How non believers may view Christian's.

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Nufan

Member
#281
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
18
#281
Lynx said:
I hate having these conversations? When did I say that?

Anybody who knows me knows I LOVE tying people up in logic knots! :D

(Actually the only reason I'm still doing this is to see how far you will go. You seem like a person who MUST get the last word, so the more I talk the harder you will try. Now I have to see just have long you will keep trying to get the last word.)

(Yeah I should probably stop now.)
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Lol. Well... I mean... I know lots of people who are wrong about lots of things. I just move on and let them be wrong if they are determined to. You asked about our opinions on a dream you had. We gave you our opinion. You thought some of us were wrong about our opinions. That should be the end of...
 
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Nufan

Member
#282
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
18
#282
Lynx said:
I hate having these conversations? When did I say that?

Anybody who knows me knows I LOVE tying people up in logic knots! :D

(Actually the only reason I'm still doing this is to see how far you will go. You seem like a person who MUST get the last word, so the more I talk the harder you will try. Now I have to see just have long you will keep trying to get the last word.)

(Yeah I should probably stop now.)
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Yeah I could tell, you're good at it.
 
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Nufan

Member
#284
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
18
#284
PennEd said:
What is your definition of a bigot?
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Dictionary definition is a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Considering Christians should be an example, and are united through the Nicene creed, this just makes this behavior even worse.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#285
Aug 13, 2014
27,289
9,336
113
#285
Nufan said:
Lol. Well... I mean... I know lots of people who are wrong about lots of things. I just move on and let them be wrong if they are determined to. You asked about our opinions on a dream you had. We gave you our opinion. You thought some of us were wrong about our opinions. That should be the end of...
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Now I am certain you are confusing me with somebody else. I have seen other people ask for opinions about dreams they have had. I have never asked for anybody's opinion here on the forum about any dream I have ever had.
 
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Nufan

Member
#286
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
18
#286
Lynx said:
Now I am certain you are confusing me with somebody else. I have seen other people ask for opinions about dreams they have had. I have never asked for anybody's opinion here on the forum about any dream I have ever had.
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That's possible. again I'm not trying to throw you under the bus or anything man.I just thought it was kind of funny.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#287
Apr 21, 2021
8,289
3,607
113
#287
You guys don't even realize when you're getting punked.
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#289
Jan 17, 2023
4,774
2,061
113
#289
Nufan said:
I just have a quick question for everyone to consider. What is it that unifies the Christian faith? What is it that Christians are doing to impact the world in a positive way. I would also include non trinitarians in this discussion, as well as what many may consider to be cult like Christianity. Such as mormonism.
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I personally wouldn't consider them Christians. Not that I couldn't fellowship with them, but I don't include them when considering Christians.

Nufan said:
I wanna know what unifies all Christians, followers, and believers in Jesus Christ, regardless of belife or religon.
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What unifies all Christians is Jesus, the belief that He is our Savior who shed His blood for our sins. I don't know what you mean by "regardless of belief or religion". That's what Christians believe.

Nufan said:
I wanna know how we all can come together to make a positive impact. I also believe that many non-believers want to know the same thing, and want to see this happening within the Christian community. For non believers to consider christianity as a valid example and somthing worthwhile to be part of. Unfortunately, it seems that most people who are Christian, are just focused on their own salvation, and what they believe is right, and coming against what they believe is wrong. I don't believe that this is really a good example of how to be a Christian, and a follower of Jesus Christ.
Could you please shed some light on this for me?
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Christians come together in all kinds of ways. School will soon be starting and many local churches will be collecting items to give out to families in need for school. In the middle of winter they will do a coat drive to make sure those in need can stay warm. In the spring they have yard sale style community get togethers so families can clothe their children. Most churches have some form of help for food drive also. On top of that there is missionary work, helping to build orphanages then sending care packages. Helping local women's shelters or pregnant mothers that need help. Soup kitchens in many cities. Then you have the Salvation Army and Franklin Grahams outreach. I live in an area that can see tornadoes devastate towns at times, churches are the first on the scene to aid people with food, clothes and other needs. That's just a few things I can think of off the top of my head.



Nufan said:
The unfortunate truth is that a lot of times I am embarrassed to call myself a Christian or to say that I'm a follower Christ, when the example is that Christians can't seem to be unified and disagree amongst themselves. We then claim that, our god is powerful that he's mighty and does great things, but pur god can't unify his people or clear up all the confusion.
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People are human, no one is perfect this side of heaven. You'll more unity inside the church than outside of it,that's for sure. No reason to be embarrassed to be a Christian.

Nufan said:
When you look at what's going on in the Christian community, typically the impression is the Christian churches are full of gossip, that they are mean and bigoted, and they are hypocritical, demanding that people do what they themselves are not able to do.
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Lol reminds me of someone we knew who said to my mother " I don't go to church, there are too many hypocrites there!" She said " Well, you're a hypocrite, and we all tolerate you!" My mother is sweet as pie but she can sting when she needs to. You go to church and focus on God, you'll find everything else will fade away. People use all kinds of excuses not to go to church forgetting they aren't perfect themselves.


Nufan said:
I think, as a Christian community, if we were to take our eyes off of ourselves for a moment, and think about how the Christian community is reflecting God, we would then be more focused on making god look good, instead of making ourselves look good. Because really, we are the example that people look to, to determine what kind of God you're trying to convince non believers to follow, and it doesn't seem like it's a God worth following, when you take a look at the example of the followers of this god.
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Well then as I said you're not looking in the right places. I admit church people aren't perfect, they never will be this side of heaven. But if you pulled every church out of especially small towns, you would feel the impact. I attend a small country church and it is amazing how many ministries, missions and individuals we support. The Salvation Army alone does so much good for the community. My mother had cancer with a lot of big, big bills. We had a special night to help her and over a thousand dollars was raised by local churches and the community. Helped cover almost every bill she had.

But all this being said, none of this is going to convince people to be a Christian. The Holy Spirit draws people to Christ. It's a heart thing, not a head thing. People don't become believers just because Christians are nice. They become believers when they understand they are a sinner in need of a Savior.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#290
Apr 22, 2013
13,581
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#290
Nufan said:
a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief,
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But this is exactly what we are.

We believe there is NO other way to Salvation than through the gospel of Jesus Christ's substitutionary death and subsequent resurrection.

EVERY other belief system will lead a person to hell.
We cannot equivocate on that fundamental truth.

Do we squabble? Yup

Should we extol the virtues of Jesus? Yup


But aside from being His children, we remain in these fallen human bodies that we unfortunately yield too often to.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#291
Jul 3, 2015
60,030
29,401
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#291
Nufan said:
I never realized that I use that word that many times, I would agree it's most likely that I use the word multiple ttimes in one post. In no way am I supporting Roman Catholicism. I bring them up mainly because that word ties to the creed. Also because they were the first christian institution and have some old practices and concepts I believe are essential for ones faith that were lost in protestantism. I understand that you're upset with me and I'm probably your enemy. So really I'm surprised you didn't find worse stuff than that. I have much worse stuff out there. I'll be the first to admit it.
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You should stop making assumptions about me.
 
SonJudgment

SonJudgment

Well-known member
#292
Jun 25, 2024
685
359
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#292
The Roman Catholics and the Orthodox as well as the mainstream Protestant denominations all also contain the 3 essential beliefs of the role of Jesus (Apostle's Creed), the identity of God and nature of the trinity (Athanasian Creed), and belief that the Bible is a divinely inspired document. As such this is what unifies them into one whole religion of Christianity. The differences they have is not really on these three essential beliefs, but are on lesser issues mostly about human authority. The reason the Great Schism occured was about a doctrine called Papal Primacy which has to do with the authority of the Pope (or the bishop of Rome at that time). Likewise the mainstream Protestant groups diverged from the Roman Catholics on more secular issues such as the authority of the king or the matter of indulgences during the Reformation period. The lesser issues, typically about human authority or secular politics of a particular historical period is what gives the denominations their differences, but yet because they all contain the 3 essential beliefs of Christianity they are united in sharing the same overall religion of Christianity and by these 3 beliefs they can be distinguished from a wholly different religion which rejects all 3 beliefs, or from a heretical sect which only would contain 1 or 2 of the beliefs while radically denying the others.
 
FRB72

FRB72

Active member
#293
Sep 27, 2023
122
59
28
England
#293
Magenta said:
I have no idea what you are talking about with branding positions and communists. When someone
puts Catholic and not catholic, that makes it a proper noun. This is simple enough to understand.
The word catholic as a proper noun refers to Catholicism and not the word meaning universal.
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OK, to illustrate, North Korea, officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Whilst the country chooses to include the word “democratic” in the way it presents to the world, those who are politically aware know otherwise.

Likewise the descriptive “Catholic” as universal applies to an individual denomination that is regarded by most Bible-believing Christians as heterodox and therefore not universal.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#294
Jul 3, 2015
60,030
29,401
113
#294
FRB72 said:
OK, to illustrate, North Korea, officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Whilst the country chooses to include the word “democratic” in the way
it presents to the world, those who are politically aware know otherwise.

Likewise the descriptive “Catholic” as universal applies to an individual denomination that
is regarded by most Bible-believing Christians as heterodox and therefore not universal.
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Korea can call itself what it wants... it has no bearing on what happens when the word
"catholic" (meaning universal) is capitalized, which effectively makes it a proper noun
referring to Roman Catholicism (except of course as the first word of a sentence). OP
has realized their mistake...
 
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Nufan

Member
#295
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
18
#295
PennEd said:
But this is exactly what we are.

We believe there is NO other way to Salvation than through the gospel of Jesus Christ's substitutionary death and subsequent resurrection.

EVERY other belief system will lead a person to hell.
We cannot equivocate on that fundamental truth.

Do we squabble? Yup

Should we extol the virtues of Jesus? Yup


But aside from being His children, we remain in these fallen human bodies that we unfortunately yield too often to.
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I'm not talking about other groups that are not believers. I'm talking about the groups that agree on the nicene creed and are trinitarian christians. Christians are bigots towards one another. Also, there's no mention in the Bible about there being an eternal damnation and punishment. The word used for eternal also means an age. That means for a period of time, and this wasn't a concept and understanding of the Jewish people at that time, so if Jesus is trying to communicate that punishment is eternal then I don't know why he didn't go into detail about explaining what he meant. What the jewish people at the time believe was that you would have an entire year to get right with god, to repent. The thing is is that the Jews didn't know what would happen to the soul if it doesn't repent, so they have 3 different theories, that either they would be lost in outer darkness and would eventually die, because the soul cannot live without the body, or that you would reincarnate and try again, or you would go to the trash heap and die. The trash heap is the one jeasus preached about. So the only concepts that they had according to Jesus at that time period was the place of the dead, the trash heap and new Jerusalem. So those who do get right with God they would be restored with a new body, a heavenly body. They would then inherit new Jerusalem, which is the restored garden of eden in which they will then dwell in and have eternal life. They will dwell in paradise and have communion and relationship with God They didn't even believe that you would go to heaven. There was also no concept of hell. The second death is in store for those who reject god. Hell and eternal punishment are all concepts and ideas that were imposed by the establishment which promote views and behavior rooted in fear and urgency, which are not fruits of God. Then you look at the Eastern orthodox. They don't believe in a eternal hell as a place of torment. Those who reject god its an unknown to them just as it is for the jews. They believe that Jesus will go to the place of the dead which is known as hell. Jesus decended into hell but its not a place of torment its a place of waiting and rest. Jesus will share the gospel so he can lead them out into salvation. Moses Elijah Aberham were all lead out of this place by Jesus. He set the captives free. Eastern orthodox also believe that God is present in all places, such as in the Old Testament. It says that even in hell God is there. Those who don't want a relationship with God and hate God, for them to be in God's presence and experience his love is a hell. There is no escaping God because he is everywhere and they will wander about in torment seeking rest and will find none.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#296
Jul 7, 2022
10,271
4,315
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#296
Nufan said:
I'm not talking about other groups that are not believers. I'm talking about the groups that agree on the nicene creed and are trinitarian christians. Christians are bigots towards one another. Also, there's no mention in the Bible about there being an eternal damnation and punishment. The word used for eternal also means an age. That means for a period of time, and this wasn't a concept and understanding of the Jewish people at that time, so if Jesus is trying to communicate that punishment is eternal then I don't know why he didn't go into detail about explaining what he meant. What the jewish people at the time believe was that you would have an entire year to get right with god, to repent. The thing is is that the Jews didn't know what would happen to the soul if it doesn't repent, so they have 3 different theories, that either they would be lost in outer darkness and would eventually die, because the soul cannot live without the body, or that you would reincarnate and try again, or you would go to the trash heap and die. The trash heap is the one jeasus preached about. So the only concepts that they had according to Jesus at that time period was the place of the dead, the trash heap and new Jerusalem. So those who do get right with God they would be restored with a new body, a heavenly body. They would then inherit new Jerusalem, which is the restored garden of eden in which they will then dwell in and have eternal life. They will dwell in paradise and have communion and relationship with God They didn't even believe that you would go to heaven. There was also no concept of hell. The second death is in store for those who reject god. Hell and eternal punishment are all concepts and ideas that were imposed by the establishment which promote views and behavior rooted in fear and urgency, which are not fruits of God. Then you look at the Eastern orthodox. They don't believe in a eternal hell as a place of torment. Those who reject god its an unknown to them just as it is for the jews. They believe that Jesus will go to the place of the dead which is known as hell. Jesus decended into hell but its not a place of torment its a place of waiting and rest. Jesus will share the gospel so he can lead them out into salvation. Moses Elijah Aberham were all lead out of this place by Jesus. He set the captives free. Eastern orthodox also believe that God is present in all places, such as in the Old Testament. It says that even in hell God is there. Those who don't want a relationship with God and hate God, for them to be in God's presence and experience his love is a hell. There is no escaping God because he is everywhere and they will wander about in torment seeking rest and will find none.
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Here's a Bible study on Hell.
 
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Nufan

Member
#297
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
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#297
HealthAndHappiness said:
Here's a Bible study on Hell.
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Yes, their concept of hell was much different than our concept of hell now. There was also no concept of heaven. Hell is the place of the dead and we already know that's a place of waiting and rest. The trash heap is what Jesus was talking about.And that's the place where god destroys bolth the body and soul also known as the second death spoken of in revelation. And the trash heap is an eternal place of torment and suffering, but there is no mention of the soul going through eternal torment. The word used for eternal is aeon. To be cut off from God is also be cut off from eternal life.
 
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Nufan

Member
#298
Oct 10, 2019
251
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#298
HealthAndHappiness said:
Here's a Bible study on Hell.
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I should also point out their view of haven is new Jerusalem. Two completely different concepts from today. Greek orthodox also have a different view of heaven. They believe heaven is where god is but not necessarily a place. Again haven and hell as we know it are unknowns.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#299
Jul 7, 2022
10,271
4,315
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#299
Nufan said:
Yes, their concept of hell was much different than our concept of hell now. There was also no concept of heaven. Hell is the place of the dead and we already know that's a place of waiting and rest. The trash heap is what Jesus was talking about.And that's the place where god destroys bolth the body and soul also known as the second death spoken of in revelation. And the trash heap is an eternal place of torment and suffering, but there is no mention of the soul going through eternal torment. The word used for eternal is aeon. To be cut off from God is also be cut off from eternal life.
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"he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. "
Revelation 14
 
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Nufan

Member
#300
Oct 10, 2019
251
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#300
HealthAndHappiness said:
Here's a Bible study on Hell.
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The original Greek word aionios is an adjective of the noun aion which means 'age'. 'Aion Is where we get the word 'eon' or 'age'. 'Aionios should always be translated 'Age-abiding or 'age lasting' or 'of the ages'. It should NEVER have been translated 'eternal'!
 
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