The Sinless Human

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NetChaplain

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
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#1
The Lord Jesus was fully human physically but not spiritually, that is, He had the nature of our body but not the nature of our soul (the soul being the reasoning entity of our spirit). The nature of a human soul is sinful, but the nature of Christ’s soul was sinless! Thus only Christians have two natures in their soul (old and new man)! This “new man” or new nature in those reborn is something “created in righteousness and true holiness,” and “after the image of Him that created him (it)” (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10). Man was created in God’s “likeness,” but the Son of God was incarnated after the “likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom 8:3 – “He sent His own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have” -NLT).

The word “likeness” here is in the sense of similarity, in appearance only, but not as identically the same. One (Jesus) taking on a body has the appearance of having the sinful nature, but it is common knowledge of course that the Lord Jesus did not partake of the sinful nature (“old man”) of a human. He partook of the nature of a human body (if its “infirmities” - Heb 4:15 - can be considered a nature) but not the nature of a human soul, which is sinful. After all, does not all spirit beings have their own soul, as Jesus has His own Soul.

There may be some who may think that human sin coexisted in Christ with His deity, but this is incorrect! During the crucifixion at His death, the guilt of all believers sin was “laid on Him” (Isa 53:6), but never in Him, i.e. He was made out to be sin, not actually be sin but imputatively; “to be the offering for our sin” (2Co 5:21 NLT). Not to stray too far from the subject matter, there are some (e.g. J MacArthur, R C Sproul, etc.) who believe that Christ was peccable and was capable of sinning, but this conflicts with the fact that “God cannot be tempted with evil” (Jam 1:13). Also, to sin you must have a sin nature!

The best I can say is that He did not need to partake of the nature of man’s soul to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities”; nor could He, because the sin sacrifice required being “spotless.” Jesus was “tempted of the devil,” but He was not enticed within Himself to do evil, as a man would, He being without a sin nature.

Here (Rom 8:3) the word “flesh” is in relation to the nature of man’s spirit, which is sinful, and not in the sense of the physical body because a thing or object cannot be considered sinful, it being without spirit and soul. Things can be used sinfully but never become sinful! Therefore, the proper interpretation here for “flesh” is in reference to the nature of man’s spirit and not the body of man’s spirit. ‘Sarx’; Strong’s definition IV: “the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God.”
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#3
‘Sarx’; Strong’s definition IV: “the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God.”
Sarx is referencing the Sinful Nature, not the Human Nature. When we look up the definition of Human Nature, we find that it denotes Servanthood. The Human Nature serves . . . that's it. That is why Adam and Eve fell victim to the instruction of the Devil . . . they did not possess the Mind of Satan, nor the Mind of Christ. Adam and Eve were alone in their Human Nature.

There are three basic Natures within the Bible:

1. Human Nature
2. Sinful Nature
3. Divine Nature

The Human Nature serves the Sinful Nature, but the Circumcision of Christ cuts out and removes that Old Nature and replaces it with a New Nature, which is the Divine Nature. This understanding is critical if we are to properly interpret God's Holy Word.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

2 Peter 1:4 KJV - "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
 

Mark47Oz

Active member
Jun 4, 2021
233
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28
#4
My branch of Jesus teaches that every human is born with the stain of the 'original sin' on their heads. The original sin, being that of Eve in the garden of Eden.

Jesus was born without original sin because he was only half human. If you read the gospels you'll see that when Mary, his mother agreed to have the baby that the holy spirit 'overshadowed' her. Jesus' Dad is the holy spirit.

This makes Mary a completely unique human being in all of history and it makes her son half human, half God.

I've always wondered what Jesus' DNA would look like if it were sampled. Would he have a Y chromosome? If he did, it would be from God himself as a mother gives the X chromosome in the XY male marker.

Getting REALLY off topic now, but multiple tests have been conducted on samples of things like hosts that appear to be human flesh and blood / tears from weeping statues. Instead of coming back as fake or with multiple blood / DNA types as one would expect if they were fake, a stunning correlation has taken place and 5 key indicators have formed a highly unexpected pattern.

1) The samples are all human
2) The blood type is AB
3) The tissue in Eucharist samples is heart tissue
4) The tissue appears to be alive, which confounds scientists
5) DNA tests always come back inconclusive
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,476
1,857
113
#5
You know lately I have been feeling like perhaps I was not enough that perhaps all my sin all my weakness everyflaw had lead me away from God, my heart adores him and craves to know and have him more than air but I am always so afraid of my worth.

So a couple days ago I was trying to go to work but my body was so heavy I wasn't tired or sleepy but it was really heavy and my boss let me have the day off, so I go into my bed and suddenly I was overcome but this crisp clean feeling. You know how it feels to come out of a great shower feeling cool clean and fresh? it was like that but on a level I have never known, my eyes were closed and in my minds eye my room was suddenly changed my t.v. my computer my clothes everything was gone and replaced with just utter cleanliness.

I adored this clean feeling so much I did something I have never done I gave an offering to Christ I offered him my entire faith every drop of trust in me I gave him my entire soul and being to have this feeling permanently. We say to give him our faith and our trust but in this experience I realized that we think we do this but a true offering is something else completely but he knew my heart and placed in me a mark on soul and or rather showed me a mark and apparently I already was and had this cleanliness I just never knew it.

It was the mark in my soul the passion for him on my heart the written word mine on my forehead that made me clean not my flaws or mistakes or sinlessness the experience eventually faded but I will never forget it and I hope that soon I can know this feeling again. Don't try to be sinless because you already are, don't try to be perfect because he says you already are you just have to accept it.
 

Mark47Oz

Active member
Jun 4, 2021
233
86
28
#6
. Don't try to be sinless because you already are, don't try to be perfect because he says you already are you just have to accept it.
To be human is to sin. To be saved is to be forgiven of those sins.

The bit that many (including myself ( struggle with is when you're baptised everything you've done you to that point in your life is forgiven. You're washed clean and Christ gives you the shining white robes of salvation.

Life is great and everything is new for a while. Then we commit some form of sin and we get a mark on our robes. Then we sin again and it gets another mark. We keep on going and before we know it our robes are all stained and filthy.

BUT

God has the best washing machine and detergent ever! 😃

It's called repentance. All you have to do is tell God you're sorry and say it with a true heart. Then he takes those dirty old robes and cleanses them with his forgiveness and you're back looking good as new again!

I personally don't quite subscribe to the idea of being sinless, but I 100% believe in God's limitless mercy and forgiveness.
 

unabashedlly

Junior Member
Mar 15, 2018
24
8
3
#7
We are sinless in God's eyes because of what Jesus did. He sees us, who truly believe in Jesus to have the righteousness of Jesus, Even Paul said that when he sinned it was his sin nature, not his real true self . As a believer, one's real self is hidden in Christ.
In Him we live and move and have our being. Yes we sin but that is our flesh that sins. This could sound confusing but just believe the Word of God and that settles it.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
2,155
854
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#8
We are sinless in God's eyes because of what Jesus did. He sees us, who truly believe in Jesus to have the righteousness of Jesus, Even Paul said that when he sinned it was his sin nature, not his real true self . As a believer, one's real self is hidden in Christ. In Him we live and move and have our being. Yes we sin but that is our flesh that sins. This could sound confusing but just believe the Word of God and that settles it.
I like what you wrote. If you could add to these words the idea that Jesus, the Nazarene (that is important), sets apart His Children from the Law. This is why Paul said, "Where there is no Law, there can be no transgression," for Jesus sets us apart from any worldly Laws, and even the Moral Law. It is when a person becomes indwelt by the Spirit that they live by the last "stage" of Laws, which are the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life. These Laws cause us to be a specific way . . . and to change.

Romans 4:14-15 NIV - "For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression."

Romans 8:1-2 NIV - "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death."

Do you see how this idea also helps us to realize how we are considered to be Perfect so as to allow the Holy Spirit to indwell our body? If a body is not considered Pure and Holy, the Holy Spirit will not indwell him or her. Satan and the Holy Spirit do not, and will never, share the same body at the same time. Impossible, for in God there is no sin.

Cheers!
 

NetChaplain

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
357
125
43
#9
When Scripture writes that "God saw that it was good" it designs the intention that He foreknew He would use all for good that He created, like the Tree of good and evil, Satan and man, hell and the lake of fire. He knew all would be use for the good of His plan and pleasure. It's also a common mistake in the belief that Adam and Eve did not possess the old man (sin nature) until they partook of the Tree, but this merely manifested that they did have the sin nature prior to the temptation. They expressed possesing "all that is in the world" (1Jo 2:16) in Gen 3:6 prior to partaking of the Tree: "saw that the tree was good for food" (which God said it was in 1:12 but with man it is "lust of the flesh" or great hunger for food or anything we desire in excess relating only to this life), "was pleasant to the eyes" (same thing concerning great desire for all that is appealing to see), "the pride of life" (which Gill comments that "which above all was the most engaging, and was the most prevailing motive to influence her to eat of it, an eager desire of more wisdom and knowledge; though there was nothing she could see in the tree, and the fruit of it, which promised this; only she perceived in her mind, by the discourse she had with the serpent, and by what he had told her, and she believed, that this would be the consequence of eating this fruit, which was very desirable, and she concluded within herself that so it would be."

A human consists of a spirit, body, soul and nature. The only "likeness" that was of Christ's incarnation or humanity was His body and its "infirmities" which He endured from it. His spirit being has always existed, but His body, like ours was incarnated; and His soul and nature could ever only be Divine. Concerning that Christ "was in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb 4:15), I like how Gill's comment addresses this in Heb 2:18:

"For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted",.... "By Satan, at his entrance on his public ministry, and a little before his death; which was done, not by stirring up sin in him, for he had none, nor by putting any into him, which could not be done, nor could Satan get any advantage over him; he solicited him one thing and another, but in vain; though these temptations were very troublesome, and disagreeable, and abhorrent to the pure and holy nature of Christ, and so must be reckoned among his sufferings, or things by which he suffered: and as afflictions are sometimes called temptations, in this sense also Christ suffered, being tempted, with outward poverty and meanness, with slight and neglect from his own relations, and with a general contempt and reproach among men: he was often tempted by the Jews with ensnaring questions; he was deserted by his followers, by his own disciples, yea, by his God and Father; all which were great trials to him, and must be accounted as sufferings: and he also endured great pains of body, and anguish of mind, and at last death itself."

"A body hast Thou prepared Me," so that God could "condemn sin in the flesh (sin in the nature, i.e. not the body which has no sin within itself); for He did not desire "burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin" (Heb 10:6).
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
2,155
854
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#12
I would say they sinned to show they had a sin nature.
These chat rooms are incredible. There is an unending of interpretations of His Holy Word . . . it boggles my mind that virtually no one agrees on the Story and Purpose of the Bible. In fact, I cannot stand the fact that we, as a group, do not agree. All that we seem to do is just try to convince each other of wild assertions instead of making an actual difference in this world. Seems like such a waste of time.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
2,155
854
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#13
I'm not sure if it is even possible to sin unless you do indeed have a sin nature.
Study the teachings of Paul. He taught that after the Sin Nature is cut out and removed, there will be residual sin. I mean, do we not understand what it means to be set apart from the Law . . . the Laws of this world? Understanding the Law lends to understanding the Bible as a whole. Best wishes.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,233
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#14
It is a good pracitce in faith to simply believe what we cannot understand yet, and never give a personal interpretation os any given teaching.

As long as we do what ea re given to be able in puttting into practice the teachings of our Lord's Gospel, we are on the Way.

It is useless to argue over what we are able to believe until the subjects has been enlightened for us by the Holy Spirit.
 

NetChaplain

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
357
125
43
#19
I think they got that sin nature when they chose to sin
Eve manifested man's sin nature via her desire to be wise and "be as gods" (Gen 3:5, 6). Some might think it wasn't until they sinned that the sin nature was present, but sinful desire was present before partaking of the Tree.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
2,155
854
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#20
Eve manifested man's sin nature via her desire to be wise and "be as gods" (Gen 3:5, 6). Some might think it wasn't until they sinned that the sin nature was present, but sinful desire was present before partaking of the Tree.
So Adam and Eve were Cursed before they were Cursed? NC . . . you're completely missing the point and Holy Purpose of the Bible. I'm amazed.