime which you state makes the NIV satanic!!
The King James Version of 1611

The Myth of Early Revisions
By Pastor David F. Reagan Part 2.
[HR][/HR]

[SIZE=-1]© Copyrighted by David F. Reagan. As long as this notice is included, permission is granted to copy and distribute this material (electronically or in print form) for individual use or for small groups. All other rights (such as use in books, periodicals, on web pages, etc.) are reserved and must be obtained by permission from the author. Contact David Reagan at Antioch Baptist Church, 5709 N. Broadway, Knoxville, TN, 37918 – (865) 688-0780 – Fax (865) 689-1611 – [email protected]
[HR][/HR]
TEXTUAL CHANGES

Almost all of the alleged changes have been accounted for. We now come to the question of actual textual differences between our present edition and that of 1611. There are some differences between the two, but they are not the changes of a revision. They are instead the correction of early printing errors. That this is a fact may be seen in three things: That this is a fact may be seen in three things: 1) the character of the changes, 2) the frequency of the changes throughout the Bible, and 3) the time the changes were made. First, let us look at the character of the changes were made. First, let us look at the character of the changes made from the time of the first printing of the Authorized English Bible.
The changes from the 1611 edition that are admittedly textual are obviously printing errors because of the nature of these changes. They are not textual changes made to alter the reading. In the first printing, words were sometimes inverted. Sometimes a plural was written as singular or visa versa. At times a word was miswritten for one that was similar. A few times a word or even a phrase was omitted. The omissions were obvious and did not have the doctrinal implications of those found in modern translations. In fact, there is really no comparison between the corrections made in the King James text and those proposed by the scholars of today.
F. H. A. Scrivener, in the appendix of his book, lists the variations between the 1611 edition of the KJV and later printings. A sampling of these corrections is given below. In order to be objective, the samples give the first textual correction on consecutive left-hand pages of Scrivener’s book. The 1611 reading is given first; then the present reading: and finally, the date the correction was first made.

  1. this thing - this thing also (1638)
  2. shalt have remained - ye shall have remained (1762)
  3. Achzib, nor Helbath, nor Aphik - of Achzib, nor of Helbath, nor of Aphik (1762)
  4. requite good - requite me good (1629)
  5. this book of the Covenant - the book of this covenant (1629)
  6. chief rulers - chief ruler (1629)
  7. And Parbar - At Parbar (1638)
  8. For this cause - And for this cause (1638)
  9. For the king had appointed - for so the king had appointed (1629)
  10. Seek good - seek God (1617)
  11. The cormorant - But the cormorant (1629)
  12. returned - turned (1769)
  13. a fiery furnace - a burning fiery furnace (1638)
  14. The crowned - Thy crowned (1629)
  15. thy right doeth - thy right hand doeth (1613)
  16. the wayes side - the way side (1743)
  17. which was a Jew - which was a Jewess (1629)
  18. the city - the city of the Damascenes (1629)
  19. now and ever - both now and ever (1638)
  20. which was of our father's - which was our fathers (1616)
Before your eyes are 5% of the textual changes made in the King James Version in 375 years. Even if they were not corrections of previous errors, they would be of no comparison to modern alterations. But they are corrections of printing errors, and therefore no comparison is at all possible. Look at the list for yourself and you will find only one that has serious implications. In fact, in an examination of Scrivener’s entire appendix, it is the only variation found by this author that could be accused of being doctrinal. I am referring to Psalm 69:32 where the 1611 edition has "seek God." Yet, even with this error, two points demonstrate that this was indeed a printing error. First, the similarity of the words "good" and "God" in spelling shows how easily a weary typesetter could misread the proof and put the wrong word in the text. Second, this error was so obvious that it was caught and corrected in the year 1617, only six years after the original printing and well before the first so-called revision. The myth that there are several major revisions to the 1611 KJV should be getting clearer. But there is more.
Not only does the character of the changes show them to be printing errors, so does their frequency. Fundamentalist scholars refer to the thousands of revisions made to the 1611 as if they were on a par with the recent Bible versions. They are not. The overwhelming majority of them are either type style or spelling changes. The few which do remain are clearly corrections of printing errors printing process. The sample list given on THE PREVIOUS PAGE will demonstrate just how careful Scrivener was in listing all the variations. Yet, even with this great care, only approximately 400 variations are named between the 1611 edition and modern copies. Remember that there were 100 variations between the first two Oxford editions which were both printed in 1611.
Since there are almost 1200 chapters in the Bible, the average variation per chapter (after 375 years) is one third, I.E. one correction per every three chapters. These are changes such as "chief ruler" and "And Parbar" to "At Parbar." But there is yet one more evidence that these variations are simply corrected printing errors: the early date at which they were corrected.
The character and frequency of the textual changes clearly separate them from modern alterations. But the time the changes were made settles the issue absolutely. The great majority of the 400 corrections were made within a few years of the original printing. Take, for example, our earlier sampling. Of the twenty corrections listed, one was made in 1613, one in 1616, one in 1617, eight in 1629, five in 1638, one in 1743, two in 1762, and one in 1769. That means that 16 out of 20 corrections, or 80%, were made within twenty-seven years of the 1611 printing. That is hardly the long drawn out series of revisions the scholars would have you to believe. In another study made by examining every other page of Scrivener’s appendix in detail, 72% of the textual corrections were made by 1638. There is no "revision" issue.
The character of the textual changes is that of obvious errors. The frequency of the textual changes is sparse, occurring only once per three chapters. The chronology of the textual changes is early with about three fourths of them occurring within twenty-seven years of the first printing. All of these details establish the fact that there were no true revisions in the sense of updating the language or correcting translation errors. There were only editions which corrected early typographical errors. Our source of authority for the exact wording of the 1611 Authorized Version is not in the existing copies of the first printing. Our source of authority for the exact wording of our English Bible is in the preserving power of Almighty God. Just as God did not leave us the original autographs to fight and squabble over, so He did not see fit to leave us the proof copy of the translation. Our authority is in the hand of God as always. You can praise the Lord for that![HR][/HR]
IV. CHANGES IN THE BOOK OF ECCLESIASTES

An in-depth study of the changes made in the book of Ecclesiastes should help to illustrate the principles stated above. The author is grateful to Dr. Dave Reese of Millbrook, Alabama, for his work in this area. By comparing a 1611 reprint of the original edition put out by Thomas Nelson & Sons with a recent printing of the King James Version, Dr. Reese was able to locate four variations in the book of Ecclesiastes. The reference is given first; then the text of the Thomas Nelson 1611 reprint. This is followed by the reading of the present editions of the 1611 KJV and the date the change was made.

  1. 1:5 the place - his place (1638)
  2. 2:16 shall be - shall all be (1629)
  3. 8:17 out, yea further - out, yet he shall not find it; yea farther (1629)
  4. 11: 17 thing is it - thing it is (?)
Several things should be noted about these changes. The last variation ("thing is it" to "thing it is") is not mentioned by Scrivener who was a very careful and accurate scholar. Therefore, this change may be a misprint in the Thomas Nelson reprint. That would be interesting. The corrected omission in chapter eight is one of the longest corrections of the original printing. But notice that it was corrected in 1629. The frequency of printing errors is average (four errors in twelve chapters). But the most outstanding fact is that the entire book of Ecclesiastes reads exactly like our present editions without even printing errors by the year 1638. That’s approximately 350 years ago. By that time, the Bible was being printed in Roman type. Therefore, all (and I mean all) that has changed in 350 years in the book of Ecclesiastes is that the spelling has been standardized! As stated before, the main purpose of the 1629 and 1638 Cambridge editions was the correction of earlier printing errors. And the main purpose of the 1762 and 1769 editions was the standardization of spelling.

[/SIZE]
 
Jan 10, 2013
318
4
0
#71
You Pastor makes a big thing about the rights to the NLT.
While I don't like rights, I must point out that the rights to the KJV in the UK (i.e. where it was written) still reside with the Crown (i.e. the Monarchy/State) and administered by the Crown’s patentee, Cambridge University Press.

Just because there is no international copyright doesn't mean that the KJV is exempt - even though at over 90 years old it should be no longer copyrighted.

In addition, it seems odd that he attacks a group of scholars for being paid for their work. Yet he clearly is eating well on the cash he gets for the 'work' he does.

He claims the NIV is trying to be the KJV. What a nutcase.
Both a trying to be an English version of the original texts.

Some people prefer NIV.
Some people prefer KJV.
And some sad people worship the KJV as if God's finger wrote it in English and not 78 Church of England monks.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#72
The point you forget ChosebyHim is that
- you do not read the Bible in the language it was written in (Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic).
- you do not read the original King James Version Bible (1611)
- you quote the re-write of the KJV done many years later (1769)

That1769 re-write is different in a number of places as shown at a site by
Rick Beckman
Here are the important differences


As you see, the KJV the KJV-only folks use (1789) has altered the text of the original written in 1611.
This is the exact crime which you state makes the NIV satanic!!


The King James Version of 1611

The Myth of Early Revisions

By Pastor David F. Reagan[HR][/HR]
Part 3.




[SIZE=-1]© Copyrighted by David F. Reagan. As long as this notice is included, permission is granted to copy and distribute this material (electronically or in print form) for individual use or for small groups. All other rights (such as use in books, periodicals, on web pages, etc.) are reserved and must be obtained by permission from the author. Contact David Reagan at Antioch Baptist Church, 5709 N. Broadway, Knoxville, TN, 37918 – (865) 688-0780 – Fax (865) 689-1611 – [email protected] [/SIZE]
[HR][/HR]V. THE SO-CALLED JUSTIFICATION FOR OTHER REVISIONS

Maybe now you see that the King James Version of 1611 has not been revised but only corrected. But why does it make that much difference? Although there are several reasons why this issue is important, the most pressing one is that fundamentalist scholars are using this myth of past revisions to justify their own tampering with the text. The editors of the New King James Version have probably been the worst in recent years to use this propaganda ploy. In the preface of the New King James they have stated, "For nearly four hundred years, and throughout several revisions of its English form, the King James Bible has been deeply revered among the English-speaking peoples of the world." In the midst of their flowery rhetoric, they strongly imply that their edition is only a continuation of the revisions that have been going on for the past 375 years. This implication, which has been stated directly by others, could not be more false. To prove this point, we will go back to the book of Ecclesiastes.
An examination of the first chapter in Ecclesiastes in the New King James Version reveals approximately 50 changes from our present edition. In order to be fair, spelling changes (cometh to comes; labour to labor; etc.) were not included in this count. That means there are probably about 600 alterations in the book of Ecclesiastes and approximately 60, 000 changes in the entire Bible. If you accuse me of including every recognizable change, you are correct. But I am only counting the sort of changes which were identified in analyzing the 1611 King James. That’s only fair. Still, the number of changes is especially baffling for a version which claims to be an updating in the same vein as earlier revisions. According to the fundamentalist scholar, the New King James is only a fifth in a series of revisions. Then pray tell me how "four "revisions" and 375 years brought only 400 changes while the fifth revision brought about 60,000 additional changes? That means that the fifth revision made 150 times more changes than the total number of changes in the first four! That’s preposterous!
Not only is the frequency of the changes unbelievable, but the character of the alterations are serious. Although many of the alterations seem harmless enough at first glance, many are much more serious. The editors of the New King James Version were sly enough not to alter the most serious blunders of the modern bibles. Yet, they were not afraid to change the reading in those places that are unfamiliar to the average fundamentalist. In these areas, the New King James Version is dangerous. Below are some of the more harmful alterations made in the book of Ecclesiastes. The reference is given first; then the reading as found in the King James Version: and last, the reading as found in the New King James Version.

  • 1:13 sore travail; grievous task
  • 1:14 vexation of spirit; grasping for the wind
  • 1:16 my heart had great experience of wisdom; My heart has understood great wisdom
  • 2:3 to give myself unto; to gratify my flesh with
  • 2:3 acquainting; guiding
  • 2:21 equity; skill
  • 3:10 the travail, which God hath given; the God-given task
  • 3:11 the world; eternity
  • 3:18 that God might manifest them; God tests them
  • 3:18 they themselves are beasts; they themselves are like beasts
  • 3:22 portion; heritage
  • 4:4 right work; skillful work
  • 5:1 Keep thy foot; Walk prudently
  • 5:6 the angel; the messenger of God
  • 5:6 thy voice; your excuse
  • 5:8 he that is higher than the highest; high official
  • 5:20 God answereth him; God keeps him busy
  • 6:3 untimely birth; stillborn child
  • 7:29 inventions; schemes
  • 8:1 boldness; sterness
  • 8:10 the place of the holy; the place of holiness
  • 10:1 Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour; Dead flies putrefy the perfumer's ointment
  • 10:10 If the iron be blunt; If the ax is dull
  • 10:10 wisdom is profitable to direct; wisdom brings success
  • 12:9 gave good heed; pondered
  • 12:11 the masters of assemblies; scholars
This is only a sampling of the changes in the book, but notice what is done. Equity, which is a trait of godliness, becomes skill (2:21). The world becomes eternity (3:11) Man without God is no longer a beast but just like a beast (3:18). The clear reference to deity in Ecclesiastes 5:8 ("he that is higher than the highest") is successfully removed ("higher official"). But since success is what wisdom is supposed to bring us (10:10), this must be progress. At least God is keeping the scholars busy (5:20). Probably the most revealing of the above mentioned changes is the last one listed where "the masters of assemblies" become "scholars." According to the New King James, "the words of scholars are like well-driven nails, given by one Shepherd." The masters of assemblies are replaced by the scholars who become the source of the Shepherd’s words. That is what these scholars would like us to think, but it is not true.
In conclusion, the New King James is not a revision in the vein of former revisions of the King James Version. It is instead an entirely new translation. As stated in the introduction, the purpose of this book is not to convince those who use the other versions. The purpose of this book is to expose a fallacious argument that has been circulating in fundamentalist circles for what it is: an overblown myth. That is, the myth that the New King James Version and others like it are nothing more than continuation of revisions which have periodically been made to the King James Version since 1611. There is one problem with this theory. There are no such revisions.
The King James Bible of 1611 has not undergone four (or any) major revisions. Therefore, the New King James Version is not a continuation of what has gone on before. It should in fact be called the Thomas Nelson Version. They hold the copyright. The King James Version we have today has not been revised but purified. We still have no reason to doubt that the Bible we hold in our hands is the very word of God preserved for us in the English language. The authority for its veracity lies not in the first printing of the King James Version in 1611, or in the character of King James I, or in the scholarship of the 1611 translators, or in the literary accomplishments of Elizabethan England, or even in the Greek Received Text. Our authority for the infallible words of the English Bible lies in the power and promise of God to preserve His Word! God has the power. We have His Word.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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You Pastor makes a big thing about the rights to the NLT.
While I don't like rights, I must point out that the rights to the KJV in the UK (i.e. where it was written) still reside with the Crown (i.e. the Monarchy/State) and administered by the Crown’s patentee, Cambridge University Press.

Just because there is no international copyright doesn't mean that the KJV is exempt - even though at over 90 years old it should be no longer copyrighted.

In addition, it seems odd that he attacks a group of scholars for being paid for their work. Yet he clearly is eating well on the cash he gets for the 'work' he does.

He claims the NIV is trying to be the KJV. What a nutcase.
Both a trying to be an English version of the original texts.

Some people prefer NIV.
Some people prefer KJV.
And some sad people worship the KJV as if God's finger wrote it in English and not 78 Church of England monks.
And that under the supervision of King James!
 
Jan 10, 2013
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Your reply ChosenbyHim (your Reagan quote) does not address the verses quoted.

In those verse the meaning is changed.

Could YOU (not some Pastor) say why the change of meaning is fine of it's in the KJV, but not in other versions?
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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#75
I also showed you how they all mean the same thing. In almost every translation v2> those that confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh or Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. . .then the logical thing would be that those who do not confess Jesus Christ has/is come in the flesh is not from God. Why does it have to be repeated? It's a little redundant.

If you are happy just using the KJV then Okay. I like comparing a few together.. . .to each his own.
[HR][/HR]As Pastor Anderson pointed out, One is past tense while the correct phrase is present tense peacefulbeliever. Not even one word is to be altered in the text. And I also show you that in verse 3, they all remove the important phrase: IS COME IN THE FLESH. I use the KJV because it is God's perfect and inerrant word. If you want to use the modern translations, then fine. That is your choice. But I have showed you some of the evidence. You cannot overlook the fact that the modern versions attack the deity of Jesus Christ, the doctrine of Salvation by grace through faith alone, the blood atonement in Colossians 1:14. Now I gave you a video to watch. Are you going to watch it? Are you going to take the time and do your due diligence with studying this issue? Or are you going to be like most modern professing Christians who won't even take 5 minutes to watch a video sermon that presents clear evidence and facts that cannot be disputed. They would rather be willingly ignorant. I have studied this issue for a little while now. And it is clear that the new versions are not of God. The modern versions are satanic. Which explains why they produce such rotten fruit.

 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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#76
Your reply ChosenbyHim (your Reagan quote) does not address the verses quoted.

In those verse the meaning is changed.

Could YOU (not some Pastor) say why the change of meaning is fine of it's in the KJV, but not in other versions?
[HR][/HR]

1 Corinthians 12:28 – “helpes in gouernmets” vs. “helps, governments”
Joshua 3:11 – “Arke of the Couenant, euen the Lord” vs. “ark of the covenant of the Lord”
2 Kings 11:10 – “in the Temple” vs. “in the temple of the LORD”
Isaiah 49:13 – “for God” vs. “for the LORD”
Jeremiah 31:14 – “with goodnesse” vs. “with my goodness”
Jeremiah 51:30 – “burnt their dwelling places” vs. “burned her dwellingplaces”
Ezekiel 6:8 – “that he may” vs. “that ye may”
Ezekiel 24:5 – “let him seethe” vs. “let them seethe”
Ezekiel 24:7 – “powred it vpon the ground” vs. “poured it not upon the ground”
Ezekiel 48:8 – “which they shall” vs. “which ye shall”
Daniel 3:15 – “a fierie furnace” vs. “a burning fiery furnace”
Matthew 14:9 – “the othes sake” vs. “the oath’s sake”
1 Corinthians 15:6 – “And that” vs. “After that”
1 John 5:12 – “the Sonne, hath” vs. “the Son of God hath” [HR][/HR] Which spelling changes actually change the meaning? Pick out one or two of the examples given. And then I can specifically answer and address your concern. As of right now I don't see any significant changes in meaning from the list of examples given. And do I need to remind you that the English Language was a bit different back in 1611?

 
Feb 21, 2012
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#77
[HR][/HR]As Pastor Anderson pointed out, One is past tense while the correct phrase is present tense peacefulbeliever. Not even one word is to be altered in the text. And I also show you that in verse 3, they all remove the important phrase: IS COME IN THE FLESH. I use the KJV because it is God's perfect and inerrant word. If you want to use the modern translations, then fine. That is your choice. But I have showed you some of the evidence. You cannot overlook the fact that the modern versions attack the deity of Jesus Christ, the doctrine of Salvation by grace through faith alone, the blood atonement in Colossians 1:14. Now I gave you a video to watch. Are you going to watch it? Are you going to take the time and do your due diligence with studying this issue? Or are you going to be like most modern professing Christians who won't even take 5 minutes to watch a video sermon that presents clear evidence and facts that cannot be disputed. They would rather be willingly ignorant. I have studied this issue for a little while now. And it is clear that the new versions are not of God. The modern versions are satanic. Which explains why they produce such rotten fruit.
No, I won't watch the video. I very rarely watch any videos posted on a thread. But I really don't think I want to listen to someone tear down other translations that, if taken in context with the KJV, basically mean the same thing.

lol. . .I don't believe that I am producing rotten fruit because of the Bible I read.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#78
Is come in the flesh is an idiomatic phrase, I believe, and it is considered the past tense.
 
Jan 10, 2013
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#79
Joshua 3:11 – “Arke of the Couenant, euen the Lord” vs. “ark of the covenant of the Lord”
changes the meaning
1 Corinthians 12:28 – “helpes in gouernmets” vs. “helps, governments”
changes the meaning
Jeremiah 31:14 – “with goodnesse” vs. “with my goodness”
changes the meaning
Ezekiel 24:7 – “powred it vpon the ground” vs. “poured it not upon the ground”
changes the meaning
Jeremiah 31:14 – “with goodnesse” vs. “with my goodness”
changes the meaning

Some of the others I would suggest do not alter things in meaning.
However, they are alterations of what you proclaim is the Word of God.
Is the KJV the word of God when it says "she" instead of "they"? So which version is the Word of God? The original or the one that 'corrects errors'?

You refuse to apply the exact same rules to the different KJV versions that you insist must be in other versions.
In addition you point out differences and attack the other translation because it might differ from your doctrine (in your mind at least).
If your doctrine is derived from Scripture then the right doctrine must come from the right translation.
Perhaps the KJV is not the right translation.
You assume it is, and attack differences.
Perhaps the NIV is the correct translation in which case the differences in the KJV show it to be in error.

You assume your version correct with no reason to do so and launch attacks against all who are different.
That is an argument from tradition and is false as it has no foundation.


btw - I'm no fan of the NIV but I use it as an example.


[HR][/HR]

1 Corinthians 12:28 – “helpes in gouernmets” vs. “helps, governments”
Joshua 3:11 – “Arke of the Couenant, euen the Lord” vs. “ark of the covenant of the Lord”
2 Kings 11:10 – “in the Temple” vs. “in the temple of the LORD”
Isaiah 49:13 – “for God” vs. “for the LORD”
Jeremiah 31:14 – “with goodnesse” vs. “with my goodness”
Jeremiah 51:30 – “burnt their dwelling places” vs. “burned her dwellingplaces”
Ezekiel 6:8 – “that he may” vs. “that ye may”
Ezekiel 24:5 – “let him seethe” vs. “let them seethe”
Ezekiel 24:7 – “powred it vpon the ground” vs. “poured it not upon the ground”
Ezekiel 48:8 – “which they shall” vs. “which ye shall”
Daniel 3:15 – “a fierie furnace” vs. “a burning fiery furnace”
Matthew 14:9 – “the othes sake” vs. “the oath’s sake”
1 Corinthians 15:6 – “And that” vs. “After that”
1 John 5:12 – “the Sonne, hath” vs. “the Son of God hath” [HR][/HR] Which spelling changes actually change the meaning? Pick out one or two of the examples given. And then I can specifically answer and address your concern. As of right now I don't see any significant changes in meaning from the list of examples given. And do I need to remind you that the English Language was a bit different back in 1611?

 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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#80


The people who do not speak English have bible translations in foreign languages which they can read. There are reliable foreign translations out there like the Reina Valera 1909, and the French Louis Segond Bible, as well as Martin Luther's German Bible just to name a few. And as long as a foreign translation is translated from the King James Text, then it is fine.
[HR][/HR]However if the foreign translation they are reading is translated from the NIV, then what they now have is a corrupt foreign translation. If you use the NIV, what will basically happen is that that NIV will produce rotten fruit in your life. If you want to grow and mature spiritually, you are going to have to get a King James Bible and read it and believe it. Also, if you weren't aware that nearly all English translations produced sine 1881 are yoked up to the Roman Catholic church. Don't think so? Go buy a catholic bible and compare the missing verses in it with the NIV, they match exactly.


What part of "there are no missing verses in the NIV, they are listed in the notes" do you not understand?

Surely it would be better to translate from the original Greek and Hebrew into another language, not a translation of a translation, that is how mistake do creep in.

To claim bad fruit comes from using NIV is utterly ridiculous and pathetic unfounded claim to make.