Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts of the Spirit?

[danschance]

There are false gifts of the Spirit. I can't confirm which demon or demons are behind them. satan can copy the signs and miracles of God as seen by the Egyptian magicians who countered the sign(s) of Moses and Aaron.

Keep in mind that just because one can point to false gifts does not mean all gifts are false.

 

[onlinebuddy]

oh please.
no spirit "named itself"
the kundalini thing is what most of the Toronto Blessing and other Pentecostal and Charismatic stuff is.
i found out what it was by research.

you know....

[video=youtube;-RVAu1uGkew]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RVAu1uGkew[/video]

SHOCKING FOOTAGE - False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING


do what ya want with the info.

Hey guys,
I live in India. I see this kind of mysticism ALL THE TIME! These are prevalent in Indian religion and in Eastern religions.
These manifestations have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!!

These are just games one's SUBCONSCIOUS MIND plays when one is under the influence of a certain religious teaching. At other times this is nothing but CONDITIONED BEHAVIOR. Then there are many GURUS who use MASS HYPNOTISM (which again deals with the subconscious) to create a frenzy among the people gathered.

Sadly, some Christian pastors have resorted to these tactics and are misleading people.

KUNDALINI is supposed to be some kind of suppressed energy that is released when you do certain Yogic "asanas" or "postures." This energy is supposed to be stored at the base of the spine and is "waiting to be released." Once released it is said to bring calmness, healing and even sexual potency. The release of such energy is said to always manifest itself in the form of jerking movements.

On the other hand, HYPNOTISM is designed to surpass the conscious mind, and reach the subconscious mind, and influence it to produce a certain result or behaviour. People have used hypnosis to help cure addictions. MASS HYPNOTISM can also be used to make people laugh or cry or dance, etc. Sadly, some so called Christian pastors are indulging in it to gain popularity and make money.

Many years ago, when I worked in a shipping company in India, there was this group of Yoga gurus (experts in Yoga) who approached our HR department in order to introduce a program to help the employees beat stress and perform better. They would teach the employees the art of Yoga and Ayurveda and some "good food habits" (avoiding meats and roots such as onion and garlic.) Our HR department accepted their proposal. The first batch of employees told me that during the session they were encouraged to sing and chant and dance and let loose. They were taught yogic postures and ended the session eating pure food. THE POINT I'M ARRIVING AT IS THIS: Some of my colleagues told me that they had experienced some strange things. They had begun to hallucinate and saw people rising off the floor as they performed Padmasana (a yogic posture). Needless to say, I did not attend the any of their sessions.

In conclusion, let us stick to the WORD OF GOD, and show our appreciation to God for so generously revealing Himself to us through his Word.

 

[jusasheep]

Anyone who is not filled with the Holy Spirit-needs to ask Yeshua to fill you. We have to be baptized with the Holy Spirit-not just by the hands of man. Gifts of the spirit follow.

 

[jusasheep]

He could have been led by the Holy Spirit

 

[onlinebuddy]

Anyone who is not filled with the Holy Spirit-needs to ask Yeshua to fill you. We have to be baptized with the Holy Spirit-not just by the hands of man. Gifts of the spirit follow.

Where in the Bible does it say this?

 

[onlinebuddy]

Matthew 28:19Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
There are many more scripture as well and I a;ready posted them in post # 212

There is no "baptism of the Holy Spirit" mentioned here.

This command is for EVERYONE. In other words, everyone must be baptized in this way. Jesus commissioned his disciples tO baptize "all the nations" meaning EVERYONE.

In whose name were they commanded to baptize?
In the name of the
FATHER
SON &
HOLY SPIRIT
(all three, not just the Holy Spirit)

So why do we emphasize on the Holy Spirit more than the Father and the Son?
Therefore, this baptism cannot be named as the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit."
Also, we cannot say that they were commanded to "baptize with the Holy Spirit"

I have read post #212 just now. I had missed it earlier. Will write back to you when time permits.

BTW, nice ear to ear smile in your profile pic.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Acts Chapter 19
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
.
Acts Chapter 10
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
.

Thank you damombomb, I have spent a lot of time elaborating on these verses on another thread. I hope to discuss these verses at a later time when I have some more time. Meanwhile, take care.

 

[JaumeJ]

OLB, perhaps the conversation between Nicodemus and our Lord may shed more light on the resolution of this question. Pasted below:

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water andofthe Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


Joh 3:8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[damombomb]

Dear sister,
The words "baptism of the Holy Ghost" are nowhere mentioned in the above verses. The above verse clearly says, "gift of the Holy Ghost." Due to our traditional influences, we are calling this the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost." (Agree, that even I am a product of what I have been taught)

In my understanding of the above verses, the "gift of the Holy Ghost" is received when one repents and is baptized.
At the moment, I am not going to argue whether this measure of the Holy Spirit is "indwelling" or outpoured.

This measure of the Holy Ghost is NOT GIVEN TO EVERYONE. It is given only to every born-again person (someone who is cut-to-the-heart (NIV) and realizes that they are nothing before God). The Holy Ghost is given in order to help them to begin their new journey in Christ. The outcome of our lives will determine whether this measure of the Holy Spirit will be fanned into flames (power) or dwindled. So, the working of the Holy Spirit in our lives is dependent on HOW WE LIVE OUR CHRISTIAN LIVES.

Well, there are times off course, when the Holy Spirit does supernatural things that MAY NOT DEPEND ON OUR WILL, but may depend on his purpose. God is God after all, and I will not put him in a box. However, I will not tell everyone to expect supernatural experiences.

This verse deals with an objective experience, which is the result of a change of heart, which is for the benefit of the individual concerned, and for the benefit of others. Supernatural experiences that can be interpreted subjectively may be deceptive. They may benefit the individual, but these experiences are between the individual and God. We can't tell everyone to expect something supernatural, although I would love to...only show me the same in the scriptures.

I would say it definitely is a change of heart, that is when the Lord draws and becomes so real
It is about true repentance and faith , hearing the word and being convicted.
Then the lord starts leading you as a son or daughter and becomes very real in our lives'
When it is speaking about tounges and glorifying God, it seems to mean they are saying, boy the Lord
is real and true and they magnify him, because of the relationship he forms with them
The supernatural part of it is the relationship we finally have with our maker, creator, king of kings
that makes is so unexplainable, the joy, peace, knowing your forgiven and he loves you, makes you
want to shout and tell it to the world

 

[know1]

The verb acted upon is come (in) the following, like a flood, is adverbial and modifies the verb. It does not require being set in comas by virtue of its part of speech. The punctuation stands correct as printed, and it is grammatically correct.

Thank you sir for the correction.
I try not to pervert scripture just because I like the way it sounds or whatever the reason. But, in this case, it is because I got it from other versions of the bible and some commontators who interpreted it differently.
I don't know Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek and I aint much good with sentence structure and grammar either, such as youself. And I don't mean any disrespect to one more knowledgeable than I, but the varying versions of the bible that I have listed below, and many more, say otherwise.

Isaiah 59:19
(BBE)
So they will see the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the east: for he will come like a rushing stream, forced on by a wind of the Lord.
(Brenton)
So shall they of the west fear the name of the Lord, and they that come from the rising of the sun his glorious name: for the wrath of the Lord shall come as a mighty river, it shall come with fury.
(CEV)
He will attack like a flood in a mighty windstorm. Nations in the west and the east will then honor and praise his wonderful name.
(DRB)
And they from the west, shall fear the name of the Lord: and they from the rising of the sun, his glory when he shall come as a violent stream, which the spirit of the Lord driveth on:
(ERV)
People from the west to the east will fear the LORD and respect his Glory. He will come quickly, like a fast-flowing river driven by a wind from the LORD.
(ESV)
So they shall fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun; for he will come like a rushing stream, which the wind of the LORD drives.
(GNB)
From east to west everyone will fear him and his great power. He will come like a rushing river, like a strong wind.
(GW)
The people of the west will fear the name of the LORD. Those in the east will fear his glory. He will come like a rushing stream. The wind of the LORD pushes him.

 

[know1]

not one single person today is doing any of that stuff.

I think you missed the main point I was making my friend. It's not about what you see happening to others, it's about what the word of God says.
If your faith is in what your five physical senses tell you, then you are no better than Thomas who refused to believe and was rebuked and corrected by Jesus saying, Joh_20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessedarethey that have not seen, andyethave believed.


(tongues isn't gabbering - it was known human languages)
I must say, I expected better from you ma'am. You are very knowledgeable with scripture and yet you have missed some of the simpler matters in the bible. But I believe, it is because you have rejected the truth.
1Co_14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Notice if you will, that it is not them praying but their spirit that is PRAYING. That is why their understanding is unfruitful. Peter was not praying to God during pentacost, but speaking to people of other tongues and nations. The above verse has to do with a person praying to God for whatever, where there is no need for it to be a known language. This you can do within yourself or out loud. When in a church however, if one is speaking to the body BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, then again, if it is in an unknown language where it is needed for the SPIRIT OF GOD to give the interpretation to someone so that the body of believers can understand what was said, that they may be edified.

if anyone here claims they are performing miracles like the Apostles or Jesus did i say where's the beef?
let's see the evidence.[/QUOTE]

Joh_6:30
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Mat_16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Mat_13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.


thurman scrivnar - Yahoo! Search Results

You want proof? Watch the above video.

 

[know1]

if anyone here claims they are performing miracles like the Apostles or Jesus did i say where's the beef?
let's see the evidence.

not one single person today is doing any of that stuff.

I think you missed the main point I was making my friend. It's not about what you see happening to others, it's about what the word of God says.
If your faith is in what your five physical senses tell you, then you are no better than Thomas who refused to believe and was rebuked and corrected by Jesus saying, Joh_20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessedarethey that have not seen, andyethave believed.


(tongues isn't gabbering - it was known human languages)
I must say, I expected better from you ma'am. You are very knowledgeable with scripture and yet you have missed some of the simpler matters in the bible. But I believe, it is because you have rejected the truth.
1Co_14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Notice if you will, that it is not them praying but their spirit that is PRAYING. That is why their understanding is unfruitful. Peter was not praying to God during pentacost, but speaking to people of other tongues and nations. The above verse has to do with a person praying to God for whatever, where there is no need for it to be a known language. This you can do within yourself or out loud. When in a church however, if one is speaking to the body BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, then again, if it is in an unknown language where it is needed for the SPIRIT OF GOD to give the interpretation to someone so that the body of believers can understand what was said, that they may be edified.

if anyone here claims they are performing miracles like the Apostles or Jesus did i say where's the beef?
let's see the evidence.[/QUOTE]

Joh_6:30
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Mat_16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Mat_13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Sorry, it changed after I saved it. The one above doesn't go directly to the site. Try the one below for the proof you seek.
Thurman Scrivner on Sid Roth - YouTube

 

[know1]

if anyone here claims they are performing miracles like the Apostles or Jesus did i say where's the beef?
let's see the evidence.

Is this thing going through?
not one single person today is doing any of that stuff.

I think you missed the main point I was making my friend. It's not about what you see happening to others, it's about what the word of God says.
If your faith is in what your five physical senses tell you, then you are no better than Thomas who refused to believe and was rebuked and corrected by Jesus saying, Joh_20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessedarethey that have not seen, andyethave believed.


(tongues isn't gabbering - it was known human languages)
I must say, I expected better from you ma'am. You are very knowledgeable with scripture and yet you have missed some of the simpler matters in the bible. But I believe, it is because you have rejected the truth.
1Co_14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Notice if you will, that it is not them praying but their spirit that is PRAYING. That is why their understanding is unfruitful. Peter was not praying to God during pentacost, but speaking to people of other tongues and nations. The above verse has to do with a person praying to God for whatever, where there is no need for it to be a known language. This you can do within yourself or out loud. When in a church however, if one is speaking to the body BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, then again, if it is in an unknown language where it is needed for the SPIRIT OF GOD to give the interpretation to someone so that the body of believers can understand what was said, that they may be edified.

if anyone here claims they are performing miracles like the Apostles or Jesus did i say where's the beef?
let's see the evidence.[/QUOTE]

Joh_6:30
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Mat_16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Mat_13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.


Thurman Scrivner on Sid Roth - YouTube

 

[onlinebuddy]

I would say it definitely is a change of heart, that is when the Lord draws and becomes so real
It is about true repentance and faith , hearing the word and being convicted.
Then the lord starts leading you as a son or daughter and becomes very real in our lives'
When it is speaking about tounges and glorifying God, it seems to mean they are saying, boy the Lord
is real and true and they magnify him, because of the relationship he forms with them
The supernatural part of it is the relationship we finally have with our maker, creator, king of kings
that makes is so unexplainable, the joy, peace, knowing your forgiven and he loves you, makes you
want to shout and tell it to the world

Your words are really edifying. Thank you.

I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Even the gifts of wisdom, faith, knowledge and discernment of spirits are given by the Holy Spirit. These cannot be acquired by mere intellect and without the intervention of the Holy Spirit. Most of those who say there are no gifts do not know that they have operated in the gifts at some time or the other. Teaching, encouraging and spreading the word does not happen by mere human will and without the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, prophecy does not necessarily mean predicting the future. Those who bear testimony of Christ do have the "Spirit of Prophecy."

There was a time when I sincerely sought the gift of tongues. I even attempted to speak in tongues and felt edified in my soul. However, I have seen too much of the fake thing around, and one can actually condition oneself to have a babbling session and end up feeling happy. I have had first hand experiences where people would really shake as they prayed, and fell down as hands were laid on them. However, there was no evidence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit in their personal lives. I've had first hand associations with church leaders who would peddle the word of God and yet gain great congregations.

All said and done, I would not dare discount the supernatural intervention of the Holy Spirit in the lives of those whom God holds close to Himself.

 

[JaumeJ]

The reply is only to the post and the grammar of that particular version. Your understanding by the Holy Spirit is all that is important to me also. Let me know what you know by the Holy Spirit always. God bless you and hold you close forever, amen.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Shalom OLB, my brother! Please always keep in mind, I do answer from my experience and study, but when I answer you, it is never something etched in stone, it is for your evaluation and to edify when applicable. You have honest questions, and I try very hard to answer accordingly. May Yahweh, God, bless you and hold you close forever, amen................

Jack, You say things that are different from what I have been taught in the past. You are too gentle in spirit for me to reject what you have to say. I look up to you and am willing to learn from your experiences.

 

[onlinebuddy]

The reply is only to the post and the grammar of that particular version. Your understanding by the Holy Spirit is all that is important to me also. Let me know what you know by the Holy Spirit always. God bless you and hold you close forever, amen.

Thank you Jack. I always appreciate your replies. I will study the verses about Nicodemus and get back to you. I'm a bit slow, you see

 

[zone]

Your words are really edifying. Thank you.

I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Even the gifts of wisdom, faith, knowledge and discernment of spirits are given by the Holy Spirit. These cannot be acquired by mere intellect and without the intervention of the Holy Spirit. Most of those who say there are no gifts do not know that they have operated in the gifts at some time or the other. Teaching, encouraging and spreading the word does not happen by mere human will and without the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, prophecy does not necessarily mean predicting the future. Those who bear testimony of Christ do have the "Spirit of Prophecy."

There was a time when I sincerely sought the gift of tongues. I even attempted to speak in tongues and felt edified in my soul. However, I have seen too much of the fake thing around, and one can actually condition oneself to have a babbling session and end up feeling happy. I have had first hand experiences where people would really shake as they prayed, and fell down as hands were laid on them. However, there was no evidence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit in their personal lives. I've had first hand associations with church leaders who would peddle the word of God and yet gain great congregations.

All said and done, I would not dare discount the supernatural intervention of the Holy Spirit in the lives of those whom God holds close to Himself.

good post onlinebuddy.
cessationists never discount the supernatural intervention of God the Father; God the Son or God the Holy Spirit in anyone's life...on any level, to any degree.

we are referring specifically to the foundational gifts and offices received by the First Century Church.
we merely wish people would stop inserting themselves into the Book of Acts and give God the Glory He deserves.

 

[homwardbound]

Where in the Bible does it say this?

John 3
[ The New Birth ] There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” ...
John 3:7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

For God can only be worshipped
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
The above is being born of the Spirit and dead to flesh (sin) by belief here and now
Romans 6:11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[homwardbound]

There is no "baptism of the Holy Spirit" mentioned here.

This command is for EVERYONE. In other words, everyone must be baptized in this way. Jesus commissioned his disciples tO baptize "all the nations" meaning EVERYONE.

In whose name were they commanded to baptize?
In the name of the
FATHER
SON &
HOLY SPIRIT
(all three, not just the Holy Spirit)

So why do we emphasize on the Holy Spirit more than the Father and the Son?
Therefore, this baptism cannot be named as the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit."
Also, we cannot say that they were commanded to "baptize with the Holy Spirit"

I have read post #212 just now. I had missed it earlier. Will write back to you when time permits.

BTW, nice ear to ear smile in your profile pic.

All three are one and one are all three, just each in their own form like an egg
There is shell (Christ) a white (The Holy Ghost) and a yoke (Father) break an egg and it is no longer an egg
Was not seperating them just showing the word baptism in all three the ? was raised so I posted this