USURPING AUTHORITY
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A
i think men who have female pastrixes are disobeying scripture, clearly.
people who sit under a female pastor in the pulpit preaching and teaching are in rebellion. that's clear.
but the Pentecostal Movement started with women.
i also think charismatics speaking in tongues is pagan gibbering, and people who claim to be prophets speaking for God are lying.
both of which are extremely serious offenses against God.
was there something wrong in saying so?
what exactly?
people who sit under a female pastor in the pulpit preaching and teaching are in rebellion. that's clear.
but the Pentecostal Movement started with women.
i also think charismatics speaking in tongues is pagan gibbering, and people who claim to be prophets speaking for God are lying.
both of which are extremely serious offenses against God.
was there something wrong in saying so?
what exactly?
Does He ignore their prayers? Does The Holyspirit leave them?
Does He abandon the church that does this?
G
Interpreted for my housebuddy, abiding, (ooooh, that didn't sound so swell ) :
If you are going to maintain that women are not to be 'teachers' of men in ANY capacity, not just inside the church, then, you will have to maintain that women teaching us things on c.c. is directly against God's will. Right, ohzone?
LOL , too, is the church a bulding??
Hey, FACT, wake up ! This website, for a lot of folks, may be the ONLY church that they ever see.
I definitely see this site as a church, that is a vessel that God uses for christians to reach those who are wanting to know Him.
Oooh, green, now you're getting in deep....................
That's ok, the Lord leads my life, He gives me authority to really go for the juggler, sometimes, GULP!, I hope and pray
) : If you are going to maintain that women are not to be 'teachers' of men in ANY capacity, not just inside the church, then, you will have to maintain that women teaching us things on c.c. is directly against God's will. Right, ohzone?
LOL , too, is the church a bulding??
Hey, FACT, wake up ! This website, for a lot of folks, may be the ONLY church that they ever see.
I definitely see this site as a church, that is a vessel that God uses for christians to reach those who are wanting to know Him.
Oooh, green, now you're getting in deep....................
That's ok, the Lord leads my life, He gives me authority to really go for the juggler, sometimes, GULP!, I hope and pray
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1 Timothy 1 is about false teachers
1 Timothy 2 is about worship and prayer services.
1 Timothy 3 is about church order - bishops and deacons.
etc.
all instructions to Timothy about overseeing the church.
if the internet (any given forum) is "the church" - are all the people one in the faith?
is everyone who says they believe in a jesus of the faith?
is that the church?
what did the Apostles say?
this is the internet. not the church.
1 Timothy 2 is about worship and prayer services.
1 Timothy 3 is about church order - bishops and deacons.
etc.
all instructions to Timothy about overseeing the church.
if the internet (any given forum) is "the church" - are all the people one in the faith?
is everyone who says they believe in a jesus of the faith?
is that the church?
what did the Apostles say?
this is the internet. not the church.
Interpreted for my housebuddy, abiding, (ooooh, that didn't sound so swell ) :
If you are going to maintain that women are not to be 'teachers' of men in ANY capacity, not just inside the church, then, you will have to maintain that women teaching us things on c.c. is directly against God's will. Right, ohzone?
) : If you are going to maintain that women are not to be 'teachers' of men in ANY capacity, not just inside the church, then, you will have to maintain that women teaching us things on c.c. is directly against God's will. Right, ohzone?
are you asking me something or abiding?
i think men who have female pastrixes are disobeying scripture, clearly.
people who sit under a female pastor in the pulpit preaching and teaching are in rebellion. that's clear.
but the Pentecostal Movement started with women.
i also think charismatics speaking in tongues is pagan gibbering, and people who claim to be prophets speaking for God are lying.
both of which are extremely serious offenses against God.
was there something wrong in saying so?
what exactly?
people who sit under a female pastor in the pulpit preaching and teaching are in rebellion. that's clear.
but the Pentecostal Movement started with women.
i also think charismatics speaking in tongues is pagan gibbering, and people who claim to be prophets speaking for God are lying.
both of which are extremely serious offenses against God.
was there something wrong in saying so?
what exactly?
When God says speaking in tongues is a gift, with your kind of thinking, it is pagan gibbering. Your thinking means only judgmental thinking, get an idea and because there is good in your idea you must not allow any other possibilities. I have heard people speaking in tongues and it was clearly not of God. In your mind that would mean ALL speaking in tongues is not of God. That is a distortion of a God truth.
I am a poster who is currently studying OT. In your mind that means that I am opposed to what Paul says. That makes anything I say bad in your eyes. What you report and see is not the truth. Paul was not opposed to the OT, and if understanding of the OT is not in agreement with Paul then the understanding is wrong. They agree. Both are scripture.
Most of your postings are not giving any ideas of God, but only riduculing others. That is not biblical or right.
G
Times have changed, God hasnt, of course, but times have changed, there is a whole lot of church going on the internet these days. Bible studies, etc. and, women lead them sometimes.
What is the ECLA the only real church?
Yes, we on here all have the same faith? God gave us a measure of faith? It's not the same capacity but it is the SAME faith. To you, ohzone
What is the ECLA the only real church?
Yes, we on here all have the same faith? God gave us a measure of faith? It's not the same capacity but it is the SAME faith. To you, ohzone
A
Interpreted for my housebuddy, abiding, (ooooh, that didn't sound so swell ) :
If you are going to maintain that women are not to be 'teachers' of men in ANY capacity, not just inside the church, then, you will have to maintain that women teaching us things on c.c. is directly against God's will. Right, ohzone?
LOL , too, is the church a bulding??
Hey, FACT, wake up ! This website, for a lot of folks, may be the ONLY church that they ever see.
I definitely see this site as a church, that is a vessel that God uses for christians to reach those who are wanting to know Him.
Oooh, green, now you're getting in deep....................
That's ok, the Lord leads my life, He gives me authority to really go for the juggler, sometimes, GULP!, I hope and pray
) : If you are going to maintain that women are not to be 'teachers' of men in ANY capacity, not just inside the church, then, you will have to maintain that women teaching us things on c.c. is directly against God's will. Right, ohzone?
LOL , too, is the church a bulding??
Hey, FACT, wake up ! This website, for a lot of folks, may be the ONLY church that they ever see.
I definitely see this site as a church, that is a vessel that God uses for christians to reach those who are wanting to know Him.
Oooh, green, now you're getting in deep....................
That's ok, the Lord leads my life, He gives me authority to really go for the juggler, sometimes, GULP!, I hope and pray
I take the position they are not to be Overseers of a church/head pastor/deacon
I take the position the bible teaches about wifes. But never took a position
in these thread past that. So where is my inconsistancy that you think you see?
All I am seeing is opinions and conjecture in this thread. You have this twisted beliefs you have been taught about women, and you keep on parroting your erroneous beliefs.
Please, let us talk Biblical original languages, scholarly research. See the other post. I am not afraid to teach, because I have studied the Greek, read both sides of this issue, in books and research, and concluded that the complementarian view, which subjugates woman and makes them second class Christians is a non valid point of view. Christians are set free. Christ is the only "authority" in the church.
Let's see some scholarship here!
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slavenor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28.
That is God's truth, not all this misinterpreted, culturally irrelevant nonsense. (Meaning that in order to have good hermeneutics, you MUST look at the culture and context and to whom the book was written!) And properly translate the Greek!
Sadly, none of the people twisting scripture here seem to have any training or background in actually dividing the Word rightly!
Please, let us talk Biblical original languages, scholarly research. See the other post. I am not afraid to teach, because I have studied the Greek, read both sides of this issue, in books and research, and concluded that the complementarian view, which subjugates woman and makes them second class Christians is a non valid point of view. Christians are set free. Christ is the only "authority" in the church.
Let's see some scholarship here!
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slavenor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28.
That is God's truth, not all this misinterpreted, culturally irrelevant nonsense. (Meaning that in order to have good hermeneutics, you MUST look at the culture and context and to whom the book was written!) And properly translate the Greek!
Sadly, none of the people twisting scripture here seem to have any training or background in actually dividing the Word rightly!
G
no inconsistency, housebuddy, just thinking of your posting all the delectable treats on here.
I wanted a person who was having their cake and eating it too
It's just not fair to think that women cannot teach men from the pulpit, it puts God in a box when He wants 'them' on a pulpit Scripture is clear too: Nowhere does it say 'women are not to be preachers over men.'
I do another thread, examining the word, 'authority,' what does it really mean?
I agree with stevestephan, I think that MANY merely interpret the word 'authority' and that women are not having authority or teaching authority over a man when they are preaching to them.
What are they doing, green?
I dunno (ok, I do know, they are preaching the Word that God's put on their heart from His Word). But they are not TEACHING or PREACHING with ANY authority over the churchgoers, none, only God has authority over us, He alone is sovereign, and, within that house of sovereignty is His freewill shadowing of man's life.
IF He calls a woman to be a pastor and she is to go to a bi-gender church, I do not see how she being a pastor is having authority over a man, maybe, it's having authority over a man not submitting to Christ, but certainly, the man of God will know who He submits too, it is NOT his pastor, ever. The Lord's words will be His understanding. Hard to understand all this, I know, I know, it will come though, but only through faith in what's seen having happened in your life as you go rob-robbin, a-bobbin along following Him, as this birdie sees it, anyway.
There is no swallowing up of authority in a church by a woman called to pastor a church. There is NO teaching of authority either by woman pastor, she is teaching of Christ, who IS the authority. She by no means has any authority or power whatsoever to send a man to Hell. She can preach fire and brimstone but she has NO authority to send a man to Lake of Fire. None.
I wanted a person who was having their cake and eating it too
It's just not fair to think that women cannot teach men from the pulpit, it puts God in a box when He wants 'them' on a pulpit
Scripture is clear too: Nowhere does it say 'women are not to be preachers over men.'I do another thread, examining the word, 'authority,' what does it really mean?
I agree with stevestephan, I think that MANY merely interpret the word 'authority' and that women are not having authority or teaching authority over a man when they are preaching to them.
What are they doing, green?
I dunno (ok, I do know, they are preaching the Word that God's put on their heart from His Word). But they are not TEACHING or PREACHING with ANY authority over the churchgoers, none, only God has authority over us, He alone is sovereign, and, within that house of sovereignty is His freewill shadowing of man's life.
IF He calls a woman to be a pastor and she is to go to a bi-gender church, I do not see how she being a pastor is having authority over a man, maybe, it's having authority over a man not submitting to Christ, but certainly, the man of God will know who He submits too, it is NOT his pastor, ever. The Lord's words will be His understanding. Hard to understand all this, I know, I know, it will come though, but only through faith in what's seen having happened in your life as you go rob-robbin, a-bobbin along following Him, as this birdie sees it, anyway.
There is no swallowing up of authority in a church by a woman called to pastor a church. There is NO teaching of authority either by woman pastor, she is teaching of Christ, who IS the authority. She by no means has any authority or power whatsoever to send a man to Hell. She can preach fire and brimstone but she has NO authority to send a man to Lake of Fire. None.
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Still waiting for some intelligent Biblical discussion of this issue of women teaching men. Not quoting KJV of the Bible, but actually talking about women who were deacons and apostles, and the conditions in Ephesus at the time Paul wrote to Timothy.
I guess some men just like to be in "authority" and usurp the power of Jesus, who is the ONLY head of the church. And the poor women who think they have to be silent and never correct men who are totally wrong. No wonder the church in the west is in such disarray.
Did you read anything I said, Abiding?? Or do you just ignore women who have training in Biblical interpretation and translating, because it might conflict with your ability to be in control??
I guess some men just like to be in "authority" and usurp the power of Jesus, who is the ONLY head of the church. And the poor women who think they have to be silent and never correct men who are totally wrong. No wonder the church in the west is in such disarray.
Did you read anything I said, Abiding?? Or do you just ignore women who have training in Biblical interpretation and translating, because it might conflict with your ability to be in control??
huh?
examples?
Paul clearly said overseerers of THE CHURCH are men...husbands of one wife.
women not speaking in church. it's plain.
thisis the internet. there are all beliefs here.
this is not the church the The Lord and the Apostles founded.
it is a cyber forum with people from all walks of life talking.
some christians and many non.
its not a church.
i do not attend the chat room, where Bible studies take place.
i assume men teach them. i don't know, i don't attend.
i attend my own church, because i agree with the doctrine.
there are many churches i would not attend, because i do not agree with the doctrine.
redtent, this is really easy.
i have never ever said the gifts of languages we read of in the Bible was gibbering.
not one time have i ever said that. ever.
okay?
i said the current thing is gibbering, and has nothing to do with the gift of languages in the Bible.
okay? thank you for understanding.
what do you want me "to allow"?
it says languages in which we were born.
known human languages.
why would anyone "allow" for something other than what it was?
is that what we are called to do?
but....posting over and over and over what scripture actually says and means to you is being "judgmental".
i'm okay with that, if that helps you.
if you say so.
this is clearly bring-out-your-grievance time.
your remark is utter nonsense.
oh now....isn't that judgmental of you?
if you could please find me saying at any time, anywhere that i believe paul was opposed to or contradicted the OT, this is the time to do so.
please prodcue the posts where i say that or anything like it.
you're entitled to your beliefs.
i'm entitled to mine.
i won't go into what i object to in your doctrine on this thread.
thanks then.
examples?
Paul clearly said overseerers of THE CHURCH are men...husbands of one wife.
women not speaking in church. it's plain.
thisis the internet. there are all beliefs here.
this is not the church the The Lord and the Apostles founded.
it is a cyber forum with people from all walks of life talking.
some christians and many non.
its not a church.
i do not attend the chat room, where Bible studies take place.
i assume men teach them. i don't know, i don't attend.
i attend my own church, because i agree with the doctrine.
there are many churches i would not attend, because i do not agree with the doctrine.
redtent, this is really easy.
i have never ever said the gifts of languages we read of in the Bible was gibbering.
not one time have i ever said that. ever.
okay?
i said the current thing is gibbering, and has nothing to do with the gift of languages in the Bible.
okay? thank you for understanding.
what do you want me "to allow"?
it says languages in which we were born.
known human languages.
why would anyone "allow" for something other than what it was?
is that what we are called to do?
but....posting over and over and over what scripture actually says and means to you is being "judgmental".
i'm okay with that, if that helps you.
if you say so.
this is clearly bring-out-your-grievance time.
your remark is utter nonsense.
oh now....isn't that judgmental of you?
if you could please find me saying at any time, anywhere that i believe paul was opposed to or contradicted the OT, this is the time to do so.
please prodcue the posts where i say that or anything like it.
you're entitled to your beliefs.
i'm entitled to mine.
i won't go into what i object to in your doctrine on this thread.
thanks then.
A
no inconsistency, housebuddy, just thinking of your posting all the delectable treats on here.
I wanted a person who was having their cake and eating it too
It's just not fair to think that women cannot teach men from the pulpit, it puts God in a box when He wants 'them' on a pulpit Scripture is clear too: Nowhere does it say 'women are not to be preachers over men.'
I do another thread, examining the word, 'authority,' what does it really mean?
I agree with stevestephan, I think that MANY merely interpret the word 'authority' and that women are not having authority or teaching authority over a man when they are preaching to them.
What are they doing, green?
I dunno (ok, I do know, they are preaching the Word that God's put on their heart from His Word). But they are not TEACHING or PREACHING with ANY authority over the churchgoers, none, only God has authority over us, He alone is sovereign, and, within that house of sovereignty is His freewill shadowing of man's life.
IF He calls a woman to be a pastor and she is to go to a bi-gender church, I do not see how she being a pastor is having authority over a man, maybe, it's having authority over a man not submitting to Christ, but certainly, the man of God will know who He submits too, it is NOT his pastor, ever. The Lord's words will be His understanding. Hard to understand all this, I know, I know, it will come though, but only through faith in what's seen having happened in your life as you go rob-robbin, a-bobbin along following Him, as this birdie sees it, anyway.
There is no swallowing up of authority in a church by a woman called to pastor a church. There is NO teaching of authority either by woman pastor, she is teaching of Christ, who IS the authority. She by no means has any authority or power whatsoever to send a man to Hell. She can preach fire and brimstone but she has NO authority to send a man to Lake of Fire. None.
I wanted a person who was having their cake and eating it too
It's just not fair to think that women cannot teach men from the pulpit, it puts God in a box when He wants 'them' on a pulpit
Scripture is clear too: Nowhere does it say 'women are not to be preachers over men.'I do another thread, examining the word, 'authority,' what does it really mean?
I agree with stevestephan, I think that MANY merely interpret the word 'authority' and that women are not having authority or teaching authority over a man when they are preaching to them.
What are they doing, green?
I dunno (ok, I do know, they are preaching the Word that God's put on their heart from His Word). But they are not TEACHING or PREACHING with ANY authority over the churchgoers, none, only God has authority over us, He alone is sovereign, and, within that house of sovereignty is His freewill shadowing of man's life.
IF He calls a woman to be a pastor and she is to go to a bi-gender church, I do not see how she being a pastor is having authority over a man, maybe, it's having authority over a man not submitting to Christ, but certainly, the man of God will know who He submits too, it is NOT his pastor, ever. The Lord's words will be His understanding. Hard to understand all this, I know, I know, it will come though, but only through faith in what's seen having happened in your life as you go rob-robbin, a-bobbin along following Him, as this birdie sees it, anyway.
There is no swallowing up of authority in a church by a woman called to pastor a church. There is NO teaching of authority either by woman pastor, she is teaching of Christ, who IS the authority. She by no means has any authority or power whatsoever to send a man to Hell. She can preach fire and brimstone but she has NO authority to send a man to Lake of Fire. None.
many times...i simply asked you what you meant by me having my
cake and eating it too? Your really not that easy to understand green
its like you speak in riddles.
How does woman not being the overseer of a body have anything to
do with them teaching? Where the contradiction?
G
Does a woman pastor have authority over your life when she preaches to you?
Who convicts you to choose Christ? The altar you go to and pray over?
Or, the Spirit whom comes to SEE you at the altar to show you that your life can be more, different, His?
Who convicts the Christian they are going in the wrong direction? The pastor?
Does a pastor put a feeling and film and sheathe of guilt on the person in their church confessing to wrongs? No.
Again , the Spirit , and, He doesn't even convict, in a guilty feeling sense , He convicts in a loving sense, rebuking, chastening, scourging, but done in love
Can you see where authority comes from? Not from any 'man,' or, 'women,' but from Christ, who is the 'head of the church, Scripture tells us.
And, those who are in Christ Jesus are NEVER under condemnation because the pastor tells you so ?? No, because Christ tells us, through Paul in Rom. 8:1.
Again, a pastor, man or women, has NO authority over you, NONE ! They cannot condemn you to lake of fire, you are His and He won't let a pastor do that, who WOULD be speaking through Satan IF they did judge you in that way.
I am being careful here, but a pastor can say "If you do not believe in Christ Jesus, you are condemning yourself," and this is in Scripture.
But, those fire and brimstone preachers that preach "you are going to hell if you accept Christ" are NOT doing their calling as He called them, doing MUCH more damage than good ! They are judging, too . God alone is our judge for where we are in life, and, will judge us at the end of our life after it ends, that is Scripture too.
Why? Why do you disagree with a women teaching you in church? Is it just Scripture telling you that (you think), or, is it just a feeling that doesn't sit right with you?
The Lord leads our lives, you are to follow Him, Jess, so, if it's the latter reason for not wanting to learn from a woman pastor, then, God is just telling you to find a different church, perhaps. Pray to Him before making that choice you are about to make.
There is no cultism of men only preaching in Christ Jesus, men and women are the same , both following after Christ, both learning from each other of Christ. Men have A LOT they can learn from women, preaching/teaching included. Maybe, not as a full-time pastor (or maybe), but, certainly, guest pastors could be a woman sharing her experiences to a congregation.
Those who do not believe women can teach them are the ones that say 'All I need to know is in Scripture, I don't need them speaking to me."
This is a case by case situation but it is that way a lot of times. It is an example of no faith in His leading, as I see it. Sad, because one is not allowing a woman to do the Lord's work to YOUR life, through learning and teaching of God's Word Very sad, indeed.
Who convicts you to choose Christ? The altar you go to and pray over?
Or, the Spirit whom comes to SEE you at the altar to show you that your life can be more, different, His?
Who convicts the Christian they are going in the wrong direction? The pastor?
Does a pastor put a feeling and film and sheathe of guilt on the person in their church confessing to wrongs? No.
Again , the Spirit , and, He doesn't even convict, in a guilty feeling sense , He convicts in a loving sense, rebuking, chastening, scourging, but done in love
Can you see where authority comes from? Not from any 'man,' or, 'women,' but from Christ, who is the 'head of the church, Scripture tells us.
And, those who are in Christ Jesus are NEVER under condemnation because the pastor tells you so ?? No, because Christ tells us, through Paul in Rom. 8:1.
Again, a pastor, man or women, has NO authority over you, NONE ! They cannot condemn you to lake of fire, you are His and He won't let a pastor do that, who WOULD be speaking through Satan IF they did judge you in that way.
I am being careful here, but a pastor can say "If you do not believe in Christ Jesus, you are condemning yourself," and this is in Scripture.
But, those fire and brimstone preachers that preach "you are going to hell if you accept Christ" are NOT doing their calling as He called them, doing MUCH more damage than good ! They are judging, too
. God alone is our judge for where we are in life, and, will judge us at the end of our life after it ends, that is Scripture too. Why? Why do you disagree with a women teaching you in church? Is it just Scripture telling you that (you think), or, is it just a feeling that doesn't sit right with you?
The Lord leads our lives, you are to follow Him, Jess, so, if it's the latter reason for not wanting to learn from a woman pastor, then, God is just telling you to find a different church, perhaps. Pray to Him before making that choice you are about to make.
There is no cultism of men only preaching in Christ Jesus, men and women are the same , both following after Christ, both learning from each other of Christ. Men have A LOT they can learn from women, preaching/teaching included. Maybe, not as a full-time pastor (or maybe), but, certainly, guest pastors could be a woman sharing her experiences to a congregation.
Those who do not believe women can teach them are the ones that say 'All I need to know is in Scripture, I don't need them speaking to me."
This is a case by case situation but it is that way a lot of times. It is an example of no faith in His leading, as I see it. Sad, because one is not allowing a woman to do the Lord's work to YOUR life, through learning and teaching of God's Word
Very sad, indeed.yes i know.
it doesn't make it the church Jesus founded.
it makes it the internet.
with people with beliefs from A to Z.
indeed times have changed.
i don't attend ELCA.
nor would i ever.
really?
everybody on here (any forum) is a true born from above christian?
it doesn't make it the church Jesus founded.
it makes it the internet.
with people with beliefs from A to Z.
indeed times have changed.
i don't attend ELCA.
nor would i ever.
Yes, we on here all have the same faith? God gave us a measure of faith? It's not the same capacity but it is the SAME faith. To you, ohzone
everybody on here (any forum) is a true born from above christian?
I apologize for intimidating any of the male members here who have not studied the Bible in depth, especially in the original languages.
I did not realize that by presenting the truth, I might be offending the sensibilities of those sensitive to learning that their viewpoints might not be Biblically based.
I had hoped we could exchange freely here, the truth contained in God's Word. I see that badly reasoned opinions passed on by men count for much more than the actual truth of God's Word.
I did not realize that by presenting the truth, I might be offending the sensibilities of those sensitive to learning that their viewpoints might not be Biblically based.
I had hoped we could exchange freely here, the truth contained in God's Word. I see that badly reasoned opinions passed on by men count for much more than the actual truth of God's Word.