Question about responsibillities

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
780
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#1
Let's say I had a child; and when that child was able to understand I told him:

"Make yourself at home, this place is your place, just stay out of the cookie jar".

Then one day I walk into the kitchen and catch the kid elbow deep in the cookie jar.

And my response is, "screw this I'm outta here" and I abandon the child.

What would you suppose would be a logical response to my action?
 

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
5,358
528
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Arizona
#2
Well it really depends on the severity of said actual action. At first my response is “they are a child, they do not know how deeply their actions affect others.”

If it’s an actual like adult child and they do something awful and someone kicks them out, I’ve never had to deal with that so I’m not sure.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,177
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#3
Let's say I had a child; and when that child was able to understand I told him:

"Make yourself at home, this place is your place, just stay out of the cookie jar".

Then one day I walk into the kitchen and catch the kid elbow deep in the cookie jar.

And my response is, "screw this I'm outta here" and I abandon the child.

What would you suppose would be a logical response to my action?
Hi RickyZ, a "logical response" by whom exactly :unsure:

As a for instance, abandonment is a Federal crime, but the States are normally involved as well, and they often impose heavier penalties. Abandoning a child can carry up to a 5 year prison sentence + a $125,000 fine in some States, unless harm comes to the child as a result of being abandoned, of course, which could result in a more severe punishment.

On the other hand, a similar scenario was played out a few millennia ago in the Garden of God, but rather than abandoning our progenitors (and us, their progeny, through them), God immediately made plans to redeem us, PTL, all the while knowing that saving us would result in His innocent Son's brutal death on the Cross.

~Deut
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
780
113
#4
Well it really depends on the severity of said actual action. At first my response is “they are a child, they do not know how deeply their actions affect others.”

If it’s an actual like adult child and they do something awful and someone kicks them out, I’ve never had to deal with that so I’m not sure.
Good to see you again!
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
780
113
#5
Hi RickyZ, a "logical response" by whom exactly :unsure:

As a for instance, abandonment is a Federal crime, but the States are normally involved as well, and they often impose heavier penalties. Abandoning a child can carry up to a 5 year prison sentence + a $125,000 fine in some States, unless harm comes to the child as a result of being abandoned, of course, which could result in a more severe punishment.

On the other hand, a similar scenario was played out a few millennia ago in the Garden of God, but rather than abandoning our progenitors (and us, their progeny, through them), God immediately made plans to redeem us, PTL, all the while knowing that saving us would result in His innocent Son's brutal death on the Cross.

~Deut
Narrow is the path to God ... wide is that to destruction. I'm curious, of aaall the people in the world since Adam, what percentage of them do you think make it into 'heaven'?
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
13,461
1,248
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#6
Narrow is the path to God ... wide is that to destruction. I'm curious, of aaall the people in the world since Adam, what percentage of them do you think make it into 'heaven'?
That's an answer we won't know until we get there. However, God's plan included salvation to all the problem with free will is that not all who need the salvation God offered will take it and choose it. So all could be saved but not all will choose to be saved.

I have heard it said we will be surprised by who makes it to heaven people you thought would never be there are and those you thought would be there aren't.... go figure. Will I be the one wondering? Or will someone else wonder where I am? Makes one think that they should learn to walk humbly with our God to make sure our hearts and minds are in the right place to walk daily with God and walk right into heaven as Enoch did.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,177
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#7
Narrow is the path to God ... wide is that to destruction. I'm curious, of aaall the people in the world since Adam, what percentage of them do you think make it into 'heaven'?
Hi again RickyZ, I agree with @JesusLives, that's not something that we can know right now. I think Jesus sums all of this up nicely for us with two words from the following verse.

John 3
16 God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

~Deut
 

Lynx

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2014
14,712
2,544
113
#8
"I've got a witness not too stable
It wouldn't get me very far
I've got one hand on the table
One in the cookie jar..."
- Susan Ashton "Down On My Knees"
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
780
113
#9
That's an answer we won't know until we get there. However, God's plan included salvation to all the problem with free will is that not all who need the salvation God offered will take it and choose it. So all could be saved but not all will choose to be saved.

I have heard it said we will be surprised by who makes it to heaven people you thought would never be there are and those you thought would be there aren't.... go figure. Will I be the one wondering? Or will someone else wonder where I am? Makes one think that they should learn to walk humbly with our God to make sure our hearts and minds are in the right place to walk daily with God and walk right into heaven as Enoch did.
From what I understand, once we reach the New Earth we won't remember anything about this one. I assume that includes the people from this earth that don't make it to the next. But, that would imply we do have remembrance of them during the millennium. And yes - salvation is/has been available to everyone. But again, how many of total sum of humanity actually accept it? It was universally rejected by the time of Noah, and it's being universally rejected again as we get close to D-Day. Honestly I guess 10%, to use how much God says He want's back out of this mess. But, just a guess, never seen a figure in the Bible, tho it does repeatedly say it will be a small group.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,177
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#10
From what I understand, once we reach the New Earth we won't remember anything about this one. I assume that includes the people from this earth that don't make it to the next. But, that would imply we do have remembrance of them during the millennium. And yes - salvation is/has been available to everyone. But again, how many of total sum of humanity actually accept it? It was universally rejected by the time of Noah, and it's being universally rejected again as we get close to D-Day. Honestly I guess 10%, to use how much God says He want's back out of this mess. But, just a guess, never seen a figure in the Bible, tho it does repeatedly say it will be a small group.
Hi again RickyZ, I agree about the likelihood of a small group passing through the Pearly Gates.

As for not remembering ~anything~ about this life when we reach the New Earth however, if we don't remember any of it, what was the purpose of this life? What will we think when we are handed rewards for our faithful service to God during this life, for instance (or when we get no rewards because we weren't very faithful when we should have been .. and while we watch others who were get their rewards)?

What reason would we have to eternally praise, honor and be grateful to God in the age to come if we don't remember what He did for us in this one?

How will we know that we are loved, and how deeply and how important His love for us is, if we have no clue as to how His love for us was demonstrated (on the Cross)?

Why would we cast our crowns at His feet singing, "worthy is the Lamb who was slain", if we don't remember any of it?

I could go on, and I know what Isaiah 65:17 says, but I have to wonder, does forgetting the "former things" necessarily mean forgetting it all, or could it just be a mental cleansing of certain things, like the troubles of this life that the previous verse (v16) refers to :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
780
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#11
Hi again RickyZ, I agree about the likelihood of a small group passing through the Pearly Gates.

As for not remembering ~anything~ about this life when we reach the New Earth however, if we don't remember any of it, what was the purpose of this life? What will we think when we are handed rewards for our faithful service to God during this life, for instance (or when we get no rewards because we weren't very faithful when we should have been .. and while we watch others who were get their rewards)?

What reason would we have to eternally praise, honor and be grateful to God in the age to come if we don't remember what He did for us in this one?

How will we know that we are loved, and how deeply and how important His love for us is, if we have no clue as to how His love for us was demonstrated (on the Cross)?

Why would we cast our crowns at His feet singing, "worthy is the Lamb who was slain", if we don't remember any of it?

I could go on, and I know what Isaiah 65:17 says, but I have to wonder, does forgetting the "former things" necessarily mean forgetting it all, or could it just be a mental cleansing of certain things, like the troubles of this life that the previous verse (v16) refers to :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
So, if we assume the ratio God decreed, only 10 percent (indeed a small portion) of humanity will be saved. You don't see that as abandonment of the greater numbers?

And if it says the former things will not be remembered, why would that not include those former humans? Will we really spend eternity on the New Earth mourning those who are not there?
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,177
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#12
So, if we assume the ratio God decreed, only 10 percent (indeed a small portion) of humanity will be saved. You don't see that as abandonment of the greater numbers? And if it says the former things will not be remembered, why would that not include those former humans? Will we really spend eternity on the New Earth mourning those who are not there?
Hi RickyZ, you continue to question things that we cannot know (on this side of the grave), while skipping over the things that God revealed to us, the things that are ours to know .. cf Deuteronomy 29:29. For instance, we know that God has promised us that there will be no more tears or sadness among His people in the age to come (and that we will recognize each other too :)). We also know that we will recognize Jesus and worship Him for who He is and for what He did for us while He lived among us. I'm not sure how any of this will be possible, but He has given us no reason to think that He is being anything but honest with us, has He?

As far as all of God's enemies are concerned .. Romans 5:9-10, IOW, all of those who hate Him and want nothing to do with Him personally (though all are interested in the benefits and blessings that He has to offer them, of course), how can God's choice to give them what they want be considered, "abandonment" :unsure: Quite frankly, He didn't abandon them, they walked away from/abandoned Him.

~Deut
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
780
113
#13
Hi RickyZ, you continue to question things that we cannot know (on this side of the grave), while skipping over the things that God revealed to us, the things that are ours to know .. cf Deuteronomy 29:29. For instance, we know that God has promised us that there will be no more tears or sadness among His people in the age to come (and that we will recognize each other too :)). We also know that we will recognize Jesus and worship Him for who He is and for what He did for us while He lived among us. I'm not sure how any of this will be possible, but He has given us no reason to think that He is being anything but honest with us, has He?

As far as all of God's enemies are concerned .. Romans 5:9-10, IOW, all of those who hate Him and want nothing to do with Him personally (though all are interested in the benefits and blessings that He has to offer them, of course), how can God's choice to give them what they want be considered, "abandonment" :unsure: Quite frankly, He didn't abandon them, they walked away from/abandoned Him.

~Deut
Go back to the beginning. God walked away when He caught Adam with his hand in the cookie jar. He then made a way to reunite, and what you describe is people walking away from that.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,177
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#14
Go back to the beginning. God walked away when He caught Adam with his hand in the cookie jar. He then made a way to reunite, and what you describe is people walking away from that.
Not following you very well here. The Bible tells us that God began the scarlet thread of our redemption before our first parents left the Garden of Eden .. Genesis 3:21, 24, so I'm not sure why (or when) you believe that He walked away from them (or from us) :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
 

Lynx

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2014
14,712
2,544
113
#15
Go back to the beginning. God walked away when He caught Adam with his hand in the cookie jar. He then made a way to reunite, and what you describe is people walking away from that.
I thought that's where the OP was headed.

Who walked away? God didn't leave. He gave Adam and Eve a perfect world, then they broke it. So God gave them clothing and detailed instructions on how to survive in the world that was now less than perfect. And God stayed on the scene right along - if not, who was it that remonstrated with Cain?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,810
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#16
So, if we assume the ratio God decreed, only 10 percent (indeed a small portion) of humanity will be saved. You don't see that as abandonment of the greater numbers?

And if it says the former things will not be remembered, why would that not include those former humans? Will we really spend eternity on the New Earth mourning those who are not there?
Okay, pertaining to your second paragraph: Look again at the scripture that says the former life will not be remembered. Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth (NHNE): and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Now read on down in verse 20: "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." This is not addressing us in the millennium, as this is flesh and blood people still dying. The NHNE is a picture of the Great White Throne Judgment (GWTJ).

Quite the contrary we will remember the former life just as Deut said. 1 Cor. 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Pertaining to your first paragraph: It does, indeed, look like God has predicted His losing the overall war of saving souls. But that is just this dispensation. God is not done with those He has not called in this life. Remember the second resurrection: everyone will be resurrected and dealt with at that time. That is also handled during the GWTJ. But that is another story. :)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,626
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Florida
#17
Narrow is the path to God ... wide is that to destruction. I'm curious, of aaall the people in the world since Adam, what percentage of them do you think make it into 'heaven'?
100%.
 
N

Notes4God

Guest
#18
Let's say I had a child; and when that child was able to understand I told him:

"Make yourself at home, this place is your place, just stay out of the cookie jar".

Then one day I walk into the kitchen and catch the kid elbow deep in the cookie jar.

And my response is, "screw this I'm outta here" and I abandon the child.

What would you suppose would be a logical response to my action?
To clearly identify your "action" as a crime.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,713
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#19
Let's say I had a child; and when that child was able to understand I told him:

"Make yourself at home, this place is your place, just stay out of the cookie jar".

Then one day I walk into the kitchen and catch the kid elbow deep in the cookie jar.

And my response is, "screw this I'm outta here" and I abandon the child.

What would you suppose would be a logical response to my action?
Thats weird, why would you do that. Also the child would probably just eat the cookies. And you didnt even tell them why they should stay out of the cookie jar.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,626
7,046
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Florida
#20
Let's say I had a child; and when that child was able to understand I told him:

"Make yourself at home, this place is your place, just stay out of the cookie jar".

Then one day I walk into the kitchen and catch the kid elbow deep in the cookie jar.

And my response is, "screw this I'm outta here" and I abandon the child.

What would you suppose would be a logical response to my action?
Depends on the kind of cookie the kid was attempting to take. Chocolate chip, yeah, the kid is probably gone, oatmeal raison, probably give him another chance and a glass of cold milk.